Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.

Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
to be available with threads.)

TIA

Jane

jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
> 
> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
> to be available with threads.)
> 
That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.

I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and 
resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested a 
file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.

I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.

No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an 
ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and 
trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN connection 
so that's why it's slow...

BrritSki wrote:
> jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
>> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
>> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
>> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
>> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
>> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>>
>> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
>> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
>> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
>> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
>> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
>> to be available with threads.)
>>
> That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
> 
> I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and 
> resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested a 
> file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
> 
> I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
> 
> No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an 
> ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and 
> trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN connection 
> so that's why it's slow...

Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in. 
However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course. 
If Sebastian or anyone else can tell me the file-deleting trick which 
might get round this, I'd be very grateful.

Incidentally, I've never been able to get message sync to work. 
Whatever I did, I could never read the messages offline.  Luckily I now 
mostly (except for some of last week) have broadband so don't worry 
about it.

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

On 15 Jun, 17:19, Jane Vernon  wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
> > j...@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
> >> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
> >> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
> >> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
> >> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
> >> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>
> >> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
> >> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
> >> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
> >> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
> >> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
> >> to be available with threads.)
>
> > That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
>
> > I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and
> > resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested a
> > file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
>
> > I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
>
> > No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an
> > ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and
> > trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN connection
> > so that's why it's slow...
>
> Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in.
> However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course.
> If Sebastian or anyone else can tell me the file-deleting trick which
> might get round this, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Incidentally, I've never been able to get message sync to work.
> Whatever I did, I could never read the messages offline.  Luckily I now
> mostly (except for some of last week) have broadband so don't worry
> about it.
>

Sorry to follow up self.  But after I had gone through umra opening
threads and reading the messages I had not read yet (which Thunderbird
had in fact marked with a little sun sign) I went to look at mail.
When I tried returning to umra, Thunderbird froze again :((((  I had
unsubscribed, closed Thunderbird, rebooted computer, and resubscribed
to umra.  Did I miss something out?  Or, any other suggestions?

Jane
Groping through Google

Jane Vernon wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
>> jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
>>> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
>>> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
>>> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
>>> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
>>> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>>>
>>> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
>>> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
>>> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
>>> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
>>> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
>>> to be available with threads.)
>>>
>> That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
>>
>> I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and 
>> resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested 
>> a file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
>>
>> I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
>>
>> No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an 
>> ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and 
>> trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN 
>> connection so that's why it's slow...
> 
> Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in. 
> However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course.

Yes, that's the downside, but as I am almost always up to date with all 
my ngs that's not a problem for me. I would imagine Sebastian's approach 
will lose that history too.

> If Sebastian or anyone else can tell me the file-deleting trick which 
> might get round this, I'd be very grateful.
> 
> Incidentally, I've never been able to get message sync to work. Whatever 
> I did, I could never read the messages offline.  Luckily I now mostly 
> (except for some of last week) have broadband so don't worry about it.
>

On 15 Jun, 18:03, BrritSki  wrote:
> Jane Vernon wrote:
> > BrritSki wrote:
> >> j...@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
> >>> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
> >>> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
> >>> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
> >>> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
> >>> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>
> >>> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
> >>> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
> >>> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
> >>> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
> >>> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
> >>> to be available with threads.)
>
> >> That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
>
> >> I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and
> >> resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested
> >> a file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
>
> >> I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
>
> >> No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an
> >> ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and
> >> trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN
> >> connection so that's why it's slow...
>
> > Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in.
> > However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course.
>
> Yes, that's the downside, but as I am almost always up to date with all
> my ngs that's not a problem for me. I would imagine Sebastian's approach
> will lose that history too.
>

Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
read yet.

ISTM that the new version of Thunderbird is a pile of wotsit and I
shall have to look elsewhere for a newsreader :(

Jane
Grumpily groping through Google

Jan

jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote in
news:7c137428-3351-4576-b318-5095d742d162@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: 

 
> Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
> I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
> read yet.
> 

I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews (usually due 
to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load new headers" - so my 
fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then sort by time and date, catch 
up all articles up to when I last read the group, and then sort what's left 
by thread again. I hope that makes sense. Can you do something similar with 
Thunderbird?

Martin

Martin Durkin wrote:
> 
> I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews (usually due 
> to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load new headers" - so my 
> fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then sort by time and date, catch 
> up all articles up to when I last read the group, and then sort what's left 
> by thread again. I hope that makes sense. Can you do something similar with 
> Thunderbird?

Snap! Yes you can, and I've just this second explained it to Jane on 
chat. :o)


Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Kim Andrews wrote:
> Martin Durkin wrote:
>>
>> I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews 
>> (usually due to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load 
>> new headers" - so my fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then 
>> sort by time and date, catch up all articles up to when I last read 
>> the group, and then sort what's left by thread again. I hope that 
>> makes sense. Can you do something similar with Thunderbird?
> 
> Snap! Yes you can, and I've just this second explained it to Jane on 
> chat. :o)
> 

Thank you, both.  For the time being Thunderbird seems to have restored 
itself, but I shall explore the sort method if the same thing happens again.

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT), jane@clothandclay.co.uk
wrote:

>On 15 Jun, 18:03, BrritSki  wrote:
>> Jane Vernon wrote:
>> > BrritSki wrote:
>> >> j...@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
>> >>> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
>> >>> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
>> >>> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
>> >>> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
>> >>> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>>
>> >>> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
>> >>> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
>> >>> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
>> >>> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
>> >>> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
>> >>> to be available with threads.)
>>
>> >> That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
>>
>> >> I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and
>> >> resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested
>> >> a file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
>>
>> >> I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
>>
>> >> No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an
>> >> ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and
>> >> trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN
>> >> connection so that's why it's slow...
>>
>> > Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in.
>> > However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course.
>>
>> Yes, that's the downside, but as I am almost always up to date with all
>> my ngs that's not a problem for me. I would imagine Sebastian's approach
>> will lose that history too.
>>
>
>Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
>I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
>read yet.
>
>ISTM that the new version of Thunderbird is a pile of wotsit and I
>shall have to look elsewhere for a newsreader :(
>
>Jane
>Grumpily groping through Google
>
>Jan
I have Agent here and in the UK and when I go to the other place there
are lots of unread posts but I've read most, so I put them in date
order and do mark read all and then unmakr the ones from the date I
know I stopped reading.

