I've heard that turning the gamecube on with [B] held down for 5 or 10
seconds allows you to turn the gamecube into progressive scan mode, but
if I understand correctly, you need to have connected the GC to the tv
using the component cable (Yellow, red and white RCA plugs) rather than
using RGB Scart leads. I use RGB Scart leads normally.

If I switch back to component wires (which are usually worse than RGB
Scart) but enable progressive scan, will the picture be improved?

-- 
Toby. 
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.

On 2006-01-09 09:27:39 +0000, Toby Newman  said:

> I've heard that turning the gamecube on with [B] held down for 5 or 10
> seconds allows you to turn the gamecube into progressive scan mode, but
> if I understand correctly, you need to have connected the GC to the tv
> using the component cable (Yellow, red and white RCA plugs) rather than
> using RGB Scart leads. I use RGB Scart leads normally.
> 
> If I switch back to component wires (which are usually worse than RGB
> Scart) but enable progressive scan, will the picture be improved?

Yellow, red and white is NOT component, it is composite. Also known as 
EVIL DEATH WANK. Component cables have red, green and blue RCAs for the 
video, and red and white for the audio. They're not available in the 
UK, and import ones cost the best part of £40 for the official ones, 
and only US games support Prog Scan. So, your yellow cable doesn't 
support prog scan and will make your picture worse, so stick with the 
RGB.

-- 
Zo

GamerTag: Zomoniac  (Pro Evo 5, Halo 2, PGR2, MotoGP, DOAU, Outrun 2, 
Burnout 3, COD2, PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, FIFA 06)
Last game completed: Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (DS) (Easy) - 30/12/2005
Currently playing: Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (DS)

Toby Newman wrote:
> I've heard that turning the gamecube on with [B] held down for 5 or 10
> seconds allows you to turn the gamecube into progressive scan mode, but
> if I understand correctly, you need to have connected the GC to the tv
> using the component cable (Yellow, red and white RCA plugs) rather than
> using RGB Scart leads. I use RGB Scart leads normally.
> 
> If I switch back to component wires (which are usually worse than RGB
> Scart) but enable progressive scan, will the picture be improved?
> 

You're using a composite lead, not component, which is why your picture 
is worse.  You also need component inputs on your TV.  Component is 
apparently slightly better than RGB, but also allows the use of 
progressive scan which should make things look a lot nicer.  It's only 
enabled in US/Jap games though, and even then not too many of them.

-- 
[ste]
"No cars go
Where we know"

> You're using a composite lead, not component, which is why your picture 
> is worse.  You also need component inputs on your TV.  Component is 
> apparently slightly better than RGB, but also allows the use of 
> progressive scan which should make things look a lot nicer.  It's only 
> enabled in US/Jap games though, and even then not too many of them.

Most of my US games support progressive through compenent on my TV; 
though on many of them it makes the picture quality *too* good, 
resulting in every tiny graphical artifact and bit of aliasing too 
noticable.

On 2006-01-09, Zomoniac  wrote:
> On 2006-01-09 09:27:39 +0000, Toby Newman  said:
>
>> I've heard that turning the gamecube on with [B] held down for 5 or 10
>> seconds allows you to turn the gamecube into progressive scan mode, but
>> if I understand correctly, you need to have connected the GC to the tv
>> using the component cable (Yellow, red and white RCA plugs) rather than
>> using RGB Scart leads. I use RGB Scart leads normally.
>> 
>> If I switch back to component wires (which are usually worse than RGB
>> Scart) but enable progressive scan, will the picture be improved?
>
> Yellow, red and white is NOT component, it is composite.

Oh, yes, silly me - they do sound similar though!

> Also known as 
> EVIL DEATH WANK.

I was a little suspicious of these sites telling me that switching from
RGB to composite would improve the picture - no wonder I was
confused!


> Component cables have red, green and blue RCAs for the 
> video, and red and white for the audio.

Red, green and blue picture cables, you say? Like one for red, one for
green, and one for blue. Hmmm, like, R, G..... B. RGB. Sounds awful like
the same signal I have flowing through my RGB scart cable. Are they not
the same but in a different form factor?

