Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.

Simple.

wrote in message news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>
> Simple.

No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a sense of 
right and wrong. Then of course, there is the issue of what to do when they 
"stray". There is much talk of being "tough on crime" but once the jails 
fill up that is just talk.

Even in the days of  "Bobbies on the Beat"  the chances of one being "on 
hand" when a crime was happening was, at best, remote.


-- 
73
Brian, G8OSN
www.g8osn.org.uk

"Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message
news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>  wrote in message
news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
> > Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
> >
> > Simple.
>
> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a sense
of
> right and wrong. Then of course, there is the issue of what to do when
they
> "stray". There is much talk of being "tough on crime" but once the jails
> fill up that is just talk.
>
> Even in the days of  "Bobbies on the Beat"  the chances of one being "on
> hand" when a crime was happening was, at best, remote.

Some 'youf worka' was on BBC News 24 last night, prattling on a bit, it must
be said, that kids feel scared walking about on the streets and feel like
they have to protect themselves. If there were actually police on the
streets, not these hypothetical community wardens or whatever bullshit
they're called these days popping up once a month in the wrong place, then
maybe people wouldn't feel scared to go out at night.

But what I'd really say to the kids who feel scared to go out at nights is
just don't bother going out. I know I'm 1000% more likely to be stabbed
outside a nightclub on a Friday or Saturday, or anywhere along the route and
its surrounding streets, towards a kebab shop, bus or train station (or
park) and so it seems quite sensible not to be in those places at those
times. As soon as you hear a large group of people at night (and they
usually aren't quiet) walk the other way. The vast majority of people
assaulted and stabbed on our streets are walking about at night in groups or
bump into a group (2 or more). Drink and drugs are usually involved,
although bravado is also a major contributory factor.

The police are too scared to go on the streets now on a regular basis.
Government funding cuts took them off the streets in the first place and the
louts took advantage and are still on top now. The government's solution was
to install CCTV which hasn't made anything better and its not going to help
you until its too late if you're accosted by a group of thugs - but at least
they'll be able to show you being beaten up on the news and crime watch.

What needs to happen is for a few generations of hardcore tough policemen to
get back on our streets with powers to arrest the twats who go around being
twats (even just the mouthy ones).  Parents should take full responsbility
for their kids - Mum, I'm just going out to meet my friends...At 9pm on a
Friday night? No way - you're staying in - go on the internet or watch a DVD
or something or maybe we could all do something together as a family -
there's some good comedy on TV tonight...etc.

Without this happening, drunks will always have fights, boys will always be
boys and unless there's people in the vicinity to deal with situations,
before they kick off, then this current trend will not reverse.

"Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>  wrote in message 
> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>
>> Simple.
>
> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a sense 
> of right and wrong. Then of course, there is the issue of what to do when 
> they "stray". There is much talk of being "tough on crime" but once the 
> jails fill up that is just talk.
>
> Even in the days of  "Bobbies on the Beat"  the chances of one being "on 
> hand" when a crime was happening was, at best, remote.

Remote, but possible.

Nowadays the thugs know there's no chance of a copper being there.

"Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>  wrote in message 
> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>
>> Simple.
>
> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a sense 
> of right and wrong.

And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to deduce 
that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially youngsters)?

My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any that 
don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab him/her" when 
they were annoyed with someone.

I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are 
given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases. 
The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a politicised education 
system and media and movie industry that sexualises and glorifies violence 
along with certain genres of music that dwell on how "bitches" love a man 
that "shoots m*therf*ckers".

If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence on the 
TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If you constantly 
portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a weapon and "dealing" 
with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way then what affect do you 
think this has on impressionable minds.

Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by someone 
who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the individual.

Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, develop 
countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and issue a report 
that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to pay for it.  Yawn.





** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>
>>> Simple.
>>
>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a sense 
>> of right and wrong.
>
> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
> youngsters)?
>
> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab him/her" 
> when they were annoyed with someone.
>
> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are 
> given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases. 
> The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a politicised 
> education system and media and movie industry that sexualises and 
> glorifies violence along with certain genres of music that dwell on how 
> "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>
> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence on 
> the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If you 
> constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a weapon and 
> "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way then what 
> affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>
> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by someone 
> who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the individual.
>
> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, develop 
> countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and issue a 
> report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to pay for it. 
> Yawn.

Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you were 
saying.

Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political hue, 
without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as "Stalinist" or 
"dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for ideas on how to tackle 
the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've a lot of sympathy with its 
general sentiments, then a ban, or some form of censorship of media (film, 
TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, newspapers) will be necessary.  Does 
that suit your generally libertarian views? Should this be debated?  Should 
people's opinions be sought?  How about more changes to the "politicised 
education system" - should these be imposed by central dictat or should 
there be some form of debate and consultation in order to arrive at a 
consensus?

-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message
news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message
> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>  wrote in message
>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>
>>>> Simple.
>>>
>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a
>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>
>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to
>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially
>> youngsters)?
>>
>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any
>> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab
>> him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.
>>
>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least
>> are given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of
>> cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a
>> politicised education system and media and movie industry that
>> sexualises and glorifies violence along with certain genres of music
>> that dwell on how "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>
>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence
>> on the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If
>> you constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a
>> weapon and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way
>> then what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>
>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by
>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the
>> individual.
>>
>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals,
>> develop countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and
>> issue a report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to
>> pay for it. Yawn.
>
> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you
> were saying.
>
> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political
> hue, without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as
> "Stalinist" or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for ideas
> on how to tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've a lot
> of sympathy with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some form of
> censorship of media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games,
> newspapers) will be necessary.  Does that suit your generally
> libertarian views? Should this be debated?  Should people's opinions be
> sought?  How about more changes to the "politicised education system" -
> should these be imposed by central dictat or should there be some form
> of debate and consultation in order to arrive at a consensus?

Hmm, I'm of a libertarian inclination but that does not mean I'm entitled
to encroach on other peoples "space" and they are not entitled to encroach
on mine. I watched the play on Mary Whitehouse the other night. I admit to
thinking in the 60s she was off the wall but with hindsight what she was
preaching then is now becoming popular and makes sense.

I take a very cynical view of this government's latest mantra that it is
"listening". It doesn't listen to the majority view for the restoration of
capital punishment. It didn't listen to the majority view for a referendum
over the new EU treaty, it didn't listen when millions demonstrated
against invading Iraq, it didn't listen when it was told it's tax raid on
pensions would harm future pensioners, and it didn't listen last year when
it was told that abolishing the 10p tax rate would hurt the poorest. Now,
with the public demonstrating that enough is enough, Labour MP's in revolt
because they can see themselves out of work in 2 years time, the
government is justifying one unprincipled U-turn a day for it's own
survival by saying it's "listening". You can't fool all the people all the
time!

"Toooldtocare"  wrote in message 
news:ZdydncXdTcXRgt3VnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
> I take a very cynical view of this government's latest mantra that it is
> "listening". It doesn't listen to the majority view for the restoration 
> of
> capital punishment. It didn't listen to the majority view for a 
> referendum
> over the new EU treaty, it didn't listen when millions demonstrated
> against invading Iraq, it didn't listen when it was told it's tax raid 
> on
> pensions would harm future pensioners, and it didn't listen last year 
> when
> it was told that abolishing the 10p tax rate would hurt the poorest. 
> Now,
> with the public demonstrating that enough is enough, Labour MP's in 
> revolt
> because they can see themselves out of work in 2 years time, the
> government is justifying one unprincipled U-turn a day for it's own
> survival by saying it's "listening". You can't fool all the people all 
> the
> time!

