....well they aren't really backups because it's the DVDR Id like to use, not
the original disc.

My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using them,
but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, it was
gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough titty.

Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be able to
easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is winning
over the grumpy old fart side.

I've been doing his DVD videos for ages, since he broke three copies of "Toy
Story" when he was 3. It takes almost no time of mine and about 90 minutes
of CPU time.

I've noticed that one disc (Tony Hawk Underground 2*) is beginning to fail
through scratches, and I'm hoping to get it onto a MiniDVD before it goes
completely.

What do I need to make a disc image? I have Nero 6, is there a link to the
correct settings to use?

Would I need to "chip" the GameCube in order to play these games? I've no
need to accommodate NTSC games.

He has five games in total - is all this going to be a waste of time (would
it be easier/cheaper to replace five games than arse about with making
usable copies of them)?

Thanks in advance for letting me know what you think.


* I know Tony Hawks is inappropriate for a 6 year old - I think it says 16+
on the box. He seems to like it, though, and whenever I see him play, it
doesn't seem so bad that it needs such a high rating. Of course this doesn't
stop him asking for other, mature player games when we're out in town. "No
you can't - you have to be over 12 to play that." "Well I'm allowed to play
Tony Hawks, and you have to be over 16 for that one. Duh!".

I seem to recall being brought up not to talk to your elders that way too. I
blame the parents.

Oh. Wait a minute...

On 2006-01-11, G Hardy  wrote:
>
> My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using them,
> but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
> GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, it was
> gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough titty.
>
> Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be able to
> easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is winning
> over the grumpy old fart side.

We certainly have the technology to do it easily and cheaply. We aren't,
however, able to do it legally.

Would you buy your six year old thirty quid's worth of crystal glasses? 

Choobs

-- 
Sir Chewbury Gubbins 
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org - Game Diary, Fiction, and Ramblings           [ESC]:wq

"Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message 
news:42ki8hF1jvvmjU3@individual.net...
> On 2006-01-11, G Hardy  wrote:
>>
>> My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using 
>> them,
>> but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
>> GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, 
>> it was
>> gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough 
>> titty.
>>
>> Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be 
>> able to
>> easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is 
>> winning
>> over the grumpy old fart side.
>
> We certainly have the technology to do it easily and cheaply. We 
> aren't,
> however, able to do it legally.
>
> Would you buy your six year old thirty quid's worth of crystal glasses?

They are not a child's toy unlike the Gamecube...

</me>Runs for cover

On 2006-01-11, Cullen Skink  wrote:
> "Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message 
> news:42ki8hF1jvvmjU3@individual.net...
>> On 2006-01-11, G Hardy  wrote:
>>>
>>> My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using 
>>> them,
>>> but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
>>> GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, 
>>> it was
>>> gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough 
>>> titty.
>>>
>>> Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be 
>>> able to
>>> easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is 
>>> winning
>>> over the grumpy old fart side.
>>
>> We certainly have the technology to do it easily and cheaply. We 
>> aren't,
>> however, able to do it legally.
>>
>> Would you buy your six year old thirty quid's worth of crystal glasses?
>
> They are not a child's toy unlike the Gamecube...
>
></me>Runs for cover 

lol :)

Anyhoo, as it happens, my eight year old has been punting disks in and out
of the cube since he was five. We just have a rule that disks go in
boxes and boxes go on shelves. Every time we find a disk which is
neither in the cube or in its proper box, the game is taken away for a
period of time, and he's banned from the console for a little longer. 

As a result, he left a game out ONCE. He never did it again :)

At risk of sounding pompous and new agey, rather than assuming he's
going to feck up the disks, try explaining the situation to him and
making it clear that you're trusting him with a bit of responsibility.
Sure, he's just little, but it works wonders.

