" krp"  wrote in message
news:7Dtdj.3154$ZI4.1558@trnddc08...
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message
> news:13naucvofmvmve9@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "fathersrights"  wrote in message
>> news:9Bcdj.9246$E01.1037@newsfe22.lga...
>>> If you argue that your spouse is unfit because her own pleadings and
>>> actions try to minimize vice maximize your time with the children while
>>> your pleadings ask for maximum involvement of both parents, you place
>>> your spouse in a legal box. She will either increase her offers or look
>>> foolish trying to explain to a cross examiner why she should have more
>>> time with the children than you and would run a serious risk of losing
>>> or not obtaining custody. Either way, you better your position and
>>> minimize emotional damage to the children. Even if you don't win
>>> custody, you will enjoy much more visitation than fathers usually are
>>> awarded. These tactics have actually been proven in the courtroom in
>>> custody /visitation/support litigation by Attorney Isaacs. see
>>> http://www.fathersrights.org for free tactics
>>>
>>
>> Bullshit.
>
> There is a reason that 95% of dads who try to win custody wind up losing.
> You have correctly identified ONE of them. Bullshit GAME legal strategies
> instead of a well prepared FACTUAL case. Custody is NOT a game.
>
> http://www.a-team.org/fathers_win_custody.html
>
>    Bullshit doesn't win custody for dads. Approach it as a GAME and you'll
> lose! And worse, you'll lose the respect of your children.
>
>
>

When I began my experience with the family court night-mare, my lawyer, an
experienced professional with a stand-up downtown law firm, advised me that
a custody challenge would cost upwards of $40K with no guarantee of the
outcome. Now having gone through the "total experience", I'm certainly glad
I didn't explore the offer. Even if I was able to obtain custody to begin
with, it could have been taken away very easily. I would have been in the
same boat I am now only worse considering the additional wasted resources.

I went the normal route which was barely challenging custody but asking for
shared custody with greater access. The interim motion cost me approximately 
$5K and I
ended up *without* custody and the "standard" visitation schedule.

Several months year later, I had my lawyer arrange a four-way meeting to
discuss shared custody before the final hearing. The original lawyer was off
having her baby and the replacement seemed to be more of a pit-bull of
sorts. I thought her quite cunning as her strategy was to offer them
anything they wanted including birthdays, Christmas holidays and even
Halloween in order to have shared custody. They broke down, gave in and we
went to court to have the final agreement authorized by the judge.

That lasted for approximately seven months until I made a motion for more
time. When I did, the court removed both Tuesday evening access as well as
the joint custody. They asked for costs and I had to pay her lawyer almost
$5K. That was a costly error in more ways than one.

I've lived under that agreement for more than ten years and as my posts will
indicate, have been driven into a cycle of poverty as a direct result of the
entire scam.

My big challenge these days is to somehow pay child support to avoid
enforcement action which puts in jeopardy my credit rating, driving license,
passport and eventually my freedom by way of a jail term. Pretty good system
I must say.

That's why I'm so incensed at the feminist movement and the special interest
advocacy groups who made it all possible while they wave the flag for "best
interests of the child".

Its worse than bullshit. It's a fraudulent scam on the highest order. The 
upside is I've had to try understand how it was all possible that such a 
scam could occur and my eyes have certainly been opened. The adversity has 
allowed me to become quite skeptical and able to see through a great many 
scams that most of the population lives with never questioning or 
understanding.

The scams are tied in with even greater scams leading to even greater scams. 
Oddly enough, though it makes sense now, among the only groups that seem to 
represent my interests are those who the media represents as white 
supremists - real strange and entirely explainable.

So in the end, the system has created an enemy where there was once a 
willing, naive and subservient sheep. It's really unfortunate I think. It 
didn't have to be this way but when pharaoh doesn't release enough grain, 
his place in the hierarchy will eventually become jeopardized.

I wasn't asking for much but having been prevented an opportunity to earn a 
living, will return to haunt them. Its bigger than simply my kid and me. 
It's on mofo!!

"Meldon"  wrote in message 
news:13nd578id09ac5c@corp.supernews.com...

>>>> If you argue that your spouse is unfit because her own pleadings and
>>>> actions try to minimize vice maximize your time with the children while
>>>> your pleadings ask for maximum involvement of both parents, you place
>>>> your spouse in a legal box. She will either increase her offers or look
>>>> foolish trying to explain to a cross examiner why she should have more
>>>> time with the children than you and would run a serious risk of losing
>>>> or not obtaining custody. Either way, you better your position and
>>>> minimize emotional damage to the children. Even if you don't win
>>>> custody, you will enjoy much more visitation than fathers usually are
>>>> awarded. These tactics have actually been proven in the courtroom in
>>>> custody /visitation/support litigation by Attorney Isaacs. see
>>>> http://www.fathersrights.org for free tactics
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>
>> There is a reason that 95% of dads who try to win custody wind up losing.
>> You have correctly identified ONE of them. Bullshit GAME legal strategies
>> instead of a well prepared FACTUAL case. Custody is NOT a game.
>>
>> http://www.a-team.org/fathers_win_custody.html
>>
>>    Bullshit doesn't win custody for dads. Approach it as a GAME and 
>> you'll
>> lose! And worse, you'll lose the respect of your children.

> When I began my experience with the family court night-mare, my lawyer, an
> experienced professional with a stand-up downtown law firm, advised me 
> that
> a custody challenge would cost upwards of $40K with no guarantee of the
> outcome. Now having gone through the "total experience", I'm certainly 
> glad
> I didn't explore the offer. Even if I was able to obtain custody to begin
> with, it could have been taken away very easily. I would have been in the
> same boat I am now only worse considering the additional wasted resources.

    Well $40K is cheap for a custody fight, a REAL one where you intend to 
WIN. My advice to the men I talk to is that "custody is NOT a game" never 
start or even threaten a custody fight unless you are committed to win. 
Committed to win both financially and mentally because they are not easy. 
And you are right, 95% of men who win custody will lose it within 2 years 
back to mommy. Why? If you metely "got lucky" with a win, say she's a drunk, 
in 2 years when she is "rehabilitated" the gushing judge gives her back 
"HER" kids. A dad has to look at the circumstances of his kids. How bad is 
it with mom? A realistic evaluation not just a fight for "property." Not 
just him versus the ex kind of thing. Again a custody fight isn't a game, 
you shouldn't start it unless you really need to, it is better putting 
efforts into finding ways to work out differences. Go that extra mile or 
two. Most cases pass through the acrimony in a couple years after the 
divorce, the cases where it goes on are caused by constantly being involved 
in legal battles.  The more you keep lawyers OUT of your lives the better. 
Expend the efforts to try to work things out. Remember -  you two were in 
love once. Why?

> I went the normal route which was barely challenging custody but asking 
> for
> shared custody with greater access. The interim motion cost me 
> approximately  $5K and I
> ended up *without* custody and the "standard" visitation schedule.
> Several months year later, I had my lawyer arrange a four-way meeting to
> discuss shared custody before the final hearing. The original lawyer was 
> off
> having her baby and the replacement seemed to be more of a pit-bull of
> sorts. I thought her quite cunning as her strategy was to offer them
> anything they wanted including birthdays, Christmas holidays and even
> Halloween in order to have shared custody. They broke down, gave in and we
> went to court to have the final agreement authorized by the judge.

    Well - you know honey works better than vinegar. Working things out is 
better than spending $100K when it is possible. Some folks around here want 
women "punished" and insist that any olive branch is bad. There are plenty 
of man hating feminists giving women the same TOXIC advice. To them it's all 
a game extending their own personal anger at the other gender and NONE - not 
even the smallest particle of a second of their thinking goes into 
considering the needs and feeling of the children involved. To assholes like 
that the kids are just a trophy a means to punish the HATED gender.

> That lasted for approximately seven months until I made a motion for more
> time. When I did, the court removed both Tuesday evening access as well as
> the joint custody. They asked for costs and I had to pay her lawyer almost
> $5K. That was a costly error in more ways than one.

