My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped 
working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember 
anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4 
years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is 
this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else

Any ideas (i know info is sketchy but havent seen it yet)

TIA

"nnk"  wrote in message news:4af19c13$0$2489$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped working - n lights power 
> anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and 
> new power supply about 4 years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ... 
> Is this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else
>
> Any ideas

One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:

[...]

> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.

Trying to kill a virus perhaps?

Chris

-- 
Remove prejudice to reply.

"Chris Whelan"  wrote in message 
news:LehIm.43025$%%3.21477@newsfe23.ams2...
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.
>
> Trying to kill a virus perhaps?
>
>

my comment to my ex along the same lines elicited a not very nice reply lol

Bitstring <4af19c13$0$2489$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, from the wonderful 
person nnk  said
>My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped
>working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember
>anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4
>years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is
>this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else
>
>Any ideas (i know info is sketchy but havent seen it yet)

Sounds like capacitors, but which ones is hard to diagnose by smell 
alone ...

-- 
GSV   Three Minds in a Can
16,110 Km walked. 2,937 Km PROWs surveyed. 53.1% complete.

nnk wrote:
> My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped 
> working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember 
> anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4 
> years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is 
> this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else
> 
> Any ideas (i know info is sketchy but havent seen it yet)
> 

I'd guess at something blowing or even burning (last time I really 
remember that smell was the electrics in very cheap pair of PC speakers 
melting), but it's hard to do more than guess - I'd say looking at the 
PSU and a once over of the motherboard as you say would be a good start 
point.


-- 
[ste]

In article <jF+ITOC9da8KFAHW@from.is.invalid>, GSV Three Minds in a Can
 writes
>>Any ideas (i know info is sketchy but havent seen it yet)
>
>Sounds like capacitors, but which ones is hard to diagnose by smell 
>alone ...

When mine went once they bulged to a spherical shape instead of being
flat, not that it mattered as replacing them would have been a fiddle,
just got a new MB.

Mike

-- 
Michael Swift           We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.      
Kirkheaton              We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.    
Yorkshire                                       Halvard Lange

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:21:56 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:

>My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped 
>working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember 
>anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4 
>years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is 
>this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else

The smell is certainly distinct, and will be capacitors. More likely
to be mobo than psu (the mobo caps work harder and hotter), but
prepare for either.

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
Women's breasts are like electric train sets. They're meant for 
kids, but usually it's the fathers who wind up playing with them.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:15:14 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
 wrote:

>On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:21:56 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:
>
>>My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped 
>>working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember 
>>anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4 
>>years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is 
>>this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else
>
>The smell is certainly distinct, and will be capacitors. More likely
>to be mobo than psu (the mobo caps work harder and hotter), but
>prepare for either.
>
>	Cheers - Jaimie

As MB caps are attached to large areas of copper you need something
with a bit more power than 11w.

I've just done 3, all had blown the ends open.
-- 
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:10:44 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:

>
>"Chris Whelan"  wrote in message 
>news:LehIm.43025$%%3.21477@newsfe23.ams2...
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.
>>
>> Trying to kill a virus perhaps?
>
>my comment to my ex along the same lines elicited a not very nice reply lol 
>
LOL.

I had a call from my sister in law, "Our gas fire smells of burning
rubber".

Me "Switch it off, wait till it's cool then lift the canopy off. It
will just come off with a tug. Look for something on the fins of the
heat exchanger and fire top."

She repeated this back to me, then a small voice in the background
said "I think a rubber may have fallen in it". My niece knew she was
rumbled.

Me, "Remove the eraser, get a knife and scrape the remains off the
heat exchanger. Put the canopy back on it's spring clips, it will only
smell for a bit as the last bits cook off."
-- 
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Peter Hill  wrote
>On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:10:44 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:
>>"Chris Whelan"  wrote in message 
>>news:LehIm.43025$%%3.21477@newsfe23.ams2...
>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.
>>>
>>> Trying to kill a virus perhaps?
>>
>>my comment to my ex along the same lines elicited a not very nice reply lol 
>>
>LOL.
>
>I had a call from my sister in law, "Our gas fire smells of burning
>rubber".
>
>Me "Switch it off, wait till it's cool then lift the canopy off. It
>will just come off with a tug. Look for something on the fins of the
>heat exchanger and fire top."
>
>She repeated this back to me, then a small voice in the background
>said "I think a rubber may have fallen in it". My niece knew she was
>rumbled.
>
>Me, "Remove the eraser, get a knife and scrape the remains off the
>heat exchanger. Put the canopy back on it's spring clips, it will only
>smell for a bit as the last bits cook off."