Choobs

-- 
Sir Chewbury Gubbins 
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org - Game Diary, Fiction, and Ramblings           [ESC]:wq

On 2006-01-11 14:00:01 +0000, "G Hardy"  said:

> ...well they aren't really backups because it's the DVDR Id like to use, not
> the original disc.
> 
> My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using them,
> but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
> GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, it was
> gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough titty.
> 
> Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be able to
> easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is winning
> over the grumpy old fart side.
> 
> I've been doing his DVD videos for ages, since he broke three copies of "Toy
> Story" when he was 3. It takes almost no time of mine and about 90 minutes
> of CPU time.
> 
> I've noticed that one disc (Tony Hawk Underground 2*) is beginning to fail
> through scratches, and I'm hoping to get it onto a MiniDVD before it goes
> completely.
> 
> What do I need to make a disc image? I have Nero 6, is there a link to the
> correct settings to use?
> 
> Would I need to "chip" the GameCube in order to play these games? I've no
> need to accommodate NTSC games.
> 
> He has five games in total - is all this going to be a waste of time (would
> it be easier/cheaper to replace five games than arse about with making
> usable copies of them)?
> 
> Thanks in advance for letting me know what you think.
> 
> 
> * I know Tony Hawks is inappropriate for a 6 year old - I think it says 16+
> on the box. He seems to like it, though, and whenever I see him play, it
> doesn't seem so bad that it needs such a high rating. Of course this doesn't
> stop him asking for other, mature player games when we're out in town. "No
> you can't - you have to be over 12 to play that." "Well I'm allowed to play
> Tony Hawks, and you have to be over 16 for that one. Duh!".
> 
> I seem to recall being brought up not to talk to your elders that way too. I
> blame the parents.
> 
> Oh. Wait a minute...

As Choobs has said, just teach him to look after his stuff. Also, a lot 
of older Gamecube titles can now be had for £5ish from your local 
Gamestation or on eBay, so unless you have new or rare titles, you may 
as well replace them. And as has been pointed out, CDs do not have a 
natural proneness to failure like floppy discs and tapes did, and as 
such it is illegal to 'back up' CD-based media, however most 
manufacturers will usually swap out a scratched disc for a new one for 
about three quid, in order to stop people using the 'backing up' excuse 
to make their piracy seem acceptable.

-- 
Zo

GamerTag: Zomoniac  (Pro Evo 5, Halo 2, PGR2, MotoGP, DOAU, Outrun 2, 
Burnout 3, COD2, PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, FIFA 06)
Last game completed: Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (DS) (Easy) - 30/12/2005
Currently playing: Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (DS)

Sir Chewbury Gubbins wrote:
> On 2006-01-11, Cullen Skink  wrote:
> 
>>"Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message 
>>news:42ki8hF1jvvmjU3@individual.net...
>>
>>>On 2006-01-11, G Hardy  wrote:
>>>
>>>>My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using 
>>>>them,
>>>>but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
>>>>GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, 
>>>>it was
>>>>gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough 
>>>>titty.
>>>>
>>>>Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be 
>>>>able to
>>>>easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is 
>>>>winning
>>>>over the grumpy old fart side.
>>>
>>>We certainly have the technology to do it easily and cheaply. We 
>>>aren't,
>>>however, able to do it legally.
>>>
>>>Would you buy your six year old thirty quid's worth of crystal glasses?
>>
>>They are not a child's toy unlike the Gamecube...
>>
>></me>Runs for cover 
> 
> 
> lol :)
> 
> Anyhoo, as it happens, my eight year old has been punting disks in and out
> of the cube since he was five. We just have a rule that disks go in
> boxes and boxes go on shelves. Every time we find a disk which is
> neither in the cube or in its proper box, the game is taken away for a
> period of time, and he's banned from the console for a little longer. 
> 
> As a result, he left a game out ONCE. He never did it again :)
> 
> At risk of sounding pompous and new agey, rather than assuming he's
> going to feck up the disks, try explaining the situation to him and
> making it clear that you're trusting him with a bit of responsibility.
> Sure, he's just little, but it works wonders.
> 
> Choobs
> 

I second that, my 4yr old (3 at the time) was quite capable of changing 
the disks of my gcn with supervision, so I imagine a 6 year old with the 
above rules in place would be fine.

