Hi, I want to join some Cat5 cable so that its easily
movable/drawable, unobstructive and damp proof. 

I'm considering these heatshrink connectors:
http://tinyurl.com/no5cuy
further overlaid with some heatshrink tubing.

What does the "solder adhesive lined" mean in terms of the heating of
the connector? Does the solder adhesive require no heat at all; just
the heat from the heatshrinking process; or normal soldering
temperature applied in some separate way?
-- 
Kind regards,
Geoff Mills

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills  wrote:

> Hi, I want to join some Cat5 cable so that its easily
> movable/drawable, unobstructive and damp proof. 

You're in luck, Ethernet cable comes already pullable and damp resistant
and so there's no need to join any together to achieve that :-)

Seriously, why not get http://tinyurl.com/njwv6g and sleep well at night?

If there was a real need to join cables I would first just tie knots in
them in order to pull the cables, and then when the joins were in place use
IDC connectors such as Scotchlok etc.  I can think of no well engineered
solution to make cable joins that are both pullable and reliable, but maybe
someone else knows a better answer.

> What does the "solder adhesive lined" mean in terms of the heating of
> the connector? Does the solder adhesive require no heat at all; just
> the heat from the heatshrinking process; or normal soldering
> temperature applied in some separate way?

No idea.  But Durite seems to specialise in automobile electrical parts and
not communications.  Anyway ask them http://durite.co.uk/Contact.aspx

Tony

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:37:44 +0100, "Anthony R. Gold"
 wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills  wrote:
>
>> Hi, I want to join some Cat5 cable so that its easily
>> movable/drawable, unobstructive and damp proof. 
>
>You're in luck, Ethernet cable comes already pullable and damp resistant
>and so there's no need to join any together to achieve that :-)

No need at all but I want to experiment. For "home-network" you could
read "plaything".

>Seriously, why not get http://tinyurl.com/njwv6g and sleep well at night?

I've got oodles of the stuff already. I'm not sleeping to well
recently though but that's another story.

>If there was a real need to join cables I would first just tie knots in
>them in order to pull the cables, and then when the joins were in place use
>IDC connectors such as Scotchlok etc.  I can think of no well engineered
>solution to make cable joins that are both pullable and reliable, but maybe
>someone else knows a better answer.

The beauty of my home-network is that if things go wrong, billions
won't be lost to the financial system and no patients will receive the
wrong op.

>> What does the "solder adhesive lined" mean in terms of the heating of
>> the connector? Does the solder adhesive require no heat at all; just
>> the heat from the heatshrinking process; or normal soldering
>> temperature applied in some separate way?
>
>No idea.  But Durite seems to specialise in automobile electrical parts and
>not communications.  Anyway ask them http://durite.co.uk/Contact.aspx

They're the only heatshrink butt connectors I've found so far which
contain solder of some type. I will ask elsewhere but I thought there
would be no harm in asking here first.
Thanks for the reply.
>
>Tony

-- 
Kind regards,
Geoff Mills

"Geoff Mills"  wrote in message 
news:3t8fb5pln8vq41m8ar87hgg29m6nj103q0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:37:44 +0100, "Anthony R. Gold"
>  wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills  
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I want to join some Cat5 cable so that its easily
>>> movable/drawable, unobstructive and damp proof.
>>
>>You're in luck, Ethernet cable comes already pullable and damp resistant
>>and so there's no need to join any together to achieve that :-)
>
> No need at all but I want to experiment. For "home-network" you could
> read "plaything".
>

People keep answering your computer questions.  A lot you know the
answer to already from your replies, some you don't want to take advice
from.  So it is difficult to know exactly what you are after.  Are you
testing a newsreader, timing how long it takes for people to stop
replying or just after an argument and pretending you know nothing
about computers?  If you're just bored go to a forum or chatline,
if you can't sleep go and see your doctor.
Why don't you try Google!  It will keep you amused for hours and
also answer every single question you ask here.
If you get bored, go and look at uncoverreality.com or something.
Do what you like with your computer stuff, tell us what you have
broken - it will be far more entertaining and will put others off.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:52:50 +0100, "Roger"
 wrote:

>
>"Geoff Mills"  wrote in message 
>news:3t8fb5pln8vq41m8ar87hgg29m6nj103q0@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:37:44 +0100, "Anthony R. Gold"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills  
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, I want to join some Cat5 cable so that its easily
>>>> movable/drawable, unobstructive and damp proof.
>>>
>>>You're in luck, Ethernet cable comes already pullable and damp resistant
>>>and so there's no need to join any together to achieve that :-)
>>
>> No need at all but I want to experiment. For "home-network" you could
>> read "plaything".
>>
>
>People keep answering your computer questions. 