On 15 Jun 2008 18:22:13 GMT, Martin Durkin
 wrote:

>jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote in
>news:7c137428-3351-4576-b318-5095d742d162@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: 
>
> 
>> Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
>> I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
>> read yet.
>> 
>
>I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews (usually due 
>to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load new headers" - so my 
>fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then sort by time and date, catch 
>up all articles up to when I last read the group, and then sort what's left 
>by thread again. I hope that makes sense. Can you do something similar with 
>Thunderbird?
>
>Martin
I must read the whole thread before posting
I must read the whole thread before posting
etc

It seems I'm rather late in seeing this thread, and I haven't heard of
that problem before. Ah well, I forgot I'm not using TB for news these
days. :-) Remember when out of some whim I went back to trn on a Unix
account? I'm still on it, but will now temporatily switch back to TB to
see if I get the same problem. In the meantime, two remarks:

- My file deleting metod does not lose the information which articles
  have been read, see
  http://groups.google.com/group/uk.media.radio.archers/msg/4f38d3be4b378047

- You never have to reboot to correct a Thunderbird problem. Just make
  sure you have closed all Thunderbird processes while you make any
  changes in the installation or profile folders. Restarting Windows
  does not reset anything more than restarting Thunderbird does. If
  you're not sure if there's a TB process lurking in the background, use
  the Task Manager (via Alt+Ctrl+Del) to loók at the list of running
  processes (and kill any thunderbird.exe ones that you may find).

Jane, which version of Thunderbird are you now using, and were you still
at an 1.5 version before that latest update? I wouldn't recommend it,
but you can indeed go back.

Sebastian

Hi from my Thunderbird installation. :-) All I had to do for moving from 
trn back to Thunderbird, by the way, was to copy my .newsrc file from 
trn to TB (where it's called "<news server>.rc" rather than ".newsrc"). 
I then had to click on all my subscribed groups to make TB redownload 
headers which it hadn't done for months, and since then I restarted TB 
several times to see what would happen. No other files had to be 
deleted, and I haven't seen any problems so far.

Sebastian

jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
> On 15 Jun, 18:03, BrritSki  wrote:
>> Jane Vernon wrote:
>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>> j...@clothandclay.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> Yesterday Thunderbird informed me that the version I had was no longer
>>>>> supported and please to download the new version.  Today if I click on
>>>>> the news server it will show how many new messages on umra, however,
>>>>> if I click on umra itself Thunderbird goes immediately into program
>>>>> not responding.  I am writing this through GoogleGropes.
>>>>> Anyone any ideas of what is going on?  Has any otherrat had these
>>>>> problems?  What can I do?  I don't mind returning to the previous
>>>>> version, but have no idea how.  (Yesterday the thing worked better
>>>>> than this and I was able to establish that the display is different. I
>>>>> can no longer select view, messages, unread.  This feature seems only
>>>>> to be available with threads.)
>>>> That often happens to me and I run the latest version of Thunderbird.
>>>> I sometimes have to unsubscribe from a ng, close TB, reboot and
>>>> resubscribe to sort it out, although I think SebastiAn has sugggested
>>>> a file-deleting trick that would do it more easily.
>>>> I also sometimes get 2 posts garbled together with headers included.
>>>> No idea why it happens - I think it's something to do with me doing an
>>>> ALT-F L S to download and sync msgs and then getting impatient and
>>>> trying to read them before it's finished - I have a slow ISDN
>>>> connection so that's why it's slow...
>>> Thank you, the unsubscribing method got me out of the hole I was in.
>>> However, I've lost all continuity of read and unread posts, of course.
>> Yes, that's the downside, but as I am almost always up to date with all
>> my ngs that's not a problem for me. I would imagine Sebastian's approach
>> will lose that history too.
>>
> 
> Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
> I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
> read yet.

That's easy, just change View, Threads to ALL, click on the date header 
text to sort by date, and then figure out where you'd got up to. Mark 
the posts accordingly (select range with click and shift-click, and then 
toggle read/unread with the M key).
Then change view back to unread and click on the little squiggle header 
to the left of the paperclip to show them threaded again.

Good luck !

Jane Vernon wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>> Martin Durkin wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews 
>>> (usually due to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load 
>>> new headers" - so my fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then 
>>> sort by time and date, catch up all articles up to when I last read 
>>> the group, and then sort what's left by thread again. I hope that 
>>> makes sense. Can you do something similar with Thunderbird?
>>
>> Snap! Yes you can, and I've just this second explained it to Jane on 
>> chat. :o)
>>
> 
> Thank you, both.  For the time being Thunderbird seems to have restored 
> itself, but I shall explore the sort method if the same thing happens 
> again.
> 

Note to self: read whole thread before replying   :)

badriya wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2008 18:22:13 GMT, Martin Durkin
>  wrote:
> 
>> jane@clothandclay.co.uk wrote in
>> news:7c137428-3351-4576-b318-5095d742d162@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: 
>>
>>
>>> Yebbut, it's because I'm up to date with umra that it's such a pain.
>>> I have to go through hundreds of messages to find the few I haven't
>>> read yet.
>>>
>> I don't use Thunderbird, but when I have this problem with Xnews (usually due 
>> to me pressing the softkey for Catch-up instead of "load new headers" - so my 
>> fault not Xnews), I download the headers, then sort by time and date, catch 
>> up all articles up to when I last read the group, and then sort what's left 
>> by thread again. I hope that makes sense. Can you do something similar with 
>> Thunderbird?
>>
>> Martin
> I must read the whole thread before posting
> I must read the whole thread before posting
> etc

Note to self:  No, the WHOLE thread...

