To judges/TOs etc:

Yet again another top8 match in a PTQ has been decided on highest life
totals after going to time in Reading on Saturday. This is the third
match like this I've been involved in (I've won 2 out of 3 so this
isn't sour grapes) and each has effectively been a coin flip. Given
that a table judge was employed to watch for slow play, which did not
occur, surely these matches should be untimed? I understand that some
venues have to close by a certain time (hotels, etc.) but shops should
not have this limitation given that a flight and invitation to the PT
is on the line. Bringing in £450 in 1 day (plus peripheral sales)
surely warrants an additional 30 mins where required?

Points welcome, Guy.

Btw, who won?

I wasn't at the event in question, but the Magic Floor Rules states
that minimum match time limits are 40 minutes, recommended limits for
the Swiss are 50 minutes, quarters and semis 90 minutes, finals
untimed.

However, recommended means just that - they're not manadatory.  It's
quite common in practise for quarters and semis to be limited to 60
minutes due to venue considerations - still more time than you get in
the Swiss, still reasonable for the TO.

I have seen an untimed final go on for over 3 hours.  It's not pretty
for anyone involved.  Top 8 matches being decided on life totals isn't
pretty either, but business is business.

Paul Smith, active Level 2 judge.

On 22 June, 10:09, Guy  wrote:
> To judges/TOs etc:
>
> Yet again another top8 match in a PTQ has been decided on highest life
> totals after going to time in Reading on Saturday. This is the third
> match like this I've been involved in (I've won 2 out of 3 so this
> isn't sour grapes) and each has effectively been a coin flip. Given
> that a table judge was employed to watch for slow play, which did not
> occur, surely these matches should be untimed? I understand that some
> venues have to close by a certain time (hotels, etc.) but shops should
> not have this limitation given that a flight and invitation to the PT
> is on the line. Bringing in £450 in 1 day (plus peripheral sales)
> surely warrants an additional 30 mins where required?
>
> Points welcome, Guy.
>
> Btw, who won?

Carlos beat pete in the finals.

Do judges need to be tighter watching for slow play?

> "DeTeReR" wrote in message...
> 
> Do judges need to be tighter watching for slow play?

Yes.

> "eratos" wrote in message...
>I wasn't at the event in question, but the Magic Floor Rules states
> that minimum match time limits are 40 minutes, recommended limits for
> the Swiss are 50 minutes, quarters and semis 90 minutes, finals
> untimed.
>
> However, recommended means just that - they're not manadatory.  It's
> quite common in practise for quarters and semis to be limited to 60
> minutes due to venue considerations - still more time than you get in
> the Swiss, still reasonable for the TO.

The following is taken from the PTQ fact sheet 
(http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=mtgcom/protour/austin09-qualifiers)

    .Top 8 matches will have no time limit

Untimed quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals are mandatory for PTQs

On Jun 23, 3:54 pm, "The Games Club" <play @ thegamesclub.org> wrote:
> > "eratos" wrote in message...
> >I wasn't at the event in question, but the Magic Floor Rules states
> > that minimum match time limits are 40 minutes, recommended limits for
> > the Swiss are 50 minutes, quarters and semis 90 minutes, finals
> > untimed.
>
> > However, recommended means just that - they're not manadatory.  It's
> > quite common in practise for quarters and semis to be limited to 60
> > minutes due to venue considerations - still more time than you get in
> > the Swiss, still reasonable for the TO.
>
> The following is taken from the PTQ fact sheet
> (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=mtgcom/protour/austin0.>     .Top 8 matches will have no time limit
>
> Untimed quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals are mandatory for PTQs

Is this a recent change for PTQs?

On 23 June, 19:34, "pandimuspr...@gmail.com" 
wrote:
> On Jun 23, 3:54 pm, "The Games Club" <play @ thegamesclub.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > "eratos" wrote in message...
> > >I wasn't at the event in question, but the Magic Floor Rules states
> > > that minimum match time limits are 40 minutes, recommended limits for
> > > the Swiss are 50 minutes, quarters and semis 90 minutes, finals
> > > untimed.
>
> > > However, recommended means just that - they're not manadatory.  It's
> > > quite common in practise for quarters and semis to be limited to 60
> > > minutes due to venue considerations - still more time than you get in
> > > the Swiss, still reasonable for the TO.
>
> > The following is taken from the PTQ fact sheet
> > (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=mtgcom/protour/austin0...)
>
> >     .Top 8 matches will have no time limit
>
> > Untimed quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals are mandatory for PTQs
>
> Is this a recent change for PTQs?

Hmm, I had missed this on the fact sheet.  I've reposted the
discussion on the UK judge forum and will get back to you when I've
heard something from someone higher up than me.

On 23 June, 10:03, DeTeReR  wrote:
> On 22 June, 10:09, Guy  wrote:
>
>
>
> > To judges/TOs etc:
>
> > Yet again another top8 match in a PTQ has been decided on highest life
> > totals after going to time in Reading on Saturday. This is the third
> > match like this I've been involved in (I've won 2 out of 3 so this
> > isn't sour grapes) and each has effectively been a coin flip. Given
> > that a table judge was employed to watch for slow play, which did not
> > occur, surely these matches should be untimed? I understand that some
> > venues have to close by a certain time (hotels, etc.) but shops should
> > not have this limitation given that a flight and invitation to the PT
> > is on the line. Bringing in £450 in 1 day (plus peripheral sales)
> > surely warrants an additional 30 mins where required?
>
> > Points welcome, Guy.
>
> > Btw, who won?
>
> Carlos beat pete in the finals.
>
> Do judges need to be tighter watching for slow play?

personally I feel slow play is a problem and agree all judges should
be more observant for it. I know many players feel aggrieved when you
warn them for slow play. Players need to be reminded that just because
a round is untimed does not give them a licence to take as long as
they like. During top 8 matches we should be still watching for slow
play and whether it is round 1 or the Final if a player is playing
slow they should be warned about it.

