How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
press.

More: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > press.
>
> > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > countries!!
>
> China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>

Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
truth, right?


>
> >    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> > 162     China   92,33
> > 163     Eritrea         93,25
> > 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> > 165     Burma   103,63
> > 166     Cuba    106,83
> > 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> > But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> > officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
> >    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> > Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> > By David Pan
>
> > GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> > punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> > show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> > economic growth.
> > :
> > :

On Apr 28, 11:28 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > press.
>
> > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > countries!!
>
> > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> truth, right?

People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
wishful thinking and myth.

>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > press.
>
> > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > countries!!
>
> China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>

Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
truth, right?


>
> >    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> > 162     China   92,33
> > 163     Eritrea         93,25
> > 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> > 165     Burma   103,63
> > 166     Cuba    106,83
> > 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> > But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> > officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
> >    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> > Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> > By David Pan
>
> > GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> > punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> > show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> > economic growth.
> > :
> > :

On Apr 28, 11:28 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > press.
>
> > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > countries!!
>
> > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> truth, right?

People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
wishful thinking and myth.

>
>
>
>
>

If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
mistakes..

Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
"Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."

"The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
tainment
sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
of
forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
need
of from time to time."

According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
gone.
In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
the truth
from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."


On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

We have a method to collect information from China's news paper.

If you want know Beijing's bad news, you have to read Guangzhou's news
paper.
If you want know Guangzhou's bad news, you have to read Beijing's news
paper.


And then you can say:"this happened in BJ, It also can happen in GZ"


ltlee1@hotmail.com wrote:
> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..
>
> Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
> Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
> "Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."
>
> "The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
> tainment
> sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
> of
> forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
> need
> of from time to time."
>
> According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
> gone.
> In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
> the truth
> from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."
>
>
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
> >
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > press.
>
> > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > countries!!
>
> > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > truth, right?
>
> People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> wishful thinking and myth.
>
>

Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.

And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"
then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)

ltlee:

> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..

That, is the librarian's nightmare ....

The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
an end to the nightmarish process.

If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)

But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
praising
the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 12:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
very light grain of salt.



>
> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

rst0wxyz:

> Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
> and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
> sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
> people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
> measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
> different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
> very light grain of salt.

Perhaps ....

But there is no question that Iran, Cuba and N. Korea are
not challenging the PRC's lead.  For they are at awe with
the socialist big brother. And, they have been steadfastly
urging her to set a super example.

By ruling with a firmer hand .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)


Are you saying that there was no trusted news before the west had
invented the concept of press freedom?
It is crazy.
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

I have no idea what the ranking mean at all.
What the insiders had commented on their individual press is far
more meaningful.

> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:12 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > > press.
>
> > > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > > countries!!
>
> > > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > > truth, right?
>
> > People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> > educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> > to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> > them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> > wishful thinking and myth.
>
> Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
> facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
> recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
> uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
> make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.
>
> And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
> freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"

No, the problem is that "freedom of the press" does not preform as
advertised.

Theoretically, the free press will educate the citizens who, in
retrun,
will demand ever higher quality press. Citizens and itheir press,
hence,
will form a virtueous feedback cycle each making each oher better. In
reality, the free press makes the citizens dumber. According to
Howard
Dean, the American free press fails the minimum of "forcing a little
education down our throats, which we are probably in need of from
time
to time."  For more information on how the media makes the people
dumb,
read the fine book by Prof. C John Sommerville, "HOW THE NEWS
MAKES US DUMB."

> then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
> equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
> is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
> unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
> riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
> of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > press.
>
> > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > countries!!
>
> China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>

Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
truth, right?


>
> >    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> > 162     China   92,33
> > 163     Eritrea         93,25
> > 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> > 165     Burma   103,63
> > 166     Cuba    106,83
> > 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> > But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> > officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
> >    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> > Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> > By David Pan
>
> > GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> > punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> > show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> > economic growth.
> > :
> > :

On Apr 28, 11:28 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > press.
>
> > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > countries!!
>
> > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> truth, right?

People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
wishful thinking and myth.

>
>
>
>
>

If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
mistakes..

Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
"Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."

"The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
tainment
sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
of
forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
need
of from time to time."

According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
gone.
In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
the truth
from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."


On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

We have a method to collect information from China's news paper.

If you want know Beijing's bad news, you have to read Guangzhou's news
paper.
If you want know Guangzhou's bad news, you have to read Beijing's news
paper.


And then you can say:"this happened in BJ, It also can happen in GZ"


ltlee1@hotmail.com wrote:
> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..
>
> Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
> Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
> "Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."
>
> "The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
> tainment
> sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
> of
> forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
> need
> of from time to time."
>
> According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
> gone.
> In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
> the truth
> from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."
>
>
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
> >
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > press.
>
> > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > countries!!
>
> > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > truth, right?
>
> People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> wishful thinking and myth.
>
>

Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.

And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"
then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)

ltlee:

> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..

That, is the librarian's nightmare ....

The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
an end to the nightmarish process.

If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)

But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
praising
the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 12:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
very light grain of salt.