Sebastian Lisken wrote:
> It seems I'm rather late in seeing this thread, and I haven't heard of
> that problem before. Ah well, I forgot I'm not using TB for news these
> days. :-) Remember when out of some whim I went back to trn on a Unix
> account? I'm still on it, but will now temporatily switch back to TB to
> see if I get the same problem. In the meantime, two remarks:
> 
> - My file deleting metod does not lose the information which articles
>   have been read, see
>   http://groups.google.com/group/uk.media.radio.archers/msg/4f38d3be4b378047
> 
> - You never have to reboot to correct a Thunderbird problem. Just make
>   sure you have closed all Thunderbird processes while you make any
>   changes in the installation or profile folders. Restarting Windows
>   does not reset anything more than restarting Thunderbird does. If
>   you're not sure if there's a TB process lurking in the background, use
>   the Task Manager (via Alt+Ctrl+Del) to loók at the list of running
>   processes (and kill any thunderbird.exe ones that you may find).
> 
> Jane, which version of Thunderbird are you now using, and were you still
> at an 1.5 version before that latest update? I wouldn't recommend it,
> but you can indeed go back.
> 

Thank you.  I am using 2.0.0.14.  Fear not, Brritski, you didn't need to 
read the whole thread.  The problem is still with me.  It is happening 
much more often than not, every time I try to view umra.  This is a 
state of affairs I am not willing to live with for long.

I have no particular desire to return to the previous version, but if 
there is no other way to avoid this happening, it would seem to be a 
good idea.  I'm not doing any of the things Brritski says he thinks he 
does to cause it on his computer, and it only started happening 
immediately after downloading the new version.

Thank you to allrats who've explained about sorting by date.  It is a 
workaround.  But I don't really have the time to unsubscribe, 
resubscribe and sort every time I just want to see what's been posted in 
the last couple of hours or so, so I would like a more permanent 
solution if anyone has any further suggestions.

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

Jane Vernon wrote:
> Sebastian Lisken wrote:
>> It seems I'm rather late in seeing this thread, and I haven't heard of
>> that problem before. Ah well, I forgot I'm not using TB for news these
>> days. :-) Remember when out of some whim I went back to trn on a Unix
>> account? I'm still on it, but will now temporatily switch back to TB to
>> see if I get the same problem. In the meantime, two remarks:
>>
>> - My file deleting metod does not lose the information which articles
>>   have been read, see
>>   
>> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.media.radio.archers/msg/4f38d3be4b378047 
>>
>>
>> - You never have to reboot to correct a Thunderbird problem. Just make
>>   sure you have closed all Thunderbird processes while you make any
>>   changes in the installation or profile folders. Restarting Windows
>>   does not reset anything more than restarting Thunderbird does. If
>>   you're not sure if there's a TB process lurking in the background, use
>>   the Task Manager (via Alt+Ctrl+Del) to loók at the list of running
>>   processes (and kill any thunderbird.exe ones that you may find).
>>
>> Jane, which version of Thunderbird are you now using, and were you still
>> at an 1.5 version before that latest update? I wouldn't recommend it,
>> but you can indeed go back.
>>
> 
> Thank you.  I am using 2.0.0.14.  Fear not, Brritski, you didn't need to 
> read the whole thread.  The problem is still with me.  It is happening 
> much more often than not, every time I try to view umra.  This is a 
> state of affairs I am not willing to live with for long.
> 
> I have no particular desire to return to the previous version, but if 
> there is no other way to avoid this happening, it would seem to be a 
> good idea.  I'm not doing any of the things Brritski says he thinks he 
> does to cause it on his computer, and it only started happening 
> immediately after downloading the new version.
> 
> Thank you to allrats who've explained about sorting by date.  It is a 
> workaround.  But I don't really have the time to unsubscribe, 
> resubscribe and sort every time I just want to see what's been posted in 
> the last couple of hours or so, so I would like a more permanent 
> solution if anyone has any further suggestions.
> 

Sorry to follow self up, but also I can't make the date sort thing work 
for me.  I have selected view all threads and then sort by date, but I 
still have to open every thread and scroll through it in order to see 
the ones at the end.  I think probably at least onerat has explained 
something else I should be doing which I have not followed, sorry, IKID!

I find giving brain power to something I don't have time for invariably 
means I just don't understand it or remember what I am told.  Currently 
I am trying to get a particular batch of textiles work done within a 
fixed time frame and it reduces my intellectual capacities, such as they 
are at any other time!


-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

Jane Vernon wrote:

> Sorry to follow self up, but also I can't make the date sort thing work 
> for me.  I have selected view all threads and then sort by date, but I 
> still have to open every thread and scroll through it in order to see 

This bit's sorted, but Jane still has the main problem of Thunderbird 
dying on her, if anyone can help with that one. I've only been using T' 
a few days, and it hasn't gone wrong yet, so I'm no help there!

Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Jane Vernon wrote:
> Jane Vernon wrote:
>> Sebastian Lisken wrote:
>>> It seems I'm rather late in seeing this thread, and I haven't heard of
>>> that problem before. Ah well, I forgot I'm not using TB for news these
>>> days. :-) Remember when out of some whim I went back to trn on a Unix
>>> account? I'm still on it, but will now temporatily switch back to TB to
>>> see if I get the same problem. In the meantime, two remarks:
>>>
>>> - My file deleting metod does not lose the information which articles
>>>   have been read, see
>>>   
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.media.radio.archers/msg/4f38d3be4b378047 
>>>
>>>
>>> - You never have to reboot to correct a Thunderbird problem. Just make
>>>   sure you have closed all Thunderbird processes while you make any
>>>   changes in the installation or profile folders. Restarting Windows
>>>   does not reset anything more than restarting Thunderbird does. If
>>>   you're not sure if there's a TB process lurking in the background, use
>>>   the Task Manager (via Alt+Ctrl+Del) to loók at the list of running
>>>   processes (and kill any thunderbird.exe ones that you may find).
>>>
>>> Jane, which version of Thunderbird are you now using, and were you still
>>> at an 1.5 version before that latest update? I wouldn't recommend it,
>>> but you can indeed go back.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you.  I am using 2.0.0.14.  Fear not, Brritski, you didn't need 
>> to read the whole thread.  The problem is still with me.  It is 
>> happening much more often than not, every time I try to view umra.  
>> This is a state of affairs I am not willing to live with for long.
>>
>> I have no particular desire to return to the previous version, but if 
>> there is no other way to avoid this happening, it would seem to be a 
>> good idea.  I'm not doing any of the things Brritski says he thinks he 
>> does to cause it on his computer, and it only started happening 
>> immediately after downloading the new version.
>>
>> Thank you to allrats who've explained about sorting by date.  It is a 
>> workaround.  But I don't really have the time to unsubscribe, 
>> resubscribe and sort every time I just want to see what's been posted 
>> in the last couple of hours or so, so I would like a more permanent 
>> solution if anyone has any further suggestions.
>>
> 
> Sorry to follow self up, but also I can't make the date sort thing work 
> for me.  I have selected view all threads and then sort by date,...

Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is on 
the heading line above the errm, dates.

No idea what is causing the other problems, sorry to hear about them, 
I've used TB for years without problems (said the visiting President).

BrritSki wrote:

> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is on 
> the heading line above the errm, dates.

Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)

Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Kim Andrews wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
> 
>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is 
>> on the heading line above the errm, dates.
> 
> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
> 
>
That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)

I can barely read the current post !

BrritSki wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>> BrritSki wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is 
>>> on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>
>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>
>>
> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)

Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
wild-boar punctation. :o)

> 
> I can barely read the current post !

You're not missing much here, move along...

Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Jane Vernon wrote:

> I find giving brain power to something I don't have time for invariably 
> means I just don't understand it or remember what I am told.  Currently 
> I am trying to get a particular batch of textiles work done within a 
> fixed time frame and it reduces my intellectual capacities, such as they 
> are at any other time!
> 
> 
Go here, and download to somewhere you know you can find it again, what 
you think was your last working version of Thunderbird.
http://www.oldapps.com/thunderbird.htm

Make a note of your various passwords for your different email boxes, if 
you don't know them by heart.

Go to add or remove programs and remove Thunderbird.

Go to your downloads and run the last version of Thunderbird that worked 
for you. Cross your fingers.
-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

Kim Andrews wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is 
>>>> on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>
>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>
>>>
>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
> 
> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
> wild-boar punctation. :o)
> 
And how many bottles have *you* punctured this afternoon, Kim? ;-) 
(There's some law about this, isn't there?)
>>
>> I can barely read the current post !
> 
> You're not missing much here, move along...

Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..


-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

Gumrat wrote:
> Jane Vernon wrote:
> 
>> I find giving brain power to something I don't have time for 
>> invariably means I just don't understand it or remember what I am 
>> told.  Currently I am trying to get a particular batch of textiles 
>> work done within a fixed time frame and it reduces my intellectual 
>> capacities, such as they are at any other time!
>>
>>
> Go here, and download to somewhere you know you can find it again, what 
> you think was your last working version of Thunderbird.
> http://www.oldapps.com/thunderbird.htm
> 
> Make a note of your various passwords for your different email boxes, if 
> you don't know them by heart.
> 
> Go to add or remove programs and remove Thunderbird.
> 
> Go to your downloads and run the last version of Thunderbird that worked 
> for you. Cross your fingers.

Sorry, I forgot to say that I've just done this myself, so I know it 
works. Though I didn't have the same problems as you did when I updated 
to 2.0.0.4 (5 minutes ago), so I hope it *does* work for you

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

Gumrat wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>> BrritSki wrote:
>>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that 
>>>>> is on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>>
>>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
>>
>> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
>> wild-boar punctation. :o)
>>
> And how many bottles have *you* punctured this afternoon, Kim? ;-) 

I knew that shandy at lunchtime was a mistake. :o)

> (There's some law about this, isn't there?)

Indeed, though I'm not sure I've ever heard it's name. I never let that 
stop me from obeying thoughbut.

>>>
>>> I can barely read the current post !
>>
>> You're not missing much here, move along...
> 
> Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..

Quite nice here today. Mostly sunny. Like mostly harmless, but less 
amusing. :o)




Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Kim Andrews wrote:
> BrritSki wrote:
>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that is 
>>>> on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>
>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>
>>>
>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
> 
> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
> wild-boar punctation. :o)
> 
I did have 4 others help with the wine, but forgot to mention the sild 
and schnapps "amuse-bouche"  :)
>>
>> I can barely read the current post !
> 
> You're not missing much here, move along...
>
Yes, certainly WPC Andrews...

Gumrat wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>> BrritSki wrote:
>>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that 
>>>>> is on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>>
>>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
>>
>> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
>> wild-boar punctation. :o)
>>
> And how many bottles have *you* punctured this afternoon, Kim? ;-) 
> (There's some law about this, isn't there?)
>>>
>>> I can barely read the current post !
>>
>> You're not missing much here, move along...
> 
> Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
> 
> 
Yep, here too, only had one evening outside so far :(

In message , BrritSki 
 writes
>Gumrat wrote:
>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that 
>>>>>>is on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
>>>
>>> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
>>>wild-boar punctation. :o)
>>>
>> And how many bottles have *you* punctured this afternoon, Kim? ;-) 
>>(There's some law about this, isn't there?)
>>>>
>>>> I can barely read the current post !
>>>
>>> You're not missing much here, move along...
>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>
>Yep, here too, only had one evening outside so far :(

By rights it ought to be well and truly flaming June. We've had a new 
boiler fitted today along with four rads (3 fitted, one to go tomorrow). 
I'd made up my mind to lie under the tree with my nose in a book for the 
2 days it takes for this job - too cold to *sit* anywhere for half an 
hour never mind a whole day.

Summat's not right.

Sincerely Chris
-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

The bad news is that you say you're under stress at the moment, Jane,
and thus understandably looking for a quick and straightforward fix,
but I really don't know what's gone wrong, so I'll probably not be able
to offer that to you. It looks like I'll have to ask you to try a thing
and report back to the group, and there might be several cycles.

So far the discussion has focused on the TB version because the problem
came up after a change to 2.0.0.14. I have searched the web for reports
about that version and news access problems, with no results, and I've
verified that it "works for me".

Two remarks about version change:

Gumrat   wrote:
> Go here, and download to somewhere you know you can find it again, what 
> you think was your last working version of Thunderbird.
> http://www.oldapps.com/thunderbird.htm

I would go directly to the source:
http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/

> Go to add or remove programs and remove Thunderbird.

And I'd also, just after removing the current version, check that the
install folder (C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird) has actually gone,
and delete it if it hasn't.

However, having no real clue about the problem, I think we need to to
focus on your profile and not the TB version. Even more so because the
profile sticks with you even if you uninstall and reinstall the program.
So I'd like to find out if the problem appears even when you access the
newsgroup with a newly created profile. Assuming you want to go along
with that and your installation uses the default path, I'd need you to
do the following to create a shortcut to the TB profile manager, if you
haven't got one already.