Of course, if you're just trying to pirate your games, that's another story.

"Vitani"  wrote in message
news:T79xf.75786$7p5.30740@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> Sir Chewbury Gubbins wrote:

> > Anyhoo, as it happens, my eight year old has been punting disks in and
out
> > of the cube since he was five. We just have a rule that disks go in
> > boxes and boxes go on shelves. Every time we find a disk which is
> > neither in the cube or in its proper box, the game is taken away for a
> > period of time, and he's banned from the console for a little longer.
> >
> > As a result, he left a game out ONCE. He never did it again :)
> >
> > At risk of sounding pompous and new agey, rather than assuming he's
> > going to feck up the disks, try explaining the situation to him and
> > making it clear that you're trusting him with a bit of responsibility.
> > Sure, he's just little, but it works wonders.
> >
> > Choobs
> >
>
> I second that, my 4yr old (3 at the time) was quite capable of changing
> the disks of my gcn with supervision, so I imagine a 6 year old with the
> above rules in place would be fine.

I'll give it a try - he's not what you'd call "normal" (don't ask for an
explanation- it's outside the scope of the newsgroup) so whether it would
have an effect is questionable.

I fully agree with the Choobs "how to be a Dad" school of thought - it's how
I was brought up, but it doesn't work in this house.

"Zomoniac"  wrote in message
news:42kkn1F1jca8eU4@individual.net...

> As Choobs has said, just teach him to look after his stuff. Also, a lot
> of older Gamecube titles can now be had for £5ish from your local
> Gamestation or on eBay, so unless you have new or rare titles, you may
> as well replace them.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

eBay's a bit of a problem, as most discs I see on there (for any purpose -
video, application, o/s or game) are pirated, but apart from one, all his
games are quite old. It might actually be cheaper (in terms of time, if not
raw material cost) to buy a new replacement.


> natural proneness to failure like floppy discs and tapes did, and as
> such it is illegal to 'back up' CD-based media...

The legality is no different - there's no discrimination in copyright law
depending the initial media. To be pedantic, it's unlawful, not illegal. If
it were illegal, the police would follow up any breaches. As it is, it's
down to the publisher and/or their distributors to sue.

I actually expected a bit of flaming from my post, from the self-righteous
proclaiming that I must be wanting to pirate discs. The UK doesn't have
anything like the US "fair use" law which permits backing up. I think
there's an EU equivalent that we'll have to follow (if it's not expected
already).


> however most
> manufacturers will usually swap out a scratched disc for a new one for
> about three quid, in order to stop people using the 'backing up' excuse
> to make their piracy seem acceptable.

I fail to see how "backing up" is the same as "Piracy"*. With the latter,
you are distributing the copies to other parties (for payment or otherwise)
or using the copy at the same time as the original. Piracy leads to lost
profit for the copyright holder. If the manufacturer makes a profit on the
"three quid" swapout fee, then what I'm asking about is indeed piracy. If it
is an admin charge, then they are no better or worse off for me using a
backup, so there's no moral reconciliation to be done.

And that's what it's all down to - there's (currently) no difference in the
legal status between piracy and backing up - it's purely moral.

I was hoping for a bit more advice on my specific set of circumstances -
There's loads of advice on the 'net about how to download pirate games and
run NTSC versions on PAL machines, but that's not what I'm after.

* I've just re-read your message and seen that it could also mean genuine
pirates saying they are providing backups. If that's what you meant, I read
it to mean something different the first time around - that backup = =
piracy.

"G Hardy"  writes:
> I'll give it a try - he's not what you'd call "normal" (don't ask for an
> explanation- it's outside the scope of the newsgroup) so whether it would
> have an effect is questionable.
> 
> I fully agree with the Choobs "how to be a Dad" school of thought - it's how
> I was brought up, but it doesn't work in this house.

My son was seriously "marching to his own drum" when he was 4-7. Still is, but
he's now much more reasonable.

While I don't know your son's situation or temprement, what ultimately worked
in my situation was the notion of consequences, losing the fun stuff that he
liked, especially video games.

Eventually things sink in: if he wants to play video games he has to not keep
doing whatever bad thing.

That is, a few grumpy old fart sessions that were endured to the bitter end
were required to drive the point home.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
rAYblaaK@STRIPCAPStelus.net                    The Rhythm has my soul.

G Hardy wrote:
> 
> eBay's a bit of a problem, as most discs I see on there (for any purpose -
> video, application, o/s or game) are pirated, 

Not GameCube games.  They're difficult to pirate.

> The legality is no different - there's no discrimination in copyright law
> depending the initial media. To be pedantic, it's unlawful, not illegal. If
> it were illegal, the police would follow up any breaches. As it is, it's
> down to the publisher and/or their distributors to sue.
> 
Actually, some cases do get referred to police, but they normally don't 
instigate the proceedings.

> I actually expected a bit of flaming from my post, from the self-righteous
> proclaiming that I must be wanting to pirate discs. The UK doesn't have
> anything like the US "fair use" law which permits backing up. I think
> there's an EU equivalent that we'll have to follow (if it's not expected
> already).
> 
The EU rulings are actually more draconian than the current UK ones over 
what you can and can't copy for fair use.  Currently, there is a fair 
bit in the UK Copyrights Act covering fair use, which allows the backup 
of a computer program only where it is necessary to do so.

> 
> I fail to see how "backing up" is the same as "Piracy"*.

They're both illegal.

> And that's what it's all down to - there's (currently) no difference in the
> legal status between piracy and backing up - it's purely moral.
> 
Yep.  The main reason they're the same, however, is that the charter of 
this newsgroup is against the discussion of either.

Tim (tm)
-- 
tim (at) economic-truth.co.uk
http://www.ugvm.org.uk - the uk.games.video.misc magazine

"Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message 
news:42ki8hF1jvvmjU3@individual.net...
> On 2006-01-11, G Hardy  wrote:
>>
>> My son's only 6 and is not really gentle enough with discs to be using 
>> them,
>> but what the hell do I know? His Mum still bought him a DVD player and
>> GameCube. I was brought up to look after my stuff, and if I broke it, it 
>> was
>> gone so if he scratches a disc enough to make it unplayable, tough titty.
>>
>> Having said that - it seems ridiculous to have the technology to be able 
>> to
>> easily and cheaply guard against this, so my common sense side is winning
>> over the grumpy old fart side.
>
> We certainly have the technology to do it easily and cheaply. We aren't,
> however, able to do it legally.
>


Ooh, better throw out this lovely bag of skunk I have here then, aye? 
Because that too is...ILLEGAL. Tsk. I'm 99.9% sure he knew that already, 
like.

"Zomoniac"  wrote in message 
news:42kkn1F1jca8eU4@individual.net...
> On 2006-01-11 14:00:01 +0000, "G Hardy"  said:
>
 in order to stop people using the 'backing up' excuse
> to make their piracy seem acceptable.
>

In many [sane and reasonable] people's minds, if they are *backing-up* a 
bought, legal game - that isn't piracy. Whatever the technical definition of 
it. Piracy is getting something for nothing. Not the same thing, at all.

Usenet really does have more than its fair share of self-righteous, pompous 
so and so's - I wonder why that is. This subject cannot be raised without 
them falling over themselves to be first in with the "it's illegal!" 
bollocks. Never fails to make me piss myself laughing.

Slitheen wrote:
  >
> In many [sane and reasonable] people's minds, if they are *backing-up* a 
> bought, legal game - that isn't piracy. Whatever the technical definition of 
> it. Piracy is getting something for nothing. Not the same thing, at all.
> 
Your definition of piracy differs from the law's, unfortunately.