I suppose that this being so, it could be interpreted in different
ways. I see it as a positive and helpful thing and I'm appreciative of
that.

> A lot you know the answer to already from your replies,

These venues used to be called newsgroups, probably still are by many.
Discussion group might be a more appropriate description.
On this basis I was hoping to discuss the relative merits of joining
cat5 cable by the method described in the subject line.
I  do already know it's generally considered to be preferable to use
continuous cable, so you're right in that respect.

>  some you don't want to take advice from.  

That's right! I neither want or need to buy a new roll of cable in the
context of this situation. So to suggest the answer to my question was
to buy cable from ebay was advice I didn't feel appropriate.

>So it is difficult to know exactly what you are after.  

No one is a perfect communicator. Even so, I don't think it really is
as difficult to know what my purpose is as you suggest. After all the
subject line is clear enough and the following body text is not really
complicated. So I don't think you're being totally honest here. 

What you seem to be suggesting is that I shouldn't be asking these
questions here and that you, as a gatekeeper or censor of this
discussion group are exercising your right to determine what can be
discussed here and what form that discussion should follow.
Well, it does take all sorts, as they say.

>Are you testing a newsreader, timing how long it takes for people to stop
>replying or just after an argument and pretending you know nothing
>about computers?  

None of those I assure you. I don't even understand how you arrive at
these ideas, other than it being another attempt on your part to
impose control.

> If you're just bored go to a forum or chatline,

That's a bit insulting.

>if you can't sleep go and see your doctor.

I didn't come here to discuss my sleep patterns. This part of the
discussion was introduced by someone else.

>Why don't you try Google!  

Why, is that a trial too big for you to conduct?

>It will keep you amused for hours and
>also answer every single question you ask here.
>If you get bored, go and look at uncoverreality.com or something.
>Do what you like with your computer stuff, tell us what you have
>broken - it will be far more entertaining and will put others off.

Sorry that I caused you to respond so antagonistically. 


-- 
Kind regards,
Geoff Mills

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills 
wrote:


>I'm considering these heatshrink connectors:
>http://tinyurl.com/no5cuy
>further overlaid with some heatshrink tubing.

Those are specified to work over a wire  with a cross sectional area
of 0.6 to 2mm squared (about 0.9 to 1.6mm diameter) .  They are also
meant for multi-strand cables, not single core.  The solder rings
usually have insufficient solder to reliably join two single core
wires.

Cat 5 is 0.205mm squared in cross sectional area (about 0.5mm
diameter).  This is only about half of the minimum cable diameter for
the connector.  The connector therefore will not make a reliable or
waterproof connection on Cat 5.

>What does the "solder adhesive lined" mean in terms of the heating of
>the connector? Does the solder adhesive require no heat at all; just
>the heat from the heatshrinking process; 

It requires only heat from the heatshrinking process - but more of it
than normal and the use of a reflector nozzle to spread heat around
the back of the joint.  With low temperature thin cable this often
means the cable insulation near the joint is damaged by the heat.
Certainly using something like a domestic paint stripper hot air gun
is pretty well doomed to failure.  A temperature controlled gun with a
smaller nozzle is usually used, something like :-
http://uk.farnell.com/steinel/hg-2310lcd-uk/hot-air-gun-230v-uk-lcd/dp/1702591

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:41:20 +0100
Geoff Mills  wrote:
> 
> Sorry that I caused you to respond so antagonistically. 
> 
Ignore it, it's a lower life form with no redeeming qualities.

Geoff Mills wrote:

> Sorry that I caused you to respond so antagonistically. 
> 
> 

Geoff, next time someone responds to you like that and before wasting 
time responding, do some googling on their previous trolling.

The tiscali idiot's actions of a psychopath :-(

-- 
Adrian C

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:12:53 +0100, Peter Parry 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:50:49 +0100, Geoff Mills 
>wrote:
>
>
>>I'm considering these heatshrink connectors:
>>http://tinyurl.com/no5cuy
>>further overlaid with some heatshrink tubing.
>
>Those are specified to work over a wire  with a cross sectional area
>of 0.6 to 2mm squared (about 0.9 to 1.6mm diameter) .  They are also
>meant for multi-strand cables, not single core.  The solder rings
>usually have insufficient solder to reliably join two single core
>wires.
>
>Cat 5 is 0.205mm squared in cross sectional area (about 0.5mm
>diameter).  This is only about half of the minimum cable diameter for
>the connector.  The connector therefore will not make a reliable or
>waterproof connection on Cat 5.

Thanks for clarifying that. I have seen some smaller heatshrink butt
connectors but not yet found any containing solder. The
stranded/single core wire type is also a big factor as you point out.
I was hoping that someone might know of a variation on this connector
that was more suitable for cat5 cable.

>>What does the "solder adhesive lined" mean in terms of the heating of
>>the connector? Does the solder adhesive require no heat at all; just
>>the heat from the heatshrinking process; 
>
>It requires only heat from the heatshrinking process - but more of it
>than normal and the use of a reflector nozzle to spread heat around
>the back of the joint.  With low temperature thin cable this often
>means the cable insulation near the joint is damaged by the heat.
>Certainly using something like a domestic paint stripper hot air gun
>is pretty well doomed to failure.  A temperature controlled gun with a
>smaller nozzle is usually used, something like :-
>http://uk.farnell.com/steinel/hg-2310lcd-uk/hot-air-gun-230v-uk-lcd/dp/1702591

Thanks, taking into account the cautions you've provided I'll
experiment and see what results I can produce. 
-- 
Kind regards,
Geoff Mills

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:39:47 +0100, Geoff Mills 
wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:12:53 +0100, Peter Parry 

>>Cat 5 is 0.205mm squared in cross sectional area (about 0.5mm
>>diameter).  This is only about half of the minimum cable diameter for
>>the connector.  The connector therefore will not make a reliable or
>>waterproof connection on Cat 5.
>
>Thanks for clarifying that. I have seen some smaller heatshrink butt
>connectors but not yet found any containing solder. The
>stranded/single core wire type is also a big factor as you point out.
>I was hoping that someone might know of a variation on this connector
>that was more suitable for cat5 cable.

Crimp connectors done with a proper ratchet  tool rather than the
usual cheap pliers type, are much more reliable than solder
connections and work well.  For Cat 5 the usual red/blue/yellow crimps
are however unsuitable as the red range (the smallest) has a minimum
cable size of 22AWG (0.64mm diameter) compared with Cat 5's diameter
of  0.511mm.  Obviously for crimp connectors the cable size is
critical as the crimp force is too low if the cable is too small and
the joint will be both weak and likely to corrode..

Smaller crimp fittings are available but as they are
industrial/aerospace  and not that common the prices of both tools and
crimps tends to be high.

>Thanks, taking into account the cautions you've provided I'll
>experiment and see what results I can produce. 

The usual way of joining single core telecomms type cable in adverse
environments is the "Jelly bean" connector, eg:_

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/342628.xml

These are small gel filled Insulation Displacement connectors (IDC).
The cables to be joined are cut but not stripped, pushed into the
connector and the connector gently squeezed (ideally using a pair of
pliers with a 5mm gap in the jaws so you don't crush the joint).  The
blades in the connector join the wires, the splice itself is filled
with a thick jelly which makes the connection completely waterproof.  

The problem with Cat 5 is that it is difficult to maintain the twist
between pairs using these connectors and this causes an impedance
discontinuity which will affect data rates.

Whichever connector is chosen maintaining the even twist on the wires
is important if the link is to be reliable at any speed.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:25:17 +0100
Peter Parry  wrote:

> The problem with Cat 5 is that it is difficult to maintain the twist
> between pairs using these connectors and this causes an impedance
> discontinuity which will affect data rates.
> 
Didn't he say he wanted to pull the spliced cable?

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:49:12 +0100, Rob Morley 
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:25:17 +0100
>Peter Parry  wrote:
>
>> The problem with Cat 5 is that it is difficult to maintain the twist
>> between pairs using these connectors and this causes an impedance
>> discontinuity which will affect data rates.
>> 
>Didn't he say he wanted to pull the spliced cable?

Yes - I'd forgotten that.  Really the only option then is hand joining
(soldering), wrapping each joint with thin strips of self amalgamating
rubber and then using adhesive lined heatshrink over the lot.  Even
doing this the cable would be weaker at that point and at least 2-4
times its normal diameter.  It is an awful lot of fuss when Cat 5 can
usually be bought for about £30 per 300m box.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:46:07 +0100, Peter Parry 
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:49:12 +0100, Rob Morley 
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:25:17 +0100
>>Peter Parry  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with Cat 5 is that it is difficult to maintain the twist
>>> between pairs using these connectors and this causes an impedance
>>> discontinuity which will affect data rates.
>>> 
>>Didn't he say he wanted to pull the spliced cable?
>
>Yes - I'd forgotten that.  Really the only option then is hand joining
>(soldering), wrapping each joint with thin strips of self amalgamating
>rubber and then using adhesive lined heatshrink over the lot.  Even
>doing this the cable would be weaker at that point and at least 2-4
>times its normal diameter.  It is an awful lot of fuss when Cat 5 can
>usually be bought for about £30 per 300m box.

In terms of the possibilities available, I think you've covered them
in most informative and convincing detail. I certainly know a lot more
as a consequence, so thanks very much for  the explanations Peter.
-- 
Kind regards,
Geoff Mills