Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on the 
Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" Panasonic LCD 
and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since been told that 
the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on the market.

Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?

TIA

"diy-newby"  wrote in message 
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on 
> the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since 
> been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on 
> the market.
>
> Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?
>
> TIA

Samsung are a major manufacturer of LCD panels, Panasonic AFAIK are not - 
they use other manufacturers panels, possibly even Samsung.

Samsung panels are also used by Dell for their range of computer monitors.

OK so I am biased, I also have a Samsung 24" 244T 1920x1200 monitor which is 
defect free and I am very happy with.

The Samsung M87 series has a gloss screen which may not be to everyone's 
taste as under certain conditions can give you unwanted reflections. Under 
the correct lighting conditions though the panels give an outstanding 
(quoted >10,000:1) contrast ratio and a genuine useable 170 degree viewing 
angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.

Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

"Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
 angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>
> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
tv's?

diy-newby wrote:
> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
> tv's?

Because they're a bunch of dicks.

winker wrote:
> diy-newby wrote:
>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source
>> of the picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality
>> feeds to the tv's?
>
> Because they're a bunch of dicks.

Shirly they're not all called Richard?

"diy-newby"  wrote in message 
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on 
> the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since 
> been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on 
> the market.
>

Lookout for and read reviews of these sets by experts on the internet or in 
TV mags.

We are unable to tell good from bad in shops.
( I know one store here feeds a dedicated aerial to the first TV set in the 
row.  Others feed through a system.  So this first set allways looks better 
than the rest.)

I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   My friends 
bought a Panasonic make a few weeks back and are very pleased with it.

-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

In article ,
	diy-newby wrote:

> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>
>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
> tv's?

If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.

-- 
Paul Martin

"David"  wrote in message 
news:R%Y6i.14468$RP4.9769@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>
> "diy-newby"  wrote in message 
> news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up 
>> on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
>> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has 
>> since been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of 
>> the best on the market.
>>
>
> Lookout for and read reviews of these sets by experts on the internet 
> or in TV mags.
>
> We are unable to tell good from bad in shops.
> ( I know one store here feeds a dedicated aerial to the first TV set 
> in the row.  Others feed through a system.  So this first set allways 
> looks better than the rest.)
>
> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   My friends 
> bought a Panasonic make a few weeks back and are very pleased with it.
>
> -- 
> Regards,
> David
>
> Please reply to News Group
>

If there is a branch near you, a visit to Richer Sounds might prove 
worthwhile .

They stock LCD TVs from Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Philips, Sony, Hitachi & 
Sharp.  (For currrent range, see http://www.richersounds.co.uk/).

No hard sell.  Just competitive prices and good service.  The staff in 
my local store are always very helpful.

Adrian A wrote:
> winker wrote:
>> diy-newby wrote:
>>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
>>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
>>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source
>>> of the picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality
>>> feeds to the tv's?
>> Because they're a bunch of dicks.
> 
> Shirly they're not all called Richard?


No! Dick, not Richard nor Shirly. Sometimes they've been know to answer 
to "dipstick" and "fuckwit".

Mike

Paul Martin  wrote:
>In article ,
>	diy-newby wrote:
>
>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>>
>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>>
>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
>> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
>> tv's?
>
>If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
>to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
>DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.
>

I asked them that once.  No, they couldn't, because everything was 
*chained down*!  With chains.  The sales person thought it was 
stupid too.  YMMV!

dom.

This is my standard reply to questions like this ...

Take some DVDs (*) around the stores and ask to see them played on the 
most promising sets.  This will give direct comparisons both between 
those in the shop and with the current set at home, then make a decision 
on what the eyes (and the wallet) say.

*  Hire some if necessary  -  I suggest a good mix of 3 - 5 including at 
least:
1) To check colour balance, one natural history and one sitcom or reality
show (for human flesh tones indoors);
2) For interlacing and movement, some action shots such as the latest
blockbuster that takes the fancy, and some interlaced sport action.
3) Any thing else commonly watched at home.
4) Perhaps something containing dark scenes for assessing contrast ratio.

Also turn the set onto BBC News 24 or Sky News for how it shows poor 
quality material such as news clips.  This will show up much more clearly 
on expensive sets such as LCDs, and, although it's strictly the 
material's fault rather than the TV's, if a more expensive set just shows 
the blemishes in the signal more clearly for most of what you view, that 
constitutes a valid reason not to spend the extra money.  It's easier to 
justify an expensive set if you are going to be watching a lot of good 
source material such as DVDs.

"diy-newby"  wrote in
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net: 

> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up
> on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26"
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.

David wrote:
> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   

They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) 
Samsung keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.

Owain

"Owain"  wrote in message 
news:1180473156.24867.2@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> David wrote:
>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>
> They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) Samsung 
> keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.


lol - i can imagine samsung throwing all the lcds that fail QA into a pile 
for sony or panasonic to buy - and those companies happily purchasing them!



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

On Tue, 29 May 2007 22:25:46 +0100, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:

>
>"Owain"  wrote in message 
>news:1180473156.24867.2@proxy00.news.clara.net...
>> David wrote:
>>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>>
>> They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) Samsung 
>> keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.
>
>
>lol - i can imagine samsung throwing all the lcds that fail QA into a pile 
>for sony or panasonic to buy - and those companies happily purchasing them!


I wouldn't be surprised if they sold them to Vestel.

I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
for the purpose of'.

Graham C

In article <f3hnkk$apl$1@news.datemas.de>,
	Bob Lucas wrote:

> If there is a branch near you, a visit to Richer Sounds might prove 
> worthwhile .

> They stock LCD TVs from Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Philips, Sony, Hitachi & 
> Sharp.  (For currrent range, see http://www.richersounds.co.uk/).

> No hard sell.  Just competitive prices and good service.  The staff in 
> my local store are always very helpful. 

I can happily praise Richer Sounds. I bought a pair of shop-soiled
floor-standing Kef speakers before Christmas, got them home, and found
one of the set was very badly scratched.

I took it back to the shop two days later. The staff apologised and
found me the best example from the store room to replace it. The pair
of speakers I ended up having would be hard to tell from new units,
with only a few very fine scratches on their bases, something that
would happen anyway after a few months.

-- 
Paul Martin

In message , Owain 
 wrote
>David wrote:
>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>
>They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) 
>Samsung keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.
>

Yep,  the QVC salesman is your friend and he is doing you a favour by 
selling to you :)

 From what I've seen most of the presenters are well outside of their 
comfort zone when talking about anything technical and their guests 
often talk b******t about rubbish they are selling.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

Better still, go to a good , independant TV dealer who will know about
the sets he or she sells, who will demonstrate them properly and
install them to give their very best. Yes, you may pay a bit more but
you will get a much better deal overall and they will be there for you
if you have a problem. The only reason that the big stores exist is
that people go to them thinking that they are getting a good deal. You
only have to look at the comments on the forums to see that they don't
know what they are selling and the sales children have little or no
knowledge of installation, setting up or real performance.

Whilst on the subject, beware, some of the highest profit making items
on sale in the big stores are the add-ons. Scart leads, wall brackets
and switch boxes.

Last week I was asked to fit a 23" LCD TV flat on the wall. The
customer had bought the set at Currys and the salesperson had sold her
two very high-priced gold plated, thick scart leads to connect her
Tescos DVD player and Alba VCR and also a £110 wall bracket saying it
was the right one for the job.
We used a £9.99 flat-to-the-wall bracket and 2 good quality flat
screened scart leads for £6 each. (Her Sky box already had a scart
lead.)
The total job, including TV sale, from us including lnstallation
labour and setting up would have been considerably less than she was
going to pay altogether AND we would have sold her a model of TV which
could have been controlled with the Sky remote handset. The one she
had been sold could not although she had told them that she had Sky.

This is a LG/Philips LCD

http://uk.aldi.com/sunday_special_buys/sunday_special_buys_pid_54092.html

3 year guarantee

On May 29, 8:07 pm, Dominic  wrote:
> Paul Martin  wrote:
> >In article ,
> >    diy-newby wrote:
>
> >> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
> >>news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> >>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>
> >>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
> >>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>
> >> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the
> >> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the
> >> tv's?
>
> >If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
> >to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
> >DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.
>
> I asked them that once.  No, they couldn't, because everything was
> *chained down*!  With chains.  The sales person thought it was
> stupid too.  YMMV!
>
> dom.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Graham C"  wrote in message 
news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
>
> I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
> to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
> around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
> for the purpose of'.

I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?

Roger R

In article ,
   Roger R  wrote:

> "Graham C"  wrote in message 
> news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
> >
> > I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
> > to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
> > around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
> > for the purpose of'.

> I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
> Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?


I always understood that the 5W Sinclair amp/chip was made for them by
Texas Instruments who refused to put their name on them.  I don't think
"unfit for purpose" existed at the time of Sinclair.

-- 
Nomad Theatre, East Horsley, Surrey

www.nomadtheatre.com

"Roger R"  wrote in message .
>
> I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
> Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?
>

An electronics firm near me run out of a compoment, due to rejecting many of 
them, so in order to full the order used the rejected ones.


-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

wrote in message 
news:1180629435.480918.258050@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Better still, go to a good , independant TV dealer who will know about
the sets he or she sells, who will demonstrate them properly and
install them to give their very best......
[snip]
.......The total job, including TV sale, from us......

An completely objective opinion then.

(I'm inclined to agree though)

Roger R

>
> An completely objective opinion then.
>
> (I'm inclined to agree though)
>
> Roger R

I am biased, obviously, but I see it all the time and quite
interestingly, people seem to enjoy telling me how badly they have
been treated by the big stores. I cant really understand this one. I
think I would tend to keep quiet about it if I had been to one of
them, received less than perfect advice or service and still bought
from them.

wrote in message 
news:1180741501.448054.5350@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I am biased, obviously, but I see it all the time and quite
> interestingly, people seem to enjoy telling me how badly they have
> been treated by the big stores. I cant really understand this one. I
> think I would tend to keep quiet about it if I had been to one of
> them, received less than perfect advice or service and still bought
> from them.
>

Perhaps that's because they see the failure as the stores fault and not 
their own for making the wrong decision about where to buy.   And they think 
that by subsequently blackening the store/your competitor they are 
demonstrating to you how much wiser they are now and perhaps you will be 
more favourably disposed to give them a good deal/service.