-- 
Toby. 
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.

Toby Newman wrote:
> On 2006-01-09, Zomoniac  wrote:
> 
>>Component cables have red, green and blue RCAs for the 
>>video, and red and white for the audio.
> 
> Red, green and blue picture cables, you say? Like one for red, one for
> green, and one for blue. Hmmm, like, R, G..... B. RGB. Sounds awful like
> the same signal I have flowing through my RGB scart cable. Are they not
> the same but in a different form factor?
> 

Um, not really, no - they're just the colour of the leads to match up to 
the equivalent connectors.  The name for the three signals is Y, Pb, Pr 
  which may well be just a posh way of saying RGB anyway :)

-- 
[ste]
"No cars go
Where we know"

"Toby Newman"  wrote in message
news:slrnds53ue.9dd.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2006-01-09, Zomoniac  wrote:
> > On 2006-01-09 09:27:39 +0000, Toby Newman  said:
> >
> >> I've heard that turning the gamecube on with [B] held down for 5 or 10
> >> seconds allows you to turn the gamecube into progressive scan mode, but
> >> if I understand correctly, you need to have connected the GC to the tv
> >> using the component cable (Yellow, red and white RCA plugs) rather than
> >> using RGB Scart leads. I use RGB Scart leads normally.
> >>
> >> If I switch back to component wires (which are usually worse than RGB
> >> Scart) but enable progressive scan, will the picture be improved?
> >
> > Yellow, red and white is NOT component, it is composite.
>
> Oh, yes, silly me - they do sound similar though!
>
> > Also known as
> > EVIL DEATH WANK.
>
> I was a little suspicious of these sites telling me that switching from
> RGB to composite would improve the picture - no wonder I was
> confused!
>
>
> > Component cables have red, green and blue RCAs for the
> > video, and red and white for the audio.
>
> Red, green and blue picture cables, you say? Like one for red, one for
> green, and one for blue. Hmmm, like, R, G..... B. RGB. Sounds awful like
> the same signal I have flowing through my RGB scart cable. Are they not
> the same but in a different form factor?

YPbPr signals are not the same as RGB signals, so connecting the RGB wires from
an RGB Scart cable into these "component" inputs wouldn't work. It's a shame
then, that these colour-coded YPbPr connections seem to have been purposely
designed to be confused with RGB inputs...

But OK, from a picture quality point of view the technical differences between
the two shouldn't be worth worrying about at all, unless (a) your equipment is
just cack at doing the (always necessary) YPbPr to RGB conversion, (b) the
connections are very long indeed, or (c) you enjoy worrying unnecessarily about
analogue video signals.

-P

"Toby Newman"  wrote in message 
news:slrnds53ue.9dd.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>
> I was a little suspicious of these sites telling me that switching from
> RGB to composite would improve the picture - no wonder I was
> confused!

If you can provide me a single link to a single game website that informs 
you that composite is a better quality than RGB, and that you should make 
such a switch, you can have my entire games collection - and it's bloody 
big. I think it is fairly obvious that you are simply confusing composite 
with componant, and that you have misread or misunderstood the sites you 
have read in the past, rather than actually being misinformed. The only 
thing composite and componant have in common with each other is that they 
both begin with a C. There is no shame in that though, it is a common 
mistake to the uninitiated.

Composite is barely one up from an RF lead, although the sound is very much 
better (than RF). As the t'other bloke said, stick with [glorious] RGB. 
Although PLEASE REMEMBER, Nintendo were typically shady bastards and made 
their overpriced, bog standard quality RGB cable to be the only one that 
*actually* gives you an RGB picture - this has been debated wildly in the 
past, but a simple experiment will prove it. Plug in a cube using the 
official RGB cable (plugged in an RGB wired SCART socket on your TV), and 
then attempt to turn the colour all the way down on your TV set - the 
picture will remain in colour (on the RGB 'channel'). Do the same with a 3rd 
party cube cable, and the picture will be in black and white. That is 
because with RGB, you *cannot* turn down the colour. All you will get from 
the 3rd party cable is composite, so don't skimp. Although.....please read 
on.....