1. On your desktop, right-click in empty space and choose New >
Shortcut. As the location, enter

"%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -profileManager

(with the quotes) and give it any name that "works for you". You should
see a new shortcut with the familiar TB icon.

2. With no TB process running, double-click the new icon. Choose to
create a new profile (click the button of that name) and name it "News
only". Then uncheck "Don't ask at startup" for the time being, make sure
"News only" is selected, and click "Start Thunderbird".

3. You see an empty TB window with a dialogue asking you to set up
a new account. Choose "Newsgroup account", enter your name and email
address (pick the data you use here in umra) and (in the next step)
your newsgroup server. Give the account a name and finish the wizard.

4. You now see an almost empty window with a preview pane (press F8 to
hide that if you want) and two icons named "Local folders" and another
for your news server (with a speech-bubble icon and the name you gave
it at the end of the lasts tep). If you need to change any details such
as the port number, right-click the news server, choose "Properties"
and then go to "Server Settings" - I don't know what you might need to
change there, but give it a look.

5. Finally, right-click the news server and choose "subscribe". In "Show
items that contain", enter "archers", find umra in the now very short
list, check the box, click OK. Choose to download all headers. After a
time spent downloading, you can click on the newsgroup and see its
contents.

You now have a spanky clean profile just for reading umra, and the first
thing I want to know is whether the problem appears in that. I asked to
you to uncheck "Don't ask at startup" because obviously you will want your
old profile for email and perhaps other news access. Whenever you start
Thunderbird now - through any shortcut - you will see your profiles so
you can choose between "News only" for these tests or whatever profile
name also exists for everything else.

Sebastian

Gumrat wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>> BrritSki wrote:
>>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>>> BrritSki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ah, not SORT BY, DATE, but actually click on the text "Date" that 
>>>>> is on the heading line above the errm, dates.
>>>>
>>>> Weren't you going to read the whole thread before posting? ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That was 3 bottles of wine and a wild-boar stew ago...   :)
>>
>> Given the 3 bottles, I congratulate you on the care taken with your 
>> wild-boar punctation. :o)
>>
> And how many bottles have *you* punctured this afternoon, Kim? ;-) 
> (There's some law about this, isn't there?)
>>>
>>> I can barely read the current post !
>>
>> You're not missing much here, move along...
> 
> Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
> 
> 
Ici aussi ;)

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

Sebastian Lisken wrote:
> The bad news is that you say you're under stress at the moment, Jane,
> and thus understandably looking for a quick and straightforward fix,
> but I really don't know what's gone wrong, so I'll probably not be able
> to offer that to you. It looks like I'll have to ask you to try a thing
> and report back to the group, and there might be several cycles.
> 
> So far the discussion has focused on the TB version because the problem
> came up after a change to 2.0.0.14. I have searched the web for reports
> about that version and news access problems, with no results, and I've
> verified that it "works for me".
> 
> Two remarks about version change:
> 
> Gumrat   wrote:
>> Go here, and download to somewhere you know you can find it again, what 
>> you think was your last working version of Thunderbird.
>> http://www.oldapps.com/thunderbird.htm
> 
> I would go directly to the source:
> http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/
> 
>> Go to add or remove programs and remove Thunderbird.
> 
> And I'd also, just after removing the current version, check that the
> install folder (C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird) has actually gone,
> and delete it if it hasn't.
> 
> However, having no real clue about the problem, I think we need to to
> focus on your profile and not the TB version. Even more so because the
> profile sticks with you even if you uninstall and reinstall the program.
> So I'd like to find out if the problem appears even when you access the
> newsgroup with a newly created profile. Assuming you want to go along
> with that and your installation uses the default path, I'd need you to
> do the following to create a shortcut to the TB profile manager, if you
> haven't got one already.
> 
> 1. On your desktop, right-click in empty space and choose New >
> Shortcut. As the location, enter
> 
> "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -profileManager
> 
> (with the quotes) and give it any name that "works for you". You should
> see a new shortcut with the familiar TB icon.
> 
> 2. With no TB process running, double-click the new icon. Choose to
> create a new profile (click the button of that name) and name it "News
> only". Then uncheck "Don't ask at startup" for the time being, make sure
> "News only" is selected, and click "Start Thunderbird".
> 
> 3. You see an empty TB window with a dialogue asking you to set up
> a new account. Choose "Newsgroup account", enter your name and email
> address (pick the data you use here in umra) and (in the next step)
> your newsgroup server. Give the account a name and finish the wizard.
> 
> 4. You now see an almost empty window with a preview pane (press F8 to
> hide that if you want) and two icons named "Local folders" and another
> for your news server (with a speech-bubble icon and the name you gave
> it at the end of the lasts tep). If you need to change any details such
> as the port number, right-click the news server, choose "Properties"
> and then go to "Server Settings" - I don't know what you might need to
> change there, but give it a look.
> 
> 5. Finally, right-click the news server and choose "subscribe". In "Show
> items that contain", enter "archers", find umra in the now very short
> list, check the box, click OK. Choose to download all headers. After a
> time spent downloading, you can click on the newsgroup and see its
> contents.
> 
> You now have a spanky clean profile just for reading umra, and the first
> thing I want to know is whether the problem appears in that. I asked to
> you to uncheck "Don't ask at startup" because obviously you will want your
> old profile for email and perhaps other news access. Whenever you start
> Thunderbird now - through any shortcut - you will see your profiles so
> you can choose between "News only" for these tests or whatever profile
> name also exists for everything else.
> 
> Sebastian
> 

Thank you, Anne and Sebastian.  All this saved for later.  Thunderbird 
works better some times than others and at the moment it's working.

I'm not so much under stress as busy at work.  After n hours taken out 
of the week for fixing problems, where n is the number that one's 
leisure time can allow, every extra hour is an hour off work.  It's the 
same for a self-employed artist (or anyone else self-employed, I guess) 
as an employed person, really, if you imagine that each of those hours 
your pay is docked one hour's worth.  Every hour I haven't worked is an 
hour I haven't earned anything!

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

In message , Jane Vernon 
 writes
[]
>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>
>Ici aussi ;)
>
Did you mean "Icy ici"?
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

God must love the common man; He made so many of them.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message , Jane Vernon 
>  writes
> []
>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>>
>> Ici aussi ;)
>>
> Did you mean "Icy ici"?