Roger R

> Perhaps that's because they see the failure as the stores fault and not
> their own for making the wrong decision about where to buy.   And they think
> that by subsequently blackening the store/your competitor they are
> demonstrating to you how much wiser they are now and perhaps you will be
> more favourably disposed to give them a good deal/service.
>
> Roger R

I hope we would anyway. Really I think it is all about being as honest
as possible when asked for an opinion or to give a demo. I have even
been known to send a prospective customer to a competitor for a
particular piece of equipment if I feel it would suit them better than
something we sell. At least it builds up trust and we will probably
see them again later for something else or to do an installatioin.
I would say though, that a big problem for the independant dealer
trying to give the best service and advice, is the customer who uses a
great deal of our time and facilities and then goes elsewhere to buy.
This is always likely to happen but it has already lead to the demise
of the majority of small dealers  and just perpetuates the domination
of the chain stores. One wonders what happens when the last small
dealers close down and there is no one left to sort out and connect up
the haphazard mess of equipment that many people seem to collect.

Talking about the poor quality feeds which many stores have to their
demo TV's:
I wandered into Commet in a nearby town around Christmas 18 months
ago. On one side of an isle they had a collection of "HD Ready" LCD
and plasma TV's and on the other side they had the rest of the LCD's
and plasma's.
All of the sets on the "HD" side were fed from an HD source via
component cables and were showing recent HD football (Great quality,
of course).
The "non HD" isle were showing an old football match which was
obviously recorded in VHS quality (Definitely on tape or copied from
tape) and all of the sets were connected with RF aerial cables ONLY!
I am sure this must have come very close to mis-selling. I stayed
around for a bit and listened to customers and it was obvious that
none of them had the slightest idea about anything but what they saw
on the screen. The salesman seemed pretty busy demonstrating the
difference in quality.

A lot of what you guys say  -  the way chain stores rig their demos, the
ridiculous price of extras, etc  -   is fair comment, but in the end there
is no substitute for the customer being well informed.

From the customer's point of view, however, it's very difficult to get hold
of the relevant information.  As I have recently shown in another thread ...
    http://tinyurl.com/27ajfd
    ... standing in for ...
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/browse_thread/thread/2c685270eed0b750/dfb22a5b9d5794ce?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#dfb22a5b9d5794ce
.... even making a rational choice of a new kettle is more complex than might
at first appear, and in that thread the group seemed to agree with me that
information posted on a manufacturer's website is just plain wrong, in that
it runs contrary to the laws of physics!

Within the last year or so, I've also looked at a replacement midi stereo
for my bedroom/office, and a replacement soundcard for my PC, and not a
single one of the units I looked at had technical specifications such as
Frequency Response, Signal-To-Noise Ratio, or Total Harmonic Distortion,
anywhere in the accompanying literature, though a few were available on
websites, and I obtained one or two more by emailing manufacturers.  AFAICR,
such a situation would have been unthinkable in my youth, and at very least
I simply wouldn't have bought anything where such specifications were not
given.

When you consider the above, and also consider some of the pseudo-science
that has been put forward to bolster entrenched thinking, even in
uk.tech.digital-tv, a technical ng where one has a right to expect
independent rationality, then I regret I wouldn't trust even an
'independent' 'expert'.

Hence my advice aimed at giving the OP some independent means of directly
comparing sets, though I accept that it's true that:

1)    Between stores, different DVD players, and the way they are connected
to the TVs  -  RGB/CV/RF - are also implicitly being compared.

2)    It's becoming obsolete to use DVDs for such a comparison because they
are SD.  However, I'm not sure how many suitable HD format disks the average
punter could obtain for such a comparison, and how many stores could mount a
demo with the particular one of competing formats a customer might bring in,
while DVDs are at any rate commonly available and still a better source than
most SD broadcast feeds (though the shots of the Namib desert in the last
Natural World "Desert Lions" were breathtaking, even on five year old SD
equipment   -  Panasonic 22" LCD fed via RGB from a Dreambox satellite
decoder).

I dread anything going wrong these days.  Design, looks, and hype triumph
over fact and functionality at every turn, and finding an adequate
replacement for the simplest thing has become an obstacle course.  I can't
even get jeans that fit me because of my height.  I had to wait to go into
town for other reasons to get a refill for a decent biro.  I had to buy a
replacement battery for my mobile on-line, because all the local stores want
to do is sell you a new one with a call package.

(-: Wanders of into the sunset muttering something in a pseudo-Yorkshire
brogue to the effect:  "Eee!  When I were a young 'un ..." :-)

 wrote in message
news:1180827441.515786.199880@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>

> > "Roger R"  wrote in message
news:1180778906.1422.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> >

>I dread anything going wrong these days.  Design, looks, and hype triumph
>over fact and functionality at every turn, and finding an adequate
>replacement for the simplest thing has become an obstacle course.  I can't
>even get jeans that fit me because of my height.  I had to wait to go into
>town for other reasons to get a refill for a decent biro.  I had to buy a
>replacement battery for my mobile on-line, because all the local stores want
>to do is sell you a new one with a call package.
>
>(-: Wanders of into the sunset muttering something in a pseudo-Yorkshire
>brogue to the effect:  "Eee!  When I were a young 'un ..." :-)

Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
service!....

How many times do you get the request "where can I get a whatever at the
lowest possible PRICE" ?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In message , tony sayer 
 wrote


>Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
>service!....

What after sales service would you need with consumer products if you 
were just replacing the older version with something newer?


-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:38:54 +0100, membership
 wrote:

>In article ,
>   Roger R  wrote:
>
>> "Graham C"  wrote in message 
>> news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
>> > to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
>> > around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
>> > for the purpose of'.
>
>I always understood that the 5W Sinclair amp/chip was made for them by
>Texas Instruments who refused to put their name on them.  I don't think
>"unfit for purpose" existed at the time of Sinclair.

