thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
are they good??

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
> are they good??
>

I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
Currys or Dixons or someplace.
The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are flush 
and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station which 
soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from charging 
easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same remote and he 
had the same problems.

The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
all other remotes (as a pronto does).
If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in one 
room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on hand 
for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.

I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.

I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.

 -Kevin.

-- 
http://www.ooyay.com/theoriesandthings/
....theories, things, caption competitions...

"Gunther Gloop"  wrote in message 
news:57vmfuF2ed938U1@mid.individual.net...
> "ady2007©"  wrote in message 
> news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 
>> but are they good??
>>
>
> I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
> the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
> Currys or Dixons or someplace.
> The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are 
> flush and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station 
> which soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from 
> charging easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same 
> remote and he had the same problems.
>
> The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
> all other remotes (as a pronto does).
> If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in 
> one room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on 
> hand for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.
>
> I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.
>
> I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.
>
> -Kevin.
>
cheers kev the harmony 895 arrived this morning and was up and running 
inside 10 mins... so its not all bad
i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
what pronto are you using?

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:76tTh.917$NZ2.697@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
> what pronto are you using?


RU890
It's old now and looks it, but it's still the best remote I've had by far.
2nd best was the Marantz 2000 MK3 (actually not sure if that's the model, 
but it's something like that). The top-heavy one.
That worked nicely (eventually), but broke some years ago.

I really don't see any Pronto-beaters out there in that price bracket, which 
is strange as it's really old technology nowadays and the market is bigger 
than ever. All the good-looking ones seem to have too many quirky issues, 
annoying fiddlynesses and silly-but-necessary work-arounds.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

ady2007© wrote:
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.

Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

Leela: You went to college?
Bender: Of course. I'm a bender. I went to Bending College; I majored
in Bending. Fry: What was your minor?
Bender: Robo-American Studies.

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
> ady2007© wrote:
>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>
> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
> Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>


Flexibility.
The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) require.
I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task (and/or 
by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).

There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
do it, then it does it without issue.

 -Kevin

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
> with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
> do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> -Kevin
>

agree 100%
its a cracking remote that is missing a decent technical side!
the way you tell the website the make & model is fine but
it would be nice to have a user inter face to tweak there pre
defined settings.
also I don't like the big brother thing that if any thing happens to 
Logitech
in the future how will you be able to add more functions to your remote?
although this would not have put me off buying the remote in the first
place if I had known about it before hand.

ady

Gunther Gloop wrote:
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
> it to do it, then it does it without issue.

Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a bit 
slow.

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

"Oh, great, a one-way street! How does that work if I'm going
 backwards?" -- Francis, Malcolm in the Middle

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fjgpF2gped8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunther Gloop wrote:
>>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>>
>> Flexibility.
>> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
>> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
>> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
>> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
>> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>>
>> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
>> it to do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
> seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
> activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
> crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a 
> bit slow.
>


The one thing that could save the Harmony product-line is if they had 
user-defineable macros -ie. press one button while in one activity to do a 
number of things.
Macros are not a feature on any Harmony (that I've seen/ heard of).

The 885 has a button to allows you setup/select various digital channels 
from the screen on the remote. You can download real channel logos to 
display in this screen. It looks nice, but is made pointless (IMO) by the 
fact you have to click that initial button to show the channels first, then 
go look for the specific channel on the remote's screen. It's easier to just 
press the (3) numbers, or press the Favourites button. !

But if that button lead the user to a list of MACROS, then it could be very 
interesting ...and Harmony-saving! ...but it doesnt', so it's not.  :(

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 21:57:56 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
> news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ady2007© wrote:
>>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>> 
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with 
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>> 
> 
> 
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't 
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
> 
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it 
> to do it, then it does it without issue.

I've had Harmony Remotes for about 3 1/2 years since getting shot of my 
MX500 (which itself replaced a Pronto) and I've never looked back. I'm 
not sure what 'niggly bits' I don't have, but my 525 manages a sat box, 
lcd tv, freeview pvr, home cinema amp, dvd player, dvd recorder, X10 
lighting and Xbox with no trouble at all. So much so that my original 
remotes are probably full of leaky batteries as they've been shut in a 
drawer for so long.