Now, that was the case as I last found it anyway - in the recent past, I 
don't know if the 3rd party companies have sussed Nintendo's sly little 
wiring trickery or not, and some *may* now be making *real* RGB cube SCART 
leads, I don't know. And *if* they are, one or two might even be making 
double shielded leads, with 24kt gold plated contacts,  using oxygen free 
copper for the wires......and may even have the common decency to give you 
'audio out' too! All unlike the overpriced, very basic [but acceptable] 
official cable.

Regards.

"Fry"  wrote in message 
news:42evp5F1igq5hU1@individual.net...
>> You're using a composite lead, not component, which is why your picture 
>> is worse.  You also need component inputs on your TV.  Component is 
>> apparently slightly better than RGB, but also allows the use of 
>> progressive scan which should make things look a lot nicer.  It's only 
>> enabled in US/Jap games though, and even then not too many of them.
>
> Most of my US games support progressive through compenent on my TV; though 
> on many of them it makes the picture quality *too* good, resulting in 
> every tiny graphical artifact and bit of aliasing too noticable.

You aint the first person I've heard say this either. All the more reasons 
for my not being a supremist, and sticking to just using 'plain old' RGB! ;)

> You aint the first person I've heard say this either. All the more reasons 
> for my not being a supremist, and sticking to just using 'plain old' RGB! ;) 

Well, it depends on the size of your TV, and how far you sit from it. 
Personally, I prefer component progressive, and the sharpness, to RGB, 
but they're both very good really.

On 2006-01-16, Slitheen  wrote:

> Plug in a cube using the 
> official RGB cable (plugged in an RGB wired SCART socket on your TV), and 
> then attempt to turn the colour all the way down on your TV set - the 
> picture will remain in colour (on the RGB 'channel'). Do the same with a 3rd 
> party cube cable, and the picture will be in black and white. That is 
> because with RGB, you *cannot* turn down the colour. All you will get from 
> the 3rd party cable is composite, so don't skimp. Although.....please read 
> on.....

Watch out for this test, as a large number of modern TVs do various
processing on an RGB image and do allow you to adjust the colour of it.

-- 
Mike Jenkins
Dreamcast/Gamecube FAQs - http://www.kwik-e-mart.org
Mike's Auctions: http://tinyurl.com/2374h

"Mike Jenkins"  wrote in message 
news:slrndspfbp.8dg.mike.jenkins.no.spam@washu.local...
> On 2006-01-16, Slitheen  wrote:
>
>> Plug in a cube using the
>> official RGB cable (plugged in an RGB wired SCART socket on your TV), and
>> then attempt to turn the colour all the way down on your TV set - the
>> picture will remain in colour (on the RGB 'channel'). Do the same with a 
>> 3rd
>> party cube cable, and the picture will be in black and white. That is
>> because with RGB, you *cannot* turn down the colour. All you will get 
>> from
>> the 3rd party cable is composite, so don't skimp. Although.....please 
>> read
>> on.....
>
> Watch out for this test, as a large number of modern TVs do various
> processing on an RGB image and do allow you to adjust the colour of it.
>

Really? I must say, I've never come across this. I've tried it on several 
TV's, Sony, Philips and Toshiba's to name a few....on all of those I 
couldn't adjust the colour on the RGB. Is it specific brands, or models 
within a brand's range or something? Thanks for the tip, anyway.

"Mike Jenkins"  wrote in message 
news:slrndspfbp.8dg.mike.jenkins.no.spam@washu.local...
> On 2006-01-16, Slitheen  wrote:
>
>> Plug in a cube using the
>> official RGB cable (plugged in an RGB wired SCART socket on your TV), and
>> then attempt to turn the colour all the way down on your TV set - the
>> picture will remain in colour (on the RGB 'channel'). Do the same with a 
>> 3rd
>> party cube cable, and the picture will be in black and white. That is
>> because with RGB, you *cannot* turn down the colour. All you will get 
>> from
>> the 3rd party cable is composite, so don't skimp. Although.....please 
>> read
>> on.....
>
> Watch out for this test, as a large number of modern TVs do various
> processing on an RGB image and do allow you to adjust the colour of it.
>

You're right - but when I Google'd for this and found a couple of references 
from people on online forums, they referred to this occurrence as these few 
TV's handling the RGB signal "incorrectly". Stating that when handled 
'correctly', one shouldn't be able to adjust the RGB channel's colour. I 
wonder if that is so? Or are they just handling the signal 
'differently'.....as opposed to "incorrectly"?

