Can anyone tell me any difference(s) between ZyXEL P-660HW-D and P-660HW-T?

Thanks for any pointers or advice.

Tony

Anthony R. Gold wrote, on 06/09/09 11:10:
> Can anyone tell me any difference(s) between ZyXEL P-660HW-D and P-660HW-T?
> 
> Thanks for any pointers or advice.
> 
> Tony

The only place I've ever found where they are described, is on the 
datasheet for the T1 model, where different models are specified very 
briefly on the 2nd page, lower RHS.  The datasheet *seems* to be a 
generic flyer for all 660HW models:-

=== quote ===
Product Description
P-660HW-T1                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over POTS
P-660HW-T3                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
P-660HW-T1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over POTS
P-660HW-T3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
P-660HW-D1**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over POTS
P-660HW-D3**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
P-660HW-D1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over POTS
P-660HW-D3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
                               Gateway over ISDN/U-R2

** When the Wireless g+ SuperSpeed technology is enabled, the 
theoretical data rate can reach up to 125 Mbps among Wireless g+ 
SuperSpeed-enabled access points and clients. Actual performance may 
vary depending on different operating environments.
=== end-quote ===

So, the direct answer to your question appears to be that the 66HW-D 
models incorporate "g+ SuperSpeed" wireless technology which may or may 
not be the same as 802.11n.  I don't know 'cos I have the T1 model.

You can download datasheets for all variations of 660HW models direct 
from Zyxel in China, at this URL:-

http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_download_list.php?indexflag=20040909142026&ModelIndexflags=0,420041221102511,420041221102520,420050117110858,420050117110916,420050117110934,420050831093216,420050831095441,420060420160946,420060420161739,420060816160116

(http://tinyurl.com/lelfww)

-- 
Dave N

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:33:50 +0100, Dave N <nospam@werfner.org.uk.invalid>
wrote:

> Anthony R. Gold wrote, on 06/09/09 11:10:
>> Can anyone tell me any difference(s) between ZyXEL P-660HW-D and P-660HW-T?
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers or advice.
>>
>> Tony
>
> The only place I've ever found where they are described, is on the 
> datasheet for the T1 model, where different models are specified very 
> briefly on the 2nd page, lower RHS.  The datasheet *seems* to be a 
> generic flyer for all 660HW models:-
>
> === quote ===
> Product Description
> P-660HW-T1                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over POTS
> P-660HW-T3                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
> P-660HW-T1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over POTS
> P-660HW-T3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
> P-660HW-D1**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over POTS
> P-660HW-D3**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
> P-660HW-D1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over POTS
> P-660HW-D3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
>
> ** When the Wireless g+ SuperSpeed technology is enabled, the 
> theoretical data rate can reach up to 125 Mbps among Wireless g+ 
> SuperSpeed-enabled access points and clients. Actual performance may 
> vary depending on different operating environments.
> === end-quote ===
>
> So, the direct answer to your question appears to be that the 66HW-D 
> models incorporate "g+ SuperSpeed" wireless technology which may or may 
> not be the same as 802.11n.  I don't know 'cos I have the T1 model.
>
> You can download datasheets for all variations of 660HW models direct 
> from Zyxel in China, at this URL:-

Many thanks for those pointers and as you say, the D1 does show those three
asterisks but, asterisks apart, I still can not detect any differences.

The problem is that those two links for D1 and T1 datasheets both retrieve
the identical ZyXEL document number 65-100-006606G dated 03/07 that says
the subject device has g+.  And anyway I don't even need g+.  

Tony

Anthony R. Gold wrote, on 06/09/2009 14:10:
> On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:33:50 +0100, Dave N <nospam@werfner.org.uk.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> Anthony R. Gold wrote, on 06/09/09 11:10:
>>> Can anyone tell me any difference(s) between ZyXEL P-660HW-D and P-660HW-T?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any pointers or advice.
>>>
>>> Tony
>> The only place I've ever found where they are described, is on the 
>> datasheet for the T1 model, where different models are specified very 
>> briefly on the 2nd page, lower RHS.  The datasheet *seems* to be a 
>> generic flyer for all 660HW models:-
>>
>> === quote ===
>> Product Description
>> P-660HW-T1                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over POTS
>> P-660HW-T3                    802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
>> P-660HW-T1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over POTS
>> P-660HW-T3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
>> P-660HW-D1**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over POTS
>> P-660HW-D3**                  802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
>> P-660HW-D1 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over POTS
>> P-660HW-D3 v2                 802.11g Wireless ADSL2+ 4-port
>>                                Gateway over ISDN/U-R2
>>
>> ** When the Wireless g+ SuperSpeed technology is enabled, the 
>> theoretical data rate can reach up to 125 Mbps among Wireless g+ 
>> SuperSpeed-enabled access points and clients. Actual performance may 
>> vary depending on different operating environments.
>> === end-quote ===
>>
>> So, the direct answer to your question appears to be that the 66HW-D 
>> models incorporate "g+ SuperSpeed" wireless technology which may or may 
>> not be the same as 802.11n.  I don't know 'cos I have the T1 model.
>>
>> You can download datasheets for all variations of 660HW models direct 
>> from Zyxel in China, at this URL:-
> 
> Many thanks for those pointers and as you say, the D1 does show those three
> asterisks but, asterisks apart, I still can not detect any differences.
> 
> The problem is that those two links for D1 and T1 datasheets both retrieve
> the identical ZyXEL document number 65-100-006606G dated 03/07 that says
> the subject device has g+.  And anyway I don't even need g+.  
> 
> Tony

Have you looked through the User Guides (11MB!) for each of the 
different models?  They might explain some of the detail differences:-

http://tinyurl.com/3cxv57

-- 
Dave N

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:08:26 +0100, Dave N <nospam@werfner.org.uk.invalid>
wrote:

> Have you looked through the User Guides (11MB!) for each of the 
> different models?  They might explain some of the detail differences:-

Thanks and they are indeed huge!  A quick peeks shows the D1 manual has a
later date and mentions WPA2, the T1 an earlier date and with no mention of
WPA2, so I infer the D1 is newer and better. BTW in neither manual could I
find any mentions of g+ by name or in terms of an increased wireless speed.

Thanks for your help.

Tony

Dave N wrote:
> 
> Have you looked through the User Guides (11MB!) for each of the 
> different models?  They might explain some of the detail differences:-
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3cxv57

Be wary of Zyxel user guides. Some of the ones I have seen are sloppy 
cut-and-paste jobs from other user guides, describing some features that are 
not available on the unit in question, while omitting some which are.

There are also masses of things you might need to know, such as details of lots 
of telnet commands, which I haven't seen in any user guide I've looked at so 
far. Some of these are summarised in table form in PDFs enclosed with some (but 
not all) firmware releases, marked "confidential", and the details of many 
commands don't appear to be documented anywhere that I have seen.

Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:08:26 +0100, Dave N <nospam@werfner.org.uk.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> Have you looked through the User Guides (11MB!) for each of the 
>> different models?  They might explain some of the detail differences:-
> 
> Thanks and they are indeed huge!  A quick peeks shows the D1 manual has a
> later date and mentions WPA2, the T1 an earlier date and with no mention of
> WPA2, so I infer the D1 is newer and better. BTW in neither manual could I
> find any mentions of g+ by name or in terms of an increased wireless speed.

I have the T1 v2 and I'm using WPA2-PSK so it seems that (in this 
respect) the difference is in the documentation.

-- 
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html
http://www.ringers.org.uk

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
> There are also masses of things you might need to know, such as details 
> of lots of telnet commands, which I haven't seen in any user guide I've 
> looked at so far. Some of these are summarised in table form in PDFs 
> enclosed with some (but not all) firmware releases, marked 
> "confidential", and the details of many commands don't appear to be 
> documented anywhere that I have seen.

Some of the command are documented in the "Great Google". I found out 
about using "sys edit" to edit autoexec.net and the "ip nat loopback on" 
command that I edited into it.

I confess that I'd find an accurate manual interesting, if more than a 
little dangerous.

I'm happy to document any stuff that people find, on a webpage on 
www.swiftys.org.uk

Just send it to me, and I'll start the page.

-- 
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html
http://www.ringers.org.uk

On Sunday 06 September 2009 19:24, Alfred E Neuman wrote:

> Be wary of Zyxel user guides. Some of the ones I have seen are sloppy
> cut-and-paste jobs from other user guides, describing some features that
> are not available on the unit in question, while omitting some which are.

I have the P660R-D1. The user guide also covers the P660R-H, which is the 4
port version. The user guide covers both, and there's a table (easily
missed) near the front where one can see which features are in each model.
There's a lot of stuff that's in the -H but not the -R, and rather less
that's in the -R but not in the -H.

> There are also masses of things you might need to know, such as details of
> lots of telnet commands, which I haven't seen in any user guide I've
> looked at so far. Some of these are summarised in table form in PDFs
> enclosed with some (but not all) firmware releases, marked "confidential",
> and the details of many commands don't appear to be documented anywhere
> that I have seen.

I agree. If you download the 'release notes' you'll always get the latest
version of those commands, but it is just a table.

Generally, the commands are pretty obvious; they correspond closely to the
documented SMT menu items in the normal telnet interface (now dropped for
lack of memory, apparently). But ? will get a list, and if you type a
command followed by ?, you'll get a list of subcommands - and so on. Bit of
a maze though.
-- 
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

Swifty wrote, on 06/09/2009 19:33:
> Anthony R. Gold wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:08:26 +0100, Dave N 
>> <nospam@werfner.org.uk.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you looked through the User Guides (11MB!) for each of the 
>>> different models?  They might explain some of the detail differences:-
>>
>> Thanks and they are indeed huge!  A quick peeks shows the D1 manual has a
>> later date and mentions WPA2, the T1 an earlier date and with no 
>> mention of
>> WPA2, so I infer the D1 is newer and better. BTW in neither manual 
>> could I
>> find any mentions of g+ by name or in terms of an increased wireless 
>> speed.
> 
> I have the T1 v2 and I'm using WPA2-PSK so it seems that (in this 
> respect) the difference is in the documentation.

Indeed, I have the T1 (original, not v2) which also claims in the menus 
to do WPA2.  I haven't yet checked that for myself since an old laptop 
we have can't be upgraded to WPA2 but I can confirm that WPA-PSK works 
as expected.  I don't think that it was enabled through a firmware 
upgrade since WPA2 is mentioned in the Appendix to the User Guide (see 
below).  Nevertheless, to be complete I am using version 340AC17.5CO of 
the firmware which I got via Zyxel UK's (IIRC) web site under downloads 
for "legacy" models, and the comment in the readme file should be noted 
carefully:-

===== quote =====
This firmware fixes the problem were you cant connected wirelessly when 
your router has a security\network.

This is normally a problem for Dell and Macs, but can also affect other 
new laptops with the latest wireless cards.

Please not that you will have to have 340ACI7C0 uploaded to your router 
before this firmware will work. You can download it from our website
===== end-quote =====

The User Guide for the 660HW-T1 only speaks about WPA-PSK in the 
wireless setup section but if you look at Appendix A (Specifications) it 
does show the capability as "WPA(2), WPA(2)-PSK".

As Alfred Neuman commented, the User Guides do leave an impression of 
having been cobbled together in a bit of a rush using bits from old 
versions and consequently inconsistent with the actual specification.

-- 
Dave N