you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the religion 
of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to counter the 
Christian faith.

john wrote:
> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the religion 
> of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to counter the 
> Christian faith. 
> 
> 
bollocks..They both worship the same god along with the Jews..call him 
the devil if you will

no they don't, beware of the devil wearing sheep skin, Islam worships the 
son of the devil Mohammed who pretended to be a follower of God in order to 
setup the Islamic religion but the real intention is to destroy and murder 
Christians and other religions that threaten the World domination by the 
Devil.
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:4ZudnaVIS_QVp67VnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@bt.com...
> john wrote:
>> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
>> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
>> counter the Christian faith.
> bollocks..They both worship the same god along with the Jews..call him the 
> devil if you will

john wrote:
> no they don't, beware of the devil wearing sheep skin, Islam worships the 
> son of the devil Mohammed who pretended to be a follower of God in order to 
> setup the Islamic religion but the real intention is to destroy and murder 
> Christians and other religions that threaten the World domination by the 
> Devil.
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:4ZudnaVIS_QVp67VnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@bt.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
>>> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
>>> counter the Christian faith.
>> bollocks..They both worship the same god along with the Jews..call him the 
>> devil if you will 
> 
> 
You know nothing of theology, religion or history.

Islam is trying to do exactly what christianity has done...no christian 
can condemn Islam.

The only condemnation that is worth its words is that from the humanist, 
too whom all religion is crime

If we discuss about the origin and birth of Islam than it is essential to 
understand the events associated with the founding of Islam and the work of 
The Prophet. Although Islam was created with high and noble spiritual aims, 
and has grown to be the inspiration of millions of worshippers worldwide, 
one must remember it was originally formed within the context of direct 
battle against 'the West', in the form of the Roman (Byzantine) Empire. It 
is important to know the context of the formation of Islam and to understand 
because it makes possible for its adherents to interpret Islam today either 
as 'a war against greed, immorality and idolatry' and the 'uniting of a 
nation (world)' - or as 'a war on Jews and Christians, and a battle between 
good (the East) and evil (the West)'
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:I-WdneqtVqiib6rVnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com...
> john wrote:
>> no they don't, beware of the devil wearing sheep skin, Islam worships the 
>> son of the devil Mohammed who pretended to be a follower of God in order 
>> to setup the Islamic religion but the real intention is to destroy and 
>> murder Christians and other religions that threaten the World domination 
>> by the Devil.
>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>> news:4ZudnaVIS_QVp67VnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@bt.com...
>>> john wrote:
>>>> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
>>>> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
>>>> counter the Christian faith.
>>> bollocks..They both worship the same god along with the Jews..call him 
>>> the devil if you will
>>
>>
> You know nothing of theology, religion or history.
>
> Islam is trying to do exactly what christianity has done...no christian 
> can condemn Islam.
>
> The only condemnation that is worth its words is that from the humanist, 
> too whom all religion is crime

john wrote:
> If we discuss about the origin and birth of Islam than it is essential to 
> understand the events associated with the founding of Islam and the work of 
> The Prophet. Although Islam was created with high and noble spiritual aims, 
> and has grown to be the inspiration of millions of worshippers worldwide, 
> one must remember it was originally formed within the context of direct 
> battle against 'the West', in the form of the Roman (Byzantine) Empire. It 
> is important to know the context of the formation of Islam and to understand 
> because it makes possible for its adherents to interpret Islam today either 
> as 'a war against greed, immorality and idolatry' and the 'uniting of a 
> nation (world)' - or as 'a war on Jews and Christians, and a battle between 
> good (the East) and evil (the West)'
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:I-WdneqtVqiib6rVnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> no they don't, beware of the devil wearing sheep skin, Islam worships the 
>>> son of the devil Mohammed who pretended to be a follower of God in order 
>>> to setup the Islamic religion but the real intention is to destroy and 
>>> murder Christians and other religions that threaten the World domination 
>>> by the Devil.
>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>> news:4ZudnaVIS_QVp67VnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> john wrote:
>>>>> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
>>>>> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
>>>>> counter the Christian faith.
>>>> bollocks..They both worship the same god along with the Jews..call him 
>>>> the devil if you will
>>>
>> You know nothing of theology, religion or history.
>>
>> Islam is trying to do exactly what christianity has done...no christian 
>> can condemn Islam.
>>
>> The only condemnation that is worth its words is that from the humanist, 
>> too whom all religion is crime 
> 
> 
if you are going to cut and paste at least do it from a proper source. 
Islam, Christianity and Judism are decended from Abraham, hence they are 
called the Abrahamic religions.