What i will concede is that the Harmony requires every bit as much 
careful attention in the setup as a Pronto. If you run into problems, 
the customer support is superb and they will assist on a bespoke basis 
if you request it.

The colour screen Harmonys are nice but they are no better in 
functionality than the cheaper models.

So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).


-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>


I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)

So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right and 
there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but honestly 
it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.

....One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that device 
first.
My Marantz used to have the same issue.
Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the (very 
good) Harmony support. But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that 
regularly occur, some more 'serious' than others.
They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "5605"  wrote in message 
> news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
>> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
>> didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
>> task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>> 
> 
> 
> I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
> ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)
> 
> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)

> 
> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be 
> right and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, 
> but honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for 
> me.

No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood 
the Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device 
based. You're so last century Kelvin (sic)

> 
> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), 
> it fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
> device first.
> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
> (very good) Harmony support.

I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the 
code has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes 
they had updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean 
form. I've never looked back.


>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, 
> some more 'serious' than others.
> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
> 
>  -Kevin.

If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies 
your continued support of the Pronto.

-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041612103416807-not@chancecom...
> On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:
>> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)
>
> Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)
>

Now now. No call for that young man!


>> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right 
>> and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but 
>> honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.
>
> No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood the 
> Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device based. 
> You're so last century Kelvin (sic)
>

I understood that too. And have always set up my multi-remotes (including 
Pronto and Harmonys) in that way, Playtrick. (sic)


>> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
>> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
>> fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
>> device first.
>> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
>> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
>> (very good) Harmony support.
>
> I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
> Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the code 
> has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes they had 
> updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean form. I've never 
> looked back.
>
>>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, some 
>> more 'serious' than others.
>> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
>> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
>>
> If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
> address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies your 
> continued support of the Pronto.
>

Well at least my Pronto support is justified. :)
I gave my point of view. I have no problem with you putting yours. I don't 
deny you've had your issues solved for you.

Going to the bother of explaining things like that to customer support and 
waiting 45 minutes or so for them to sort it out (if possible) is nice for 
some. I prefer to have the power to do it myself. Who knows what future 
issues may arise with future products?

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
> are they good??
>

I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
Currys or Dixons or someplace.
The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are flush 
and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station which 
soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from charging 
easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same remote and he 
had the same problems.

The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
all other remotes (as a pronto does).
If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in one 
room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on hand 
for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.

I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.

I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.

 -Kevin.

-- 
http://www.ooyay.com/theoriesandthings/
....theories, things, caption competitions...

"Gunther Gloop"  wrote in message 
news:57vmfuF2ed938U1@mid.individual.net...
> "ady2007©"  wrote in message 
> news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 
>> but are they good??
>>
>
> I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
> the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
> Currys or Dixons or someplace.
> The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are 
> flush and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station 
> which soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from 
> charging easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same 
> remote and he had the same problems.
>
> The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
> all other remotes (as a pronto does).
> If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in 
> one room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on 
> hand for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.
>
> I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.
>
> I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.
>
> -Kevin.
>
cheers kev the harmony 895 arrived this morning and was up and running 
inside 10 mins... so its not all bad
i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
what pronto are you using?

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:76tTh.917$NZ2.697@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
> what pronto are you using?


RU890
It's old now and looks it, but it's still the best remote I've had by far.
2nd best was the Marantz 2000 MK3 (actually not sure if that's the model, 
but it's something like that). The top-heavy one.
That worked nicely (eventually), but broke some years ago.

I really don't see any Pronto-beaters out there in that price bracket, which 
is strange as it's really old technology nowadays and the market is bigger 
than ever. All the good-looking ones seem to have too many quirky issues, 
annoying fiddlynesses and silly-but-necessary work-arounds.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

ady2007© wrote:
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.

Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

Leela: You went to college?
Bender: Of course. I'm a bender. I went to Bending College; I majored
in Bending. Fry: What was your minor?
Bender: Robo-American Studies.

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
> ady2007© wrote:
>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>
> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
> Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>


Flexibility.
The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) require.
I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task (and/or 
by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).

There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
do it, then it does it without issue.

