Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
in this-
Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415278,00.htm

73, doug

On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 
 said:

> Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
> in this-
> Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415278,00.htm
> 
> 73, doug

I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have 
always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this 
were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to 
moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that 
laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely 
influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably 
the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of 
Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.

It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world - 
the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of 
the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the 
people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all 
funded.

Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.



Ian.
--

On 16 May, 23:10, Ian Piper  wrote:
> On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>  said:
>
> > Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
> > in this-
> > Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
> >http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415...
>
> > 73, doug
>
> I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have
> always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this
> were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to
> moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that
> laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely
> influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably
> the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of
> Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.
>
> It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world -
> the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of
> the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the
> people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all
> funded.
>
> Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.

YANAOU

I agree with everything you say.
I went there for my birthday treat and was amazed by the enthusiam of
those running the place, but rather saddened by the "shoestring
operation" feel about it all. I wouldn't want it turned into a theme
park, but I'm sure it could be made a much better preserved place.

What I cannot understand is them being turned down by Gates. Microsoft
was quite late in the day coming in to the internet m'larky - why
should thay limit the money to "internet-based technology projects" ?

A pivotal place in the history of the twentieth century.

"Bob E"  wrote in message 
news:de252326-cbce-491e-9e37-3c0c71d66ee4@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 May, 23:10, Ian Piper  wrote:
>> On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>>  said:
>>
>> > Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>> > in this-
>> > Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>> >http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415...
>
> What I cannot understand is them being turned down by Gates. Microsoft
> was quite late in the day coming in to the internet m'larky - why
> should thay limit the money to "internet-based technology projects" ?

The application was turned down by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, 
not by Microsoft. The Foundation isn't really about preserving historic 
artefacts and the like, but about realising opportunities for people's 
future.
From the web site:
"Guided by the belief that every life has equal value, the Bill & Melinda 
Gates Foundation works to help all people lead healthy, productive lives. In 
developing countries, it focuses on improving people’s health and giving 
them the chance to lift themselves out of hunger and extreme poverty. In the 
United States, it seeks to ensure that all people—especially those with the 
fewest resources—have access to the opportunities they need to succeed in 
school and life"

Don't get me wrong, personally I also think it's a crying shame such a 
significant place is being neglected, but more appropriate sources of 
funding should be sought, e.g. a personal grant from Bill rather from his 
Foundation.

In message 
, Bob 
E  writes
>On 16 May, 23:10, Ian Piper  wrote:
>> On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>>  said:
>>
>> > Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>> > in this-
>> > Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>> >http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415...
>>
>> > 73, doug
>>
>> I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have
>> always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this
>> were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to
>> moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that
>> laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely
>> influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably
>> the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of
>> Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.
>>
>> It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world -
>> the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of
>> the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the
>> people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all
>> funded.
>>
>> Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.
>
>YANAOU
>
>I agree with everything you say.
>I went there for my birthday treat and was amazed by the enthusiam of
>those running the place, but rather saddened by the "shoestring
>operation" feel about it all. I wouldn't want it turned into a theme
>park, but I'm sure it could be made a much better preserved place.
>
>What I cannot understand is them being turned down by Gates. Microsoft
>was quite late in the day coming in to the internet m'larky - why
>should thay limit the money to "internet-based technology projects" ?
>
>A pivotal place in the history of the twentieth century.

And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who 
picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met. 
reports' ;-)  )

-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
> In message

> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met.
> reports' ;-)  )

Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
taking stuff to Bletchley park.
They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.

In message 
, Bob 
E  writes
>On 16 May, 23:10, Ian Piper  wrote:
>> On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>>  said:
>>
>> > Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>> > in this-
>> > Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>> >http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415...
>>
>> > 73, doug
>>
>> I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have
>> always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this
>> were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to
>> moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that
>> laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely
>> influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably
>> the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of
>> Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.
>>
>> It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world -
>> the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of
>> the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the
>> people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all
>> funded.
>>
>> Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.
>
>YANAOU
>
>I agree with everything you say.
>I went there for my birthday treat and was amazed by the enthusiam of
>those running the place,
 >
A lot of the work putting it together has been done by people not even 
probably old enough to have been alive during the war.  One of 
Wunderkind's radio cow-orkers is one of these.  Must send her the link.

Sincerely chris

-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

In message <MstDSMFmAvLIFAAW@mike.mcmillan>, Mike McMillan 
 writes
>In message 
>, 
>Bob E  writes
>>On 16 May, 23:10, Ian Piper  wrote:
>>> On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>>>  said:
>>>
>>> > Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>>> > in this-
>>> > Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>>> >http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415...
>>>
>>> > 73, doug
>>>
>>> I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have
>>> always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this
>>> were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to
>>> moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that
>>> laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely
>>> influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably
>>> the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of
>>> Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.
>>>
>>> It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world -
>>> the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of
>>> the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the
>>> people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all
>>> funded.
>>>
>>> Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.
>>
>>YANAOU
>>
>>I agree with everything you say.
>>I went there for my birthday treat and was amazed by the enthusiam of
>>those running the place, but rather saddened by the "shoestring
>>operation" feel about it all. I wouldn't want it turned into a theme
>>park, but I'm sure it could be made a much better preserved place.
>>
>>What I cannot understand is them being turned down by Gates. Microsoft
>>was quite late in the day coming in to the internet m'larky - why
>>should thay limit the money to "internet-based technology projects" ?
>>
>>A pivotal place in the history of the twentieth century.
>
>And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators 
>who picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking 
>met. reports' ;-)  )
>
Well, its you reading it out over the phone to her, not me.  She very 
definitely will not be amused.

Sincerely chris
-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

In message 
, Bob E 
 writes
>On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
>> In message
>
>> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
>> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met.
>> reports' ;-)  )
>
>Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
>They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
>taking stuff to Bletchley park.
>They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.

Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
it comes under the OSA now does it???!

"I volunteered for Wireless Operating.  Took the Morse Test and passed, 
and was sent to R.A.F. Compton Bassett in Wiltshire, where I started the 
six months course in Morse, technical, and receiving and transmitting 
procedures.
  The camp was an awful place, so many rules and regulations.  ALL 
nationalities trained there and came in for short refresher courses. 
After about four and a half months, it was announced one day that 
volunteers for Y Service were needed.  What is Y Serve?  We can only 
tell you there is no transmitting was the reply.
I volunteered!  Now from the moment of volunteering there was a secret 
check on that person.  All mail, friends, parents, etc, for six weeks.
If they found you were ok security wise, and of course passed the 
three-day exams, some with the R.A.F.  Some with the Post Office you 
could have one weeks leave and then be posted to CHICKSANDS PRIORY.
This camp was reasonably austere, we were all in Nissen huts for 
accommodation.  Work was on "The Technical site". Admission to this only 
when marched on and through the Security Gate for watches.
3 Watches over 3 weeks.
0001 hours till 0800 hours
0800     "     "   1600     "
1600     "      "  0001      "
Now when I arrived I had to do several weeks training on German 
Procedures, which were quite different from R.A.F.
The R.A.F. did not talk to each other in Morse.
The Germans did, and gave away a lot of information.
A young operator said to a big headed German Operator, "I don't know 
what frequency I use when we go on this evening." (The Germans Changed 
frequencies about 1800 hours each night).
Big Head sent him a whole months frequencies for Germany.
A man operator at Chicksand got the whole transmission, he was awarded 
the "Oak Leaf".

We worked in blocks on the Tech Site.  Brick buildings, artificial 
light, about 30 Operators per Block.  I can't remember how many Blocks, 
but one of them was a SEARCH Block.  This meant Operators were sent 
there to look out for stray ones, or perhaps a certain one who operated 
on frequencies at odd times.

When the Invasion Troops landed and went to different places, I was 
covering an operator at CAEN.  I am told he was in a Pill Box or Bunker, 
but that post certainly kept all 3 watches busy.  The operators sent 
many messages and all at 30 plus words per minute. I was covering him 
one shift and his key went down, and stayed down, so he was dead.  Our 
Troops had finally taken that place.  I felt quite sorry for the 
Operator, although he was my enemy.

  The Messages we took at Chicksand's were sent to Bletchley by Dispatch 
Rider, or urgent ones by Land Line.  A Dispatch Rider left Chicksand for 
Bletchley every ½ hour.  Once the "Boffins" at Bletchley had mastered 
The Enigma Machine, messages were de-coded very quickly, and possible 
action taken.  I never saw Bletchley; it was a very hush, hush place 
again.  As our Camp was, we had pylons going for miles, and when asked 
what we did at Chicksand (even by other Service people) we said we took 
Meteorological Reports.
There were 2 other Stations covering Germans, one in Cornwall and one in 
Scotland.

If Transmission was not too clear to operators, or there was very bad 
weather, we really needed that message,  - One or both of the Stations 
Banked us (took it as well).
As I have said we worked 8 hours shifts, with 2-½ hour breaks.