Islams supposed war with the West, follows the Wests actual war with 
Islam for nearly 1000 years.  Islam doesn't need to go to war with the 
west at the rate they are gaining converts throughout Eastern Europe in 
the post communist vacuum and the rate that this is crossing into 
Western Europe, the replacement of Christianity by Islam (for those for 
whom religion is a worry) will be by diplomatic means, not war.

But who really cares, by the time it happens Islam will be a shadow of 
its former self and Its world wide spread a disaster for its core origins

your wrong again. Mohammed was nothing to do with Abraham, he tried to claim 
Abraham was an Arab and that he was somehow related to him, another symptom 
of his mental health ( epileptic as well). Mohammed was cast out by his own 
people as a nutter, an addict to opium which explains his so called "visions 
of God". He did not construct the Koran and only gained power by 
slaughtering thousands who opposed his madness to declare himself Gods 
Prophet. He waged Wars on all non believers and murdered all who opposed him 
and his army of thugs. He openly preached that God gave him the right to 
kill all non believers with acts of murder ( just like his followers do 
today).He was a bigamist with 9 wives, a child molester with 12 years old 
girl as his wife and conducted incest with close relatives. All in all he 
was a worker of Evil of the Devil. Even today those Muslim that dare to 
oppose his teachings or change religion are murdered by his henchmen, 
terrorist, murdering scum. The only reason Islam survives today is from the 
fear of Muslims and anyone else who dares to challenge his doctrines, that 
they will be murdered by his devil army of murderers.
"john"  wrote in message 
news:QPGYj.72392$Nq2.64589@newsfe29.ams2...
> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
> counter the Christian faith.
>

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:RL%_j.20897$Ex2.5280@newsfe12.ams2...


> your wrong again. Mohammed was nothing to do with Abraham, he tried to 
> claim Abraham was an Arab and that he was somehow related to him, another 
> symptom of his mental health ( epileptic as well). Mohammed was cast out 
> by his own people as a nutter, an addict to opium which explains his so 
> called "visions of God". He did not construct the Koran and only gained 
> power by slaughtering thousands who opposed his madness to declare himself 
> Gods Prophet. He waged Wars on all non believers and murdered all who 
> opposed him and his army of thugs. He openly preached that God gave him 
> the right to kill all non believers with acts of murder ( just like his 
> followers do today).He was a bigamist with 9 wives, a child molester with 
> 12 years old girl as his wife and conducted incest with close relatives. 
> All in all he was a worker of Evil of the Devil. Even today those Muslim 
> that dare to oppose his teachings or change religion are murdered by his 
> henchmen, terrorist, murdering scum. The only reason Islam survives today 
> is from the fear of Muslims and anyone else who dares to challenge his 
> doctrines, that they will be murdered by his devil army of murderers.


Yep.. That's about right.
Oh, and the fact the koran was written 200 years later......passed down, 
word for word (you couldn't make this up could you...) over that time until 
it was committed to writings.... fantastic.
It's about as real as Harry Potter frankly..


Mark

mark wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
> 
> "john"  wrote in message 
> news:RL%_j.20897$Ex2.5280@newsfe12.ams2...
> 
> 
>> your wrong again. Mohammed was nothing to do with Abraham, he tried to 
>> claim Abraham was an Arab and that he was somehow related to him, another 
>> symptom of his mental health ( epileptic as well). Mohammed was cast out 
>> by his own people as a nutter, an addict to opium which explains his so 
>> called "visions of God". He did not construct the Koran and only gained 
>> power by slaughtering thousands who opposed his madness to declare himself 
>> Gods Prophet. He waged Wars on all non believers and murdered all who 
>> opposed him and his army of thugs. He openly preached that God gave him 
>> the right to kill all non believers with acts of murder ( just like his 
>> followers do today).He was a bigamist with 9 wives, a child molester with 
>> 12 years old girl as his wife and conducted incest with close relatives. 
>> All in all he was a worker of Evil of the Devil. Even today those Muslim 
>> that dare to oppose his teachings or change religion are murdered by his 
>> henchmen, terrorist, murdering scum. The only reason Islam survives today 
>> is from the fear of Muslims and anyone else who dares to challenge his 
>> doctrines, that they will be murdered by his devil army of murderers.
> 
> 
> Yep.. That's about right.
> Oh, and the fact the koran was written 200 years later......passed down, 
> word for word (you couldn't make this up could you...) over that time until 
> it was committed to writings.... fantastic.
> It's about as real as Harry Potter frankly..
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> It is exactly the same as Christianities history.  Muslims claim decent 
from one of Abrahams sons, Ishmail, whereas the Jews claim decent from 
another son.  The concept has nothing to do with Mohamed and was first 
decreed in the 17th century and became common in the 19th century

Rachel was 12 when she was married.  The Jews were ordered by God to 
murder and rape on his behalf.