 -Kevin

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
> with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
> do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> -Kevin
>

agree 100%
its a cracking remote that is missing a decent technical side!
the way you tell the website the make & model is fine but
it would be nice to have a user inter face to tweak there pre
defined settings.
also I don't like the big brother thing that if any thing happens to 
Logitech
in the future how will you be able to add more functions to your remote?
although this would not have put me off buying the remote in the first
place if I had known about it before hand.

ady

Gunther Gloop wrote:
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
> it to do it, then it does it without issue.

Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a bit 
slow.

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

"Oh, great, a one-way street! How does that work if I'm going
 backwards?" -- Francis, Malcolm in the Middle

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fjgpF2gped8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunther Gloop wrote:
>>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>>
>> Flexibility.
>> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
>> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
>> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
>> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
>> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>>
>> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
>> it to do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
> seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
> activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
> crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a 
> bit slow.
>


The one thing that could save the Harmony product-line is if they had 
user-defineable macros -ie. press one button while in one activity to do a 
number of things.
Macros are not a feature on any Harmony (that I've seen/ heard of).

The 885 has a button to allows you setup/select various digital channels 
from the screen on the remote. You can download real channel logos to 
display in this screen. It looks nice, but is made pointless (IMO) by the 
fact you have to click that initial button to show the channels first, then 
go look for the specific channel on the remote's screen. It's easier to just 
press the (3) numbers, or press the Favourites button. !

But if that button lead the user to a list of MACROS, then it could be very 
interesting ...and Harmony-saving! ...but it doesnt', so it's not.  :(

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 21:57:56 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
> news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ady2007© wrote:
>>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>> 
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with 
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>> 
> 
> 
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't 
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
> 
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it 
> to do it, then it does it without issue.

I've had Harmony Remotes for about 3 1/2 years since getting shot of my 
MX500 (which itself replaced a Pronto) and I've never looked back. I'm 
not sure what 'niggly bits' I don't have, but my 525 manages a sat box, 
lcd tv, freeview pvr, home cinema amp, dvd player, dvd recorder, X10 
lighting and Xbox with no trouble at all. So much so that my original 
remotes are probably full of leaky batteries as they've been shut in a 
drawer for so long.

What i will concede is that the Harmony requires every bit as much 
careful attention in the setup as a Pronto. If you run into problems, 
the customer support is superb and they will assist on a bespoke basis 
if you request it.

The colour screen Harmonys are nice but they are no better in 
functionality than the cheaper models.

So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).


-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>


I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)

So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right and 
there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but honestly 
it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.

....One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that device 
first.
My Marantz used to have the same issue.
Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the (very 
good) Harmony support. But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that 
regularly occur, some more 'serious' than others.
They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "5605"  wrote in message 
> news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
>> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
>> didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
>> task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>> 
> 
> 
> I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
> ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)
> 
> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)

> 
> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be 
> right and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, 
> but honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for 
> me.

No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood 
the Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device 
based. You're so last century Kelvin (sic)

> 
> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), 
> it fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
> device first.
> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
> (very good) Harmony support.

I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the 
code has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes 
they had updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean 
form. I've never looked back.


>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, 
> some more 'serious' than others.
> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
> 
>  -Kevin.

If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies 
your continued support of the Pronto.

-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041612103416807-not@chancecom...
> On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:
>> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)
>
> Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)
>

Now now. No call for that young man!


>> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right 
>> and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but 
>> honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.
>
> No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood the 
> Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device based. 
> You're so last century Kelvin (sic)
>

I understood that too. And have always set up my multi-remotes (including 
Pronto and Harmonys) in that way, Playtrick. (sic)


>> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
>> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
>> fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
>> device first.
>> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
>> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
>> (very good) Harmony support.
>
> I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
> Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the code 
> has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes they had 
> updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean form. I've never 
> looked back.
>
>>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, some 
>> more 'serious' than others.
>> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
>> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
>>
> If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
> address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies your 
> continued support of the Pronto.
>

Well at least my Pronto support is justified. :)
I gave my point of view. I have no problem with you putting yours. I don't 
deny you've had your issues solved for you.