Before Harry jumps in I've already noticed the two incorrect apostrophes! 
:-)

"Toooldtocare"  wrote in message
news:ZdydncXdTcXRgt3VnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
> I take a very cynical view of this government's latest mantra that it is
> "listening". It doesn't listen to the majority view for the restoration
> of
> capital punishment. It didn't listen to the majority view for a
> referendum
> over the new EU treaty, it didn't listen when millions demonstrated
> against invading Iraq, it didn't listen when it was told it's tax raid
> on
> pensions would harm future pensioners, and it didn't listen last year
> when
> it was told that abolishing the 10p tax rate would hurt the poorest.
> Now,
> with the public demonstrating that enough is enough, Labour MP's in
> revolt
> because they can see themselves out of work in 2 years time, the
> government is justifying one unprincipled U-turn a day for it's own
> survival by saying it's "listening". You can't fool all the people all
> the
> time!

Before Harry jumps in I've already noticed the two incorrect apostrophes!
:-)

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>
>>> Simple.
>>
>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>> sense of right and wrong.
>
> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
> youngsters)?
>
> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab him/her" 
> when they were annoyed with someone.
>
> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are 
> given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of 
> cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a politicised 
> education system and media and movie industry that sexualises and 
> glorifies violence along with certain genres of music that dwell on how 
> "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>
> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence on 
> the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If you 
> constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a weapon 
> and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way then 
> what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>
> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the 
> individual.

Exactly! Our education system now brings children up to believe that if 
they fail at anything, exams, riding a bike, a good complexion, not being 
rich, not being a "star", you name it, they have been "wronged"! Failure 
has been abolished from the vocabulary. This is one thing that the yanks 
can teach us. In the US failure is seen as an opportunity to learn from 
experience. Here. the liberal left have persuaded the population that 
failure is a social injustice!

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>  wrote in message 
>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>
>>>> Simple.
>>>
>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>
>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
>> youngsters)?
>>
>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
>> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab him/her" 
>> when they were annoyed with someone.
>>
>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are 
>> given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases. 
>> The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a politicised 
>> education system and media and movie industry that sexualises and 
>> glorifies violence along with certain genres of music that dwell on how 
>> "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>
>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence on 
>> the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If you 
>> constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a weapon 
>> and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way then what 
>> affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>
>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the individual.
>>
>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, develop 
>> countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and issue a 
>> report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to pay for 
>> it. Yawn.
>
> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you 
> were saying.
>
> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political hue, 
> without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as "Stalinist" 
> or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for ideas on how to 
> tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've a lot of sympathy 
> with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some form of censorship of 
> media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, newspapers) will be 
> necessary.  Does that suit your generally libertarian views? Should this 
> be debated?  Should people's opinions be sought?  How about more changes 
> to the "politicised education system" - should these be imposed by central 
> dictat or should there be some form of debate and consultation in order to 
> arrive at a consensus?

I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural socialist 
solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the same way as 
you. 


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Hatter"  wrote in message
news:5f030$48497c85$8964@news.teranews.com...
>
> > I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural
> > socialist
> solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the same way as
> you.

"natural socialist"? I like that and will remember it. No quoting the
source though, I'm a plagiarist these days.

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:5f030$48497c85$8964@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
> news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>>
>>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
>>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>>
>>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
>>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
>>> youngsters)?
>>>
>>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
>>> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab him/her" 
>>> when they were annoyed with someone.
>>>
>>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are 
>>> given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of 
>>> cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a politicised 
>>> education system and media and movie industry that sexualises and 
>>> glorifies violence along with certain genres of music that dwell on how 
>>> "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>>
>>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence on 
>>> the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If you 
>>> constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a weapon 
>>> and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way then 
>>> what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>>
>>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
>>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the 
>>> individual.
>>>
>>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, develop 
>>> countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and issue a 
>>> report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to pay for 
>>> it. Yawn.
>>
>> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you 
>> were saying.
>>
>> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political hue, 
>> without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as "Stalinist" 
>> or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for ideas on how to 
>> tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've a lot of sympathy 
>> with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some form of censorship of 
>> media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, newspapers) will be 
>> necessary.  Does that suit your generally libertarian views? Should this 
>> be debated?  Should people's opinions be sought?  How about more changes 
>> to the "politicised education system" - should these be imposed by 
>> central dictat or should there be some form of debate and consultation in 
>> order to arrive at a consensus?
>
> I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural socialist 
> solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the same way as 
> you.