It is impossible to damn one religion from the stance of another.  For 
every offense you perceive of Islam is also true of Christianity and 
Judeism.

Any attempt to stain Islam from a religious point of view also stains 
the christian

well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian being 
murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a Muslim and you 
want to change to Christianity then your more than likely to get beheaded! 
Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has no place in this World except 
to be that of the religion of the Devil.
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
> mark wrote:
>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>
>> "john"  wrote in message 
>> news:RL%_j.20897$Ex2.5280@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>>
>>> your wrong again. Mohammed was nothing to do with Abraham, he tried to 
>>> claim Abraham was an Arab and that he was somehow related to him, 
>>> another symptom of his mental health ( epileptic as well). Mohammed was 
>>> cast out by his own people as a nutter, an addict to opium which 
>>> explains his so called "visions of God". He did not construct the Koran 
>>> and only gained power by slaughtering thousands who opposed his madness 
>>> to declare himself Gods Prophet. He waged Wars on all non believers and 
>>> murdered all who opposed him and his army of thugs. He openly preached 
>>> that God gave him the right to kill all non believers with acts of 
>>> murder ( just like his followers do today).He was a bigamist with 9 
>>> wives, a child molester with 12 years old girl as his wife and conducted 
>>> incest with close relatives. All in all he was a worker of Evil of the 
>>> Devil. Even today those Muslim that dare to oppose his teachings or 
>>> change religion are murdered by his henchmen, terrorist, murdering scum. 
>>> The only reason Islam survives today is from the fear of Muslims and 
>>> anyone else who dares to challenge his doctrines, that they will be 
>>> murdered by his devil army of murderers.
>>
>>
>> Yep.. That's about right.
>> Oh, and the fact the koran was written 200 years later......passed down, 
>> word for word (you couldn't make this up could you...) over that time 
>> until it was committed to writings.... fantastic.
>> It's about as real as Harry Potter frankly..
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> It is exactly the same as Christianities history.  Muslims claim decent
> from one of Abrahams sons, Ishmail, whereas the Jews claim decent from 
> another son.  The concept has nothing to do with Mohamed and was first 
> decreed in the 17th century and became common in the 19th century
>
> Rachel was 12 when she was married.  The Jews were ordered by God to 
> murder and rape on his behalf.
>
> It is impossible to damn one religion from the stance of another.  For 
> every offense you perceive of Islam is also true of Christianity and 
> Judeism.
>
> Any attempt to stain Islam from a religious point of view also stains the 
> christian

john wrote:
> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian being 
> murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a Muslim and you 
> want to change to Christianity then your more than likely to get beheaded! 
> Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has no place in this World except 
> to be that of the religion of the Devil.
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>> mark wrote:
>>> X-No-Archive: yes
Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the Middle 
East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the Balkans 
were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and Albanians treated 
each other like animals.

Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities 
commited by Christians in Africa.

Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war

What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance

in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of their 
aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine tribes firing 
rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred going instead of 
agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes peacefully around the 
table. Israel has the right to defend itself against an enemy hell bent on 
destroying it. Muslims are always the aggressors its the way they been 
taught since birth to hate and kill all infidels ( non followers of their 
faith). This brain washing is the source of all their evil.
Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest with 
themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to dominate all 
humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all that's how their prophet 
Mohammed treated human beings.
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
> john wrote:
>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian 
>> being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a 
>> Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your more than likely 
>> to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has no place 
>> in this World except to be that of the religion of the Devil.
>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>> mark wrote:
>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the Middle 
> East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the Balkans 
> were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and Albanians treated 
> each other like animals.
>
> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities commited 
> by Christians in Africa.
>
> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>
> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance

john wrote:
> in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
> innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of their 
> aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine tribes firing 
> rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred going instead of 
> agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes peacefully around the 
> table. Israel has the right to defend itself against an enemy hell bent on 
> destroying it. Muslims are always the aggressors its the way they been 
> taught since birth to hate and kill all infidels ( non followers of their 
> faith). This brain washing is the source of all their evil.
> Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest with 
> themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to dominate all 
> humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all that's how their prophet 
> Mohammed treated human beings.
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian 
>>> being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a 
>>> Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your more than likely 
>>> to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has no place 
>>> in this World except to be that of the religion of the Devil.
>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>>> mark wrote:
>>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the Middle 
>> East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the Balkans 
>> were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and Albanians treated 
>> each other like animals.
>>
>> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities commited 
>> by Christians in Africa.
>>
>> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
>> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>>
>> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance 
> 
> 
you are a fool...you write like a teenager who can only bleat like a 
sheep.  Your religious bigotry is frightening and your studity even more 
so.  It is language like yours that will lead to war and the death of 
everything you hold dear.

