On 24 Dec 2008, 15:07, "Will"  wrote:
> "Marge"  wrote in message
>
> news:83c83123-3b81-4856-9210-26c5631fe7d8@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 23 Dec, 18:44, Marge  wrote:
>
> >>Disabling network doesn't free the router socket, not sure if
> >>disabling network before shutting down would help, I wonder if its
> >>possible to start the PC without activating the NIC card, obviously
> >>its going to receive power but if it doesn't try to connect will it
> >>take over socket 4? (light it up)
>
> > YES IT DOES :o(
>
> > started PC with network still disabled but socket 4 lit up, network
> > was definitely disabled, had to enable it to get web page etc.
>
> > Seems this is a power issue which may not be possible to resolve, will
> > check bios setup etc to see if there are any green issues to save
> > power and only supply slots when needed? doubtful but hey.
>
> > Anyone know of any cards that don't do this or that have options to
> > stop it?
>
> Why are you even bothering with this?  Just get any £3-5 repeater/hub/small
> switch/gash router off ebee and fit it to make it all proper again.  If any
> green (or other) light worries you then just tape over it and pretend it
> itsn't there (it is probably only 10mA @ 2v anyway - c.20mW of power).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The light doesn't bother me ? its the fact than when the PC rj45 is
active(light on) I can't connect the 360, pretending the light isn't
on isn't an option. once the PC has been used even when I shut down it
keeps the socket active unless I totally remove all power from the PC,
ie switch off at the mains plug.

>
> Why are you even bothering with this? Just get any £3-5 repeater/hub/small
> switch/gash router off ebee and fit it to make it all proper again. If any
> green (or other) light worries you then just tape over it and pretend it
> itsn't there (it is probably only 10mA @ 2v anyway - c.20mW of power).- 
> Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The light doesn't bother me ? its the fact than when the PC rj45 is
active(light on) I can't connect the 360, pretending the light isn't
on isn't an option. once the PC has been used even when I shut down it
keeps the socket active unless I totally remove all power from the PC,
ie switch off at the mains plug.

In that case; see above.  Buy a cheap & cheerful (simple) hub/repeater and 
plug the 360, PC, router/modem/existing network into that. Anything will do, 
add some power (yeah, sorry it'll be another brick most likely), and I think 
all your problems will go away.
- After that you're into a bit of lightweight network troubleshooting.

Marge wrote:
>> In that case; see above.  Buy a cheap & cheerful (simple) hub/repeater and
>> plug the 360, PC, router/modem/existing network into that. Anything will do,
>> add some power (yeah, sorry it'll be another brick most likely), and I think
>> all your problems will go away.
>> - After that you're into a bit of lightweight network troubleshooting.
> 
> Yeh I know but I really don't want another power supply humming away
> to feed another switch, I would be better off with a larger router
> with more sockets but thats expensive so I believe.
> 
> I wonder if NIC card & MB manufacturers will ever make network
> connections power consumption work more like the 360?

You mean "go back to making" :-) I presume the 360 does not have "wake
on LAN", which is the reason why most NICs and M/Bs have power and the
interface "semi-live".

I don't know if it will actually do what you want, but Scan computers
have a Dynamode NC1000TX-R card (Scan code LN21674, URL:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Dynamode-10-100-PCI-Network-Card-Low-Profile-Realtek-Chipset)
which, according to the Dynamode web-site, uses a "single 5v supply".
There appear to be W and WB versions which have WOL. You could try
contacting Scan to see if they can confirm it would do what you want.

-- 
PeeGee

"Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
to be removed from a computer easily."
Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)

> Thanks PeeGee,
> I have mailed them to see, noticed they have a green hardware section,
> maybe going back to making cards without WOL as an option would be
> quite green?
>
> I like being green to my pocket :o) I don't like things that draw
> power when I'm not using them. Mainly I want my cheap simple setup to
> do one little thing which as you point out is old hat really.
> Obviously an older card would work but then I would loose speed :o(

I've not got a '360 so can't test it. But I do wonder if there is more going 
on here that just a wol enabled nic problem.  I might suspect the switch on 
the router to be causing you grief here.
For what it's worth, very few of my 'bricks' hum or even get very warm.  My 
worse offender for audiable noise is a switch-mode unit (aka green) that 
feeds my telephone (same idea though, mains to low v plug-in).

Marge wrote:
> On 10 Jan, 15:39, "Will"  wrote:
>>> Thanks PeeGee,
>>> I have mailed them to see, noticed they have a green hardware section,
>>> maybe going back to making cards without WOL as an option would be
>>> quite green?
>>> I like being green to my pocket :o) I don't like things that draw
>>> power when I'm not using them. Mainly I want my cheap simple setup to
>>> do one little thing which as you point out is old hat really.
>>> Obviously an older card would work but then I would loose speed :o(
>> I've not got a '360 so can't test it. But I do wonder if there is more going
>> on here that just a wol enabled nic problem.  I might suspect the switch on
>> the router to be causing you grief here.
>> For what it's worth, very few of my 'bricks' hum or even get very warm.  My
>> worse offender for audiable noise is a switch-mode unit (aka green) that
>> feeds my telephone (same idea though, mains to low v plug-in).
> 
> :o)
> supplies don't actually hum, just a figure of speech for wasting
> electricity.
> 
> Socket on router is fine, if you have any physical indication on your
> router, ie light for each socket. switch on a PC which is connected to
> a particular socket & see it light up, then shut down windows & see if
> the light stays on. If it does, I'm guessing it will, then switch off
> the mains socket at the said PC which is already shut down & watch the
> light go off.
> 
> If you wait a few seconds & switch the mains plug back on the light
> will not light up, meaning the socket is free. When you power your pc
> & start windows it will regain that socket, light on.
> 

In your case, with your "sharer", that may be true. On my system, as
soon as the 5vSBY appears, the router light for that socket comes on -
which is what I would expect.

-- 
PeeGee

"Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
to be removed from a computer easily."
Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)

:o)
supplies don't actually hum, just a figure of speech for wasting
electricity.

Socket on router is fine, if you have any physical indication on your
router, ie light for each socket. switch on a PC which is connected to
a particular socket & see it light up, then shut down windows & see if
the light stays on. If it does, I'm guessing it will, then switch off
the mains socket at the said PC which is already shut down & watch the
light go off.

If you wait a few seconds & switch the mains plug back on the light
will not light up, meaning the socket is free. When you power your pc
& start windows it will regain that socket, light on.

.
.
I'm unsure what you are adding here. And this is my last reply to this 
thread.
A working switch, even a repeater, will ignore your connection whether 
really on or awaiting wol or s/by until it is up properly.
That will not be the cause of your trouble.  If you were to insert such into 
your little network you'd see that.
I suspect you've either got some sort of invalid tee here, an IP conflict or 
a faulty/non-standard switch hardware or software.

Marge wrote:
> On 11 Jan, 16:51, PeeGee  wrote:
>> Marge wrote:
>>> On 10 Jan, 15:39, "Will"  wrote:
>>> Socket on router is fine, if you have any physical indication on your
>>> router, ie light for each socket. switch on a PC which is connected to
>>> a particular socket & see it light up, then shut down windows & see if
>>> the light stays on. If it does, I'm guessing it will, then switch off
>>> the mains socket at the said PC which is already shut down & watch the
>>> light go off.
>>> If you wait a few seconds & switch the mains plug back on the light
>>> will not light up, meaning the socket is free. When you power your pc
>>> & start windows it will regain that socket, light on.
>> In your case, with your "sharer", that may be true. On my system, as
>> soon as the 5vSBY appears, the router light for that socket comes on -
>> which is what I would expect.
>>
>> --
>> PeeGee
> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> PeeGee? you are usually very helpful but from this post I'm wondering
> if you read the last post at all.

I believe I did :-) However, I assumed you were fully aware of the
difference between 5v and 5vSBY supplies (I do tend to assume, often
wrongly, that people know things I consider *basic* information :-( ).

> 
> Yes! on my system also, when the 5v from the PC appears at the router
> the light for that socket comes on too!! we are the same !!

That's not what I said :-(  When you turn the supply on at the mains
plug, the socket light stays off (5vSBY active, 5v not active), whereas
the light comes on with my system. As I said in a previous post, I have
a second system where the socket light *only* lights when the PC is
powered up.

The 5vSBY is available whenever the power is reaching the PSU and allows
WOL, wake on keyboard, wake on USB, wake on timer etc. The 5v line only
becomes active when the PC is actually powered up.

> 
> its when you shut down windows & the PC effectively is off that the
> socket is still lit up (active) and therefor not useable by any other
> hardware on that socket. Remember I have a splitter so 2 items of
> hardware can share the same socket though not at the same time. but
> the pc does not release the socket when shut down only when all power
> is removed & I believe this is the same for all modern pc's but you
> wouldn't be aware or affected by it unless you had a splitter.
> 
> Its possible I guess that if you had 2 pc's on the splitter that it
> may work ok, the 5v form either overriding the other when needed but
> in the case of the 360 this is not so. I'll have to try that out to
> see.

-- 
PeeGee

"Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
to be removed from a computer easily."
Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)

Marge wrote:
> On 12 Jan, 11:22, PeeGee  wrote:
>> Marge wrote:
>>> On 11 Jan, 16:51, PeeGee  wrote:
>>>> Marge wrote:
>>>>> On 10 Jan, 15:39, "Will"  wrote:
>>>>> Socket on router is fine, if you have any physical indication on your
>>>>> router, ie light for each socket. switch on a PC which is connected to
>>>>> a particular socket & see it light up, then shut down windows & see if
>>>>> the light stays on. If it does, I'm guessing it will, then switch off
>>>>> the mains socket at the said PC which is already shut down & watch the
>>>>> light go off.
>>>>> If you wait a few seconds & switch the mains plug back on the light
>>>>> will not light up, meaning the socket is free. When you power your pc
>>>>> & start windows it will regain that socket, light on.
>>>> In your case, with your "sharer", that may be true. On my system, as
>>>> soon as the 5vSBY appears, the router light for that socket comes on -
>>>> which is what I would expect.
>>>> --
>>>> PeeGee
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> PeeGee? you are usually very helpful but from this post I'm wondering
>>> if you read the last post at all.
>> I believe I did :-) However, I assumed you were fully aware of the
>> difference between 5v and 5vSBY supplies (I do tend to assume, often
>> wrongly, that people know things I consider *basic* information :-( ).
>>
>>
>>
>>> Yes! on my system also, when the 5v from the PC appears at the router
>>> the light for that socket comes on too!! we are the same !!
>> That's not what I said :-(  When you turn the supply on at the mains
>> plug, the socket light stays off (5vSBY active, 5v not active), whereas
>> the light comes on with my system. As I said in a previous post, I have
>> a second system where the socket light *only* lights when the PC is
>> powered up.
>>
>> The 5vSBY is available whenever the power is reaching the PSU and allows
>> WOL, wake on keyboard, wake on USB, wake on timer etc. The 5v line only
>> becomes active when the PC is actually powered up.
>>
>>
>>
>>> its when you shut down windows & the PC effectively is off that the
>>> socket is still lit up (active) and therefor not useable by any other
>>> hardware on that socket. Remember I have a splitter so 2 items of
>>> hardware can share the same socket though not at the same time. but
>>> the pc does not release the socket when shut down only when all power
>>> is removed & I believe this is the same for all modern pc's but you
>>> wouldn't be aware or affected by it unless you had a splitter.
>>> Its possible I guess that if you had 2 pc's on the splitter that it
>>> may work ok, the 5v form either overriding the other when needed but
>>> in the case of the 360 this is not so. I'll have to try that out to
>>> see.
>> --
>> PeeGee
>>
>> "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
>> knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
>> to be removed from a computer easily."
>> Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> OK sorry for upsetting you,I know what as done that but although may
> not be true in your case it unfortunately is in many.
> 
> Right, my small useless uneducated brain says that if in your case,
> YOU have 2 systems with a standby voltage which are effecting socket
> activity differently it could be because 1 has WOL enabled & 1
> doesn't, (this should be the case) maybe not maybe its down to how
> different manufacturers make their products but shouldn't be because
> then the hardware is doing something you didn't ask it to do!!
> 
> Now back to the original posting, could you tell me why, when I have
> WOL disabled do my PC's not release the sockets when shut down, that
> is what I am requesting them to do.
> 
> The mysterious 5vSBY is simply a 5v bypass of the mains switch solely
> for the purpose of WOL, if I set WOL to disabled why is the 5v 5vSBY
> not dropped from the socket on shut down? This is all my problem is &
> it isn't faulty hardware, I have 4 PC's in the home all with different
> onboard LAN or NIC cards which all operate exactly the same.
> 
> No more arguing just answer the question, that's all I came here for.
> I got disgruntled with the other poster because he told me my hardware
> was probably faulty because he didn't read that I said splitter rather
> than switch, I realised after my reply, to his error.
> 
> I know its better not to reply at all than to start an argument but
> I'm human too sometimes. :o(

Simple answers, I hope :-)

1. A NIC is either WOL *capable* (and uses 5vSBY) or not - in my case,
one is and one is not. If you disable WOL in the BIOS, all you are doing
is setting the system to ignore any WOL packets received - the interface
still operates normally.

2. Think of 5v standby (5vSBY) as an independent 5v PSU contained within
the PCs PSU. It operates in the same way as a wallwart.

3. Don't know why the socket is not released - it gives all the symptoms
of a latching circuit. If the connection is "straight through", as you
say, I would expect *all* WOL NICs to light the router light when the
mains supply is on at the wall plug.

4. The 5vSBY is there to allow the PC to be "woken up" without needing
to press the switch on the front of the case. All that switch does is
use the 5vSBY to trigger the full supply.

-- 
PeeGee

"Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
to be removed from a computer easily."
Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)

In article 
news:<3897976d-377a-4fe4-b4d3-6d21e04d17d3@r41g2000prr.googlegroups.com
>, Marge wrote:
> The mysterious 5vSBY is simply a 5v bypass of the mains switch solely
> for the purpose of WOL, if I set WOL to disabled why is the 5v 5vSBY
> not dropped from the socket on shut down?

5vSBY is the "standby" 5V supply. That is, it is a 5V supply that keeps 
some components of your computer powered even when the computer is in 
standby. Standby is the name given to the state that the PC is in when 
it is connected to the mains supply but is shut down, in this state the 
main CPU and memory and the disks and fans of the PC are "off" but some 
circuitry is still "on" and functioning.

The amount of power drawn is very small, but if it bothers you then you 
can turn the PC off at the wall.

The uses of the 5vSBY supply *include* Wake-on-LAN, but also other 
things -- in particular the main "Power On" button on the front of the 
PC uses the 5vSBY power to turn the PC on. 5vSBY may also power the USB 
ports so that various USB devices remain powered when the PC is off 
(useful for battery-powered devices that can charge from USB, for 
example). Some PCs allow some of these (e.g. USB power) to be turned 
off when the PC is in standby, by means of a BIOS setting. Others 
don't.

Turning OFF the Wake-on-LAN function just tells the PC to ignore any 
"wake-up" packets that arrive over the LAN, it should not be expected 
to turn off 5vSBY, and will not even turn the LAN interface off 
completely.

What I think is happening with your network cable splitter is this: The 
"connection" between your router and the PC is maintained by the router 
which stores a table (the "ARP cache table") associating the IP 
addresses of your computers with the hardware MAC addresses of their 
LAN adapters. The router records the MAC address of the PC's LAN 
adapter in this table when it connects to the PC, and doesn't remove 
that entry until the PC is disconnected or completely powered off.

In your setup with a cable splitter connecting a single router port to 
two PCs the router will always see a powered NIC connected to that port 
unless BOTH PCs are powered down (fully, not just in standby) or 
disconnected from it, so it can't tell that you've switched one PC off 
and the other one on. That means that the MAC address of the first PC 
remains in the table, and the router can't talk to the second PC at 
all.

To share a single router port between two PCs in this way you would 
have to either:

- power each PC down completely when it is not in use so that the
  router sees that PC "go away".
- Disconnect the router physically from the splitter while powering
  one PC off and the other on.
- Somehow force the router to refresh its ARP table (this may be
  something you can do by sending it a command from another PC)
  
Does this help?

Cheers,
 Daniel.