> Usenet really does have more than its fair share of self-righteous, pompous 
> so and so's - I wonder why that is. This subject cannot be raised without 
> them falling over themselves to be first in with the "it's illegal!" 
> bollocks. Never fails to make me piss myself laughing. 
> 
More to the point, this subject cannot be raised without breaking the 
group's charter.  Which is why people don't like it.

Tim (tm)
-- 
tim (at) economic-truth.co.uk
http://www.gamerwiki.com - the videogame encyclopedia
http://xexyz.blogspot.com - Tim's Gaming Diary

"Tim Miller"  wrote in message 
news:bnlh93-7in.ln1@dekay.dynu.com...
> Slitheen wrote:
>  >
>> In many [sane and reasonable] people's minds, if they are *backing-up* 
>> a bought, legal game - that isn't piracy. Whatever the technical 
>> definition of >> it. Piracy is getting something for nothing. Not the 
>> same thing, at all.
>>
> Your definition of piracy differs from the law's, unfortunately.

I was reading something about this recently that said there is provision 
in UK law to make a backup of software however I don't think it has been 
tested in law.

On 2006-01-12, Cullen Skink  wrote:
> "Tim Miller"  wrote in message 
> news:bnlh93-7in.ln1@dekay.dynu.com...
>> Slitheen wrote:
>>  >
>>> In many [sane and reasonable] people's minds, if they are *backing-up* 
>>> a bought, legal game - that isn't piracy. Whatever the technical 
>>> definition of >> it. Piracy is getting something for nothing. Not the 
>>> same thing, at all.
>>>
>> Your definition of piracy differs from the law's, unfortunately.
>
> I was reading something about this recently that said there is provision 
> in UK law to make a backup of software however I don't think it has been 
> tested in law. 

Mostly because there's not a provision in UK law for the circumvention
of copy protection, I think.

I have a nice boxed copy of Turbo Assembler at home. It comes on three
floppy disks and the first page of the manual describes how to make a
copy and why you should never use the original disks after that. How
things have changed :)

Choobs

-- 
Sir Chewbury Gubbins 
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org - Game Diary, Fiction, and Ramblings           [ESC]:wq

Cullen Skink wrote:
> 
> I was reading something about this recently that said there is provision 
> in UK law to make a backup of software however I don't think it has been 
> tested in law. 
> 
There is a provision in UK law to make a backup of any software where it 
is necessary to do so for the software to be used.

This, obviously, doesn't apply to videogames.

Tim (tm)
-- 
tim (at) economic-truth.co.uk
http://www.gamerwiki.com - the videogame encyclopedia
http://xexyz.blogspot.com - Tim's Gaming Diary

"Tim Miller"  wrote in message 
news:knai93-bvn.ln1@dekay.dynu.com...
> Cullen Skink wrote:
>>
>> I was reading something about this recently that said there is 
>> provision in UK law to make a backup of software however I don't think 
>> it has been tested in law.
> There is a provision in UK law to make a backup of any software where 
> it is necessary to do so for the software to be used.
>
> This, obviously, doesn't apply to videogames.

What software would it apply to?  Serious question, I just can't think of 
any!

"Slitheen"  wrote in message
news:3Kmxf.44$77.16@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...

> Ooh, better throw out this lovely bag of skunk I have here then, aye?
> Because that too is...ILLEGAL. Tsk. I'm 99.9% sure he knew that already,
> like.

Nice contribution. Thanks for that.

"Tim Miller"  wrote in message
news:42ljgmF1jel6sU1@individual.net...
> G Hardy wrote:

> > The legality is no different - there's no discrimination in copyright
law
> > depending the initial media. To be pedantic, it's unlawful, not illegal.
If
> > it were illegal, the police would follow up any breaches. As it is, it's
> > down to the publisher and/or their distributors to sue.
> >
> Actually, some cases do get referred to police, but they normally don't
> instigate the proceedings.

I thought they only accompanied the trading standards people in situations
where there might be some sort of ruckus as a result of the visit...