Your only excuse is innocense and nievity, both of which you express in 
abundency.

yip. you lost the debate. Resorting to insults now, run out of sensible 
debate. I will chalk this one up as a success. By the way did you not hear 
that Iran wants a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth? 
Nice people those Muslims.
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:P-6dnTEly6APNqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> john wrote:
>> in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
>> innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of 
>> their aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine 
>> tribes firing rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred going 
>> instead of agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes peacefully 
>> around the table. Israel has the right to defend itself against an enemy 
>> hell bent on destroying it. Muslims are always the aggressors its the way 
>> they been taught since birth to hate and kill all infidels ( non 
>> followers of their faith). This brain washing is the source of all their 
>> evil.
>> Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest 
>> with themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to 
>> dominate all humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all that's 
>> how their prophet Mohammed treated human beings.
>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>> news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>> john wrote:
>>>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian 
>>>> being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a 
>>>> Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your more than 
>>>> likely to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has 
>>>> no place in this World except to be that of the religion of the Devil.
>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>>>> mark wrote:
>>>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the Middle 
>>> East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the Balkans 
>>> were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and Albanians treated 
>>> each other like animals.
>>>
>>> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities 
>>> commited by Christians in Africa.
>>>
>>> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
>>> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>>>
>>> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance
>>
>>
> you are a fool...you write like a teenager who can only bleat like a 
> sheep.  Your religious bigotry is frightening and your studity even more 
> so.  It is language like yours that will lead to war and the death of 
> everything you hold dear.
>
> Your only excuse is innocense and nievity, both of which you express in 
> abundency.
>

john wrote:
> yip. you lost the debate. Resorting to insults now, run out of sensible 
> debate. I will chalk this one up as a success. By the way did you not hear 
> that Iran wants a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth? 
> Nice people those Muslims.
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:P-6dnTEly6APNqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
>>> innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of 
>>> their aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine 
>>> tribes firing rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred going 
>>> instead of agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes peacefully 
>>> around the table. Israel has the right to defend itself against an enemy 
>>> hell bent on destroying it. Muslims are always the aggressors its the way 
>>> they been taught since birth to hate and kill all infidels ( non 
>>> followers of their faith). This brain washing is the source of all their 
>>> evil.
>>> Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest 
>>> with themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to 
>>> dominate all humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all that's 
>>> how their prophet Mohammed treated human beings.
>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>> news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> john wrote:
>>>>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian 
>>>>> being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a 
>>>>> Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your more than 
>>>>> likely to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam has 
>>>>> no place in this World except to be that of the religion of the Devil.
>>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>>>>> mark wrote:
>>>>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>>> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the Middle 
>>>> East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the Balkans 
>>>> were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and Albanians treated 
>>>> each other like animals.
>>>>
>>>> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities 
>>>> commited by Christians in Africa.
>>>>
>>>> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
>>>> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>>>>
>>>> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance
>>>
>> you are a fool...you write like a teenager who can only bleat like a 
>> sheep.  Your religious bigotry is frightening and your studity even more 
>> so.  It is language like yours that will lead to war and the death of 
>> everything you hold dear.
>>
>> Your only excuse is innocense and nievity, both of which you express in 
>> abundency.
>>
> 
> 
There was never a sensible debate to start with ...just you verbatim 
twaddle.

Israel has had nucleur bombs for decades for exactly the same reason.

All religions are monsterous murdering machines.

You can chalk this up anyway you want..It will not change the fact that 
you are as much a religious nut as any Muslim cleric who advocates 
war.....you are no different (except nobody takes any notice of you)

You should consider moving to the Southern States of America where your 
brand of bigotry is encouraged

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:uOg_j.6493$x55.5173@newsfe17.ams2...

> If we discuss about the origin and birth of Islam than it is essential to 
> understand the events associated with the founding of Islam and the work 
> of The Prophet. Although Islam was created with high and noble spiritual 
> aims, and has grown to be the inspiration of millions of worshippers 
> worldwide, one must remember it was originally formed within the context 
> of direct battle against 'the West', in the form of the Roman (Byzantine) 
> Empire. It is important to know the context of the formation of Islam and 
> to understand because it makes possible for its adherents to interpret 
> Islam today either as 'a war against greed, immorality and idolatry' and 
> the 'uniting of a nation (world)' - or as 'a war on Jews and Christians, 
> and a battle between good (the East) and evil (the West)'


Couple of things....... it's very much easier to follow your postings if you 
reply UNDER the poster you are replying to....