[1] I obviously don't think the same way as you, this is the point.

[2] So what's your answer? How will you deal with the problem?  How will you 
prevent growing minds from being exposed to a constant barrage of sex and 
violence?  Given that you don't think parents are the problem, where and to 
whom do you apply the leverage to force a change?  If you don't think 
censorship is the answer either, that rules out taking action against the 
people who produce the barrage of sex and violence.  Where does that leave 
us?  Ah, yes, the "politicised education system".  How precisely do you 
change things so that the "politicised education system"* does not teach 
young people to watch TV and films (presumably despite the wishes of their 
blameless parents) or read newspapers or play violent computer games.

(* Any chance you could explain exactly what you mean by this term?)


-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:XFh2k.149677$cZ3.137914@newsfe10.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
> news:5f030$48497c85$8964@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
>> news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>>> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
>>>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>>>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>>>
>>>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
>>>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
>>>> youngsters)?
>>>>
>>>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
>>>> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab 
>>>> him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least 
>>>> are given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of 
>>>> cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a 
>>>> politicised education system and media and movie industry that 
>>>> sexualises and glorifies violence along with certain genres of music 
>>>> that dwell on how "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>>>
>>>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence 
>>>> on the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If 
>>>> you constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a 
>>>> weapon and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way 
>>>> then what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>>>
>>>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
>>>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the 
>>>> individual.
>>>>
>>>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, 
>>>> develop countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and 
>>>> issue a report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to 
>>>> pay for it. Yawn.
>>>
>>> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you 
>>> were saying.
>>>
>>> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political 
>>> hue, without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as 
>>> "Stalinist" or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for ideas 
>>> on how to tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've a lot 
>>> of sympathy with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some form of 
>>> censorship of media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, 
>>> newspapers) will be necessary.  Does that suit your generally 
>>> libertarian views? Should this be debated?  Should people's opinions be 
>>> sought?  How about more changes to the "politicised education system" - 
>>> should these be imposed by central dictat or should there be some form 
>>> of debate and consultation in order to arrive at a consensus?
>>
>> I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural socialist 
>> solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the same way as 
>> you.
>
> [1] I obviously don't think the same way as you, this is the point.

obviously.

> [2] So what's your answer? How will you deal with the problem?  How will 
> you prevent growing minds from being exposed to a constant barrage of sex 
> and

i already have dealt with it - which is why my children are such well 
balanced, affectionate and caring individuals.

> violence?  Given that you don't think parents are the problem, where and 
> to whom do you apply the leverage to force a change?  If you don't think

Force.... change .....apply ... leverage

Amazing you lot INVADED Iraq on a whim isn't it... still, at least you 
aren't nasty racist right wing thugs like the likes of me, eh?  Guardian 
bullets are so much more civilised and intellectual aren't they?

> censorship is the answer either, that rules out taking action against the 
> people who produce the barrage of sex and violence.  Where does that leave 
> us?  Ah, yes, the "politicised education system".  How precisely do you 
> change things so that the "politicised education system"* does not teach 
> young people to watch TV and films (presumably despite the wishes of their 
> blameless parents) or read newspapers or play violent computer games.
>
> (* Any chance you could explain exactly what you mean by this term?)

No, i think i'll leave you to stew over it. lol.  It seems to have hit a 
nerve. 