No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

Jane Vernon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message , Jane Vernon 
>>  writes
>> []
>>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>>>
>>> Ici aussi ;)
>>>
>> Did you mean "Icy ici"?
> 
> No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.
> 
In Geneva, it's just turned so "seasonal" that I'm not sure if I'm 
"glowing brightly" from the heat, or dripping with sweat because I'm 
having hot flushes all day.. (Is it hot flush or hot flash?)

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

Jane Vernon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message , Jane Vernon 
>>  writes
>> []
>>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>>>
>>> Ici aussi ;)
>>>
>> Did you mean "Icy ici"?
> 
> No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.
> 
Lovely here now, very hot.

Gumrat wrote:
> (Is it hot flush 
UK
>or hot flash?)
US

HTH

;o)

Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

Sebastian Liken wrote:
> Hi from my Thunderbird installation. :-) All I had to do for moving from 
> trn back to Thunderbird, by the way, was to copy my .newsrc file from 
> trn to TB (where it's called "<news server>.rc" rather than ".newsrc"). 
> I then had to click on all my subscribed groups to make TB redownload 
> headers which it hadn't done for months, and since then I restarted TB 
> several times to see what would happen. No other files had to be 
> deleted, and I haven't seen any problems so far.
> 
> Sebastian

On Jun 20, 2:03 pm, Gumrat  wrote:
> Jane Vernon wrote:
> > J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> >> In message , Jane Vernon
> >>  writes
> >> []
> >>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>
> >>> Ici aussi ;)
>
> >> Did you mean "Icy ici"?
>
> > No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.
>
> In Geneva, it's just turned so "seasonal" that I'm not sure if I'm
> "glowing brightly" from the heat, or dripping with sweat because I'm
> having hot flushes all day.. (Is it hot flush or hot flash?)

Is nakedness involved? If not, I suspect it is the former.

In article ,
BrritSki   wrote:
>Jane Vernon wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> In message , Jane Vernon 
>>>  writes
>>> []
>>>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>>>>
>>>> Ici aussi ;)
>>>>
>>> Did you mean "Icy ici"?
>> 
>> No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.
>> 
>Lovely here now, very hot.

It is so seasonable for Midsummer's Day today[*] that I asked wofe if
I should put the heating on as is traditional for the time of year.
She just shivered and went and fetched another blanket ...

[*] Cold, dull, drizzly, incessantly damp

Nick
-- 
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 6th June 2008)
        "The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
                -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

In message <485b9c8a$0$4377$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>, Gumrat 
 writes
>Jane Vernon wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> In message , Jane Vernon 
>>> writes
>>> []
>>>>>  Wild-boar stew is so winter-y - as is the weather here..
>>>>>
>>>> Ici aussi ;)
>>>>
>>> Did you mean "Icy ici"?
>>  No, I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  Just not very seasonal.
>>
>In Geneva, it's just turned so "seasonal" that I'm not sure if I'm 
>"glowing brightly" from the heat, or dripping with sweat because I'm 
>having hot flushes all day.. (Is it hot flush or hot flash?)
>
I was thinking of the Geneva weather shown at
http://www.skyandsummit.com/Glacegeneve/index.html, which is linked from 
http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/icestorm.asp which describes some 
of the other places it has been claimed the pictures show.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

simplest ideas often best. Thus why _Desert Island Discs_ (pick favourite music)
has been going 55 years, _Any Questions?_(discuss topical issue) 49, and _Letter
from America_ (short talk about golf) 51. [Roland White, Radio Times 10-16 May
1997 (edited).]

In article <g3jmna$6i2$3@leverton.org>, Nick Leverton 
wrote:
> It is so seasonable for Midsummer's Day today[*]


It seemed somehow appropriate to spend part of the afternnon of the summer solstice
picking the first raspberries in the rain!

Rosemary


-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

"Rosemary Miskin"  wrote in message 
news:ac.4d1cfa4fb3.a702a0miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk...
> In article <g3jmna$6i2$3@leverton.org>, Nick Leverton 
> wrote:
>> It is so seasonable for Midsummer's Day today[*]
>
>

Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of summer'.  If 
this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?

In message , Liz J 
<thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes
>
>"Rosemary Miskin"  wrote in message
>news:ac.4d1cfa4fb3.a702a0miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk...
>> In article <g3jmna$6i2$3@leverton.org>, Nick Leverton 
>> wrote:
>>> It is so seasonable for Midsummer's Day today[*]
>>
>>
>
>Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of summer'.  If
>this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?
>
>
I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice - 
"midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

All I ask is to _prove_ that money can't make me happy.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
> Liz J <thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes

>>Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of summer'.  If
>>this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?
>>
> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice - 
> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.

IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the First 
of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
We were up long before the day-o
To welcome in the summer time,
To welcome in the May-o...

Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is 
Midsummer's Day on this reckoning.  My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each 
Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the 
blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
Bonnington.

A real folklorist will be along soon to do this properly.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

In message , Siderius Nuncius 
 writes
[]
>> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice -
>> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.
>
>IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the First
>of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:

Well-known? Ah, see below.

>Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>We were up long before the day-o
>To welcome in the summer time,
>To welcome in the May-o...

But is that May the month or may the blackthorn (cf. "ne'er cast a clout 
...")
>
>Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is
[]
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

All I ask is to _prove_ that money can't make me happy.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:30:01 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
 wrote:

>
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
>> Liz J <thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes
>
>>>Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of summer'.  If
>>>this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?
>>>
>> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice - 
>> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.

There is no "official" name for any of this sort of thing, at least
not in the UK, which by and large avoids "official" things altogether.
We have, for instance, no "official" National Anthem, or National
Flag.  We certainly have no "official" dates when seasons start and
finish, or have their mid-points.  And long may it remain that way.

>IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the First 
>of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
>Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>We were up long before the day-o
>To welcome in the summer time,
>To welcome in the May-o...
>
>Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is 
>Midsummer's Day on this reckoning.  My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each 
>Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the 
>blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
>Bonnington.
>
>A real folklorist will be along soon to do this properly.

I am not a real folk-lorist, but I personally count summer as running
from May Day to Lammas Eve, Autumn from Lammas to All Hallows' Eve,
Winter from All Hallows until the eve of Candlemas, and Spring from
Candlemas to May eve.  This used to be how things stood, and fitted
closely with the agricultural calendar - harvest being what Autumn was
all about, and planting what spring was about, with relatively little
happening on the arable front during winter and summer.