Secondly,   you are cutting and pasting from here :

http://www.festivalsinindia.net/barah-wafat/birth-of-islam.html

I wonder if,  indeed, you 'understand' the "context of the formation of 
Islam"......?

However, it is clear that both islam and christianity (...never mind 
judaism) are man made constructions and that the process of power and 
corruption are blindingly obvious in the same way that any organisation is 
prone to the same criteria.
The power and corruption of all religions has ben witnessed over the 
millenia and is seen today still in many shapes and forms.
The problem is not whether islam is better or worse (.....and here, it is 
but for a chance of birth that one might support one but not another 
religion..)than other religions, it is that ALL religion is equally corrupt 
and power driven.  This is not to do with personal faith it is to do with 
the organisation of those beliefs into a religion.
In spite of your apparent myopia in seeing christian (and jewish) 
shortcomings there is much historical evidence (..not opinion, but evidence) 
that shows all religions behaving inhumanely..
The real problem, john, is religion......fullstop.



Mark

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:BAF%j.36686$Ex2.25945@newsfe12.ams2...

>An example of their aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the 
>Palestine tribes firing rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of 
>hatred going instead of agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes 
>peacefully around the table. Israel has the right to defend itself against 
>an enemy hell bent on destroying it.


Yes.
Of course, skipping over the forced creation of the state of israel in the 
first place by the international community - the UN in 1947, who decreed 
there should be TWO states, one arab, one jewish (..Ha, 60 years later we 
still cannot get israel to recognise the 'other' state...!!) and the actual 
creation in 1948 of the *two* states.  (actually, just the one, so far....) 
Then skip over the 1967 'war' where israel just took and occupied arab 
lands.  Then ignore the numerous UN resolutions (242, for example,  calls 
for return of land occupied after 1967) and Geneva Convention mandates over 
the land occupied by israel.  Then ignore the return of some of those 
lands - but still nowhere near all - and the subsequent re-occupation of 
arab lands by israel.   Then ignore the illegal barrier erected around 
palestinien territory, the oppression of palestiniens' in their own land, 
the human rights of palestiniens deprived from them in their own 
lands....... you start to get the true picture.
I wonder.... if some others came in the night, put a fence around your 
town/city, refused you permission to leave and come back, denied you and 
your family  basic human rights such as hospitals, doctors, prevented 
anything more than basic fundamental needs from coming into your home 
town/city...........   what would you do..?
Say "let's all sit nicely round a table sometime" (even though the rest of 
the world has already told the occupiers of your town/city to do just that) 
and then you can give us our town/city back...?  But if you won't...well, 
that's alright then..
Or would you say, hey, this is our town/city, you have NO right to be here 
and if you don't up and go this instant we will take it back by force....?? 
what would you do..?
You see, there's probably too much history passed under the bridge already 
to work out a settlement at this point.  Although, of course, one answer 
would be for israel to give back ALL occupied territory and take the wall 
down (...they never work anyway..!).
Another helpful move would be for the US to condemn israel for its flagrant 
breach of international law and stop any aid until it does so......   and 
pigs might fly..!



Mark

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:V8R%j.23921$Zs3.18706@newsfe20.ams2...


> yip. you lost the debate. Resorting to insults now, run out of sensible 
> debate. I will chalk this one up as a success. By the way did you not hear 
> that Iran wants a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth? 
> Nice people those Muslims.

Did you here the one about the possible candidate for the next president of 
the US...?
Hilary Clinton...?   A good christian family  (ha...!).
"if Iran attacked israel, we (the US) will nuke them....."
[by definition, wiping the iranians .."off the face of the earth"]
Ironic...isn't it..?
Let's see where the differences are in this position..........