Going to the bother of explaining things like that to customer support and 
waiting 45 minutes or so for them to sort it out (if possible) is nice for 
some. I prefer to have the power to do it myself. Who knows what future 
issues may arise with future products?

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
> are they good??
>

I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
Currys or Dixons or someplace.
The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are flush 
and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station which 
soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from charging 
easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same remote and he 
had the same problems.

The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
all other remotes (as a pronto does).
If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in one 
room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on hand 
for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.

I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.

I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.

 -Kevin.

-- 
http://www.ooyay.com/theoriesandthings/
....theories, things, caption competitions...

"Gunther Gloop"  wrote in message 
news:57vmfuF2ed938U1@mid.individual.net...
> "ady2007©"  wrote in message 
> news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 
>> but are they good??
>>
>
> I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
> the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
> Currys or Dixons or someplace.
> The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are 
> flush and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station 
> which soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from 
> charging easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same 
> remote and he had the same problems.
>
> The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
> all other remotes (as a pronto does).
> If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in 
> one room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on 
> hand for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.
>
> I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.
>
> I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.
>
> -Kevin.
>
cheers kev the harmony 895 arrived this morning and was up and running 
inside 10 mins... so its not all bad
i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
what pronto are you using?

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:76tTh.917$NZ2.697@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
> what pronto are you using?


RU890
It's old now and looks it, but it's still the best remote I've had by far.
2nd best was the Marantz 2000 MK3 (actually not sure if that's the model, 
but it's something like that). The top-heavy one.
That worked nicely (eventually), but broke some years ago.

I really don't see any Pronto-beaters out there in that price bracket, which 
is strange as it's really old technology nowadays and the market is bigger 
than ever. All the good-looking ones seem to have too many quirky issues, 
annoying fiddlynesses and silly-but-necessary work-arounds.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

ady2007© wrote:
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.

Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

Leela: You went to college?
Bender: Of course. I'm a bender. I went to Bending College; I majored
in Bending. Fry: What was your minor?
Bender: Robo-American Studies.

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
> ady2007© wrote:
>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>
> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
> Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>


Flexibility.
The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) require.
I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task (and/or 
by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).

There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
do it, then it does it without issue.

 -Kevin

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
> with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
> do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> -Kevin
>

agree 100%
its a cracking remote that is missing a decent technical side!
the way you tell the website the make & model is fine but
it would be nice to have a user inter face to tweak there pre
defined settings.
also I don't like the big brother thing that if any thing happens to 
Logitech
in the future how will you be able to add more functions to your remote?
although this would not have put me off buying the remote in the first
place if I had known about it before hand.

ady

Gunther Gloop wrote:
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
> it to do it, then it does it without issue.

Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a bit 
slow.

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

"Oh, great, a one-way street! How does that work if I'm going
 backwards?" -- Francis, Malcolm in the Middle

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fjgpF2gped8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunther Gloop wrote:
>>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>>
>> Flexibility.
>> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
>> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
>> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
>> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
>> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>>
>> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
>> it to do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
> seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
> activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
> crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a 
> bit slow.
>


The one thing that could save the Harmony product-line is if they had 
user-defineable macros -ie. press one button while in one activity to do a 
number of things.
Macros are not a feature on any Harmony (that I've seen/ heard of).

The 885 has a button to allows you setup/select various digital channels 
from the screen on the remote. You can download real channel logos to 
display in this screen. It looks nice, but is made pointless (IMO) by the 
fact you have to click that initial button to show the channels first, then 
go look for the specific channel on the remote's screen. It's easier to just 
press the (3) numbers, or press the Favourites button. !

But if that button lead the user to a list of MACROS, then it could be very 
interesting ...and Harmony-saving! ...but it doesnt', so it's not.  :(

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 21:57:56 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
> news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ady2007© wrote:
>>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>> 
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with 
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>> 
> 
> 
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't 
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
> 
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it 
> to do it, then it does it without issue.

I've had Harmony Remotes for about 3 1/2 years since getting shot of my 
MX500 (which itself replaced a Pronto) and I've never looked back. I'm 
not sure what 'niggly bits' I don't have, but my 525 manages a sat box, 
lcd tv, freeview pvr, home cinema amp, dvd player, dvd recorder, X10 
lighting and Xbox with no trouble at all. So much so that my original 
remotes are probably full of leaky batteries as they've been shut in a 
drawer for so long.