Was it er used?
-- 
Roger Hunt

"Roger Hunt"  wrote in message 
news:KvBHeUAOof8KFwBq@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> Peter Hill  wrote
>>On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:10:44 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:
>>>"Chris Whelan"  wrote in message
>>>news:LehIm.43025$%%3.21477@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.
>>>>
>>>> Trying to kill a virus perhaps?
>>>
>>>my comment to my ex along the same lines elicited a not very nice reply 
>>>lol
>>>
>>LOL.
>>
>>I had a call from my sister in law, "Our gas fire smells of burning
>>rubber".
>>
>>Me "Switch it off, wait till it's cool then lift the canopy off. It
>>will just come off with a tug. Look for something on the fins of the
>>heat exchanger and fire top."
>>
>>She repeated this back to me, then a small voice in the background
>>said "I think a rubber may have fallen in it". My niece knew she was
>>rumbled.
>>
>>Me, "Remove the eraser, get a knife and scrape the remains off the
>>heat exchanger. Put the canopy back on it's spring clips, it will only
>>smell for a bit as the last bits cook off."
>
> Was it er used?
> -- 
> Roger Hunt

I`m sure if it had been his sis in law would have told him clearly she could 
smell burning cheese!

duh!

;o)

Jim E  wrote
>"Roger Hunt"  wrote in message 
>news:KvBHeUAOof8KFwBq@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> Peter Hill  wrote
>>>On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:10:44 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:
>>>>"Chris Whelan"  wrote in message
>>>>news:LehIm.43025$%%3.21477@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:23:26 +0000, - wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the kids has poured TCP down the back of the PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to kill a virus perhaps?
>>>>
>>>>my comment to my ex along the same lines elicited a not very nice reply 
>>>>lol
>>>>
>>>LOL.
>>>
>>>I had a call from my sister in law, "Our gas fire smells of burning
>>>rubber".
>>>
>>>Me "Switch it off, wait till it's cool then lift the canopy off. It
>>>will just come off with a tug. Look for something on the fins of the
>>>heat exchanger and fire top."
>>>
>>>She repeated this back to me, then a small voice in the background
>>>said "I think a rubber may have fallen in it". My niece knew she was
>>>rumbled.
>>>
>>>Me, "Remove the eraser, get a knife and scrape the remains off the
>>>heat exchanger. Put the canopy back on it's spring clips, it will only
>>>smell for a bit as the last bits cook off."
>>
>> Was it er used?
>
>I`m sure if it had been his sis in law would have told him clearly she could 
>smell burning cheese!
>duh!

Oh of course silly me.
-- 
Roger Hunt

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:40:18 +0000, Peter Hill
 wrote:

>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:15:14 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:21:56 -0000, "nnk"  wrote:
>>
>>>My ex just rang to say the kids pc (which i built) suddenly stopped 
>>>working - n lights power anything - hbut smell of tcp - cant remember 
>>>anything about it but that it was a gigabyte MB and new power supply about 4 
>>>years agio (kept upgrading) - will be having a look at the weekend ...  Is 
>>>this likely to be mb capacitors or power supply or something else
>>
>>The smell is certainly distinct, and will be capacitors. More likely
>>to be mobo than psu (the mobo caps work harder and hotter), but
>>prepare for either.
>>
>>	Cheers - Jaimie
>
>As MB caps are attached to large areas of copper you need something
>with a bit more power than 11w.

I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
better, a gas iron best.

>I've just done 3, all had blown the ends open.

First snow of the season!

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
>So, what do *you* do for a living?
I sit in a chair pressing small plastic rectangles with my fingers
while peering at many tiny, colored dots.         -- Peter Manders

In article , Jaimie
Vandenbergh  writes

>The smell is certainly distinct, and will be capacitors. More likely
>to be mobo than psu (the mobo caps work harder and hotter), but
>prepare for either.

Don't forget that as the MB caps slowly fail, they place a lot more
strain on the PSU, so the caps in that should be regarded as suspect
too.

-- 
Mike Tomlinson

In article , Jaimie
Vandenbergh  writes

>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>better, a gas iron best.

I use 15w and 50w - the 50w for the pins connected to the ground plane.
You need to get the through-plated holes hot enough to clear first time
with a solder sucker.

>>I've just done 3, all had blown the ends open.

(not your post I know Jaimie - using yours to tag on)

If you only replaced 3, you (Peter) didn't change enough.

-- 
Mike Tomlinson

Mike Tomlinson <mike@none.invalid> wrote
>In article , Jaimie
>Vandenbergh  writes
>
>>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>>better, a gas iron best.
>
>I use 15w and 50w - the 50w for the pins connected to the ground plane.
>You need to get the through-plated holes hot enough to clear first time
>with a solder sucker.
>
I know this is a brutal method, with real danger of shorting other
components connections with solder spatter, but an air duster aerosol
blasts the through holes clean of solder very effectively, first go.
Same with SM components too.
-- 
Roger Hunt

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> 
> Don't forget that as the MB caps slowly fail, they place a lot more
> strain on the PSU, so the caps in that should be regarded as suspect
> too.