Mark

don't know where you been all these years but we have been at War for ages 
with the Muslims, their last mass slaughter of innocent people was the twin 
towers and since then countless more thousands of innocent people have died 
because of their declared war on all non believers. No doubt you advocate me 
having my head chopped off now for daring to openly speak out against Muslim 
acts of War against everyone and anyone. If they stopped the slaughter then 
perhaps others would not have to retaliate all the time. Islam is destroying 
itself thank goodness. Every act of violence by them, every suicide bombing 
adds to the downfall of Islam and the end of the pretence that it is a 
peaceful religion.
"KJ"  wrote in message 
news:OsmdnQ7pbvNnQqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> john wrote:
>> yip. you lost the debate. Resorting to insults now, run out of sensible 
>> debate. I will chalk this one up as a success. By the way did you not 
>> hear that Iran wants a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jews off the face of the 
>> Earth? Nice people those Muslims.
>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>> news:P-6dnTEly6APNqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> john wrote:
>>>> in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
>>>> innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of 
>>>> their aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine 
>>>> tribes firing rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred 
>>>> going instead of agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes 
>>>> peacefully around the table. Israel has the right to defend itself 
>>>> against an enemy hell bent on destroying it. Muslims are always the 
>>>> aggressors its the way they been taught since birth to hate and kill 
>>>> all infidels ( non followers of their faith). This brain washing is the 
>>>> source of all their evil.
>>>> Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest 
>>>> with themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to 
>>>> dominate all humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all that's 
>>>> how their prophet Mohammed treated human beings.
>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non Christian 
>>>>>> being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If you are a 
>>>>>> Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your more than 
>>>>>> likely to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with Islam. Islam 
>>>>>> has no place in this World except to be that of the religion of the 
>>>>>> Devil.
>>>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>>>>>> mark wrote:
>>>>>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>>>> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the 
>>>>> Middle East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in the 
>>>>> Balkans were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and 
>>>>> Albanians treated each other like animals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities 
>>>>> commited by Christians in Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
>>>>> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>>>>>
>>>>> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance
>>>>
>>> you are a fool...you write like a teenager who can only bleat like a 
>>> sheep.  Your religious bigotry is frightening and your studity even more 
>>> so.  It is language like yours that will lead to war and the death of 
>>> everything you hold dear.
>>>
>>> Your only excuse is innocense and nievity, both of which you express in 
>>> abundency.
>>>
>>
>>
> There was never a sensible debate to start with ...just you verbatim 
> twaddle.
>
> Israel has had nucleur bombs for decades for exactly the same reason.
>
> All religions are monsterous murdering machines.
>
> You can chalk this up anyway you want..It will not change the fact that 
> you are as much a religious nut as any Muslim cleric who advocates 
> war.....you are no different (except nobody takes any notice of you)
>
> You should consider moving to the Southern States of America where your 
> brand of bigotry is encouraged

The Jews have the right to occupy all lands that were theirs originally, 
there was never a Palestine state and there will never be one. As for 
H.Clinton statement, she was responding to yet another Muslim threat to Nuke 
Israel and the rest of World with it. As I have said previously the vicious 
circle of death wont stop until The Muslims declare a stop of their hatred 
to all non believers and accept that they have to exist along side other 
religions without resorting to mass murder all the time.
There is blame on all sides but Islam keeps stirring things up!
"john"  wrote in message 
news:wRf0k.12466$8z7.9445@newsfe30.ams2...
> don't know where you been all these years but we have been at War for ages 
> with the Muslims, their last mass slaughter of innocent people was the 
> twin towers and since then countless more thousands of innocent people 
> have died because of their declared war on all non believers. No doubt you 
> advocate me having my head chopped off now for daring to openly speak out 
> against Muslim acts of War against everyone and anyone. If they stopped 
> the slaughter then perhaps others would not have to retaliate all the 
> time. Islam is destroying itself thank goodness. Every act of violence by 
> them, every suicide bombing adds to the downfall of Islam and the end of 
> the pretence that it is a peaceful religion.
> "KJ"  wrote in message 
> news:OsmdnQ7pbvNnQqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> yip. you lost the debate. Resorting to insults now, run out of sensible 
>>> debate. I will chalk this one up as a success. By the way did you not 
>>> hear that Iran wants a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jews off the face of the 
>>> Earth? Nice people those Muslims.
>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>> news:P-6dnTEly6APNqLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> john wrote:
>>>>> in all those you claim the fighting was started by Muslims slaughter 
>>>>> innocent Christians and other people they call infidels! An example of 
>>>>> their aggression and provocations of fighting/wars is the Palestine 
>>>>> tribes firing rockets into Israel and keeping the flames of hatred 
>>>>> going instead of agreeing to join in talks to resolve their disputes 
>>>>> peacefully around the table. Israel has the right to defend itself 
>>>>> against an enemy hell bent on destroying it. Muslims are always the 
>>>>> aggressors its the way they been taught since birth to hate and kill 
>>>>> all infidels ( non followers of their faith). This brain washing is 
>>>>> the source of all their evil.
>>>>> Islam is a religion of hate and murder. The Muslims need to be honest 
>>>>> with themselves and the World and admit their sole intention is to 
>>>>> dominate all humans by use of murder, hatred and fear. After all 
>>>>> that's how their prophet Mohammed treated human beings.
>>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:P5WdnSxbAdh4TKDVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>> well I never heard of Christian suicide bombers! or any non 
>>>>>>> Christian being murdered because they change religions to Islam. If 
>>>>>>> you are a Muslim and you want to change to Christianity then your 
>>>>>>> more than likely to get beheaded! Fear keeps Arabs staying with 
>>>>>>> Islam. Islam has no place in this World except to be that of the 
>>>>>>> religion of the Devil.
>>>>>>> "KJ"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:E8Gdnat3BrDNoqDVRVnyvQA@bt.com...
>>>>>>>> mark wrote:
>>>>>>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>>>>> Then you have very little knowledge of Christian Militias in the 
>>>>>> Middle East in recent times..Have no knowledge of the struggles in 
>>>>>> the Balkans were Islamic and Christian serbs, Croats, Kosovon and 
>>>>>> Albanians treated each other like animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never heard of the suicide bombers in America and the atrocities 
>>>>>> commited by Christians in Africa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Islam is the largest growing religion in the west from voluntary 
>>>>>> conversion...you kind of nonsense will create a war
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is required is level heads not monstrous religious ignorance
>>>>>
>>>> you are a fool...you write like a teenager who can only bleat like a 
>>>> sheep.  Your religious bigotry is frightening and your studity even 
>>>> more so.  It is language like yours that will lead to war and the death 
>>>> of everything you hold dear.
>>>>
>>>> Your only excuse is innocense and nievity, both of which you express in 
>>>> abundency.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> There was never a sensible debate to start with ...just you verbatim 
>> twaddle.
>>
>> Israel has had nucleur bombs for decades for exactly the same reason.
>>
>> All religions are monsterous murdering machines.
>>
>> You can chalk this up anyway you want..It will not change the fact that 
>> you are as much a religious nut as any Muslim cleric who advocates 
>> war.....you are no different (except nobody takes any notice of you)
>>
>> You should consider moving to the Southern States of America where your 
>> brand of bigotry is encouraged
>
>