On 2006-01-17, Slitheen  wrote:

>> Watch out for this test, as a large number of modern TVs do various
>> processing on an RGB image and do allow you to adjust the colour of it.
>>
>
> You're right - but when I Google'd for this and found a couple of references 
> from people on online forums, they referred to this occurrence as these few 
> TV's handling the RGB signal "incorrectly". Stating that when handled 
> 'correctly', one shouldn't be able to adjust the RGB channel's colour. I 
> wonder if that is so? Or are they just handling the signal 
> 'differently'.....as opposed to "incorrectly"? 

Well, they are processing the image for various reasons (commonly 100hz
models but also lots of 50hz ones with noise reduction etc) so I suppose
technically it's incorrect as the RGB values should be absolute (I
think). My Sony 100hz Wega and my 50hz Panasonic Quintrix let you fiddle
with the colour on RGB, but not my cheapo 21" Akai or Sharp sets.

-- 
Mike Jenkins
Dreamcast/Gamecube FAQs - http://www.kwik-e-mart.org
Mike's Auctions: http://tinyurl.com/2374h

Slitheen wrote:
> 
> Composite is barely one up from an RF lead, although the sound is very much 
> better (than RF). As the t'other bloke said, stick with [glorious] RGB. 
> Although PLEASE REMEMBER, Nintendo were typically shady bastards and made 
> their overpriced, bog standard quality RGB cable to be the only one that 
> *actually* gives you an RGB picture - this has been debated wildly in the 
> past, but a simple experiment will prove it.

Are you sure it wasn't just one of the main 3rd party manufacturers just 
completely making a knacker out of it, rather than Nintendo doing 
anything funny?  Besides, I think my Nintendo RGB lead only cost a 
tenner from Toys R Us, but then I didn't have a GC from the very start 
(when the leads were £25 or something equally daft).  The "you can't use 
the 60Hz option in games without this lead" rubbish should have had 
trading standards knocking though.


<snip>
> Now, that was the case as I last found it anyway - in the recent past, I 
> don't know if the 3rd party companies have sussed Nintendo's sly little 
> wiring trickery or not, and some *may* now be making *real* RGB cube SCART

As far as I'm aware, 3rd party RGB SCART GC leads have been working 
correctly for years, though there were a few at the beginning that didn't.


> leads, I don't know. And *if* they are, one or two might even be making 
> double shielded leads, with 24kt gold plated contacts, 

Gold plating is there to reduce/eliminate corrosion, it apparently 
doesn't do much to improve the picture quality (though a corroded 
contact would undoubtedly be worse), it just looks shiny.

-- 
[ste]
"No cars go
Where we know"

"[ste parker]"  wrote in message 
news:4351knF1lv05vU1@individual.net...
>
> Gold plating is there to reduce/eliminate corrosion, it apparently doesn't 
> do much to improve the picture quality (though a corroded contact would 
> undoubtedly be worse), it just looks shiny.

You're right - it is a corrosion preventative measure, but that with OFC and 
adequate screening makes a world of diff - besides, isn't gold supposed to 
conduct the signal betteer too?

I'm no Hi-Fi/AV Wanker by a long chalk, and these £50 Monster SCART's you 
see are a rip off, but when you make the step from a £2.99, bog standard 
cable, to say, the Nikkai Pure Connectivity range that Maplin sell, it's 
amazing the jump in quality.....but the jump from a £20 SCART to a £100 
SCART is simply not there, IMO. Now I'm talking AV SCART's here, not 
console - but you can get PS2/XBOX SCART's with OFC, double screening and 
gold connects - and they really help improve things. The Gamecube official 
is more akin to a £3 Argos SCART you'd buy for a DVD/Video etc. For the 
price, it should have been well better. And I know all us lot use the Argos 
SCART box trick for our audio out, but we are enthusiasts, Joe Public, in 
his ignorence of better knowledge, has a poor choice of either RGB, or 
Dolby.....using only official options. Unless they suss onto what we all 
seem to do with the SCART multipoint/switchers.