The popular switch to seasons that begin on Solstices and Equinoxes
appears to have come into this country from the other side of the
Atlantic at some point.  Had the British wanted seasons that ran like
that, we would, I am pretty sure, have used the Quarter Days as the
reference points.

The Japanese (and, I believe, Chinese) reckon the seasons much as I
do, and formally mark Mid-Spring and Mid-Autumn days.  The Irish also
use the same traditional reckoning, hang the seasons on the Gaelic
festivals of Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:30:01 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
>  wrote:
> 
>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
>>> Liz J <thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes
>>>> Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of summer'.  If
>>>> this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?
>>>>
>>> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice - 
>>> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.
> 
> There is no "official" name for any of this sort of thing, at least
> not in the UK, which by and large avoids "official" things altogether.
> We have, for instance, no "official" National Anthem, or National
> Flag.  We certainly have no "official" dates when seasons start and
> finish, or have their mid-points.  And long may it remain that way.
> 
>> IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the First 
>> of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
>> Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>> We were up long before the day-o
>> To welcome in the summer time,
>> To welcome in the May-o...
>>
>> Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is 
>> Midsummer's Day on this reckoning.  My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each 
>> Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the 
>> blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
>> Bonnington.
>>
>> A real folklorist will be along soon to do this properly.
> 
> I am not a real folk-lorist, but I personally count summer as running
> from May Day to Lammas Eve, Autumn from Lammas to All Hallows' Eve,
> Winter from All Hallows until the eve of Candlemas, and Spring from
> Candlemas to May eve.  This used to be how things stood, and fitted
> closely with the agricultural calendar - harvest being what Autumn was
> all about, and planting what spring was about, with relatively little
> happening on the arable front during winter and summer.
> 
> The popular switch to seasons that begin on Solstices and Equinoxes
> appears to have come into this country from the other side of the
> Atlantic at some point.  Had the British wanted seasons that ran like
> that, we would, I am pretty sure, have used the Quarter Days as the
> reference points.
> 
> The Japanese (and, I believe, Chinese) reckon the seasons much as I
> do, and formally mark Mid-Spring and Mid-Autumn days.  The Irish also
> use the same traditional reckoning, hang the seasons on the Gaelic
> festivals of Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh.

Which dates do Lammas and Candlemas fall on?

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
> Siderius Nuncius   writes

>>IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the First
>>of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
>
> Well-known? Ah, see below.
>
>>Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>>We were up long before the day-o
>>To welcome in the summer time,
>>To welcome in the May-o...
>
> But is that May the month or may the blackthorn (cf. "ne'er cast a clout 
> ...")

As it's sung on the First of may each year, I suggest the former.  Hence it 
being a May Day song.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:58:48 +0100, Jane Vernon
 wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:30:01 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is 
>>> Midsummer's Day on this reckoning.  My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each 
>>> Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the 
>>> blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
>>> Bonnington.
>>>
>>> A real folklorist will be along soon to do this properly.
>> 
>> I am not a real folk-lorist, but I personally count summer as running
>> from May Day to Lammas Eve, Autumn from Lammas to All Hallows' Eve,
>> Winter from All Hallows until the eve of Candlemas, and Spring from
>> Candlemas to May eve.  This used to be how things stood, and fitted
>> closely with the agricultural calendar - harvest being what Autumn was
>> all about, and planting what spring was about, with relatively little
>> happening on the arable front during winter and summer.
>> 
>> The popular switch to seasons that begin on Solstices and Equinoxes
>> appears to have come into this country from the other side of the
>> Atlantic at some point.  Had the British wanted seasons that ran like
>> that, we would, I am pretty sure, have used the Quarter Days as the
>> reference points.
>> 
>> The Japanese (and, I believe, Chinese) reckon the seasons much as I
>> do, and formally mark Mid-Spring and Mid-Autumn days.  The Irish also
>> use the same traditional reckoning, hang the seasons on the Gaelic
>> festivals of Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh.
>
>Which dates do Lammas and Candlemas fall on?

1 August and 2 February respectively.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote in
news:Orx6oERc7qXIFwg7@soft255.demon.co.uk: 

> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice -
> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.

Although this year's summer solstice was on 20th June, at 23:59 UTC. But as 
this is equivalent to 21st June 00:59 BST, I suppose you're still correct.
-- 
Jim                             <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

"Siderius Nuncius"  writes:
>[...]  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
>Bonnington.

a person with a backlog (it says here) of 351 wonders whether your
remark has been followed up by some indication of progress with the
writing.
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article , "Liz J"
<thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net> wrote:
> If 
> this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over? 
> 

No - Saturday was the summer solstice, aka the first day of summer.
Midsummer Day is June 24th - giving a fairly realistic length of the British
summer of six days.

Rosemary

-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

Siderius Nuncius wrote:

>My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each 
>Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the 
>blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton 
>Bonnington.
>
That's more than a hop and step away from your current stamping
ground!  BTW, even though I only live about 4 miles away, I also
thought it had two "n" s.

Chris
-- 
Chris J Dixon  Nottingham    
'48/59/31 M B+ G+ A L(-) I S-- CH-(--) Ar++ T+ H0 ?Q Sh+
chris@cdixon.me.uk
Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In message , Stephen 
 writes
>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:30:01 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
>>> Liz J <thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes
>>
>The Japanese (and, I believe, Chinese) reckon the seasons much as I
>do, and formally mark Mid-Spring and Mid-Autumn days.
 >
The Spring Festival falls on the 1st day of the 1st lunar month, often 
one month later than the Gregorian calendar. The Chinese government now 
stipulates people have seven days off for the Chinese Lunar New Year. 
Bearing in mind how far apart the date can be (like our Easter), the 
first day of spring must feel rather a misnomer in the wilds of the Gobi 
Desert or Tibet.

The Mid-Autumn Festival falls on the 15th day of the 8th lunar month, 
usually in October in Gregorian calendar.

I got this from www.china.cn FWIW.

Sincerely Chris
-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

"Robin Fairbairns"  wrote
> "Siderius Nuncius"  writes:

>>[...]  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton
>>Bonnington.
>
> a person with a backlog (it says here) of 351 wonders whether your
> remark has been followed up by some indication of progress with the
> writing.