What i will concede is that the Harmony requires every bit as much 
careful attention in the setup as a Pronto. If you run into problems, 
the customer support is superb and they will assist on a bespoke basis 
if you request it.

The colour screen Harmonys are nice but they are no better in 
functionality than the cheaper models.

So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).


-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>


I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)

So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right and 
there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but honestly 
it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.

....One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that device 
first.
My Marantz used to have the same issue.
Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the (very 
good) Harmony support. But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that 
regularly occur, some more 'serious' than others.
They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "5605"  wrote in message 
> news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
>> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
>> didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
>> task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>> 
> 
> 
> I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
> ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)
> 
> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)

> 
> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be 
> right and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, 
> but honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for 
> me.

No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood 
the Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device 
based. You're so last century Kelvin (sic)

> 
> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), 
> it fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
> device first.
> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
> (very good) Harmony support.

I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the 
code has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes 
they had updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean 
form. I've never looked back.


>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, 
> some more 'serious' than others.
> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
> 
>  -Kevin.

If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies 
your continued support of the Pronto.

-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041612103416807-not@chancecom...
> On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:
>> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)
>
> Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)
>

Now now. No call for that young man!


>> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right 
>> and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but 
>> honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.
>
> No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood the 
> Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device based. 
> You're so last century Kelvin (sic)
>

I understood that too. And have always set up my multi-remotes (including 
Pronto and Harmonys) in that way, Playtrick. (sic)


>> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
>> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
>> fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
>> device first.
>> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
>> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
>> (very good) Harmony support.
>
> I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
> Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the code 
> has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes they had 
> updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean form. I've never 
> looked back.
>
>>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, some 
>> more 'serious' than others.
>> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
>> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
>>
> If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
> address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies your 
> continued support of the Pronto.
>

Well at least my Pronto support is justified. :)
I gave my point of view. I have no problem with you putting yours. I don't 
deny you've had your issues solved for you.

Going to the bother of explaining things like that to customer support and 
waiting 45 minutes or so for them to sort it out (if possible) is nice for 
some. I prefer to have the power to do it myself. Who knows what future 
issues may arise with future products?

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
> are they good??
>

I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
Currys or Dixons or someplace.
The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are flush 
and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station which 
soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from charging 
easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same remote and he 
had the same problems.

The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
all other remotes (as a pronto does).
If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in one 
room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on hand 
for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.

I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.

I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.

 -Kevin.

-- 
http://www.ooyay.com/theoriesandthings/
....theories, things, caption competitions...

"Gunther Gloop"  wrote in message 
news:57vmfuF2ed938U1@mid.individual.net...
> "ady2007©"  wrote in message 
> news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 
>> but are they good??
>>
>
> I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
> the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
> Currys or Dixons or someplace.
> The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are 
> flush and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station 
> which soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from 
> charging easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same 
> remote and he had the same problems.
>
> The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
> all other remotes (as a pronto does).
> If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in 
> one room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on 
> hand for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.
>
> I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.
>
> I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.
>
> -Kevin.
>
cheers kev the harmony 895 arrived this morning and was up and running 
inside 10 mins... so its not all bad
i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
what pronto are you using?

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:76tTh.917$NZ2.697@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
> what pronto are you using?


RU890
It's old now and looks it, but it's still the best remote I've had by far.
2nd best was the Marantz 2000 MK3 (actually not sure if that's the model, 
but it's something like that). The top-heavy one.
That worked nicely (eventually), but broke some years ago.

I really don't see any Pronto-beaters out there in that price bracket, which 
is strange as it's really old technology nowadays and the market is bigger 
than ever. All the good-looking ones seem to have too many quirky issues, 
annoying fiddlynesses and silly-but-necessary work-arounds.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

ady2007© wrote:
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.

Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

Leela: You went to college?
Bender: Of course. I'm a bender. I went to Bending College; I majored
in Bending. Fry: What was your minor?
Bender: Robo-American Studies.

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
> ady2007© wrote:
>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>
> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
> Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>


Flexibility.
The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) require.
I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task (and/or 
by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).

There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
do it, then it does it without issue.

 -Kevin

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
> with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
> do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> -Kevin
>

agree 100%
its a cracking remote that is missing a decent technical side!
the way you tell the website the make & model is fine but
it would be nice to have a user inter face to tweak there pre
defined settings.
also I don't like the big brother thing that if any thing happens to 
Logitech
in the future how will you be able to add more functions to your remote?
although this would not have put me off buying the remote in the first
place if I had known about it before hand.

ady

Gunther Gloop wrote:
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
> it to do it, then it does it without issue.

Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a bit 
slow.

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

"Oh, great, a one-way street! How does that work if I'm going
 backwards?" -- Francis, Malcolm in the Middle

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fjgpF2gped8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunther Gloop wrote:
>>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>>
>> Flexibility.
>> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
>> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
>> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
>> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
>> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>>
>> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
>> it to do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
> seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
> activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
> crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a 
> bit slow.
>


The one thing that could save the Harmony product-line is if they had 
user-defineable macros -ie. press one button while in one activity to do a 
number of things.
Macros are not a feature on any Harmony (that I've seen/ heard of).

The 885 has a button to allows you setup/select various digital channels 
from the screen on the remote. You can download real channel logos to 
display in this screen. It looks nice, but is made pointless (IMO) by the 
fact you have to click that initial button to show the channels first, then 
go look for the specific channel on the remote's screen. It's easier to just 
press the (3) numbers, or press the Favourites button. !

But if that button lead the user to a list of MACROS, then it could be very 
interesting ...and Harmony-saving! ...but it doesnt', so it's not.  :(

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 21:57:56 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
> news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ady2007© wrote:
>>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>> 
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with 
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>> 
> 
> 
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't 
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
> 
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it 
> to do it, then it does it without issue.

I've had Harmony Remotes for about 3 1/2 years since getting shot of my 
MX500 (which itself replaced a Pronto) and I've never looked back. I'm 
not sure what 'niggly bits' I don't have, but my 525 manages a sat box, 
lcd tv, freeview pvr, home cinema amp, dvd player, dvd recorder, X10 
lighting and Xbox with no trouble at all. So much so that my original 
remotes are probably full of leaky batteries as they've been shut in a 
drawer for so long.

What i will concede is that the Harmony requires every bit as much 
careful attention in the setup as a Pronto. If you run into problems, 
the customer support is superb and they will assist on a bespoke basis 
if you request it.

The colour screen Harmonys are nice but they are no better in 
functionality than the cheaper models.

So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).


-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>


I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)

So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right and 
there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but honestly 
it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.

....One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that device 
first.
My Marantz used to have the same issue.
Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the (very 
good) Harmony support. But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that 
regularly occur, some more 'serious' than others.
They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "5605"  wrote in message 
> news:2007041523004716807-not@chancecom...
>> So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
>> didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
>> task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>> 
> 
> 
> I remember you saying so, way back when, but thought I'd get away with 
> ignoring you Trendy Uncle. ;)
> 
> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)

Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)

> 
> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be 
> right and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, 
> but honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for 
> me.

No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood 
the Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device 
based. You're so last century Kelvin (sic)

> 
> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), 
> it fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
> device first.
> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
> (very good) Harmony support.

I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the 
code has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes 
they had updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean 
form. I've never looked back.


>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, 
> some more 'serious' than others.
> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
> 
>  -Kevin.

If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies 
your continued support of the Pronto.

-- 
5605 your Trendy Uncle
Don't look at me, I'm just typin' and a newsreadin' it's so borin'.

"5605"  wrote in message 
news:2007041612103416807-not@chancecom...
> On 2007-04-15 23:45:41 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:
>> So yes, I admit to lying for the sake of brevity and clarity. :)
>
> Why change the habit of a lifetime :-)
>

Now now. No call for that young man!


>> Clearly you're a persevering and/or lucky so&so. You could well be right 
>> and there is a way to set up my particular devices trouble-free, but 
>> honestly it's more hassle and time-consuming than it's worth -for me.
>
> No I'm neither persevering nor lucky - I simply adopted and understood the 
> Harmony ethos of activity based remote control as opposed to device based. 
> You're so last century Kelvin (sic)
>

I understood that too. And have always set up my multi-remotes (including 
Pronto and Harmonys) in that way, Playtrick. (sic)


>> ...One 'issue' I have is when I want to press AV twice (which is needed 
>> sometimes to go from, say EXT1 to EXT3  -no discrete code available), it 
>> fails to recognise the 2nd press until I send another signal to that 
>> device first.
>> My Marantz used to have the same issue.
>> Really, I couldn't be arsed going through a thing like that with the 
>> (very good) Harmony support.
>
> I had the exact same issue with my TV. I contacted Harmony Customer 
> Service and explained the issue (it's common on certain brands - the code 
> has a toggle bit which makes it hard to learn). Within 45 minutes they had 
> updated my setup to include the toggle bit codes in clean form. I've never 
> looked back.
>
>>  But I do have possibly 10-or-so such niggles that regularly occur, some 
>> more 'serious' than others.
>> They're not worth raising here and they're not worth "explaining" to 
>> customer support -but they are a hindrance at times nonetheless.
>>
> If you don't explain them to customer support and give them a chance to 
> address them, then your complaints sound like carping that justifies your 
> continued support of the Pronto.
>

Well at least my Pronto support is justified. :)
I gave my point of view. I have no problem with you putting yours. I don't 
deny you've had your issues solved for you.

Going to the bother of explaining things like that to customer support and 
waiting 45 minutes or so for them to sort it out (if possible) is nice for 
some. I prefer to have the power to do it myself. Who knows what future 
issues may arise with future products?

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 but 
> are they good??
>

I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
Currys or Dixons or someplace.
The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are flush 
and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station which 
soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from charging 
easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same remote and he 
had the same problems.

The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
all other remotes (as a pronto does).
If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in one 
room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on hand 
for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.

I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.

I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.

 -Kevin.

-- 
http://www.ooyay.com/theoriesandthings/
....theories, things, caption competitions...

"Gunther Gloop"  wrote in message 
news:57vmfuF2ed938U1@mid.individual.net...
> "ady2007©"  wrote in message 
> news:53wSh.8109$xT6.3784@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> thinking of ordering one of the above remotes to replace my pronto 940 
>> but are they good??
>>
>
> I have an 885 and a 650 (I think it's the 650 at least). To be honest, of 
> the two, I'd go for the 650, which I last saw going for around 20 quid in 
> Currys or Dixons or someplace.
> The 885 is a £180+ downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The buttons are 
> flush and not as good. It comes with built-in battery and docking station 
> which soon had problems (the connectors 'sunk in', stopping it from 
> charging easily). I talked with one other person I know with the same 
> remote and he had the same problems.
>
> The 885 does look very nice, but it never really allowed me to throw away 
> all other remotes (as a pronto does).
> If I had no kids, I'd have two prontos. As it is, the 650 and 885 are in 
> one room and used interchangeably, but still I keep the 'real' remotes on 
> hand for those off-standard problems that arise from time to time.
>
> I use a pronto in the other room and never had a problem with that.
>
> I don't know the differences between the 895 and the 885.
>
> -Kevin.
>
cheers kev the harmony 895 arrived this morning and was up and running 
inside 10 mins... so its not all bad
i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
what pronto are you using?

"ady2007©"  wrote in message 
news:76tTh.917$NZ2.697@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one 
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
> what pronto are you using?


RU890
It's old now and looks it, but it's still the best remote I've had by far.
2nd best was the Marantz 2000 MK3 (actually not sure if that's the model, 
but it's something like that). The top-heavy one.
That worked nicely (eventually), but broke some years ago.

I really don't see any Pronto-beaters out there in that price bracket, which 
is strange as it's really old technology nowadays and the market is bigger 
than ever. All the good-looking ones seem to have too many quirky issues, 
annoying fiddlynesses and silly-but-necessary work-arounds.

 -Kevin.

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

ady2007© wrote:
> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.

Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

Leela: You went to college?
Bender: Of course. I'm a bender. I went to Bending College; I majored
in Bending. Fry: What was your minor?
Bender: Robo-American Studies.