P.S, if anyone knows of a fancy shmansy 3rd party Cube SCART - the real RGB, 
OFC and gold kind.....please, let me know. Thanks. I know 'Monster' make 
them for the other two consoles [3 now], but not us. We lose out agin. ;(

Slitheen wrote:
> "[ste parker]"  wrote in message 
> news:4351knF1lv05vU1@individual.net...
> 
>>Gold plating is there to reduce/eliminate corrosion, it apparently doesn't 
>>do much to improve the picture quality (though a corroded contact would 
>>undoubtedly be worse), it just looks shiny.
> 
> 
> You're right - it is a corrosion preventative measure, but that with OFC and 
> adequate screening makes a world of diff - besides, isn't gold supposed to 
> conduct the signal betteer too?
> 
> I'm no Hi-Fi/AV Wanker by a long chalk, and these £50 Monster SCART's you 
> see are a rip off, but when you make the step from a £2.99, bog standard 
> cable, to say, the Nikkai Pure Connectivity range that Maplin sell, it's 
> amazing the jump in quality.....but the jump from a £20 SCART to a £100 
> SCART is simply not there, IMO. Now I'm talking AV SCART's here, not 
> console - but you can get PS2/XBOX SCART's with OFC, double screening and 
> gold connects - and they really help improve things. The Gamecube official 
> is more akin to a £3 Argos SCART you'd buy for a DVD/Video etc. For the 
> price, it should have been well better. And I know all us lot use the Argos 
> SCART box trick for our audio out, but we are enthusiasts, Joe Public, in 
> his ignorence of better knowledge, has a poor choice of either RGB, or 
> Dolby.....using only official options. Unless they suss onto what we all 
> seem to do with the SCART multipoint/switchers.
> 
> P.S, if anyone knows of a fancy shmansy 3rd party Cube SCART - the real RGB, 
> OFC and gold kind.....please, let me know. Thanks. I know 'Monster' make 
> them for the other two consoles [3 now], but not us. We lose out agin. ;(
> 
> 
> 

When i worked at TRU I educated a lot of people to the ways of the Argos 
Switch Box. The look on their faces when they found out they could do 
such things was great sometimes!

"Satanica"  wrote in message 
news:dqrae5$jhr$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> When i worked at TRU I educated a lot of people to the ways of the Argos 
> Switch Box. The look on their faces when they found out they could do such 
> things was great sometimes!

Zen and the art of the Argos switchbox. ;)

Slitheen wrote:
> "[ste parker]"  wrote in message 
> news:4351knF1lv05vU1@individual.net...
> 
>>Gold plating is there to reduce/eliminate corrosion, it apparently doesn't 
>>do much to improve the picture quality (though a corroded contact would 
>>undoubtedly be worse), it just looks shiny.
> 
> 
> You're right - it is a corrosion preventative measure, but that with OFC and 
> adequate screening makes a world of diff - besides, isn't gold supposed to 
> conduct the signal betteer too?
> 

Apparently not, no, but I can't remember where I read that off the top 
of my head so it could be rubbish.

> I'm no Hi-Fi/AV Wanker by a long chalk, and these £50 Monster SCART's you 
> see are a rip off, but when you make the step from a £2.99, bog standard 
> cable, to say, the Nikkai Pure Connectivity range that Maplin sell, it's 
> amazing the jump in quality.....but the jump from a £20 SCART to a £100 
> SCART is simply not there, IMO. Now I'm talking AV SCART's here, not 
> console - but you can get PS2/XBOX SCART's with OFC, double screening and 
> gold connects - and they really help improve things.

I've found the best rule of thumb = the thicker the lead the better 
(usually means better/more shielding or whatever).


-- 
[ste]
"No cars go
Where we know"