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:FZf0k.12467$8z7.1994@newsfe30.ams2...

> The Jews have the right to occupy all lands that were theirs originally,



Erm......  which were what and where..?


> there was never a Palestine state and there will never be one.

....and for that very reason there will be no end to the violence and wars..


>As for H.Clinton statement, she was responding to yet another Muslim threat 
>to Nuke Israel and the rest of World with it.


I see.     So It's not ok for Iran...but it's ok for the US...??

>As I have said previously the vicious circle of death wont stop until The 
>Muslims declare a stop of their hatred to all non believers and accept that 
>they have to exist along side other religions without resorting to mass 
>murder all the time.


The "hatred" of others, so to speak, unfortunately transcends all the major 
religions.
We have fundamental christians in the US not only talking about, but 
actually killing , doctors who perform abortions....


> There is blame on all sides but Islam keeps stirring things up!


Ok..... that, at least, is some recognition of the real problem....which is 
religion....... whatever shade


Mark

The History of Palestine is the account of events in the greater geographic 
area in the Southern Levant known as Palestine, which includes the West 
Bank, and Gaza. Historically "Palestine" referred to a larger area, 
including what became modern day Israel and parts of Jordan and Syria, more 
or less approximating the Jewish Judean kingdom of ancientdom that was 
destroyed by the Romans and then renamed. The name "Palestine," in the form 
of the Greek toponym Palaistinê (Greek: ??????????) is derived from the 
Greek "Philistia" and is recorded in the work of the Ionian historian 
Herodotus, circa the 5th century BCE. He uses it to denote all of the 
coastal land of the Mediterranean Sea, including Phoenicia, down to Egypt. 
The term was first officially used to describe all the Land of Israel after 
the third Jewish rebellion, Bar Kokhba revolt had failed to win freedom from 
Roman domination of the Hebrew nation. The Romans changed the region's name 
from Israel/Judea in order to historically disconnect the Jews from their 
land as punishment for their rebellion against Roman imperialism.[1] An 
attempt was also made to re-name Jerusalem, to Aelia Capitolina, but this 
did not by and large succeed throughout history.

"john"  wrote in message 
news:QPGYj.72392$Nq2.64589@newsfe29.ams2...
> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
> counter the Christian faith.
>