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
> ady2007© wrote:
>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>
> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with the 
> Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>


Flexibility.
The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) require.
I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task (and/or 
by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).

There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
do it, then it does it without issue.

 -Kevin

-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

"> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't cope 
> with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it to 
> do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> -Kevin
>

agree 100%
its a cracking remote that is missing a decent technical side!
the way you tell the website the make & model is fine but
it would be nice to have a user inter face to tweak there pre
defined settings.
also I don't like the big brother thing that if any thing happens to 
Logitech
in the future how will you be able to add more functions to your remote?
although this would not have put me off buying the remote in the first
place if I had known about it before hand.

ady

Gunther Gloop wrote:
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
> it to do it, then it does it without issue.

Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a bit 
slow.

-- 
StainlessSteelRat
http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net

"Oh, great, a one-way street! How does that work if I'm going
 backwards?" -- Francis, Malcolm in the Middle

"StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
news:58fjgpF2gped8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunther Gloop wrote:
>>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an
>>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with
>>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>>
>> Flexibility.
>> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't
>> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts
>> (especially) require. I have yet to find someone who had no issues
>> with theirs and didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of
>> performing some task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
>>
>> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program
>> it to do it, then it does it without issue.
>
> Ah, I didn't realise the Harmony was so inflexible. I did notice there 
> seemed to be a bit of a forced structure though, that it organises by 
> activity rather than keeping things open. Hopefully it won't drive me 
> crackers, but I do miss tactile buttons with the Pronto, and the UI is a 
> bit slow.
>


The one thing that could save the Harmony product-line is if they had 
user-defineable macros -ie. press one button while in one activity to do a 
number of things.
Macros are not a feature on any Harmony (that I've seen/ heard of).

The 885 has a button to allows you setup/select various digital channels 
from the screen on the remote. You can download real channel logos to 
display in this screen. It looks nice, but is made pointless (IMO) by the 
fact you have to click that initial button to show the channels first, then 
go look for the specific channel on the remote's screen. It's easier to just 
press the (3) numbers, or press the Favourites button. !

But if that button lead the user to a list of MACROS, then it could be very 
interesting ...and Harmony-saving! ...but it doesnt', so it's not.  :(

 -Kevin.


-- 
A great book I heartily recommend...
http://www.ooyay.com/

On 2007-04-15 21:57:56 +0100, "Gunther Gloop"  said:

> "StainlessSteelRat"  wrote in message 
> news:58fgj4F2gj4b4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> ady2007© wrote:
>>> i must say it's no pronto and would still like another one a newer one
>>> seeing as i have sold my ru940 now.
>> 
>> Shucks, I've just ordered the Harmony 885 (if it ever arrives from an 
>> eBay-er). I liked the idea of the tactile buttons, which I miss with 
>> the Pronto. What do you think's missing from the Harmony?
>> 
> 
> 
> Flexibility.
> The Harmony is a nice family-friendly multi-remote, but it just can't 
> cope with all the niggly bits that home cinema enthusiasts (especially) 
> require.
> I have yet to find someone who had no issues with theirs and didn't 
> eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some task 
> (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).
> 
> There's none of that with a Pronto. If it doesn't do it, you program it 
> to do it, then it does it without issue.

I've had Harmony Remotes for about 3 1/2 years since getting shot of my 
MX500 (which itself replaced a Pronto) and I've never looked back. I'm 
not sure what 'niggly bits' I don't have, but my 525 manages a sat box, 
lcd tv, freeview pvr, home cinema amp, dvd player, dvd recorder, X10 
lighting and Xbox with no trouble at all. So much so that my original 
remotes are probably full of leaky batteries as they've been shut in a 
drawer for so long.

What i will concede is that the Harmony requires every bit as much 
careful attention in the setup as a Pronto. If you run into problems, 
the customer support is superb and they will assist on a bespoke basis 
if you request it.

The colour screen Harmonys are nice but they are no better in 
functionality than the cheaper models.

So there you are Kevin, someone who had no issues with theirs and 
didn't eventually 'settle' for some workaround way of performing some 
task (and/or by keeping the 'real' remotes to hand).