> The EU rulings are actually more draconian than the current UK ones over
> what you can and can't copy for fair use.  Currently, there is a fair
> bit in the UK Copyrights Act covering fair use, which allows the backup
> of a computer program only where it is necessary to do so.

I'll have to read up on it then. I understood the EU rulings to be more in
line with what's allowed in the US, and less draconian than here (not that
copyright infringement on a small scale is targetted here).

"Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message
news:42n6drF1k1m5qU1@individual.net...

>
> ...there's not a provision in UK law for the circumvention
> of copy protection, I think.

There is, although I do not know its relevance to the NGC or indeed this
thread.

I bought a "DVD maker" from Aldi - it's ostensibly for transferring VHS
content to DVD (but it has numerous other uses). It bypasses Macrovision as
part of its operation, and it supposedly manages to get away with this
because it is not _primarily_ a tool to defeat copyright protection. It is
_primarily_ a tool to convert analogue video to MPEG-2, so the little
unlawful nuance of its operation is glossed over.

Again, whether that could or would be tested by law is another matter.


> I have a nice boxed copy of Turbo Assembler at home. It comes on three
> floppy disks and the first page of the manual describes how to make a
> copy and why you should never use the original disks after that. How
> things have changed :)

We produce wedding DVDs, and there's an unavoidable copyright notice when
you put the DVD in, before it gets to the menu, to the effect that it's an
infringement of our copyright to make duplicates of the disc without prior
written approval. With each disc, we include a letter giving that prior,
written approval, and instructions on how to duplicate the disc.

We get two or three requests for additional copies per wedding (at a cost
each to us of £2.50 and to the customer of £15) whereas without the
instructions, and charging the customer £40 a copy, we had no requests for
duplicates (OK, perhaps one in ten). Go figure...

"Cullen Skink"  wrote in message
news:4bzxf.38926$q4.33321@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> "Tim Miller"  wrote in message
> news:knai93-bvn.ln1@dekay.dynu.com...
> > Cullen Skink wrote:
> >>
> >> I was reading something about this recently that said there is
> >> provision in UK law to make a backup of software however I don't think
> >> it has been tested in law.
> > There is a provision in UK law to make a backup of any software where
> > it is necessary to do so for the software to be used.
> >
> > This, obviously, doesn't apply to videogames.
>
> What software would it apply to?  Serious question, I just can't think of
> any!

Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media. That's a
backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for me.

Almost all console games run from the source media.

"Zomoniac"  wrote in message
news:42kkn1F1jca8eU4@individual.net...

> As Choobs has said, just teach him to look after his stuff. Also, a lot
> of older Gamecube titles can now be had for £5ish from your local
> Gamestation or on eBay, so unless you have new or rare titles, you may
> as well replace them...

My wife got him a copy of "Crazy Taxi" today - £1.99 from "Zone" (I think
it's pre-used, but you can't tell).

At those prices, you're right, there's no point running from backups in case
the originals get scratched. I've used up more than £1.99 of my time in just
today's replies to this thread.

G Hardy wrote:
> 
> Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media. That's a
> backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
> cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for me.
> 

Not really - if you were to take a copy of the game installation 
directory (on a Windows PC), 99% of modern games wouldn't work if you 
restored from that (to a PC or drive where a prior installation from 
source media had not taken place).


-- 
[ste]
"Throw me your matches 'cause I like to burn stuff"

"[ste parker]"  wrote in message
news:42od5vF1k09kcU7@individual.net...
> G Hardy wrote:
> >
> > Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media.
That's a
> > backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
> > cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for
me.
> >
>
> Not really - if you were to take a copy of the game installation
> directory (on a Windows PC), 99% of modern games wouldn't work if you
> restored from that (to a PC or drive where a prior installation from
> source media had not taken place).

True - but that's why I used the "of sorts" modifier. Elsewhere in this
thread, it's been decreed that backing up NGC games is the same as piracy.
Having a working copy means you can run two or more installations
simultaneously - as much a loss of revenue to the distributor as if you
simply gave or sold a copy to someone else.