No, we did not just leave the Receiver, we were relieved by another 
Operator, on Relief duty, this meant the Relief coming up to the set you 
were working, plugging into the spare slot for this purpose and as soon 
as the Relief Operator has got the gist, the Operator got up and walked 
away for ½ hour, to get the Refreshment in the Site Canteen.  The first 
four hours of the shift, a proper meal was served, second half tea or 
coffee. When we came off Night shift we were served breakfast.  When 
going on the night shift - dinner. These shifts took a bit of getting 
used to, and when the Germans were not too busy it could be a bit 
boring. But not too boring really.  We were not allowed to talk on watch 
(we did of course, but very little).

The Blocks we worked in had no windows, but some heating.  At one end 
there was a very small cloakroom for the women, with one toilet and one 
washbasin and I presume the same for the men opposite ours! At the other 
end was a small office for two N.C.O.'s. They collected our messages and 
sent them to the site office for transfer to Bletchley.  They also had a 
signal machine which could pin point a frequency for an Operator and 
they were told by the site office if a particular Station was to be 
watched and when, and a frequency was double or triple banked.  Each 
Operator had a box beside the receiver with press down keys, when a 
message was taken we pressed the key and it was collected.  If people 
came from Bletchly we were told and no Operator saw the inside of the 
'Site' Office.

We had a cinema (Large Nissen Hut), which was used for quite a number of 
things - Films, dances, and concerts. Our Camp Band was very good, all 
of them Wireless Operators, but professional musicians in 'Civi Street'.

Yes sometimes the importance of the message was told to us. Usually not 
often, as a Operator could be intimidated, if pressure was put on when 
taking the Morse.

My family were not well off and I joined the W.A.A.F. because I wanted 
to see other places and people and to get away from my three small 
sisters, who were very tiresome.

I put my age on one year to join and got away with it, so for a while I 
was 16 years old and not 17 as required.

I am very glad I joined up, it was awful to start with, but I got used 
to quite quickly.  I did miss my boyfriend at first, and then he 
volunteered for the 'Glider Pilot Regiment' he was accepted and passed 
with flying colours.  Then he was sent to Yugoslavia to work with 
'Tito", that was hard work, sabotage, and some times he starved for days
He came back to this country in June 1945, and we were married July 7th 
1945.  Sadly he died of Cancer August 1968.


I think that's about all.
Except to mention we had to be seen by a Psychiatrist before we were 
finally accepted for Interception Work."

Toodle Pip, (Thanks Mum)