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:492b7$4849e07b$20338@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
> news:XFh2k.149677$cZ3.137914@newsfe10.ams2...
>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>> news:5f030$48497c85$8964@news.teranews.com...
>>>
>>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
>>> news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>>>>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
>>>>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
>>>>> youngsters)?
>>>>>
>>>>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet any 
>>>>> that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab 
>>>>> him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least 
>>>>> are given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of 
>>>>> cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a 
>>>>> politicised education system and media and movie industry that 
>>>>> sexualises and glorifies violence along with certain genres of music 
>>>>> that dwell on how "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>>>>
>>>>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence 
>>>>> on the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If 
>>>>> you constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a 
>>>>> weapon and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal way 
>>>>> then what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
>>>>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the 
>>>>> individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, 
>>>>> develop countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and 
>>>>> issue a report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes to 
>>>>> pay for it. Yawn.
>>>>
>>>> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what you 
>>>> were saying.
>>>>
>>>> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political 
>>>> hue, without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as 
>>>> "Stalinist" or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for 
>>>> ideas on how to tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've 
>>>> a lot of sympathy with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some form 
>>>> of censorship of media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, 
>>>> newspapers) will be necessary.  Does that suit your generally 
>>>> libertarian views? Should this be debated?  Should people's opinions be 
>>>> sought?  How about more changes to the "politicised education system" - 
>>>> should these be imposed by central dictat or should there be some form 
>>>> of debate and consultation in order to arrive at a consensus?
>>>
>>> I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural socialist 
>>> solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the same way as 
>>> you.
>>
>> [1] I obviously don't think the same way as you, this is the point.
>
> obviously.
>
>> [2] So what's your answer? How will you deal with the problem?  How will 
>> you prevent growing minds from being exposed to a constant barrage of sex 
>> and
>
> i already have dealt with it - which is why my children are such well 
> balanced, affectionate and caring individuals.
>
>> violence?  Given that you don't think parents are the problem, where and 
>> to whom do you apply the leverage to force a change?  If you don't think
>
> Force.... change .....apply ... leverage
>
> Amazing you lot INVADED Iraq on a whim isn't it... still, at least you 
> aren't nasty racist right wing thugs like the likes of me, eh?  Guardian 
> bullets are so much more civilised and intellectual aren't they?
>
>> censorship is the answer either, that rules out taking action against the 
>> people who produce the barrage of sex and violence.  Where does that 
>> leave us?  Ah, yes, the "politicised education system".  How precisely do 
>> you change things so that the "politicised education system"* does not 
>> teach young people to watch TV and films (presumably despite the wishes 
>> of their blameless parents) or read newspapers or play violent computer 
>> games.
>>
>> (* Any chance you could explain exactly what you mean by this term?)
>
> No, i think i'll leave you to stew over it. lol.  It seems to have hit a 
> nerve.