Most PC installs allow you to do that, where the disc is not needed as a
"key" for booting up.

All my game discs are safely filed away. If my PC install fails for any
reason I am able to fall back on the originals - meaning they are something
of a backup. My boy's NGC discs are part of the system. If they fail
(through misuse, admittedly) there is no such fallback.

"Ray Blaak"  wrote in message 
news:ur77eplp2.fsf@STRIPCAPStelus.net...
> "G Hardy"  writes:
>> I'll give it a try - he's not what you'd call "normal" (don't ask for an
>> explanation- it's outside the scope of the newsgroup) so whether it would
>> have an effect is questionable.
>>
>> I fully agree with the Choobs "how to be a Dad" school of thought - it's 
>> how
>> I was brought up, but it doesn't work in this house.
>
> My son was seriously "marching to his own drum" when he was 4-7. Still is, 
> but
> he's now much more reasonable.
>
> While I don't know your son's situation or temprement, what ultimately 
> worked
> in my situation was the notion of consequences, losing the fun stuff that 
> he
> liked, especially video games.
>
> Eventually things sink in: if he wants to play video games he has to not 
> keep
> doing whatever bad thing.

Urgh, I wish that sort of thing would work with my 23 year old brother.

Just replace "play video games" with "go on hundreds of boat trips" and 
"whatever bad thing" with "spending lots and lots of money he doesn't have".

-- 
Sue

"[ste parker]"  wrote in message 
news:42od5vF1k09kcU7@individual.net...
>G Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media. 
>> That's a
>> backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
>> cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for 
>> me.
>>
>
> Not really - if you were to take a copy of the game installation directory 
> (on a Windows PC), 99% of modern games wouldn't work if you restored from 
> that (to a PC or drive where a prior installation from source media had 
> not taken place).

I *think* you can do this with World of Warcraft, which brings up an 
interesting point.  Backing up those files wouldn't get you anywhere as you 
need to legally be paying for the service to get anywhere with it.

-- 
Sue

"G Hardy"  wrote in message 
news:DmCxf.9551$5f4.7100@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> "Zomoniac"  wrote in message
> news:42kkn1F1jca8eU4@individual.net...
>
>> As Choobs has said, just teach him to look after his stuff. Also, a lot
>> of older Gamecube titles can now be had for £5ish from your local
>> Gamestation or on eBay, so unless you have new or rare titles, you may
>> as well replace them...
>
> My wife got him a copy of "Crazy Taxi" today - £1.99 from "Zone" (I think
> it's pre-used, but you can't tell).
>
> At those prices, you're right, there's no point running from backups in 
> case
> the originals get scratched. I've used up more than £1.99 of my time in 
> just
> today's replies to this thread.

Though I can completely understand your sentiments, I have to agree with 
some others that backing the discs up isn't the way to go.  Of course I 
don't know your personal situation but if your son ends up thinking it's ok 
to break stuff then he will ;)

If however he thinks it's not ok to break things, and if it does happen by 
accident further down the line, in theory he'd be sad about it and will have 
learned a lesson.  If he broke Crazy Taxi for example, and then you said 
"well, you can't play it anymore", he might try and look after them a bit 
more.  (Of course, if you have purchased a second copy you could just hang 
onto it yourself for a bit ;))

-- 
Sue

On 2006-01-13, Sprite  wrote:
>
> "[ste parker]"  wrote in message 
> news:42od5vF1k09kcU7@individual.net...
>>G Hardy wrote:
>>>
>>> Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media. 
>>> That's a
>>> backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
>>> cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for 
>>> me.
>>>
>>
>> Not really - if you were to take a copy of the game installation directory 
>> (on a Windows PC), 99% of modern games wouldn't work if you restored from 
>> that (to a PC or drive where a prior installation from source media had 
>> not taken place).
>
> I *think* you can do this with World of Warcraft, which brings up an 
> interesting point.  Backing up those files wouldn't get you anywhere as you 
> need to legally be paying for the service to get anywhere with it.