Mike

-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

Mike McMillan wrote:
> In message 
> , Bob E 
>  writes
>> On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
>>> In message
>>
>>> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
>>> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met.
>>> reports' ;-)  )
>>
>> Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
>> They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
>> taking stuff to Bletchley park.
>> They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.
> 
> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
> 
> "I volunteered for Wireless Operating.  Took the Morse Test and passed, 
> and was sent to R.A.F. Compton Bassett in Wiltshire, where I started the 
> six months course in Morse, technical, and receiving and transmitting 
> procedures.
>  The camp was an awful place, so many rules and regulations.  ALL 
> nationalities trained there and came in for short refresher courses. 
> After about four and a half months, it was announced one day that 
> volunteers for Y Service were needed.  What is Y Serve?  We can only 
> tell you there is no transmitting was the reply.
> I volunteered!  Now from the moment of volunteering there was a secret 
> check on that person.  All mail, friends, parents, etc, for six weeks.
> If they found you were ok security wise, and of course passed the 
> three-day exams, some with the R.A.F.  Some with the Post Office you 
> could have one weeks leave and then be posted to CHICKSANDS PRIORY.
> This camp was reasonably austere, we were all in Nissen huts for 
> accommodation.  Work was on "The Technical site". Admission to this only 
> when marched on and through the Security Gate for watches.
> 3 Watches over 3 weeks.
> 0001 hours till 0800 hours
> 0800     "     "   1600     "
> 1600     "      "  0001      "
> Now when I arrived I had to do several weeks training on German 
> Procedures, which were quite different from R.A.F.
> The R.A.F. did not talk to each other in Morse.
> The Germans did, and gave away a lot of information.
> A young operator said to a big headed German Operator, "I don't know 
> what frequency I use when we go on this evening." (The Germans Changed 
> frequencies about 1800 hours each night).
> Big Head sent him a whole months frequencies for Germany.
> A man operator at Chicksand got the whole transmission, he was awarded 
> the "Oak Leaf".
> 
> We worked in blocks on the Tech Site.  Brick buildings, artificial 
> light, about 30 Operators per Block.  I can't remember how many Blocks, 
> but one of them was a SEARCH Block.  This meant Operators were sent 
> there to look out for stray ones, or perhaps a certain one who operated 
> on frequencies at odd times.
> 
> When the Invasion Troops landed and went to different places, I was 
> covering an operator at CAEN.  I am told he was in a Pill Box or Bunker, 
> but that post certainly kept all 3 watches busy.  The operators sent 
> many messages and all at 30 plus words per minute. I was covering him 
> one shift and his key went down, and stayed down, so he was dead.  Our 
> Troops had finally taken that place.  I felt quite sorry for the 
> Operator, although he was my enemy.
> 
>  The Messages we took at Chicksand's were sent to Bletchley by Dispatch 
> Rider, or urgent ones by Land Line.  A Dispatch Rider left Chicksand for 
> Bletchley every ½ hour.  Once the "Boffins" at Bletchley had mastered 
> The Enigma Machine, messages were de-coded very quickly, and possible 
> action taken.  I never saw Bletchley; it was a very hush, hush place 
> again.  As our Camp was, we had pylons going for miles, and when asked 
> what we did at Chicksand (even by other Service people) we said we took 
> Meteorological Reports.
> There were 2 other Stations covering Germans, one in Cornwall and one in 
> Scotland.
> 
> If Transmission was not too clear to operators, or there was very bad 
> weather, we really needed that message,  - One or both of the Stations 
> Banked us (took it as well).
> As I have said we worked 8 hours shifts, with 2-½ hour breaks.
> 
> No, we did not just leave the Receiver, we were relieved by another 
> Operator, on Relief duty, this meant the Relief coming up to the set you 
> were working, plugging into the spare slot for this purpose and as soon 
> as the Relief Operator has got the gist, the Operator got up and walked 
> away for ½ hour, to get the Refreshment in the Site Canteen.  The first 
> four hours of the shift, a proper meal was served, second half tea or 
> coffee. When we came off Night shift we were served breakfast.  When 
> going on the night shift - dinner. These shifts took a bit of getting 
> used to, and when the Germans were not too busy it could be a bit 
> boring. But not too boring really.  We were not allowed to talk on watch 
> (we did of course, but very little).
> 
> The Blocks we worked in had no windows, but some heating.  At one end 
> there was a very small cloakroom for the women, with one toilet and one 
> washbasin and I presume the same for the men opposite ours! At the other 
> end was a small office for two N.C.O.'s. They collected our messages and 
> sent them to the site office for transfer to Bletchley.  They also had a 
> signal machine which could pin point a frequency for an Operator and 
> they were told by the site office if a particular Station was to be 
> watched and when, and a frequency was double or triple banked.  Each 
> Operator had a box beside the receiver with press down keys, when a 
> message was taken we pressed the key and it was collected.  If people 
> came from Bletchly we were told and no Operator saw the inside of the 
> 'Site' Office.
> 
> We had a cinema (Large Nissen Hut), which was used for quite a number of 
> things - Films, dances, and concerts. Our Camp Band was very good, all 
> of them Wireless Operators, but professional musicians in 'Civi Street'.
> 
> Yes sometimes the importance of the message was told to us. Usually not 
> often, as a Operator could be intimidated, if pressure was put on when 
> taking the Morse.
> 
> My family were not well off and I joined the W.A.A.F. because I wanted 
> to see other places and people and to get away from my three small 
> sisters, who were very tiresome.
> 
> I put my age on one year to join and got away with it, so for a while I 
> was 16 years old and not 17 as required.
> 
> I am very glad I joined up, it was awful to start with, but I got used 
> to quite quickly.  I did miss my boyfriend at first, and then he 
> volunteered for the 'Glider Pilot Regiment' he was accepted and passed 
> with flying colours.  Then he was sent to Yugoslavia to work with 
> 'Tito", that was hard work, sabotage, and some times he starved for days
> He came back to this country in June 1945, and we were married July 7th 
> 1945.  Sadly he died of Cancer August 1968.
> 
> 
> I think that's about all.
> Except to mention we had to be seen by a Psychiatrist before we were 
> finally accepted for Interception Work."
> 
> Toodle Pip, (Thanks Mum)
> 
> Mike
> 
Yes, indeed, Mike. And please thank her for that description, as well. 
Fascinating. Particularly like her three little reasons for joining up..

