science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss

Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

===
DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
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mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
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A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk

mill367@aol.com wrote:
> 
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...

Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
subjects are no easier than any others.

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

In article <46346D1E.5F2A3444@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid>, 
Frederick_Williams@antispamhotmail.co.uk.invalid says...
> Meanwhile I bet the teachers of the soft options will insist that their
> subjects are no easier than any others.

Isn't one of the main problems the complexity of A-level Maths and 
limited options post studying it?
-- 
Spread the word: http://ethicalexpert.com/
Carbon cutting mailing list: http://ethicalexpert.com/mailing-list/

A pretty distorted vision of the BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6588695.stm

which is at least mentioned.  There certainly is a reasonable argument 
concerning what the content of pre university mathematics should be. 
Since the divisions of age and preparation are quite different for 
different countries I suspect that such comments are not meaningful.  I 
wonder if the inclusion of more statistics in the UK is good or not?

If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by 
changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the 
educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  Of course 
if you look at the articles in YYY they often are talking about how 
their system needs to be more like XXX.

If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to 
how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation.  And, better, how 
the top 10% of the population are faring at age 25 or so.



mill367@aol.com wrote:
> science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/1625216&from=rss
> 
> Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting that students in the UK are being
> encouraged to drop math at the senior levels. It seems that schools
> are seeking to boost their standing on league tables by encouraging
> students not to take 'hard' subjects like mathematics, in favor of
> easier subjects in which they are assured good grades. The result is
> Universities being forced to provide remedial math ...
> 
> ===
> DrillBits Educational Software: http://members.aol.com/mill367
>

In article <4634cb49$0$4731$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Frank F. Matthews  wrote:
>If the problem is the criteria for admission that is easily remedied by
>changing the standards.  If there is consensus that there is a problem.

	Indeed.  The latest complaints are coming from the chemists;
if they feel they need A-level maths for admission to HE, it's in
their own hands.  Somewhat perversely, they may well find that raising
their standards would get them more, as well as better, students.

>It is amusing to read articles complaining about how much better the
>educational system in XXX is doing compared to ours in YYY.  [...]

	Right.  The RSC's complaint seems particularly weird.  It's
as though I went into Waterstone's in Manchester and bought a copy of
"Pride and Prejudice", and then into Waterstone's in Birmingham and
bought a copy of "Janet and John", and tried to deduce that the good
people of Manchester were incredibly more advanced readers than those
of Birmingham.

>If you want to discuss the educational; system then limit comparisons to
>how the graduates are doing a decade after graduation. [...]

	If China is so much more advanced mathematically than the UK,
then it is somewhat surprising how keen they are to send their best
students to UK universities;  and even more surprising that those
students are not streets ahead of "home-grown" students in terms of
their background and experience.  [FWIW, the particular Chinese
question highlighted by the RSC is quite similar to questions to be
found at A-level.]

-- 
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk