I'm reading Engleby by Sebastian Faulks at the moment. In it the main 
character muses over the breakdown of society, it is set in the 1970s. He 
comes to the conclusion that in the UK we became disconnected from our past 
in the 60s for the first time in hundreds of years. Even during WW11 and in 
the fifties most of us could trace, via place of birth, family and job, a 
linear connection going back at least a couple of hundred years. I remember 
in the 50s in a geography lesson noting one third of the world was coloured 
red, (empire, not the USSR)and "felt" I belonged to something important. In 
the 60s  people of my age became mobile for the first time, mostly for 
education but also because we could afford a car. We were off, left home, 
mixed with other classes and cultures, and the opposite sex, it was fun. But 
the extension of that is what we have now, no connection to anything or 
anybody except our immediate family and a few friends. There is no feeling 
of belonging to anything worthwhile or being required morally to serve the 
greater good. If I feel like that, with my fortunate background and good 
luck, what must inner city young kids with no family, no worthwhile job, no 
aspirations, no hope, feel like?

> I'm reading Engleby by Sebastian Faulks at the moment. In it the main
> character muses over the breakdown of society, it is set in the 1970s. He
> comes to the conclusion that in the UK we became disconnected from our
past
> in the 60s for the first time in hundreds of years. Even during WW11 and
in
> the fifties most of us could trace, via place of birth, family and job, a
> linear connection going back at least a couple of hundred years. I
remember
> in the 50s in a geography lesson noting one third of the world was
coloured
> red, (empire, not the USSR)and "felt" I belonged to something important.
In
> the 60s  people of my age became mobile for the first time, mostly for
> education but also because we could afford a car. We were off, left home,
> mixed with other classes and cultures, and the opposite sex, it was fun.
But
> the extension of that is what we have now, no connection to anything or
> anybody except our immediate family and a few friends. There is no feeling
> of belonging to anything worthwhile or being required morally to serve the
> greater good. If I feel like that, with my fortunate background and good
> luck, what must inner city young kids with no family, no worthwhile job,
no
> aspirations, no hope, feel like?

Every generation no doubt says the same thing. But I definitely do blame the
Sixties' generation to blame for all that has come since. Presumerably
people like you.
Where would we be if we had too many rules? Germany. Where would we be if we
didn't have any rules? France. Incidentally, its not just a UK problem, its
a Western cultural one. The 60's "set us free". The 70's got a bit more
professional about it. The 80's sold out to commercialism. The 90's was a
pathetic attempt at being 60's-like in a commercial way. Now things have
been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.

Jim Morrison said in an interview once that "the gap is getting wider day by
day - the old are getting older and the young are getting...somewhere".
Semi-profound. Young people don't identify with yesteryear notions because
they weren't there. In the 60's people didn't want to know about yesteryear
or its notions, they wanted to know about NOW. Its quite a conscious thing,
I believe. We can all sit around reminiscing and harking back to days gone
by, or we can learn to enjoy now and all that entails (selfishness, choosing
smaller circles to move around in because there's no rigid formality to
dictate society or to drive people together to spend more time with each
other).

Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids but
don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
they've turned out. And so on and so on.

<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:Rekyk.9205$W17.4685@newsfe28.ams2...
>> I'm reading Engleby by Sebastian Faulks at the moment. In it the main
>> character muses over the breakdown of society, it is set in the 1970s. He
>> comes to the conclusion that in the UK we became disconnected from our
> past
>> in the 60s for the first time in hundreds of years. Even during WW11 and
> in
>> the fifties most of us could trace, via place of birth, family and job, a
>> linear connection going back at least a couple of hundred years. I
> remember
>> in the 50s in a geography lesson noting one third of the world was
> coloured
>> red, (empire, not the USSR)and "felt" I belonged to something important.
> In
>> the 60s  people of my age became mobile for the first time, mostly for
>> education but also because we could afford a car. We were off, left home,
>> mixed with other classes and cultures, and the opposite sex, it was fun.
> But
>> the extension of that is what we have now, no connection to anything or
>> anybody except our immediate family and a few friends. There is no 
>> feeling
>> of belonging to anything worthwhile or being required morally to serve 
>> the
>> greater good. If I feel like that, with my fortunate background and good
>> luck, what must inner city young kids with no family, no worthwhile job,
> no
>> aspirations, no hope, feel like?
>
> Every generation no doubt says the same thing. But I definitely do blame 
> the
> Sixties' generation to blame for all that has come since. Presumerably
> people like you.
> Where would we be if we had too many rules? Germany. Where would we be if 
> we
> didn't have any rules? France. Incidentally, its not just a UK problem, 
> its
> a Western cultural one. The 60's "set us free". The 70's got a bit more
> professional about it. The 80's sold out to commercialism. The 90's was a
> pathetic attempt at being 60's-like in a commercial way. Now things have
> been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.