No.

HTH
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

"Chris J Dixon"  wrote
> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>
>>My Morris side had a Day of Dancing each
>>Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) and I had the
>>blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography Agony In Sutton
>>Bonnington.
>>
> That's more than a hop and step away from your current stamping
> ground!  BTW, even though I only live about 4 miles away, I also
> thought it had two "n" s.

Nugger.  I wondered about that, thought of looking it up and then didn't. 
After all, my first serious girfriend, whom I went out with from when we 
were 16 to when we were 19 lived there.  I mean, how could I possibly 
forget?
<sigh>

Where do you live, btw?  Keg'orth?  Kingston on Soar?  East Leake?  Drank in 
all of them and danced in most, I think.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

Siderius Nuncius wrote:

>Where do you live, btw?  Keg'orth?  Kingston on Soar?  East Leake?  Drank in 
>all of them and danced in most, I think.

I'm in East Leake, though have no personal experience of its
watering holes.  Which side did you dance with?

Chris
-- 
Chris J Dixon  Nottingham    
'48/59/31 M B+ G+ A L(-) I S-- CH-(--) Ar++ T+ H0 ?Q Sh+
chris@cdixon.me.uk
Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon"  wrote
> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>
>>Where do you live, btw?  Keg'orth?  Kingston on Soar?  East Leake?  Drank 
>>in
>>all of them and danced in most, I think.
>
> I'm in East Leake, though have no personal experience of its
> watering holes.  Which side did you dance with?

Dolphin.
http://www.dolphin-morris.co.uk/

It was a while ago, mind.  :o)
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message , Siderius Nuncius 
>  writes
> []
>>> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice -
>>> "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.
>>
>> IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the 
>> First
>> of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
> 
> Well-known? Ah, see below.
> 
>> Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>> We were up long before the day-o
>> To welcome in the summer time,
>> To welcome in the May-o...
> 
> But is that May the month or may the blackthorn (cf. "ne'er cast a clout 
> ...")

May isn't blackthorn, May is hawthorn.
I don't think you could "welcome in" a shrub or a flower, and the song 
is definitely associated with May Day.

-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

Jane Vernon wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:30:01 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote
>>>> Liz J <thejordanschangethistoanatsignclara.net@?.?.invalid> writes
>>>>> Google had a pic on yesterday that was labelled 'first day of 
>>>>> summer'.  If
>>>>> this is also 'Midsummer's Day', does that mean summer is now over?
>>>>>
>>>> I think summer _does_ start on June 21. Which is the summer solstice 
>>>> - "midsummer's day" is not the official (BSVO official) name.
>>
>> There is no "official" name for any of this sort of thing, at least
>> not in the UK, which by and large avoids "official" things altogether.
>> We have, for instance, no "official" National Anthem, or National
>> Flag.  We certainly have no "official" dates when seasons start and
>> finish, or have their mid-points.  And long may it remain that way.
>>
>>> IIRC in the "Folk Calendar" (whatever that is), summer starts on the 
>>> First of May. Hence the well-known May Day song:
>>> Hal-an-tow, jolly rumble-oh,
>>> We were up long before the day-o
>>> To welcome in the summer time,
>>> To welcome in the May-o...
>>>
>>> Well, it's well-known among folkie types, anyway.  And June 21st is 
>>> Midsummer's Day on this reckoning.  My Morris side had a Day of 
>>> Dancing each Midsummer's Day (i.e. the nearest Saturday to June 21st) 
>>> and I had the blisters to prove it.  I may well call my autobiography 
>>> Agony In Sutton Bonnington.
>>>
>>> A real folklorist will be along soon to do this properly.
>>
>> I am not a real folk-lorist, but I personally count summer as running
>> from May Day to Lammas Eve, Autumn from Lammas to All Hallows' Eve,
>> Winter from All Hallows until the eve of Candlemas, and Spring from
>> Candlemas to May eve.  This used to be how things stood, and fitted
>> closely with the agricultural calendar - harvest being what Autumn was
>> all about, and planting what spring was about, with relatively little
>> happening on the arable front during winter and summer.
>>
>> The popular switch to seasons that begin on Solstices and Equinoxes
>> appears to have come into this country from the other side of the
>> Atlantic at some point.  Had the British wanted seasons that ran like
>> that, we would, I am pretty sure, have used the Quarter Days as the
>> reference points.

I don't really think of solstices as being the beginning of anything, 
they're more of a mid-point, and are close to the midpoint of 
summer/winter as you define them.

The equinoxes, though, do often herald a seasonal change in the weather, 
and seem to me to mark the beginning (rather than the middle) of spring 
and autumn. I don't think there's anything very springlike about 2 
February, which is often our coldest time of year, and Lammas (1 Aug) is 
definitely still summer time by most people's reckoning. The main 
harvest does sometimes start as early as that now, but I don't think it 
used to, and nor do I think there's much sowing or planting taking place 
in early February (unless of course you're planning to harvest at 
Lammas, in which case you'd have to give it a go...).


-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:37:12 +0100, Marjorie
 wrote:

>I don't really think of solstices as being the beginning of anything, 
>they're more of a mid-point, and are close to the midpoint of 
>summer/winter as you define them.
>
>The equinoxes, though, do often herald a seasonal change in the weather, 
>and seem to me to mark the beginning (rather than the middle) of spring 
>and autumn. I don't think there's anything very springlike about 2 
>February, which is often our coldest time of year, and Lammas (1 Aug) is 
>definitely still summer time by most people's reckoning. The main 
>harvest does sometimes start as early as that now, but I don't think it 
>used to, and nor do I think there's much sowing or planting taking place 
>in early February (unless of course you're planning to harvest at 
>Lammas, in which case you'd have to give it a go...).

Lammas means loaf mass, and was celebrated with loaves made from the
first wheat of the year's harvest.

Ploughing began, in theory, on the first Monday after Epiphany (which
is why it is called Plough Monday), although in practice bad weather
might delay things by a few weeks.

So I think that the traditional seasons did align with the
agricultural year.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

In message <CI6dnWd3jor6dv3VRVnyjQA@posted.plusnet>, Marjorie 
 writes
[]
>The equinoxes, though, do often herald a seasonal change in the 
>weather, and seem to me to mark the beginning (rather than the middle) 
>of spring and autumn. I don't think there's