Graham

>  pandimusprime@gmail.com wrote in message...
>
> Is this a recent change for PTQs?

No.

> > On 22 June, 10:09, Guy  wrote:
>
> > > To judges/TOs etc:
>
> > > Yet again another top8 match in a PTQ has been decided on highest life
> > > totals after going to time in Reading on Saturday. This is the third
> > > match like this I've been involved in (I've won 2 out of 3 so this
> > > isn't sour grapes) and each has effectively been a coin flip. Given
> > > that a table judge was employed to watch for slow play, which did not
> > > occur, surely these matches should be untimed? I understand that some
> > > venues have to close by a certain time (hotels, etc.) but shops should
> > > not have this limitation given that a flight and invitation to the PT
> > > is on the line. Bringing in £450 in 1 day (plus peripheral sales)
> > > surely warrants an additional 30 mins where required?
>
> > > Points welcome, Guy.
>
> > > Btw, who won?
>
> > Carlos beat pete in the finals.
>
> > Do judges need to be tighter watching for slow play?
>
> personally I feel slow play is a problem and agree all judges should
> be more observant for it. I know many players feel aggrieved when you
> warn them for slow play. Players need to be reminded that just because
> a round is untimed does not give them a licence to take as long as
> they like. During top 8 matches we should be still watching for slow
> play and whether it is round 1 or the Final if a player is playing
> slow they should be warned about it.
>
> Graham- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Of course this should be the case, and if you read my post, you will
see that a judge was present throughout the match. In both games
(proper games I mean) that we played, both our decks were <30 cards
(we counted at one point), so the match was bound to go long. In fact
we discussed this during sideboarding and neither of us, nor the
judge, felt that slow play was present.

Frank Karsten was given warnings for slow play in the top 8 of Worlds
a couple of years ago, so slow play is not something that should be/is
limited to the swiss.

On 24 June, 10:36, Guy  wrote:
> > > On 22 June, 10:09, Guy  wrote:
>
> > > > To judges/TOs etc:
>
> > > > Yet again another top8 match in a PTQ has been decided on highest life
> > > > totals after going to time in Reading on Saturday. This is the third
> > > > match like this I've been involved in (I've won 2 out of 3 so this
> > > > isn't sour grapes) and each has effectively been a coin flip. Given
> > > > that a table judge was employed to watch for slow play, which did not
> > > > occur, surely these matches should be untimed? I understand that some
> > > > venues have to close by a certain time (hotels, etc.) but shops should
> > > > not have this limitation given that a flight and invitation to the PT
> > > > is on the line. Bringing in £450 in 1 day (plus peripheral sales)
> > > > surely warrants an additional 30 mins where required?
>
> > > > Points welcome, Guy.
>
> > > > Btw, who won?
>
> > > Carlos beat pete in the finals.
>
> > > Do judges need to be tighter watching for slow play?
>
> > personally I feel slow play is a problem and agree all judges should
> > be more observant for it. I know many players feel aggrieved when you
> > warn them for slow play. Players need to be reminded that just because
> > a round is untimed does not give them a licence to take as long as
> > they like. During top 8 matches we should be still watching for slow
> > play and whether it is round 1 or the Final if a player is playing
> > slow they should be warned about it.
>
> > Graham- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Of course this should be the case, and if you read my post, you will
> see that a judge was present throughout the match. In both games
> (proper games I mean) that we played, both our decks were <30 cards
> (we counted at one point), so the match was bound to go long. In fact
> we discussed this during sideboarding and neither of us, nor the
> judge, felt that slow play was present.
>
> Frank Karsten was given warnings for slow play in the top 8 of Worlds
> a couple of years ago, so slow play is not something that should be/is
> limited to the swiss.

For those of you interested in the PTQ in Southampton on Saturday it
is very likely that the top 8 matches will be untimed. I am however
awaiting confirmation on this but this is looking likely. Time may be
an issue as always but I dont think this will be a problem and I
intend to run this untimed if at all possible. As I have  stated
previously we will be looking for slow play throughout the event and
just because players are into extra turns they will be expected to
play at a reasonable speed. I think players and staff both share a
responsibility to make sure the event proceeds at a reasonable speed.
Hopefully everyone can have an enjoyable event.

There will also be Block Drafts side events throughout the day for
those who dont want to play in the main event.

Thank you

Graham

Hi Folks,

There seems to be a fair amount of speculation flying about, so I just
thought I'd clarify the official policy on this. It is *desirable* for
PTQ Top 8 rounds to be untimed. The proposed time limits for the Top 8
rounds should be announced at the beginning of the tournament and
should only change in the event of an unforeseen issue.

This has been confirmed by John Carter @ Wizards.

Cheers

Nick Sephton
DCI Judge Coordinator UK & Ireland
DCI Judge Level 3

We're certainly intending to run this Saturday's PTQ in Manchester
untimed.

Dave Salisbury
Fan Boy Three