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

Mike McMillan wrote:
> In message 
> , Bob E 
>  writes
>> On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
>>> In message
>>
>>> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
>>> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met.
>>> reports' ;-)  )
>>
>> Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
>> They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
>> taking stuff to Bletchley park.
>> They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.
> 
> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
> 
> "I volunteered for Wireless Operating.... <snip>

Bravo Ma McMillan....

On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:18:46 +0200, BrritSki 
wrote:

>Mike McMillan wrote:
>> In message 
>> , Bob E 
>>  writes
>>> On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
>>>> In message
>>>
>>>> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
>>>> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met.
>>>> reports' ;-)  )
>>>
>>> Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
>>> They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
>>> taking stuff to Bletchley park.
>>> They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.
>> 
>> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
>> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
>> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>> 
>> "I volunteered for Wireless Operating.... <snip>
>
>Bravo Ma McMillan....

Hear, hear.

Nick O
-- 
real e-mail is nickodell (at) bigfoot (dot) com

Mike McMillan  writes:

> 
> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a
> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think
> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
> 

Thanks Mike,
There's a very interesting book about some of this- _The Secret
Wireless War_ by Walter Pidgeon.
There's no mention of Chicksands Priory that I spot, though.

Bletchley Park is unique and it's a real shame that it's not being
taken care of.

73, doug

On 17 May 2008 20:13:15 -0400, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
 wrote:

>Mike McMillan  writes:
>
>> 
>> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a
>> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think
>> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>> 
>
>Thanks Mike,
>There's a very interesting book about some of this- _The Secret
>Wireless War_ by Walter Pidgeon.
>There's no mention of Chicksands Priory that I spot, though.
>
>Bletchley Park is unique and it's a real shame that it's not being
>taken care of.

ITYM Geoffrey.

Nick O
(who did something of a double-take when he read it for the first
time)
-- 
real e-mail is nickodell (at) bigfoot (dot) com

Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> writes:

> On 17 May 2008 20:13:15 -0400, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>  wrote:
> 
> >Mike McMillan  writes:
> >
> >> 
> >> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a
> >> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think
> >> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
> >> 
> >
> >Thanks Mike,
> >There's a very interesting book about some of this- _The Secret
> >Wireless War_ by Walter Pidgeon.
> >There's no mention of Chicksands Priory that I spot, though.
> >
> >Bletchley Park is unique and it's a real shame that it's not being
> >taken care of.
> 
> ITYM Geoffrey.
> 

Yes, I don't know where that came from.

73, doug

On 17 May, 21:05, Mike McMillan  wrote:
> In message
> , Bob E
>  writes
>
> >On 17 May, 15:48, Mike McMillan  wrote:
> >> In message
>
> >> And how am I gonna tell my mum who was one of the wireless operators who
> >> picked up the massages for them to decode? (When she wasn't 'taking met> >> reports' ;-)  )
>
> >Where was she stationed when listening to the wireless?
> >They had radio sites all over the place with motorbike dispatch riders
> >taking stuff to Bletchley park.
> >They have a motorbike in the display. I think it was a BSA M20.
>
> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind ....

Wow Mike that's brilliant.
I'm glad I asked now.
This ought to be published - other than on a newsgroup.
Have you thoght of sending it to Bletchley Park museum?

I think Chicksands was on some TV programme about walks with Manic
Street Porter being escorted through the still military site -
(training school?) from one side to the other.

Feeding chicksands into geograph seartch brings up:-

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/382483

On 17 May 2008 22:05:13 -0400, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
 wrote:

>Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 17 May 2008 20:13:15 -0400, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >Mike McMillan  writes:
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a
>> >> school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think
>> >> it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>> >> 
>> >
>> >Thanks Mike,
>> >There's a very interesting book about some of this- _The Secret
>> >Wireless War_ by Walter Pidgeon.
>> >There's no mention of Chicksands Priory that I spot, though.
>> >
>> >Bletchley Park is unique and it's a real shame that it's not being
>> >taken care of.
>> 
>> ITYM Geoffrey.
>> 
>
>Yes, I don't know where that came from.

From the id, I would imagine.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

Mike McMillan  writes:
>Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
>school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
>it comes under the OSA now does it???!

i doubt it.

thank you so much for posting that: it was fascinating.

do you suppose the bletchley museum would be interested? -- i would be
surprised if not!

(btw, istr my mother trained at wootton bassett -- certainly somewhere
in wiltshire: she worked on radar.  it's about time i talked to her
about her war; will take the laptop and a recorder with me next time i
go.)
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

Bob E  writes:
>On 17 May, 21:05, Mike McMillan  wrote:
>Wow Mike that's brilliant.
>I'm glad I asked now.
>This ought to be published - other than on a newsgroup.
>Have you thoght of sending it to Bletchley Park museum?

well, quite.

>I think Chicksands was on some TV programme about walks with Manic
>Street Porter being escorted through the still military site -
>(training school?) from one side to the other.
>
>Feeding chicksands into geograph seartch brings up:-
>
>http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/382483

so the place i thought was chicksands isn't.  there used to be a
chicksands mobile telephone exchange -- installed while extra capacity
was put into some other place (i had thought letchworth, but perhaps
hitchin or even further west).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote in news:g0ot24$167$3
@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk:

> 
> so the place i thought was chicksands isn't.  there used to be a
> chicksands mobile telephone exchange -- installed while extra capacity
> was put into some other place (i had thought letchworth, but perhaps
> hitchin or even further west).

I remember an old boss of mine at BT talking about Chicksands. He had been 
based in Biggleswade I think, so maybe it was an extension of Biggleswade.

I haven't been past there for years, but looking at satellite images on 
Google it seems the big antenna is still there. It doesn't seem to appear 
on the OS map at http://tinyurl.com/5jd93n (Streetmap url)

Martin

Martin Durkin  writes:
>rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>> so the place i thought was chicksands isn't.  there used to be a
>> chicksands mobile telephone exchange -- installed while extra capacity
>> was put into some other place (i had thought letchworth, but perhaps
>> hitchin or even further west).
>
>I remember an old boss of mine at BT talking about Chicksands. He had been 
>based in Biggleswade I think, so maybe it was an extension of Biggleswade.

biggleswade was a uax7, so about as inextensible as they ever came, so
possible.  except i recall chicksands having a hitchin code.  hmmm.

>I haven't been past there for years, but looking at satellite images on 
>Google it seems the big antenna is still there. It doesn't seem to appear 
>on the OS map at http://tinyurl.com/5jd93n (Streetmap url)

i met an os surveyor once, in norfolk at the gates of some military
installation; we asked him whether he'd been measuring the place up.
he said no, they wouldn't let him in, but he said it didn't matter
(subtext: we have aerial survey).

but of course, the os in those days was part of the joint survey
service, whose other components were the department of overseas survey
(who did mapping for the foreign and commonwealth office -- their maps
of the falklands -- and stuff derived at a place i used to work at --
were the only ones the task force had), and military survey.  all the
officers in military survey were part of a rotation that took in all
parts of the jss.

so the os missing out bits of military installations has a long
history, and is easily explained (historically, at least).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In message <g0oq81$167$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns 
 writes
> Mike McMillan  writes:
>>Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a
>>school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think
>>it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>
>i doubt it.
>
>thank you so much for posting that: it was fascinating.
>
>do you suppose the bletchley museum would be interested? -- i would be
>surprised if not!
>
>(btw, istr my mother trained at wootton bassett -- certainly somewhere
>in wiltshire: she worked on radar.  it's about time i talked to her
>about her war; will take the laptop and a recorder with me next time i
>go.)

Mrs. McToodles Snr. also did some training at WB at some point.
-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

In message <lCBCB$HTqzLIFAGx@mike.mcmillan>, Mike McMillan 
 writes
[]
>Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
>school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
>it comes under the OSA now does it???!

Thanks for this (and I doubt it - it seems to be mostly public domain 
now, especially since the "Station ten" series). Fascinating.
[]
>3 Watches over 3 weeks.
>0001 hours till 0800 hours
>0800     "     "   1600     "
>1600     "      "  0001      "

I cannot be AOU in wondering why the odd minute (-:
[]
>volunteered for the 'Glider Pilot Regiment' he was accepted and passed 
>with flying colours.  Then he was sent to Yugoslavia to work with

Seems an appropriate way to pass (maybe the original of the expression? 
Though probably much older, probably naval as most of these things are).
[]
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

Essex home for sale, œ59,950: see http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/home/

"What all prayers boil down to is `Please God, alter the natural laws of the
universe in my favor'." - unknown

In message , Ian Piper 
 writes
>On 2008-05-16 17:35:59 +0100, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 
> said:
>
>> Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>> in this-
>> Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>> 
>>http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,3941527
>>8,00.htm
>>  73, doug
>
>I find this amazing. I've been to Bletchley Park many times and have 
>always been surprised at what a shoestring operation it is. If this

I've been twice - once was they day after they'd heard they had security 
of tenure, and were all quite happy; the next was a few years later.