I still have a few of these left - they were of two types one had two
metal tabs to which the heatsink would be attached.  The other had a
2BA bolt sticking out of it for the same purpose.  They were
definitely Plessey as my mate gave them to me - he left Sinclair's
employment and went on to work for Plessey in Swindon.

The Plessey spec was something like :
0.3 % THD at 1 W, 
2.5% THD at 2 W, 
hence you can guess the distortion at 5 watts !

Re 'unfit for the purpose of' he told me that the biggest problem in
working for Sinclair in Cambridge, was getting through the front door
in the morning.  If the post had already been you couldn't open the
front door owing to the huge mound of returns on the other side.

G.

In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
 writes
>In message , tony sayer 
> wrote
>
>
>>Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
>>service!....
>
>What after sales service would you need with consumer products if you 
>were just replacing the older version with something newer?
>
>

Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
when your buying it..


-- 
Tony Sayer

In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
 wrote
>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
> writes
>
>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>when your buying it..

Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
extended warranty.

The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article , Alan
 writes
>In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> wrote
>>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
>> writes
>>
>>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>>when your buying it..
>
>Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
>you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
>extended warranty.
>
>The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
>goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
>

Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher. 

And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.

Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Alan
>  writes
> >In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> > wrote
> >>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
> >> writes
> >>
> >>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
> >>when your buying it..
> >
> >Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
> >you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
> >extended warranty.
> >
> >The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
> >goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
> >

> Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
> were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
> who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
> an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher. 

> And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.

> Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
> the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....

and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
said she hadn't noticed ;-(

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"charles"  wrote in message 
news:4eed5ce167charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> In article ,
>   tony sayer  wrote:
>> In article , Alan
>>  writes
>> >In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
>> > wrote
>> >>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
>> >> writes
>> >>
>> >>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>> >>when your buying it..
>> >
>> >Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
>> >you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
>> >extended warranty.
>> >
>> >The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
>> >goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
>> >
>
>> Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
>> were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
>> who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
>> an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher.
>
>> And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.
>
>> Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
>> the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....
>
> and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
> said she hadn't noticed ;-(
>
> -- 
> From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
>
> Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
>

In my experience TWMBO (the collective noun for SWMBO :-) very rarely do - 
especially when it's a 4:3 stretched to 16:9.  Personally I believe it is a 
genetically inherited defence mechanism designed to thwart our arguments for 
spending megabucks on an even bigger and better one before we even open our 
mouths......................

In article ,
	charles wrote:

> and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
> said she hadn't noticed ;-(

"This week Charles Hope will be visiting the living room and meeting
representatives of the household." :-)

-- 
Paul Martin

diy-newby wrote:
:: Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up
:: on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26"
:: Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has
:: since been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of
:: the best on the market.
::
:: Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?
::
:: TIA

Panasonic every time (as long as its the 600/700 not 60/70 range) I have the 
600 series 32" lcd, its superb, got that after 2 months review hunting of 
all the 32" lcd's available, and then some 2 hours comparing in John 
Lewis's, got John Lewis to price match (was listed at £1300, got it for 
£999) and they chuck in a 5 year warranty, get yourself over to av forums 
and ask around, most helpful bunch of people http://www.avforums.com/

HTH


-- 
daZza
mr.dazza@"BUT_PLUG"gmail.com
(remove "BUT_PLUG" to reply)
*www.thekellyhouse.co.uk*

Java Jive wrote in message ...

>As I have recently shown in another thread ...
>    http://tinyurl.com/27ajfd
>    ... standing in for ...
>http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/browse_thread/thread/2c68
5270eed0b750/dfb22a5b9d5794ce?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#dfb22a5b9d5794ce
>... even making a rational choice of a new kettle is more complex than
might
>at first appear, and in that thread the group seemed to agree with me that
>information posted on a manufacturer's website is just plain wrong, in that
>it runs contrary to the laws of physics!

check out the first post from this link

mk5000

"if I never see your face again.  I don't mind cause we've gone much farther
than I thought we'd go tonigh"--maroon 5

"diy-newby"  wrote in message 
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on 
> the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since 
> been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on 
> the market.
>
> Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?
>
> TIA

Samsung are a major manufacturer of LCD panels, Panasonic AFAIK are not - 
they use other manufacturers panels, possibly even Samsung.

Samsung panels are also used by Dell for their range of computer monitors.

OK so I am biased, I also have a Samsung 24" 244T 1920x1200 monitor which is 
defect free and I am very happy with.

The Samsung M87 series has a gloss screen which may not be to everyone's 
taste as under certain conditions can give you unwanted reflections. Under 
the correct lighting conditions though the panels give an outstanding 
(quoted >10,000:1) contrast ratio and a genuine useable 170 degree viewing 
angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.

Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

"Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
 angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>
> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
tv's?

diy-newby wrote:
> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
> tv's?

Because they're a bunch of dicks.

winker wrote:
> diy-newby wrote:
>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source
>> of the picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality
>> feeds to the tv's?
>
> Because they're a bunch of dicks.

Shirly they're not all called Richard?

"diy-newby"  wrote in message 
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on 
> the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since 
> been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on 
> the market.
>

Lookout for and read reviews of these sets by experts on the internet or in 
TV mags.

We are unable to tell good from bad in shops.
( I know one store here feeds a dedicated aerial to the first TV set in the 
row.  Others feed through a system.  So this first set allways looks better 
than the rest.)

I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   My friends 
bought a Panasonic make a few weeks back and are very pleased with it.