    Well I'd love to talk to you in detail on that and see the transcript. I 
can bet what happend. Did you have a lawyer?

> I've lived under that agreement for more than ten years and as my posts 
> will indicate, have been driven into a cycle of poverty as a direct result 
> of the
> entire scam.

    I can sympathize. Which is why I tell guys the things I do.

> My big challenge these days is to somehow pay child support to avoid
> enforcement action which puts in jeopardy my credit rating, driving 
> license,
> passport and eventually my freedom by way of a jail term. Pretty good 
> system
> I must say.

> That's why I'm so incensed at the feminist movement and the special 
> interest
> advocacy groups who made it all possible while they wave the flag for 
> "best
> interests of the child".

    Well you can also thank some men's rights people too.

> Its worse than bullshit. It's a fraudulent scam on the highest order. The 
> upside is I've had to try understand how it was all possible that such a 
> scam could occur and my eyes have certainly been opened. The adversity has 
> allowed me to become quite skeptical and able to see through a great many 
> scams that most of the population lives with never questioning or 
> understanding.

    Well, I can understand and offer sympathy, but there was a better way, 
one that included NOT bankrupting yourself.  Odd that while I say that dads 
can WIN custody, there is more than ONE definition of what winning means. 
Not having your life and the lives of your kids turned to shit is also a 
win.

> The scams are tied in with even greater scams leading to even greater 
> scams. Oddly enough, though it makes sense now, among the only groups that 
> seem to represent my interests are those who the media represents as white 
> supremists - real strange and entirely explainable.

> So in the end, the system has created an enemy where there was once a 
> willing, naive and subservient sheep. It's really unfortunate I think. It 
> didn't have to be this way but when pharaoh doesn't release enough grain, 
> his place in the hierarchy will eventually become jeopardized.

> I wasn't asking for much but having been prevented an opportunity to earn 
> a living, will return to haunt them. Its bigger than simply my kid and me. 
> It's on mofo!!

    Well guy seems to me that what you needed was more of a "friend" in this 
than a warrior. Too many "experts" on and off the internet who live 
vicariously through waging wars with other people's lives as the chessboard. 
I have seen some very hostile situations resolved with some steady hands 
helping negotiate a soft landing for all concerned. Look at Turin as an 
example. He can only understand global thermonuclear war in these cases. 
Getting even with the "bitches." Punishing them for their evil 
transgressions. Where does that fanning of hate take us as men or as 
FATHERS? It may take some suffering for a time, but you will always get more 
flies with honey than with vinegar. I ask you this - are your kids WORTH 
taking shit for a time from an ANGRY ex-wife? What is it REALLY all about? 
If it is winning, then you can wallow in your bitterness. If it is LOVE for 
your kids, then you have a long time to reap those rewards. Keep your eyes 
focused on that road of life not the one of anger and hate so many people 
sell. I went through it, my kids are grown, I have grandchildren. You know, 
having kids that really respect you (regardless of David Moore's BULLSHIT 
claims)  and your grandkids is the greatest victory. You learn when you get 
older and perhaps get sick as I did, what it means to have your kids stand 
vigil in your hospital room. To have your grandkids there too. You get to 
know what is REALLY important. And trust me the SHIT that people like Turin 
sell ain't it. It's hanging in there and being DADDY that's where it is, 
even when it is hard.  Still finding that inner light that allows you to 
smile and remember what is REALLY important.

"Meldon"  wrote in message 
news:a3bb15bd-a2ae-4768-b995-cfeb9ef66c61@z26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

>>     Well - you know honey works better than vinegar. Working things out 
>> is
>> better than spending $100K when it is possible.

> If a female spouse is taking her male counterpart to court, working
> things out has already failed. The dollar amount says it all and tell
> me who benefits and who is responsible.

    You have a valid point. I was speaking of men to start custody fights 
when the only beneficiaries are the lawyers. I favor mediation, REAL 
mediation.