>were in the USA it would be venerated and lavishly funded, not left to 
>moulder and fall to pieces. What is it with our country? The geese that 
>laid the golden egg and never cackled, as WSC called them, were hugely 
>influential in the outcome of the Second World War. This was probably

Though if even some of what we were told in the "Station ten" series is 
true, he ordered that it be quite thoroughly smashed up.

>the first war that was won by clever use of IT. The men and women of 
>Bletchley Park were heroes, and the place should be a national treasure.
>
>It's not even as though their work isn't relevant to today's world - 
>the lessons of data security that were at the heart of the success of 
>the code-breakers still haven't been learned. This place, and the 
>people who worked there, should be celebrated, lauded and most of all 
>funded.
>
>Ahem... well, that's what I think anyway.
>
[]
I do agree. However, I do agree with the person who said they didn't 
want it to be a theme park. I did find the WSC-worship section (which I 
think had grown up between my first and second visit) a little 
disturbing (after all, Blenheim palace not far away does that very well, 
if you want that). It does need funding - but _very_ carefully managed. 
I found the attraction of the place - especially the first time I 
visited - was to no small extent precisely that it did seem to run on 
enthusiasm and shoestring: I had the feeling that this was to at least a 
certain degree representative of the original atmosphere and spirit of 
the place. Something like that is very difficult to preserve, though - 
it either becomes _too_ ramshackle (and these days the elves get their 
oar in, too), or too artificial.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

Essex home for sale, œ59,950: see http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/home/

"What all prayers boil down to is `Please God, alter the natural laws of the
universe in my favor'." - unknown

On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:50:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
 wrote:

>In message <lCBCB$HTqzLIFAGx@mike.mcmillan>, Mike McMillan 
> writes
>[]
>>Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
>>school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
>>it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>
>Thanks for this (and I doubt it - it seems to be mostly public domain 
>now, especially since the "Station ten" series). Fascinating.
>[]
>>3 Watches over 3 weeks.
>>0001 hours till 0800 hours
>>0800     "     "   1600     "
>>1600     "      "  0001      "
>
>I cannot be AOU in wondering why the odd minute (-:

The explanations I have heard from military bods for never using 0000,
and always using 0001 instead have never made sense to me.  But what
does make sense is that the combination of 0000 with a date is
ambiguous (has "midnight on Monday" just happened, or will it happen
tonight?), while 0001 with a date is not.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

Stephen  writes:
>On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:50:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> wrote:
>>Mike McMillan  writes
>>>
>>>3 Watches over 3 weeks.
>>>0001 hours till 0800 hours
>>>0800     "     "   1600     "
>>>1600     "      "  0001      "
>>
>>I cannot be AOU in wondering why the odd minute (-:
>
>The explanations I have heard from military bods for never using 0000,
>and always using 0001 instead have never made sense to me.  But what
>does make sense is that the combination of 0000 with a date is
>ambiguous (has "midnight on Monday" just happened, or will it happen
>tonight?), while 0001 with a date is not.

indeed; my mother told me that on one occasion, when she was nco i/c
watch, she logged

  "between the hours of 2359 and 0001, a rabbit ran across the runway"

just because she could.

do the forces retain things like station logs?  one might imagine
reading one's way through thousands of pages of tedium to produce a
history of rabbits in ww2; fwiw, this one was either near peterhead or
on orkney, iirc.
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
> Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
> in this-
> Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415278,00.htm

Maybe they could get raise the money they need by getting their wives
to work as "ladies of negotiable affection" as apparently do their
modern spook brothers:
- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/19/spook_spank_stitchup/

(When did Tom Sharpe start writing the plotlines for Real Life?)

Ralph B  writes:
>Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
>> Since we've discussed the place here, I think you might be interested
>> in this-
>> Bletchly Park (in danger of) going bankrupt
>> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/imagegallery/0,1000002003,39415278,00.htm
>
>Maybe they could get raise the money they need by getting their wives
>to work as "ladies of negotiable affection" as apparently do their
>modern spook brothers:
>- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/19/spook_spank_stitchup/

i would say it's unbelievable, in the absence of this article.  after
all, it's not even april...

>(When did Tom Sharpe start writing the plotlines for Real Life?)

at least it's not jasper fforde...
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <g0rmsa$orc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
>produce a history of rabbits in ww2;

Not entirely necessary. Generally speaking, it should be fairly
consistent throughout the British Isles:

 Was born;
 Was noticed;
 Was served, with a few carrots and some Dandelion leaves.