-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

In article ,
	diy-newby wrote:

> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>
>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
> tv's?

If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.

-- 
Paul Martin

"David"  wrote in message 
news:R%Y6i.14468$RP4.9769@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>
> "diy-newby"  wrote in message 
> news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up 
>> on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
>> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has 
>> since been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of 
>> the best on the market.
>>
>
> Lookout for and read reviews of these sets by experts on the internet 
> or in TV mags.
>
> We are unable to tell good from bad in shops.
> ( I know one store here feeds a dedicated aerial to the first TV set 
> in the row.  Others feed through a system.  So this first set allways 
> looks better than the rest.)
>
> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   My friends 
> bought a Panasonic make a few weeks back and are very pleased with it.
>
> -- 
> Regards,
> David
>
> Please reply to News Group
>

If there is a branch near you, a visit to Richer Sounds might prove 
worthwhile .

They stock LCD TVs from Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Philips, Sony, Hitachi & 
Sharp.  (For currrent range, see http://www.richersounds.co.uk/).

No hard sell.  Just competitive prices and good service.  The staff in 
my local store are always very helpful.

Adrian A wrote:
> winker wrote:
>> diy-newby wrote:
>>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
>>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
>>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source
>>> of the picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality
>>> feeds to the tv's?
>> Because they're a bunch of dicks.
> 
> Shirly they're not all called Richard?


No! Dick, not Richard nor Shirly. Sometimes they've been know to answer 
to "dipstick" and "fuckwit".

Mike

Paul Martin  wrote:
>In article ,
>	diy-newby wrote:
>
>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>>
>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>>
>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
>> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
>> tv's?
>
>If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
>to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
>DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.
>

I asked them that once.  No, they couldn't, because everything was 
*chained down*!  With chains.  The sales person thought it was 
stupid too.  YMMV!

dom.

This is my standard reply to questions like this ...

Take some DVDs (*) around the stores and ask to see them played on the 
most promising sets.  This will give direct comparisons both between 
those in the shop and with the current set at home, then make a decision 
on what the eyes (and the wallet) say.

*  Hire some if necessary  -  I suggest a good mix of 3 - 5 including at 
least:
1) To check colour balance, one natural history and one sitcom or reality
show (for human flesh tones indoors);
2) For interlacing and movement, some action shots such as the latest
blockbuster that takes the fancy, and some interlaced sport action.
3) Any thing else commonly watched at home.
4) Perhaps something containing dark scenes for assessing contrast ratio.

Also turn the set onto BBC News 24 or Sky News for how it shows poor 
quality material such as news clips.  This will show up much more clearly 
on expensive sets such as LCDs, and, although it's strictly the 
material's fault rather than the TV's, if a more expensive set just shows 
the blemishes in the signal more clearly for most of what you view, that 
constitutes a valid reason not to spend the extra money.  It's easier to 
justify an expensive set if you are going to be watching a lot of good 
source material such as DVDs.

"diy-newby"  wrote in
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net: 

> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up
> on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26"
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.

David wrote:
> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.   

They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) 
Samsung keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.

Owain

"Owain"  wrote in message 
news:1180473156.24867.2@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> David wrote:
>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>
> They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) Samsung 
> keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.


lol - i can imagine samsung throwing all the lcds that fail QA into a pile 
for sony or panasonic to buy - and those companies happily purchasing them!



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

On Tue, 29 May 2007 22:25:46 +0100, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:

>
>"Owain"  wrote in message 
>news:1180473156.24867.2@proxy00.news.clara.net...
>> David wrote:
>>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>>
>> They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) Samsung 
>> keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.
>
>
>lol - i can imagine samsung throwing all the lcds that fail QA into a pile 
>for sony or panasonic to buy - and those companies happily purchasing them!


I wouldn't be surprised if they sold them to Vestel.

I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
for the purpose of'.

Graham C

In article <f3hnkk$apl$1@news.datemas.de>,
	Bob Lucas wrote:

> If there is a branch near you, a visit to Richer Sounds might prove 
> worthwhile .

> They stock LCD TVs from Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Philips, Sony, Hitachi & 
> Sharp.  (For currrent range, see http://www.richersounds.co.uk/).

> No hard sell.  Just competitive prices and good service.  The staff in 
> my local store are always very helpful. 

I can happily praise Richer Sounds. I bought a pair of shop-soiled
floor-standing Kef speakers before Christmas, got them home, and found
one of the set was very badly scratched.

I took it back to the shop two days later. The staff apologised and
found me the best example from the store room to replace it. The pair
of speakers I ended up having would be hard to tell from new units,
with only a few very fine scratches on their bases, something that
would happen anyway after a few months.

-- 
Paul Martin

In message , Owain 
 wrote
>David wrote:
>> I think Samsung might make CRT/ Screens for other makers.
>
>They do, but (according to the demo person on QVC the other night) 
>Samsung keep the best quality panels for their own-branded products.
>

Yep,  the QVC salesman is your friend and he is doing you a favour by 
selling to you :)

 From what I've seen most of the presenters are well outside of their 
comfort zone when talking about anything technical and their guests 
often talk b******t about rubbish they are selling.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

Better still, go to a good , independant TV dealer who will know about
the sets he or she sells, who will demonstrate them properly and
install them to give their very best. Yes, you may pay a bit more but
you will get a much better deal overall and they will be there for you
if you have a problem. The only reason that the big stores exist is
that people go to them thinking that they are getting a good deal. You
only have to look at the comments on the forums to see that they don't
know what they are selling and the sales children have little or no
knowledge of installation, setting up or real performance.