So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:rdv2k.6906$X6.3108@newsfe30.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
> news:492b7$4849e07b$20338@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
>> news:XFh2k.149677$cZ3.137914@newsfe10.ams2...
>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>>> news:5f030$48497c85$8964@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:ucQ%j.30405$SA7.1559@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:baaac$483d98c9$4052@news.teranews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brian Reay" <see@website.invalid> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:VnO_j.68136$UP6.11186@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:YtE_j.13968$%B6.10950@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>>>>>> Its because there's no plods on the beat any more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Simple.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it is because people (esp. youngsters) aren't brought up with a 
>>>>>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this is based on which study?  What was the sample amount used to 
>>>>>> deduce that all people had no sense of right and wrong (especially 
>>>>>> youngsters)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have yet to meet 
>>>>>> any that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to stab 
>>>>>> him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority at least 
>>>>>> are given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority 
>>>>>> of cases. The problem is their "re-education" at the hands of a 
>>>>>> politicised education system and media and movie industry that 
>>>>>> sexualises and glorifies violence along with certain genres of music 
>>>>>> that dwell on how "bitches" love a man that "shoots m*therf*ckers".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you expose growing minds to a constant barrage of sex and violence 
>>>>>> on the TV, movies, videos, music then what do you expect to get?  If 
>>>>>> you constantly portray the "wronged man" as a hero for picking up a 
>>>>>> weapon and "dealing" with his wrongdoers in a violent, often fatal 
>>>>>> way then what affect do you think this has on impressionable minds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bet you not one of the recent murders by knife were perpetrated by 
>>>>>> someone who didn't think they'd been somehow "wronged" by the 
>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, i expect New Labia will set up a committee of their pals, 
>>>>>> develop countrywide focus groups, vote themselves another payrise and 
>>>>>> issue a report that will blame parents - then raise some more taxes 
>>>>>> to pay for it. Yawn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Up to the penultimate paragraph I actually agreed with most of what 
>>>>> you were saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that any action taken by any government, of whatever political 
>>>>> hue, without prior consultation will always be labelled by you as 
>>>>> "Stalinist" or "dictatorial", what is so wrong with canvassing for 
>>>>> ideas on how to tackle the problem?  If your thesis is sound, and I've 
>>>>> a lot of sympathy with its general sentiments, then a ban, or some 
>>>>> form of censorship of media (film, TV, magazines, arcade and PC games, 
>>>>> newspapers) will be necessary.  Does that suit your generally 
>>>>> libertarian views? Should this be debated?  Should people's opinions 
>>>>> be sought?  How about more changes to the "politicised education 
>>>>> system" - should these be imposed by central dictat or should there be 
>>>>> some form of debate and consultation in order to arrive at a 
>>>>> consensus?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say we should ban anything.  Just because the natural 
>>>> socialist solution is censorship ... don't presume that i think in the 
>>>> same way as you.
>>>
>>> [1] I obviously don't think the same way as you, this is the point.
>>
>> obviously.
>>
>>> [2] So what's your answer? How will you deal with the problem?  How will 
>>> you prevent growing minds from being exposed to a constant barrage of 
>>> sex and
>>
>> i already have dealt with it - which is why my children are such well 
>> balanced, affectionate and caring individuals.
>>
>>> violence?  Given that you don't think parents are the problem, where and 
>>> to whom do you apply the leverage to force a change?  If you don't think
>>
>> Force.... change .....apply ... leverage
>>
>> Amazing you lot INVADED Iraq on a whim isn't it... still, at least you 
>> aren't nasty racist right wing thugs like the likes of me, eh?  Guardian 
>> bullets are so much more civilised and intellectual aren't they?
>>
>>> censorship is the answer either, that rules out taking action against 
>>> the people who produce the barrage of sex and violence.  Where does that 
>>> leave us?  Ah, yes, the "politicised education system".  How precisely 
>>> do you change things so that the "politicised education system"* does 
>>> not teach young people to watch TV and films (presumably despite the 
>>> wishes of their blameless parents) or read newspapers or play violent 
>>> computer games.
>>>
>>> (* Any chance you could explain exactly what you mean by this term?)
>>
>> No, i think i'll leave you to stew over it. lol.  It seems to have hit a 
>> nerve.
>
> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?

I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that anywhere 
oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in particular. 


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:adfa$484bcf0f$27141@news.teranews.com...
>

<snip>

>> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
>> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
>
> I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that anywhere 
> oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in particular.

On re-reading your posts I have to agree - you're absolutely right.  You 
did, however, say:   "My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I have 
yet to meet  any that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm going to 
stab him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.  I'd like to suggest that 
all children or a massive majority at least are given a sense of right and 
wrong by their parents in a majority of cases."

So, back to my question.  Given that a majority of parents instill a sense 
of right and wrong in their children, and that you have never met any 
children who don't have a sense of right and wrong, why do all these 
stabbings occur and what would you do to stop them?  What is your answer? 
(Candidates should note that responses which seek to heap blame on various 
parties such as "the media" and "New Labour" without actually putting 
forward any positive, constructive solutions will not be awarded any marks.)
-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:tnh3k.103294$Ex2.33806@newsfe12.ams2...
>
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
> news:adfa$484bcf0f$27141@news.teranews.com...
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
>>> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
>>
>> I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that anywhere 
>> oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in particular.
>
> On re-reading your posts I have to agree - you're absolutely right.  You 
> did, however, say:   "My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I 
> have yet to meet  any that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm 
> going to stab him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.  I'd like to 
> suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are given a sense 
> of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases."
>
> So, back to my question.  Given that a majority of parents instill a sense 
> of right and wrong in their children, and that you have never met any 
> children who don't have a sense of right and wrong, why do all these 
> stabbings occur and what would you do to stop them?  What is your answer?