My mum actually kept caged rabbits for the pot, throughout the war, but
I don't know what she fed them on - must ask. The family had a large
kitchen garden, but that produce was intended for humans. I assume they
ate what the humans didn't want i.e. the outside leaves of cabbages,
lettuces etc.


Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK                                      www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                     www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TD'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

In message , "J. P. Gilliver 
(John)"  writes
>In message <lCBCB$HTqzLIFAGx@mike.mcmillan>, Mike McMillan 
> writes
>[]
>>Well, it so happens that my mum wrote about it for Wunderkind for a 
>>school project once, so here is a potted version of it. (I don't think 
>>it comes under the OSA now does it???!
>
>Thanks for this (and I doubt it - it seems to be mostly public domain 
>now, especially since the "Station ten" series). Fascinating.
>[]
>>3 Watches over 3 weeks.
>>0001 hours till 0800 hours
>>0800     "     "   1600     "
>>1600     "      "  0001      "
>
>I cannot be AOU in wondering why the odd minute (-:

I was told by my mum that midnight does not exist as such when it comes 
to shifts starting and finishing times; to avoid any confusion, the odd 
minute must be worked by the shift who were working the minute before.

Speaking of such matters, it is common practice to avoid the actual 
minute of midnight when starting a timecoded sequence when using SMPTE 
code. It is usual practice to not cross the 00:00 point as it may cause 
the coding system to jump back or forward 24 hours. Many systems will 
start at 01:00 which still allows for 23 hours of recording time without 
the risk of upsetting the system.

Toodle Tick,

Mike

>[]
>>volunteered for the 'Glider Pilot Regiment' he was accepted and passed 
>>with flying colours.  Then he was sent to Yugoslavia to work with
>
>Seems an appropriate way to pass (maybe the original of the expression? 
>Though probably much older, probably naval as most of these things are).
>[]

-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

On 19 May, 14:13, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:

> i would say it's unbelievable, in the absence of this article.  after
> all, it's not even april...

What a headline though:-

MI5 spy wife was Formula One chief's Teutonic thrash tart

In message , Stephen 
 writes
>The explanations I have heard from military bods for never using 0000, 
>and always using 0001 instead have never made sense to me.

I'd known for yonks that 0000 was not used, but I thought it was 1159 
that was always used instead.
-- 
Jenny
"I always like to have the morning well-aired before I get up."
(Beau Brummel, 1778-1840)

Mike McMillan  wrote in 
news:goATfyDaybMIFA8C@mike.mcmillan:
> 
> I was told by my mum that midnight does not exist as such when it comes 
> to shifts starting and finishing times; to avoid any confusion, the odd 
> minute must be worked by the shift who were working the minute before.

When my dad was doing his national service one of his colleagues / fellow 
conscripts / what is the right word? thought that since midnight didn't 
exist it would be the perfect time to commit any rule breaches (that could 
be concluded in less than one minute). I don't know if this theory was ever 
tested.

> Speaking of such matters, it is common practice to avoid the actual 
> minute of midnight when starting a timecoded sequence when using SMPTE 
> code. It is usual practice to not cross the 00:00 point as it may cause 
> the coding system to jump back or forward 24 hours. Many systems will 
> start at 01:00 which still allows for 23 hours of recording time without 
> the risk of upsetting the system.

For our R&D work we tend to use time of day, which is OK as we don't work 
nights.
-- 
Jim                             <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

Jenny M Benson  writes:

> In message , Stephen
>  writes
> > The explanations I have heard from military bods for never using
> > 0000, and always using 0001 instead have never made sense to me.
> 
> I'd known for yonks that 0000 was not used, but I thought it was 1159
> that was always used instead.

I think you mean 2359.

I was taught that you could use either 2400 or 0000 if necessary for
accuracy, and the decision was made if something was tied to the
previous date or the new one.  So something could be signed off at
2400 or started at 0000.  OTOH, avoiding that time when logging was
encouraged.

73, doug

In message , Doug Faunt N6TQS 
+1-510-655-8604  writes
>> I'd known for yonks that 0000 was not used, but I thought it was 1159
>> that was always used instead.
>
>I think you mean 2359

Yes, of course I did!  Thanks, Doug.
-- 
Jenny
"I always like to have the morning well-aired before I get up."
(Beau Brummel, 1778-1840)