This also works the other way around. A PSU that's undervolting a rail 
will often cause bad caps on the board.


-- 
John Jordan

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:03:04 -0000, John Jordan  wrote:

> Mike Tomlinson wrote:
>>  Don't forget that as the MB caps slowly fail, they place a lot more
>> strain on the PSU, so the caps in that should be regarded as suspect
>> too.
>
> This also works the other way around. A PSU that's undervolting a rail  
> will often cause bad caps on the board.
>
>

Caps run at a lower voltage should last longer shouldn't they?

In article <4af30952$0$2536$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, nnk
 writes

>Its an MSI K8T Neo-FSR mother board and jeantech 400w ATX power supply.

the psu is a cheapo.  regard with suspicion.

>  On 
>close examination none of the capacitors appaer 'blown'.

They don't have to be blown, just slightly bulged at the top.  If you
look closely you'll see a "K" stamped into the top.  This is a vent - it
splits open when the cap has well and truly gone, but also makes it
easier to see if the top of the cap has domed.  If it has, it's
knackered (technical term.)

Use your nose to sniff out* where the fishy TCP smell is strongest.

* I originally wrote 'see' there :)

>n desperation I connected th 20pin and 4 pin headers to a microatx power 
>supply (which is all I have - fsp300-60gls) the board powers up every time. 
>But it produces a continuous tone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Usually indicates CPU failure, I'm afraid.  See if taking the memory out
makes the tone change (it should go to regular beeps.)

-- 
Mike Tomlinson

" ><(((°>"  wrote in message 
news:op.u2x8fzybcnngb9@xp64...
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:03:04 -0000, John Jordan  wrote:
>
>> Mike Tomlinson wrote:
>>>  Don't forget that as the MB caps slowly fail, they place a lot more
>>> strain on the PSU, so the caps in that should be regarded as suspect
>>> too.
>>
>> This also works the other way around. A PSU that's undervolting a rail 
>> will often cause bad caps on the board.
>>
>>
>
> Caps run at a lower voltage should last longer shouldn't they?

Not necessarily - an undervolted rail will likely have more ripple
for them to cope with.

-- 
Rob

In message , Jaimie
Vandenbergh  writes
>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:40:18 +0000, Peter Hill
> wrote:

>>As MB caps are attached to large areas of copper you need something
>>with a bit more power than 11w.
>
>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>better, a gas iron best.

 Maplin are selling a variable temperature 50W soldering iron for under
a tenner at the moment, special offer until Xmas. It would be a useful
bit of kit for anyone doing a lot of desoldering of capacitors for
swapouts and then dialled down it will do regular soldering without
destroying the components with excess heat. Part no. N78AR.
-- 
 To reply, my gmail address is nojay1              Robert Sneddon

In message <1PPV0VCFAr8KFwEI@none.invalid>, Mike Tomlinson
<mike@none.invalid> writes
>In article , Jaimie
>Vandenbergh  writes
>
>>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>>better, a gas iron best.
>
>I use 15w and 50w - the 50w for the pins connected to the ground plane.
>You need to get the through-plated holes hot enough to clear first time
>with a solder sucker.

 I tend to use a very small drill bit (1/64" or 0.4mm) in a collet
holder to clear the holes of any remaining solder after pulling devices
like capacitors off boards. The replacement devices go in a lot easier
that way. I just have to be careful not to damage the plating in the
through-vias when I do so.

-- 
 To reply, my gmail address is nojay1              Robert Sneddon

"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@none.invalid> wrote in message 
news:274VJkDbf$8KFwmS@none.invalid...
> In article <4af30952$0$2536$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, nnk
>  writes
>
>>Its an MSI K8T Neo-FSR mother board and jeantech 400w ATX power supply.
>
> the psu is a cheapo.  regard with suspicion.
>
>>  On
>>close examination none of the capacitors appaer 'blown'.
>
> They don't have to be blown, just slightly bulged at the top.  If you
> look closely you'll see a "K" stamped into the top.  This is a vent - it
> splits open when the cap has well and truly gone, but also makes it
> easier to see if the top of the cap has domed.  If it has, it's
> knackered (technical term.)
>
> Use your nose to sniff out* where the fishy TCP smell is strongest.
>
> * I originally wrote 'see' there :)
>
>>n desperation I connected th 20pin and 4 pin headers to a microatx power
>>supply (which is all I have - fsp300-60gls) the board powers up every 
>>time.
>>But it produces a continuous tone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Usually indicates CPU failure, I'm afraid.  See if taking the memory out
> makes the tone change (it should go to regular beeps.)
>
> -- 
 thanks - tone is not from the motherboard - I pulled the sounder/speaker 
connection off .. All the dlink led run normally id ing the cpu, 
initialising the on board devices,  memory etc until it gets to the last one 
and it cant boot up cos there is no boot drive attached  .. ex has bought 
another atx power supply so I will try fitting it and see ..

In article , Robert Sneddon
 writes

>I just have to be careful not to damage the plating in the
>through-vias when I do so.

Indeed. Too risky for ham-fisted old me.  I find that if the solder in
the through-vias is got hot enough and your solder sucker is a decent
one, the holes clear first time.  I pull off the caps and lift the wire
leads out, let the board cool, then use the sucker to clear the vias.

You do have to watch how much heat you apply to the board though.

-- 
(\__/)   
(='.'=)  Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(")  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 00:35:38 +0000, Robert Sneddon
 wrote:

>In message <1PPV0VCFAr8KFwEI@none.invalid>, Mike Tomlinson
><mike@none.invalid> writes
>>In article , Jaimie
>>Vandenbergh  writes
>>
>>>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>>>better, a gas iron best.
>>
>>I use 15w and 50w - the 50w for the pins connected to the ground plane.
>>You need to get the through-plated holes hot enough to clear first time
>>with a solder sucker.
>
> I tend to use a very small drill bit (1/64" or 0.4mm) in a collet
>holder to clear the holes of any remaining solder after pulling devices
>like capacitors off boards. 

Eep. I wouldn't risk that, too much chance of going off-centre and
damaging the interior layer tracks in the motherboard laminate. Well
done you for having the steady hand for it!

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:32:49 -0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh  
 wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 00:35:38 +0000, Robert Sneddon
>  wrote:
>
>> In message <1PPV0VCFAr8KFwEI@none.invalid>, Mike Tomlinson
>> <mike@none.invalid> writes
>>> In article , Jaimie
>>> Vandenbergh  writes
>>>
>>>> I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>>>> better, a gas iron best.
>>>
>>> I use 15w and 50w - the 50w for the pins connected to the ground plane.
>>> You need to get the through-plated holes hot enough to clear first time
>>> with a solder sucker.
>>
>> I tend to use a very small drill bit (1/64" or 0.4mm) in a collet
>> holder to clear the holes of any remaining solder after pulling devices
>> like capacitors off boards.
>
> Eep. I wouldn't risk that, too much chance of going off-centre and
> damaging the interior layer tracks in the motherboard laminate. Well
> done you for having the steady hand for it!
>
> 	Cheers - Jaimie


I also use a small drill hand rotated in a collet chuck for clearing  
solder from PTH's if I struggle with the solder sucker.
Bear in mind that solder is much softer than the PTH walls so effectively  
the drill self guides itself through.

Never had a problem afterwards.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:09:30 -0000, Mike Tomlinson   
wrote:

> In article , Robert Sneddon
>  writes
>
>> I just have to be careful not to damage the plating in the
>> through-vias when I do so.
>
> Indeed. Too risky for ham-fisted old me.  I find that if the solder in
> the through-vias is got hot enough and your solder sucker is a decent
> one, the holes clear first time.  I pull off the caps and lift the wire
> leads out, let the board cool, then use the sucker to clear the vias.
>
> You do have to watch how much heat you apply to the board though.
>

Certainly solder sucker is best and first choice.

In addition to a small drill, another method I've used is to gently push  
in a stainless steel sewing needle.
The molten solder doesn't adhere to the needle and the needle can be  
pulled out as the area cools leaving the hole clear.

As a side note:
When I left school and started my engineering apprenticeship I worked for  
a company that made PCB's, have still got a nice collection of tiny drills  
 from then.

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 00:29:00 +0000, Robert Sneddon wrote:
> In message , Jaimie
> Vandenbergh  writes
>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:40:18 +0000, Peter Hill
>> wrote:
>
>>>As MB caps are attached to large areas of copper you need something
>>>with a bit more power than 11w.
>>
>>I've done them with a 15W iron, *just*. Takes a while. 25W iron is
>>better, a gas iron best.
>
>  Maplin are selling a variable temperature 50W soldering iron for under
> a tenner at the moment, special offer until Xmas. It would be a useful
> bit of kit for anyone doing a lot of desoldering of capacitors for
> swapouts and then dialled down it will do regular soldering without
> destroying the components with excess heat. Part no. N78AR.

Thanks for the tip - I've been meaning to get a spare one of these.
I bought one a couple of years ago (when it was on offer then) and
the weld holding the soldering iron stand to the base unit failed.
I patched that up and then a few months later the temperature
controller went <phut>. Since it was only a triac based dimmer circuit
I tore out the broken one and put a new dimmer cct. in it's place.
However I fully expect more failures from this in the future, so a
backup would be handy.