Stab 'em 


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Hatter"  wrote in message 
news:2ffbf$4853e96b$22503@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
> news:tnh3k.103294$Ex2.33806@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>> news:adfa$484bcf0f$27141@news.teranews.com...
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
>>>> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
>>>
>>> I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that 
>>> anywhere oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in 
>>> particular.
>>
>> On re-reading your posts I have to agree - you're absolutely right.  You 
>> did, however, say:   "My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I 
>> have yet to meet  any that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm 
>> going to stab him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.  I'd like to 
>> suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are given a 
>> sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases."
>>
>> So, back to my question.  Given that a majority of parents instill a 
>> sense of right and wrong in their children, and that you have never met 
>> any children who don't have a sense of right and wrong, why do all these 
>> stabbings occur and what would you do to stop them?  What is your answer?
>
> Stab 'em

Presumably because hangin's too good for 'em?  What about bringing back the 
birch?
-- 
Harry Keane

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message
news:5_a5k.84853$X6.40510@newsfe30.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message
> news:2ffbf$4853e96b$22503@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message
>> news:tnh3k.103294$Ex2.33806@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>
>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message
>>> news:adfa$484bcf0f$27141@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect
>>>>> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
>>>>
>>>> I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that
>>>> anywhere oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in
>>>> particular.
>>>
>>> On re-reading your posts I have to agree - you're absolutely right.
>>> You did, however, say:   "My youngsters have a sense of right and
>>> wrong - I have yet to meet  any that don't.  I've never met anyone
>>> that said "i'm going to stab him/her" when they were annoyed with
>>> someone.  I'd like to suggest that all children or a massive majority
>>> at least are given a sense of right and wrong by their parents in a
>>> majority of cases."
>>>
>>> So, back to my question.  Given that a majority of parents instill a
>>> sense of right and wrong in their children, and that you have never
>>> met any children who don't have a sense of right and wrong, why do all
>>> these stabbings occur and what would you do to stop them?  What is
>>> your answer?
>>
>> Stab 'em
>
> Presumably because hangin's too good for 'em?  What about bringing back
> the birch?

Now you are talking! I might sound like one of those 1950 Tory oiks, aka
Gerald Nabarro and his ilk, but it didn't do me any harm. Well, not
exactly the birch, just six of the best, and it was the Head's best,
bloody hurt, at school for some minor misdemeanour, like being found in
the girls school at "dinner-time". I'm a great believer in the principle,
if you do something wrong you should suffer. And appropriately. Can any
one argue with that? (Being found in the girls school at dinner-time was
very wrong apparently :-))
In principle I believe in an eye for an eye. I see nothing wrong in it,
capital punishment is a fitting punishment for murder. The thing
against it is the possibility of a mistake, the only reason for not having
it in my view. It has nothing to do with a "civilised society", the reason
the "liberal" ( a curious term for the illiberal) elite are against it. It
has to do with just punishment and revenge, very noble reasons according
to Shakespeare. And if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me!

> > Presumably because hangin's too good for 'em?  What about bringing back
> > the birch?
>
> Now you are talking!

> In principle I believe in an eye for an eye. I see nothing wrong in it,
> capital punishment is a fitting punishment for murder. The thing
> against it is the possibility of a mistake, the only reason for not having
> it in my view. It has nothing to do with a "civilised society", the reason
> the "liberal" ( a curious term for the illiberal) elite are against it. It
> has to do with just punishment and revenge, very noble reasons according
> to Shakespeare. And if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me!

I think the abolition of capital punishment was more to do with religion,
wasn't it? Its not a very Christian thing to kill someone - let God deal
with them, I think was the general argument...

Oh and Shakespeare didn't necessarily advocate punishment and revenge, he
merely wrote about them, presumerably because they are popular themes. As
you have highlighted.