Before what?

And if we didn't have any rules we would be like Italy. Contrary to popular 
belief France is a highly centralised society. That is why anyone who gets 
in the way of "progress" in France is overridden. Mind you, when push comes 
to shove they can get stroppy, particularly with an 8 in the year.
>
> Jim Morrison said in an interview once that "the gap is getting wider day 
> by
> day - the old are getting older and the young are getting...somewhere".
> Semi-profound. Young people don't identify with yesteryear notions because
> they weren't there. In the 60's people didn't want to know about 
> yesteryear
> or its notions, they wanted to know about NOW. Its quite a conscious 
> thing,
> I believe. We can all sit around reminiscing and harking back to days gone
> by, or we can learn to enjoy now and all that entails (selfishness, 
> choosing
> smaller circles to move around in because there's no rigid formality to
> dictate society or to drive people together to spend more time with each
> other).

Are you on something? Young people have always wanted to know about NOW, but 
subconsciously they felt some connection with the past. Nowadays they don't 
even feel some connection with the present!

>
> Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids but
> don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
> they've turned out. And so on and so on.

Your maths are not too good are they? The 60s generation are now 
grandparents or even great grandparents. What I notice is that the 60s 
generation have got lumbered with looking after the 80s generation's kids so 
that that generation can go out to work and earn "loads of money" rather 
than look after their kids!

"Toooldtocare"  wrote in message 
news:8ZWdndIl-I8yVFfVnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>

> What I notice is that the 60s generation have got lumbered with looking 
> after the 80s generation's kids so that that generation can go out to work 
> and earn "loads of money" rather than look after their kids!

Once again I find myself agreeing with you.  Clearly I need a holiday...
-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:YPAyk.21234$KJ2.3690@newsfe15.ams2...
> "Toooldtocare"  wrote in message 
> news:8ZWdndIl-I8yVFfVnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>
>> What I notice is that the 60s generation have got lumbered with looking 
>> after the 80s generation's kids so that that generation can go out to 
>> work and earn "loads of money" rather than look after their kids!
>
> Once again I find myself agreeing with you.  Clearly I need a holiday...

Well you probably do and enjoy it! :-)

But that brings me to this Excel or XL, whatever it is called, bankruptcy. 
The news is full of it. Wailing and moaning parents and grandparents 
bleating they have had their holidays messed up and "what are we going to 
tell the children because they don't understand?". Tough! life has it's 
disappointments, it's not the end of the world, we all have to learn to 
accept disappointments sooner or later so the sooner the better. What's the 
big deal? At most it's an inconvenience. Most will get their money back. 
Life is more than about a couple of weeks on the Costa Packet. Little 
sympathy is given for the 1500 poor sods who have lost their jobs. It's a 
crazy world when a messed up holiday leads the brave bomb disposal guy who 
was killed in Afghanistan today.

> > Now things have
> > been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.
>
> Before what?

Before they were dumbed down.

> > Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids but
> > don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
> > they've turned out. And so on and so on.
>
> Your maths are not too good are they? The 60s generation are now
> grandparents or even great grandparents.

I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter that they
have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their 60's
ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent generations
have become progressively more selfish.

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message
news:YPAyk.21234$KJ2.3690@newsfe15.ams2...
> "Toooldtocare"  wrote in message
> news:8ZWdndIl-I8yVFfVnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> >
>
> > What I notice is that the 60s generation have got lumbered with looking
> > after the 80s generation's kids so that that generation can go out to
work
> > and earn "loads of money" rather than look after their kids!
>
> Once again I find myself agreeing with you.  Clearly I need a holiday...
> -- 
> Harry Keane
>
Same here except the kids have lost their jobs and cannot get a new one .
The reason why their college education is myoptic and they are not qualified
to do anything else.

<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:wvFyk.22477$W17.5894@newsfe28.ams2...
> > > Now things have
> > > been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.
> >
> > Before what?
>
> Before they were dumbed down.
>
> > > Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids
but
> > > don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
> > > they've turned out. And so on and so on.
> >
> > Your maths are not too good are they? The 60s generation are now
> > grandparents or even great grandparents.
>
> I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter that
they
> have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their 60's
> ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent generations
> have become progressively more selfish.


Thats why they call it the ME generation .

"Toooldtocare"  wrote in message 
news:HZSdnUaZfKyMfVfVnZ2dnUVZ8sednZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
> news:YPAyk.21234$KJ2.3690@newsfe15.ams2...
>> "Toooldtocare"  wrote in message 
>> news:8ZWdndIl-I8yVFfVnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>
>>> What I notice is that the 60s generation have got lumbered with looking 
>>> after the 80s generation's kids so that that generation can go out to 
>>> work and earn "loads of money" rather than look after their kids!
>>
>> Once again I find myself agreeing with you.  Clearly I need a holiday...
>
> Well you probably do and enjoy it! :-)
>
> But that brings me to this Excel or XL, whatever it is called, bankruptcy. 
> The news is full of it. Wailing and moaning parents and grandparents 
> bleating they have had their holidays messed up and "what are we going to 
> tell the children because they don't understand?". Tough! life has it's 
> disappointments, it's not the end of the world, we all have to learn to 
> accept disappointments sooner or later so the sooner the better. What's 
> the big deal? At most it's an inconvenience. Most will get their money 
> back. Life is more than about a couple of weeks on the Costa Packet. 
> Little sympathy is given for the 1500 poor sods who have lost their jobs. 
> It's a crazy world when a messed up holiday leads the brave bomb disposal 
> guy who was killed in Afghanistan today.

Totally agree, my sympathy goes to those who lost their jobs not their 
holidays! You're right they will get their money back and it was just an 
inconvenience! Watched some woman on the tv moaning about how they "need to 
get home".... they were at a UK airport ffs!  I noticed the other day how 
something american (think it was the bloody elections again) lead over 
hundreds killed by flooding or some other disaster somewhere else in the 
world!

On another note my sympathies go out to the family and friends of that bomb 
disposal guy.  It's a dangerous job and brave people that do it!

JB
x
>
>
>

<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:wvFyk.22477$W17.5894@newsfe28.ams2...
>> > Now things have
>> > been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.
>>
>> Before what?
>
> Before they were dumbed down.
>
>> > Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids but
>> > don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
>> > they've turned out. And so on and so on.
>>
>> Your maths are not too good are they? The 60s generation are now
>> grandparents or even great grandparents.
>
> I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter that 
> they
> have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their 60's
> ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent generations
> have become progressively more selfish.


Harry? It's all our fault! :-)

"mike hide"  wrote in message 
news:z7-dnZ72Ev27slbVnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:wvFyk.22477$W17.5894@newsfe28.ams2...
>> > > Now things have
>> > > been dumbed down so much we forget what life was like before.
>> >
>> > Before what?
>>
>> Before they were dumbed down.
>>
>> > > Like I said, its the fault of the 60's generation who now have kids
> but
>> > > don't want to discipline them too much "peace, man". Just look at how
>> > > they've turned out. And so on and so on.
>> >
>> > Your maths are not too good are they? The 60s generation are now
>> > grandparents or even great grandparents.
>>
>> I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter that
> they
>> have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their 
>> 60's
>> ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent 
>> generations
>> have become progressively more selfish.
>
>
> Thats why they call it the ME generation .

Curious that, I often go on about the me, me, me, generation  but when I 
think about it what does it mean? We all think about "me " don't we and 
always have? Ok, there are and have been a few saints but human nature being 
what it is selfishness is the norm.

> >> I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter that
> > they
> >> have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their
> >> 60's
> >> ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent
> >> generations
> >> have become progressively more selfish.
> >
> >
> > Thats why they call it the ME generation .
>
> Curious that, I often go on about the me, me, me, generation  but when I
> think about it what does it mean? We all think about "me " don't we and
> always have? Ok, there are and have been a few saints but human nature
being
> what it is selfishness is the norm.

Not sure about that - I think in the past simple consideration for example,
for the greater good, was adhered to more generally - for example keeping
noise down late at night to be considerate to your neighbours. Now there
have to be laws to enforce adherence to that unwritten law, simply because
some people are too selfish to consider others. I'm sure there's plenty more
instances of this new breed of selfishness too.

Common sense used to always prevail, but now even that has to be enforced as
it is sadly becoming a rarer quality in the yoof of today.

<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:1LVyk.22278$uW7.14126@newsfe13.ams2...
>> >> I meant now that the 60's generation have kids - it doesn't matter 
>> >> that
>> > they
>> >> have aged too - they didn't discipline them properly because of their
>> >> 60's
>> >> ideals which has led to the breakdown in society as subsequent
>> >> generations
>> >> have become progressively more selfish.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thats why they call it the ME generation .
>>
>> Curious that, I often go on about the me, me, me, generation  but when I
>> think about it what does it mean? We all think about "me " don't we and
>> always have? Ok, there are and have been a few saints but human nature
> being
>> what it is selfishness is the norm.
>
> Not sure about that - I think in the past simple consideration for 
> example,
> for the greater good, was adhered to more generally - for example keeping
> noise down late at night to be considerate to your neighbours. Now there
> have to be laws to enforce adherence to that unwritten law, simply because
> some people are too selfish to consider others. I'm sure there's plenty 
> more
> instances of this new breed of selfishness too.
>
> Common sense used to always prevail, but now even that has to be enforced 
> as
> it is sadly becoming a rarer quality in the yoof of today.

Yep! Can't argue with that. Unfortunately :-0