john wrote:
> The History of Palestine is the account of events in the greater geographic 
> area in the Southern Levant known as Palestine, which includes the West 
> Bank, and Gaza. Historically "Palestine" referred to a larger area, 
> including what became modern day Israel and parts of Jordan and Syria, more 
> or less approximating the Jewish Judean kingdom of ancientdom that was 
> destroyed by the Romans and then renamed. The name "Palestine," in the form 
> of the Greek toponym Palaistinê (Greek: ??????????) is derived from the 
> Greek "Philistia" and is recorded in the work of the Ionian historian 
> Herodotus, circa the 5th century BCE. He uses it to denote all of the 
> coastal land of the Mediterranean Sea, including Phoenicia, down to Egypt. 
> The term was first officially used to describe all the Land of Israel after 
> the third Jewish rebellion, Bar Kokhba revolt had failed to win freedom from 
> Roman domination of the Hebrew nation. The Romans changed the region's name 
> from Israel/Judea in order to historically disconnect the Jews from their 
> land as punishment for their rebellion against Roman imperialism.[1] An 
> attempt was also made to re-name Jerusalem, to Aelia Capitolina, but this 
> did not by and large succeed throughout history.
> 
> "john"  wrote in message 
> news:QPGYj.72392$Nq2.64589@newsfe29.ams2...
>> you mean Mohammed the prophet of the Devil don't you? Islam is the 
>> religion of the Devil who created it through his prophet Mohammed to 
>> counter the Christian faith.
>>
> 
> 
more absolute nonsense..wherever you are cutting and pasting this stuff 
from, you should stop...it is historical nonsense.

None of these place names exsisted in their current form before the 
greek translation of the hebrew text well after all the events you are 
talking about..even the name jesus is invented.

There is no historical fact for the migration of Hebrew people from 
Eygypt.  Even the route fabricated is stupid.  Royal Davids city, 
claimed to be clad in gold was a small village made of wood (recently 
discovered)

The land of Palastine was infact inhabited by very many historical 
tribes, some even mentioned in the fictional bible.  The Hebrews were 
just one of them  (or in fact several of them because there were many 
different tribes of the Hebrews)

X-No-Archive: yes

"john"  wrote in message 
news:2lC0k.103838$zc6.52756@newsfe29.ams2...
> The History of Palestine is the account of events in the greater 
> geographic area in the Southern Levant known as Palestine, which includes 
> the West Bank, and Gaza. Historically "Palestine" referred to a larger 
> area, including what became modern day Israel and parts of Jordan and 
> Syria, more or less approximating the Jewish Judean kingdom of ancientdom 
> that was destroyed by the Romans and then renamed. The name "Palestine," 
> in the form of the Greek toponym Palaistinê (Greek: ??????????) is derived 
> from the Greek "Philistia" and is recorded in the work of the Ionian 
> historian Herodotus, circa the 5th century BCE. He uses it to denote all 
> of the coastal land of the Mediterranean Sea, including Phoenicia, down to 
> Egypt. The term was first officially used to describe all the Land of 
> Israel after the third Jewish rebellion, Bar Kokhba revolt had failed to 
> win freedom from Roman domination of the Hebrew nation. The Romans changed 
> the region's name from Israel/Judea in order to historically disconnect 
> the Jews from their land as punishment for their rebellion against Roman 
> imperialism.[1] An attempt was also made to re-name Jerusalem, to Aelia 
> Capitolina, but this did not by and large succeed throughout history.


So.... my question to you john is, where is the extent of the jewish lands 
you speak of......... when did they come into existence..?
As you know, I'm sure, the Gaza strip, West Bank & East Jerusalem  were 
all - in fact about one quarter of the original territory of the British 
Mandate (Palestine) - part of a historical palestine which included parts of 
Lebanon and Syria. The other three quarters, or thereabouts,  were ceded  in 
forming the state of israel.
Of course, there are jewish scholars who claim ancient history over certain 
lands but there is precious little evidence to support their assertions 
apart from biblical tomes.....
In contrast, the Armana Letters dating around 14th century bc show Egyptian 
presence in this entire area.
Abdi Hebba was a king of jerusalem around 1300 bc (possibly of Hurrian 
descent...?) but in any event was king in the pre-israelite period!!  that's 
right, before israel and the jews...!!!
You see,  what moment in time are you going to use as the time line where 
land belongs to someone or other...?
Modern political history is the delineating boundaries that are hotly 
disputed.  It is a matter of historical record that lands were taken from 
palestine to form israel and it is a matter of historical fact that israel 
took further lands belonging to the palestinians in 1967.......  land they 
have resoluted refused to return in spite of international decree and 
condemnation.
Of course, the international community recognise Palestine and it has full 
diplomatic associtaion with over 100 countries in this world even though 
its' boundaries are still to be decided.
Ancient history shows that israel  were not there and modern history shows 
israel has taken and occupied lands belonging to them....I'm struggling to 
understand what *rights* israel has over some of these lands frankly...
Of course, you could make a case by judicious selection of a time frame that 
suited the assertion and/or using biblical texts to support the case...... 
but in reality, they have little case over much of the occupied territory 
other than political and military expediency.

Now mix all of this up with the spark that we call religion.............



Mark