Whilst on the subject, beware, some of the highest profit making items
on sale in the big stores are the add-ons. Scart leads, wall brackets
and switch boxes.

Last week I was asked to fit a 23" LCD TV flat on the wall. The
customer had bought the set at Currys and the salesperson had sold her
two very high-priced gold plated, thick scart leads to connect her
Tescos DVD player and Alba VCR and also a £110 wall bracket saying it
was the right one for the job.
We used a £9.99 flat-to-the-wall bracket and 2 good quality flat
screened scart leads for £6 each. (Her Sky box already had a scart
lead.)
The total job, including TV sale, from us including lnstallation
labour and setting up would have been considerably less than she was
going to pay altogether AND we would have sold her a model of TV which
could have been controlled with the Sky remote handset. The one she
had been sold could not although she had told them that she had Sky.

This is a LG/Philips LCD

http://uk.aldi.com/sunday_special_buys/sunday_special_buys_pid_54092.html

3 year guarantee

On May 29, 8:07 pm, Dominic  wrote:
> Paul Martin  wrote:
> >In article ,
> >    diy-newby wrote:
>
> >> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
> >>news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> >>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>
> >>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
> >>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>
> >> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the
> >> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the
> >> tv's?
>
> >If you ask, I'm sure they'll happily connect a DVD to one of the sets
> >to demonstrate it. I've had them do that in the past. I brought along a
> >DVD of test patterns that I'd made myself.
>
> I asked them that once.  No, they couldn't, because everything was
> *chained down*!  With chains.  The sales person thought it was
> stupid too.  YMMV!
>
> dom.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Graham C"  wrote in message 
news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
>
> I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
> to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
> around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
> for the purpose of'.

I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?

Roger R

In article ,
   Roger R  wrote:

> "Graham C"  wrote in message 
> news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
> >
> > I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
> > to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
> > around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
> > for the purpose of'.

> I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
> Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?


I always understood that the 5W Sinclair amp/chip was made for them by
Texas Instruments who refused to put their name on them.  I don't think
"unfit for purpose" existed at the time of Sinclair.

-- 
Nomad Theatre, East Horsley, Surrey

www.nomadtheatre.com

"Roger R"  wrote in message .
>
> I think I remember that, or was it all a dream?
> Top brands wouldn't really do a thing like that...would they?
>

An electronics firm near me run out of a compoment, due to rejecting many of 
them, so in order to full the order used the rejected ones.


-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

wrote in message 
news:1180629435.480918.258050@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Better still, go to a good , independant TV dealer who will know about
the sets he or she sells, who will demonstrate them properly and
install them to give their very best......
[snip]
.......The total job, including TV sale, from us......

An completely objective opinion then.

(I'm inclined to agree though)

Roger R

>
> An completely objective opinion then.
>
> (I'm inclined to agree though)
>
> Roger R

I am biased, obviously, but I see it all the time and quite
interestingly, people seem to enjoy telling me how badly they have
been treated by the big stores. I cant really understand this one. I
think I would tend to keep quiet about it if I had been to one of
them, received less than perfect advice or service and still bought
from them.

wrote in message 
news:1180741501.448054.5350@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I am biased, obviously, but I see it all the time and quite
> interestingly, people seem to enjoy telling me how badly they have
> been treated by the big stores. I cant really understand this one. I
> think I would tend to keep quiet about it if I had been to one of
> them, received less than perfect advice or service and still bought
> from them.
>

Perhaps that's because they see the failure as the stores fault and not 
their own for making the wrong decision about where to buy.   And they think 
that by subsequently blackening the store/your competitor they are 
demonstrating to you how much wiser they are now and perhaps you will be 
more favourably disposed to give them a good deal/service.

Roger R

> Perhaps that's because they see the failure as the stores fault and not
> their own for making the wrong decision about where to buy.   And they think
> that by subsequently blackening the store/your competitor they are
> demonstrating to you how much wiser they are now and perhaps you will be
> more favourably disposed to give them a good deal/service.
>
> Roger R

I hope we would anyway. Really I think it is all about being as honest
as possible when asked for an opinion or to give a demo. I have even
been known to send a prospective customer to a competitor for a
particular piece of equipment if I feel it would suit them better than
something we sell. At least it builds up trust and we will probably
see them again later for something else or to do an installatioin.
I would say though, that a big problem for the independant dealer
trying to give the best service and advice, is the customer who uses a
great deal of our time and facilities and then goes elsewhere to buy.
This is always likely to happen but it has already lead to the demise
of the majority of small dealers  and just perpetuates the domination
of the chain stores. One wonders what happens when the last small
dealers close down and there is no one left to sort out and connect up
the haphazard mess of equipment that many people seem to collect.

Talking about the poor quality feeds which many stores have to their
demo TV's:
I wandered into Commet in a nearby town around Christmas 18 months
ago. On one side of an isle they had a collection of "HD Ready" LCD
and plasma TV's and on the other side they had the rest of the LCD's
and plasma's.
All of the sets on the "HD" side were fed from an HD source via
component cables and were showing recent HD football (Great quality,
of course).
The "non HD" isle were showing an old football match which was
obviously recorded in VHS quality (Definitely on tape or copied from
tape) and all of the sets were connected with RF aerial cables ONLY!
I am sure this must have come very close to mis-selling. I stayed
around for a bit and listened to customers and it was obvious that
none of them had the slightest idea about anything but what they saw
on the screen. The salesman seemed pretty busy demonstrating the
difference in quality.

A lot of what you guys say  -  the way chain stores rig their demos, the
ridiculous price of extras, etc  -   is fair comment, but in the end there
is no substitute for the customer being well informed.

From the customer's point of view, however, it's very difficult to get hold
of the relevant information.  As I have recently shown in another thread ...
    http://tinyurl.com/27ajfd
    ... standing in for ...
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/browse_thread/thread/2c685270eed0b750/dfb22a5b9d5794ce?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#dfb22a5b9d5794ce
.... even making a rational choice of a new kettle is more complex than might
at first appear, and in that thread the group seemed to agree with me that
information posted on a manufacturer's website is just plain wrong, in that
it runs contrary to the laws of physics!

Within the last year or so, I've also looked at a replacement midi stereo
for my bedroom/office, and a replacement soundcard for my PC, and not a
single one of the units I looked at had technical specifications such as
Frequency Response, Signal-To-Noise Ratio, or Total Harmonic Distortion,
anywhere in the accompanying literature, though a few were available on
websites, and I obtained one or two more by emailing manufacturers.  AFAICR,
such a situation would have been unthinkable in my youth, and at very least
I simply wouldn't have bought anything where such specifications were not
given.

When you consider the above, and also consider some of the pseudo-science
that has been put forward to bolster entrenched thinking, even in
uk.tech.digital-tv, a technical ng where one has a right to expect
independent rationality, then I regret I wouldn't trust even an
'independent' 'expert'.

Hence my advice aimed at giving the OP some independent means of directly
comparing sets, though I accept that it's true that:

1)    Between stores, different DVD players, and the way they are connected
to the TVs  -  RGB/CV/RF - are also implicitly being compared.

2)    It's becoming obsolete to use DVDs for such a comparison because they
are SD.  However, I'm not sure how many suitable HD format disks the average
punter could obtain for such a comparison, and how many stores could mount a
demo with the particular one of competing formats a customer might bring in,
while DVDs are at any rate commonly available and still a better source than
most SD broadcast feeds (though the shots of the Namib desert in the last
Natural World "Desert Lions" were breathtaking, even on five year old SD
equipment   -  Panasonic 22" LCD fed via RGB from a Dreambox satellite
decoder).

I dread anything going wrong these days.  Design, looks, and hype triumph
over fact and functionality at every turn, and finding an adequate
replacement for the simplest thing has become an obstacle course.  I can't
even get jeans that fit me because of my height.  I had to wait to go into
town for other reasons to get a refill for a decent biro.  I had to buy a
replacement battery for my mobile on-line, because all the local stores want
to do is sell you a new one with a call package.

(-: Wanders of into the sunset muttering something in a pseudo-Yorkshire
brogue to the effect:  "Eee!  When I were a young 'un ..." :-)

 wrote in message
news:1180827441.515786.199880@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>

> > "Roger R"  wrote in message
news:1180778906.1422.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> >

>I dread anything going wrong these days.  Design, looks, and hype triumph
>over fact and functionality at every turn, and finding an adequate
>replacement for the simplest thing has become an obstacle course.  I can't
>even get jeans that fit me because of my height.  I had to wait to go into
>town for other reasons to get a refill for a decent biro.  I had to buy a
>replacement battery for my mobile on-line, because all the local stores want
>to do is sell you a new one with a call package.
>
>(-: Wanders of into the sunset muttering something in a pseudo-Yorkshire
>brogue to the effect:  "Eee!  When I were a young 'un ..." :-)

Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
service!....

How many times do you get the request "where can I get a whatever at the
lowest possible PRICE" ?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In message , tony sayer 
 wrote


>Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
>service!....

What after sales service would you need with consumer products if you 
were just replacing the older version with something newer?


-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:38:54 +0100, membership
 wrote:

>In article ,
>   Roger R  wrote:
>
>> "Graham C"  wrote in message 
>> news:or8p53hr7scnmu9bi4mh5lq4hk76975lod@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > I know many years ago Plessey sold reject 2 watt audio amplifier chips
>> > to Sinclair who resold them as 5 watt amplifiers with a mark up of
>> > around 2000% knowing that probably half would be returned as 'unfit
>> > for the purpose of'.
>
>I always understood that the 5W Sinclair amp/chip was made for them by
>Texas Instruments who refused to put their name on them.  I don't think
>"unfit for purpose" existed at the time of Sinclair.

I still have a few of these left - they were of two types one had two
metal tabs to which the heatsink would be attached.  The other had a
2BA bolt sticking out of it for the same purpose.  They were
definitely Plessey as my mate gave them to me - he left Sinclair's
employment and went on to work for Plessey in Swindon.

The Plessey spec was something like :
0.3 % THD at 1 W, 
2.5% THD at 2 W, 
hence you can guess the distortion at 5 watts !

Re 'unfit for the purpose of' he told me that the biggest problem in
working for Sinclair in Cambridge, was getting through the front door
in the morning.  If the post had already been you couldn't open the
front door owing to the huge mound of returns on the other side.

G.

In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
 writes
>In message , tony sayer 
> wrote
>
>
>>Well its what the public wants.. low prices and sod any after sales and
>>service!....
>
>What after sales service would you need with consumer products if you 
>were just replacing the older version with something newer?
>
>

Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
when your buying it..


-- 
Tony Sayer

In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
 wrote
>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
> writes
>
>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>when your buying it..

Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
extended warranty.

The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article , Alan
 writes
>In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> wrote
>>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
>> writes
>>
>>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>>when your buying it..
>
>Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
>you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
>extended warranty.
>
>The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
>goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
>

Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher. 

And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.

Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Alan
>  writes
> >In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> > wrote
> >>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
> >> writes
> >>
> >>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
> >>when your buying it..
> >
> >Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
> >you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
> >extended warranty.
> >
> >The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
> >goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
> >

> Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
> were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
> who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
> an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher. 

> And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.

> Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
> the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....

and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
said she hadn't noticed ;-(

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"charles"  wrote in message 
news:4eed5ce167charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> In article ,
>   tony sayer  wrote:
>> In article , Alan
>>  writes
>> >In message <O+UQBeHLGxYGFww5@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
>> > wrote
>> >>In article <$YpMaKJs1vYGFw10@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
>> >> writes
>> >>
>> >>Don't suppose you would but don't expect much in the way of good advice
>> >>when your buying it..
>> >
>> >Who needs the advice of shop salespeople? They will only attempt to flog
>> >you the items with the greatest profit margin and then an unnecessary
>> >extended warranty.
>> >
>> >The only advantage  shopping in a local store is that you can get the
>> >goods immediately without having to wait for delivery.
>> >
>
>> Well years ago when I was in the TV trade I reckon that overall pictures
>> were much better then what they are today, as you had a trained engineer
>> who knew what the picture was supposed to look like and we insisted that
>> an efficient aerial be used and overall standards were higher.
>
>> And today piss poor set up TV's showing nothing like they can do!.
>
>> Two of our neighbours using indoor aerials with very mixed results and
>> the widescreen that the other has all over the place!....
>
> and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
> said she hadn't noticed ;-(
>
> -- 
> From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
>
> Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
>

In my experience TWMBO (the collective noun for SWMBO :-) very rarely do - 
especially when it's a 4:3 stretched to 16:9.  Personally I believe it is a 
genetically inherited defence mechanism designed to thwart our arguments for 
spending megabucks on an even bigger and better one before we even open our 
mouths......................

In article ,
	charles wrote:

> and I just found SWMBO watching dttv with the picture in 4:3 mode.  She
> said she hadn't noticed ;-(

"This week Charles Hope will be visiting the living room and meeting
representatives of the household." :-)

-- 
Paul Martin

diy-newby wrote:
:: Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up
:: on the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26"
:: Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has
:: since been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of
:: the best on the market.
::
:: Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?
::
:: TIA

Panasonic every time (as long as its the 600/700 not 60/70 range) I have the 
600 series 32" lcd, its superb, got that after 2 months review hunting of 
all the 32" lcd's available, and then some 2 hours comparing in John 
Lewis's, got John Lewis to price match (was listed at £1300, got it for 
£999) and they chuck in a 5 year warranty, get yourself over to av forums 
and ask around, most helpful bunch of people http://www.avforums.com/

HTH


-- 
daZza
mr.dazza@"BUT_PLUG"gmail.com
(remove "BUT_PLUG" to reply)
*www.thekellyhouse.co.uk*

Java Jive wrote in message ...

>As I have recently shown in another thread ...
>    http://tinyurl.com/27ajfd
>    ... standing in for ...
>http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/browse_thread/thread/2c68
5270eed0b750/dfb22a5b9d5794ce?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#dfb22a5b9d5794ce
>... even making a rational choice of a new kettle is more complex than
might
>at first appear, and in that thread the group seemed to agree with me that
>information posted on a manufacturer's website is just plain wrong, in that
>it runs contrary to the laws of physics!

check out the first post from this link

mk5000

"if I never see your face again.  I don't mind cause we've gone much farther
than I thought we'd go tonigh"--maroon 5

"diy-newby"  wrote in message 
news:VbCdnUMYh82Lp8HbnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Looking to purchase my first LCD tv.  I thought I had my mind set up on 
> the Samsung LE37M87BDX (Full 1080p).  But, my dad has a small 26" 
> Panasonic LCD and the quality of the picture is fantastic.  He has since 
> been told that the Panasonic LCD's are very very good, one of the best on 
> the market.
>
> Anyone have any comments on either brand of TV?
>
> TIA

Samsung are a major manufacturer of LCD panels, Panasonic AFAIK are not - 
they use other manufacturers panels, possibly even Samsung.

Samsung panels are also used by Dell for their range of computer monitors.

OK so I am biased, I also have a Samsung 24" 244T 1920x1200 monitor which is 
defect free and I am very happy with.

The Samsung M87 series has a gloss screen which may not be to everyone's 
taste as under certain conditions can give you unwanted reflections. Under 
the correct lighting conditions though the panels give an outstanding 
(quoted >10,000:1) contrast ratio and a genuine useable 170 degree viewing 
angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.

Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

"Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
 angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>
> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.

Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
tv's?

diy-newby wrote:
> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message 
> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the 
>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source of the 
> picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality feeds to the 
> tv's?

Because they're a bunch of dicks.

winker wrote:
> diy-newby wrote:
>> "Icky Thwacket"  wrote in message
>> news:465c420e$0$8745$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>  angle, and the best yet colour rendition I have seen for a LCD.
>>> Go along to your local Comet/Currys etc and have a look. Compare the
>>> Panasonic and Samsung offerings and then make up your mind.
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Only thing with Comet/Curry's etc, the source
>> of the picture is always crap.  Why can't they get some nice quality
>>