>
> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

rst0wxyz:

> Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
> and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
> sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
> people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
> measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
> different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
> very light grain of salt.

Perhaps ....

But there is no question that Iran, Cuba and N. Korea are
not challenging the PRC's lead.  For they are at awe with
the socialist big brother. And, they have been steadfastly
urging her to set a super example.

By ruling with a firmer hand .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)


Are you saying that there was no trusted news before the west had
invented the concept of press freedom?
It is crazy.
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

I have no idea what the ranking mean at all.
What the insiders had commented on their individual press is far
more meaningful.

> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:12 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > > press.
>
> > > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > > countries!!
>
> > > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > > truth, right?
>
> > People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> > educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> > to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> > them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> > wishful thinking and myth.
>
> Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
> facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
> recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
> uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
> make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.
>
> And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
> freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"

No, the problem is that "freedom of the press" does not preform as
advertised.

Theoretically, the free press will educate the citizens who, in
retrun,
will demand ever higher quality press. Citizens and itheir press,
hence,
will form a virtueous feedback cycle each making each oher better. In
reality, the free press makes the citizens dumber. According to
Howard
Dean, the American free press fails the minimum of "forcing a little
education down our throats, which we are probably in need of from
time
to time."  For more information on how the media makes the people
dumb,
read the fine book by Prof. C John Sommerville, "HOW THE NEWS
MAKES US DUMB."

> then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
> equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
> is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
> unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
> riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
> of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > press.
>
> > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > countries!!
>
> China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>

Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
truth, right?


>
> >    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> > 162     China   92,33
> > 163     Eritrea         93,25
> > 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> > 165     Burma   103,63
> > 166     Cuba    106,83
> > 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> > But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> > officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
> >    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> > Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> > By David Pan
>
> > GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> > punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> > show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> > economic growth.
> > :
> > :

On Apr 28, 11:28 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > press.
>
> > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > countries!!
>
> > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> truth, right?

People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
wishful thinking and myth.

>
>
>
>
>

If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
mistakes..

Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
"Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."

"The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
tainment
sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
of
forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
need
of from time to time."

According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
gone.
In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
the truth
from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."


On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

We have a method to collect information from China's news paper.

If you want know Beijing's bad news, you have to read Guangzhou's news
paper.
If you want know Guangzhou's bad news, you have to read Beijing's news
paper.


And then you can say:"this happened in BJ, It also can happen in GZ"


ltlee1@hotmail.com wrote:
> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..
>
> Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
> Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
> "Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."
>
> "The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
> tainment
> sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
> of
> forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
> need
> of from time to time."
>
> According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
> gone.
> In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
> the truth
> from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."
>
>
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
> >
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > press.
>
> > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > countries!!
>
> > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > truth, right?
>
> People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> wishful thinking and myth.
>
>

Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.

And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"
then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)

ltlee:

> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..

That, is the librarian's nightmare ....

The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
an end to the nightmarish process.

If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)

But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
praising
the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 12:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
very light grain of salt.



>
> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

rst0wxyz:

> Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
> and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
> sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
> people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
> measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
> different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
> very light grain of salt.

Perhaps ....

But there is no question that Iran, Cuba and N. Korea are
not challenging the PRC's lead.  For they are at awe with
the socialist big brother. And, they have been steadfastly
urging her to set a super example.

By ruling with a firmer hand .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)


Are you saying that there was no trusted news before the west had
invented the concept of press freedom?
It is crazy.
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

I have no idea what the ranking mean at all.
What the insiders had commented on their individual press is far
more meaningful.

> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 3:12 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > > press.
>
> > > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > > countries!!
>
> > > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > > truth, right?
>
> > People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> > educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> > to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> > them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> > wishful thinking and myth.
>
> Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
> facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
> recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
> uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
> make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.
>
> And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
> freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"

No, the problem is that "freedom of the press" does not preform as
advertised.

Theoretically, the free press will educate the citizens who, in
retrun,
will demand ever higher quality press. Citizens and itheir press,
hence,
will form a virtueous feedback cycle each making each oher better. In
reality, the free press makes the citizens dumber. According to
Howard
Dean, the American free press fails the minimum of "forcing a little
education down our throats, which we are probably in need of from
time
to time."  For more information on how the media makes the people
dumb,
read the fine book by Prof. C John Sommerville, "HOW THE NEWS
MAKES US DUMB."

> then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
> equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
> is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
> unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
> riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
> of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707


Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
countries!!

   http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

162 	China 	92,33
163 	Eritrea 	93,25
164 	Turkmenistan 	99,83
165 	Burma 	103,63
166 	Cuba 	106,83
167 	North Korea 	107,50

But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

Damn lies and Chinese statistics
By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
economic growth.
:
:

On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
>
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> countries!!

China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.

>
>    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> 162     China   92,33
> 163     Eritrea         93,25
> 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> 165     Burma   103,63
> 166     Cuba    106,83
> 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
>    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> By David Pan
>
> GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> economic growth.
> :
> :

On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > press.
>
> > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > countries!!
>
> China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>

Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
truth, right?


>
> >    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715
>
> > 162     China   92,33
> > 163     Eritrea         93,25
> > 164     Turkmenistan    99,83
> > 165     Burma   103,63
> > 166     Cuba    106,83
> > 167     North Korea     107,50
>
> > But press freedom is often not enough. What if the government
> > officials systematically provide the world with false statistics?
>
> >    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html
>
> > Damn lies and Chinese statistics
> > By David Pan
>
> > GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely
> > punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures
> > show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local
> > economic growth.
> > :
> > :

On Apr 28, 11:28 pm, RichAsianKid  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > press.
>
> > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > countries!!
>
> > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> truth, right?

People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
wishful thinking and myth.

>
>
>
>
>

If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
mistakes..

Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
"Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."

"The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
tainment
sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
of
forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
need
of from time to time."

According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
gone.
In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
the truth
from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."


On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> press.
>
> More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

We have a method to collect information from China's news paper.

If you want know Beijing's bad news, you have to read Guangzhou's news
paper.
If you want know Guangzhou's bad news, you have to read Beijing's news
paper.


And then you can say:"this happened in BJ, It also can happen in GZ"


ltlee1@hotmail.com wrote:
> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..
>
> Anyway, how good or how bad is the so called "free press"?
> Well, WSJ.com's Opinion Journal had this among the titles
> "Howard Dean Endorses Lying to the Media."
>
> "The media has been reduced to infotainment," Dean said. "Info-
> tainment
> sells, the problem is they reach the lowest common denominator instead
> of
> forcing a little education down our throats, which we are probably in
> need
> of from time to time."
>
> According to Dean, the golden age of media converage had been long
> gone.
> In addition, Dean endoreses lying to the media. "If you want to hear
> the truth
> from them [the politicians], you have to exculde the press."
>
>
> On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
> > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > press.
> >
> > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707

On Apr 29, 11:51 am, rst0wxyz  wrote:
> On Apr 28, 11:28 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:20 pm, rst0wxyz  wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 12:58 pm,RichAsianKid wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 27, 12:35 pm, Old Boy  wrote:
>
> > > > > How lucky we are to have a free press! China's press watchdog has
> > > > > banned journalists from their traditional means of making a decent
> > > > > living: accepting cash kickbacks for writing positive reports, and
> > > > > extorting protection money in return for making bad news disappear. It
> > > > > has long been an open secret that corruption is rife within China's
> > > > > press.
>
> > > > > More:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1707
>
> > > > Well, speaking of press freedom, China ranks 162 out of 167
> > > > countries!!
>
> > > China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the freedom
> > > of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick.
>
> > Then I gather you have no problems with some in the US using religion
> > as a device for control of the populace & uneducated.  It's important
> > to keep some docile for harmony, even at the expense of facts and
> > truth, right?
>
> People with weak mind, weak character, weak principle regardless of
> educational level will always wish the intervention of a higher being
> to grant them their desire when they don't have the ability to attain
> them on their own.  There are no facts and no truth in religion, only
> wishful thinking and myth.
>
>

Same goes for CCP, chinese communist party which for many is like a de
facto religion for mainland Chinese. And same goes for welfare
recipients in the US - they're of weak mind, weak character, most are
uneducated, they wish for intervention (government) when they can't
make it themselves and when they fail, they want more government.

And if "China needs to keep the lid on Freedom of the press, and the
freedom of speech.  They could cause chaos and dissension into panick"
then the US should also use religion (or whatever device, say, racial
equality) to prevent chaos -- assuming of course that societal harmony
is a good thing and not a bad thing. (I cite the latter because social
unrest more realistic come from race riots in US than from class
riots; and Singapore's LKY has taken that approach. It's not factual
of course, but gives some people something to believe in.)

ltlee:

> If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> mistakes..

That, is the librarian's nightmare ....

The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
an end to the nightmarish process.

If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)

But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
praising
the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.

On Apr 29, 12:41 pm, "Albert K. Fung"  wrote:
> ltlee:
>
> > If you are going to criticize China, may be you should quote Chinese
> > sources from inside China in order to be relevant and to minimize
> > mistakes..
>
> That, is the librarian's nightmare ....
>
> The logician Bertrand Russell was agonizing over the catologue of
> library books. Should it be deemed a book, then, there wouldn't be
> an end to the nightmarish process.
>
> If there's no press freedom, then can one trust Chinese sources? :)
>
> But, in the larger picture, perhaps the esteemed netter overlooked
> the silver lining in the original post. In which, the netter was
> praising
> the stellar achievements of the PRC government. She ranked 162,
> out of 167 countries. She is way ahead of Cuba and N. Korea.

Isn't this ranking also the result of the people with the prejudiced
and pre-conceived ideas or opinions of their own?  What are the yard
sticks they use to measure? and how they measure it?  If a group of
people in China following the same set of rules and methods to
measure, would they get the same result or would it be a completely
different results?  I would take this kind of opinion surrey with a
very light grain of salt.



>
> An astonishing accomplishment, is it not? .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Hacienda Escala, Santa Ynez, California, USA.