Couple of months back, when I broke one of my WoW disks, Blizzard
customer support *told* me to make a copy of someone elses disk.

Choobs

-- 
Sir Chewbury Gubbins 
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org - Game Diary, Fiction, and Ramblings           [ESC]:wq

In article <sjCxf.9517$5f4.3788@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
   G Hardy  wrote:
> Almost all software runs from the hard drive, not the source media. That's a
> backup - of sorts. Once the software is installed, the disc can go in a
> cupboard. I'm not sure that's what Tim meant, but it's close enough for me.

Though it can be annoying when you have put the game disc away somewhere,
and you then can't find it, then when running the game requires 'Please
insert CD 1' to get the bloody thing going!
That's why I'm all for CD keys. 

> Almost all console games run from the source media.

Yep.

William

-- 
Using Virtual RISC PC Adjust on an Athlon 64 PC

The best of both worlds

www.virtualacorn.co.uk

In article <0EKxf.13625$5f4.431@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
   G Hardy  wrote:
> All my game discs are safely filed away. If my PC install fails for any
> reason I am able to fall back on the originals - meaning they are something
> of a backup. My boy's NGC discs are part of the system. If they fail
> (through misuse, admittedly) there is no such fallback.

Totally agree.
I was experimenting with the settings on my PC a few weeks back, and ended
up deleting the contents of my 'Games' directory on my D drive (where all
my PC games are stored). Took me 2 bloody days to reinstall everything   
(glad I was off work that particular week) and I had lost all the saved
games. However, as I hadn't really played all that many of the games, and
the ones I had played I wasn't particularly far into, I wasn't really too
bothered. Just means I can play them again.
I only take backups of the C drive (onto the D) and I copy those backups
across onto an external hard disc, so I've got 2 backups.

William

-- 
Using Virtual RISC PC Adjust on an Athlon 64 PC

The best of both worlds

www.virtualacorn.co.uk

"Sir Chewbury Gubbins"  wrote in message
news:42pfpbF1kal6eU1@individual.net...

> Couple of months back, when I broke one of my WoW disks, Blizzard
> customer support *told* me to make a copy of someone elses disk.

When I bought Half Life 2, I wanted to do it via Steam (it was the cheapest
way, at the time), but didn't fancy downloading 3 GB of gamefiles, so I
installed all the files from a friend's DVD and carried on without
registering online. Then I set up the Steam account and it just patched the
install with enough info to actually play the game, and installed the
pending updates (which were a few hundred MB in themselves).

"Sprite"  wrote in message
news:42pfb5F1kdoikU1@individual.net...

> Though I can completely understand your sentiments, I have to agree with
> some others that backing the discs up isn't the way to go.  Of course I
> don't know your personal situation but if your son ends up thinking it's
ok
> to break stuff then he will ;)

He's very slightly autistic, and doesn't see anything as having "value" -
just doesn't understand the concept. You can tell him how much something is,
he'll know how much to give, how to give the correct change (if he's got it)
and how much change to expect etc - just like any other 6 year old. But if
you asked him if a gamecube disc was worth more than a mars bar, he wouldn't
know what you meant. He only knows it costs more.

If he isn't able to play it because it's broken, that will have a bigger
effect than, say, replacing it with money from his pig (or just keeping his
money on the "if you can't look after things, why should I pay for them?"
reasoning).


> ...If he broke Crazy Taxi for example, and then you said
> "well, you can't play it anymore", he might try and look after them a bit
> more.  (Of course, if you have purchased a second copy you could just hang
> onto it yourself for a bit ;))

The annoying thing is - he inherited his NGC from his brother, who went on
to a PS 2 (boo hiss). His bro had NGC "Crazy Taxi" already, and PXed it for
some different games when he got his new console. It was MUCH more than
£1.98 when we got it first time around.