Death to murderers? I'd largely agree, but I'd certainly like judges to look
up the word 'life' when handing out 'life sentences'. Life, means life -
i.e., imprisonment for the entire remaining life of the perpetrator of the
crime. 7 years is not 'life' and 'life' cannot be bargained downwards with
any subsequent 'good behaviour'.

We seem to live in a world of Faustian judges, who have a lot to answer for
in the current state of our society.

wrote in message news:Nbh7k.18799$zs1.62@newsfe28.ams2...
>> > Presumably because hangin's too good for 'em?  What about bringing 
>> > back
>> > the birch?
>>
>> Now you are talking!
>
>> In principle I believe in an eye for an eye. I see nothing wrong in it,
>> capital punishment is a fitting punishment for murder. The thing
>> against it is the possibility of a mistake, the only reason for not 
>> having
>> it in my view. It has nothing to do with a "civilised society", the 
>> reason
>> the "liberal" ( a curious term for the illiberal) elite are against it. 
>> It
>> has to do with just punishment and revenge, very noble reasons 
>> according
>> to Shakespeare. And if it was good enough for him it's good enough for 
>> me!
>
> I think the abolition of capital punishment was more to do with 
> religion,
> wasn't it? Its not a very Christian thing to kill someone - let God deal
> with them, I think was the general argument...

You must have listened to different debates in Parliament than me then 
because I don't recall God or Christianity mentioned. I'd go so far as to 
say that "believers" might be the majority in favour when it comes to 
capital punishment.

>
> Oh and Shakespeare didn't necessarily advocate punishment and revenge, 
> he
> merely wrote about them, presumerably because they are popular themes. 
> As
> you have highlighted.

Lol, he merely wrote about them? Do you know what he actually thought 
then?

>
> Death to murderers? I'd largely agree, but I'd certainly like judges to 
> look
> up the word 'life' when handing out 'life sentences'. Life, means life -
> i.e., imprisonment for the entire remaining life of the perpetrator of 
> the
> crime. 7 years is not 'life' and 'life' cannot be bargained downwards 
> with
> any subsequent 'good behaviour'.
>
> We seem to live in a world of Faustian judges, who have a lot to answer 
> for
> in the current state of our society.

I don't think so. I think judges in the UK still try and apply the law as 
defined by Act of Parliament. If the result is absurb, blame the 
lawmakers, not the judges. Was it not this government who placed  the 
European Human Rights Act on the statute book? It is largely that Act 
which has brought the law into disrepute with the public.

"Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
news:5_a5k.84853$X6.40510@newsfe30.ams2...
> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
> news:2ffbf$4853e96b$22503@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Harry Keane"  wrote in message 
>> news:tnh3k.103294$Ex2.33806@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>
>>> "The Hatter"  wrote in message 
>>> news:adfa$484bcf0f$27141@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> So, other than the recommendation that all parents copy your perfect 
>>>>> parenting skills, you don't have an answer then?
>>>>
>>>> I've scanned through my last post and I don't see me saying that 
>>>> anywhere oddly enough.  None of us are perfect parents - me in 
>>>> particular.
>>>
>>> On re-reading your posts I have to agree - you're absolutely right.  You 
>>> did, however, say:   "My youngsters have a sense of right and wrong - I 
>>> have yet to meet  any that don't.  I've never met anyone that said "i'm 
>>> going to stab him/her" when they were annoyed with someone.  I'd like to 
>>> suggest that all children or a massive majority at least are given a 
>>> sense of right and wrong by their parents in a majority of cases."
>>>
>>> So, back to my question.  Given that a majority of parents instill a 
>>> sense of right and wrong in their children, and that you have never met 
>>> any children who don't have a sense of right and wrong, why do all these 
>>> stabbings occur and what would you do to stop them?  What is your 
>>> answer?
>>
>> Stab 'em
>
> Presumably because hangin's too good for 'em?  What about bringing back 
> the birch?

naaaa... just stab em up, innit. 


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **