Hi All,

Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
information - amazing!

Alec

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilts so they don't get flooded.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
> connection, even Plan 3?
> 
AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply 
to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.

John

In news:4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said

>
> OI Kat, what you doing in here?

I had a virgin account once upon a time.:-)


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
Geoff Berrow  said
> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
> GbH contained the following:
>
>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>
>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>
> Just what I was thinking...

You know kats, we wander everywhere.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:4641ca61$0$8757$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net,
GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said
> In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
> kat  wibbled :
>> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
>> bill@hotmail.com  said
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>>> convey information - amazing!
>>>
>>
>> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
>> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
>> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
>> virgin.net news server.
>> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
>> obscure reason.
>
> Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on
> PUSnet, don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe
> thankfully, is not.

There's 8 ntl. groups on NIN.  From that time they escaped into the wilds of 
outer usenet.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 

> AFAIK, yes. There's only one "terms and conditions" which seems to apply
> to all ADSL phone line plans and bundles.
> 
>
Thanks John.


Alec

In news:5aegbnF2o17fvU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:k5m3439usj5r0debhrc4hu6lol27oirbji@4ax.com,
> Geoff Berrow  said
>> Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
>> from GbH contained the following:
>>
>>>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>>>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>>>
>>> OI Kat, what you doing in here?
>>
>> Just what I was thinking...
>
> You know kats, we wander everywhere.

Just be careful where you put that tail!

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  wibbled :
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

wrote in message news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
>
> Alec

Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's 
largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them 
seriously.
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

GbH wrote:
> 

> 
> Where? They don't appear anywhere I cam get to them.
> 

On news.virgin.net. 

If your connection is not via Virgin Media it would suggest that they
are closed groups like the old Virgin Net groups were. 

Alec

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
> 

> Interesting.  They don't show up on Giganews which is one of the world's
> largest newsgroup resources, so perhaps nobody else is taking them
> seriously.
> --

Dave, 

They may be closed groups like the VNet ones were. Interestingly they
seem to be quite active  which I suppose they would be if they are an
amalgam of Virgin, NTL and TeleWest users. A lot of them are obviously
cable customers from the posts.

Alec

bill@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared and
> that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to convey
> information - amazing!
> 
> Alec

I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in 
some of them! - John

John Cletheroe wrote:
> 
> I'm astonished at the number of these groups and the numbers of posts in
> some of them! - John

And a lot of moans about service - no surprise there then! 

One thread I was reading, which appeared to be from cable customers,
seemed to suggest that people who had been abusing the dreaded "fair
usage policy" have been punished by having the speed of their connection
turned down. May have got it wrong but that is what it sounded like.

In the feedback group there even appeared to be some responses from
someone at VirginMedia - amazing!!!

Alec

It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer 
solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I eventually 
discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed capping for 
excessive users.

Worth a look maybe but with so many postings and such a low signal to 
noise ratio (i.e. most posts are rubbish) it takes far too long to scan 
just to find the occasional item of value IMHO.

John

In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> Hi All,
>
> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
> convey information - amazing!
>

The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started in 
February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am surprised 
you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a virgin.net news server.

All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some obscure 
reason.  The BY servers still keep their support groups as the VM 
replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on internal 
virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used the ntl servers, 
but I didn't go looking for such groups.

vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also 
available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they haven't 
yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't exactly 
happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague comments get posted 
in .feedback.


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
John Cletheroe  said
> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> capping for excessive users.
>

Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to 
download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds 
are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't 
abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off 
completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid 
for.

Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most 
for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only 
suffer a 50% cut.

The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the 
total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight 
answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a 
blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd 
apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the 
staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied 
Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total 
chaos.


I recommend avoiding the whole mess!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
> 
> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
> John Cletheroe  said
> > It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
> > solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
> > eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e. speed
> > capping for excessive users.
> >
> 
> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower speeds
> are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the same.  They aren't
> abusing the fair use policy - if they were they would get cut off
> completely.  They are just using for a short period the service they paid
> for.
> 
> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay the most
> for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75% while the rest only
> suffer a 50% cut.
> 
> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied - the
> total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a straight
> answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )  disconnection of a
> blind poster because he couldn't read all posts fast enough to know he'd
> apparently been warned for a few OT posts in a BY support group - even the
> staff are making OT posts btw - there are Rules, but not fairly applied
> Rules.  These groups are retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total
> chaos.
> 
> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!

Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
of use that is.

Alec

In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
bill@hotmail.com  said
> kat wrote:
>>
>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>> John Cletheroe  said
>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>
>>
>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection to
>> download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes - slower
>> speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much the
>> same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were they
>> would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>> period the service they paid for.
>>
>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>
>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>
>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>
> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their lack
> of use that is.
>

Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced with vm 
groups.  But not very well right now!


-- 
kat
     >^..^<

kat wrote:
  > Define excessive.
OK, reword what I said as "usage regarded by Virgin Media as excessive"! :)

On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is 
extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be 
advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that 
40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it 
should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.

I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be 
cabled.

John

In news:5adjdgF2o1jkqU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:463F2FC8.BEBE0612@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just noticed that a whole bunch of Virgin Media groups have appeared
>> and that they actually appear to be using virginmedia.announce to
>> convey information - amazing!
>>
>
> The first of the VM groups - feedback and discussion general started
> in February, the others more recently  but still some weeks ago. I am
> surprised you haven't seen them before, if you regularly use a
> virgin.net news server.
> All the internal ntl groups have gone, apart from test for some
> obscure reason.

Interestingly, or maybe not, the NTL hierarchy is now carried on PUSnet, 
don't think there is any content! VM, however, maybe thankfully, is not.

> The BY servers still keep their support groups as
> the VM replacements haven't yet been set up.  I can't comment on
> internal virgin.net groups - I wasn't aware of any, virgin.net used
> the ntl servers, but I didn't go looking for such groups.
>
> vm.announce is used for nothing beyond the posting if the FAQ - also
> available in vm.faqs - and when they get around to to it which they
> haven't yet, state of the service. "Conveying of information" doesn't
> exactly happen, and certainly doesn't happen in announce.  Vague
> comments get posted in .feedback.



-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In news:5adtjfF2o0s4aU1@mid.individual.net,
kat  wibbled :
> In news:4641BE55.A36E737C@hotmail.com,
> bill@hotmail.com  said
>> kat wrote:
>>>
>>> In news:U6_%h.3842$MH3.1109@newsfe4-win.ntli.net,
>>> John Cletheroe  said
>>>> It's very confusing, they seem to use the word "broadband" to refer
>>>> solely to cable. Also there's much discussion of STM, which I
>>>> eventually discovered means Subscriber Traffic Management, i.e.
>>>> speed capping for excessive users.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Define excessive.  After 4pm until midnight use your BB connection
>>> to download an amount which will take around 20 or 25 minutes -
>>> slower speeds are allowed a lower limit so the times work out much
>>> the same.  They aren't abusing the fair use policy - if they were
>>> they would get cut off completely.  They are just using for a short
>>> period the service they paid for.
>>>
>>> Many of those moaning are objecting to the fact that those who pay
>>> the most for the fastest speeds will find their speed cut by 75%
>>> while the rest only suffer a 50% cut.
>>>
>>> The way this was announced - or not - the way it is being applied -
>>> the total inablity of the staff to answer a straight question wih a
>>> straight answer - the immediate ( within an hour or 2 anyway )
>>> disconnection of a blind poster because he couldn't read all posts
>>> fast enough to know he'd apparently been warned for a few OT posts
>>> in a BY support group - even the staff are making OT posts btw -
>>> there are Rules, but not fairly applied Rules.  These groups are
>>> retromoderated, badly.  It all makes for total chaos.
>>>
>>> I recommend avoiding the whole mess!
>>
>> Thanks, sounds horrible. These new groups probably explane the
>> disappearance of about half of the virgin groups. That, and their
>> lack of use that is.
>>
>
> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!

OI Kat, what you doing in here?

-- 
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

Message-ID: <4641cabc$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from
GbH contained the following:

>> Lack of use isn't the cause, it's just they are all being replaced
>> with vm groups.  But not very well right now!
>
>OI Kat, what you doing in here?

Just what I was thinking...

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

John Cletheroe wrote:

> On ADSL over a normal phone line the Virgin Media download limit is
> extremely generous (40GB a month) but even so the service should not be
> advertised as being unlimited because it very clearly is not. Also, that
> 40GB figure is hidden away deep in the terms and conditions while it
> should be stated right up front in an obvious manner.
> 
Clearly I don't keep in touch. So this 40Gb applies to all phone line
connection, even Plan 3?

> I can't comment on cable, our rural area is highly unlikely to ever be
> cabled.

You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
side trees are still alive.

Alec

wrote in message news:4641DE9C.429F82BA@hotmail.com...
>
> You've no chance of cable. I live close to the center of Southend on Sea
> and we don't have it and are never likely to I'm told. A little
> cable-less desert surrounded by a sea of plenty. At least all the road
> side trees are still alive.

That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to 
install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so 
many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood 
waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to 
move, I suggest you start now   ;o)
-- 
Dave (Sgt. Pepper)       Epsom, England
    Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700
    My photo galleries at  http://www.pbase.com/davecq
    "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" wrote:
 That 'sea of plenty' is the very reason why no company is prepared to
> install cable near the coast Alec.  It makes no economic sense.  In not so
> many years time, Southend on Sea will become Southend Under Sea as the flood
> waters rise and SE England sinks.  If you haven't already made plans to
> move, I suggest you start now   ;o)

No point Dave, with my dickey ticker I'll be long gone before then.

BTW in view of the point you make about flooding it does seem odd that
they are building houses down here like they are going out of fashion -
totally barking as they will all  be underwater in the not to distant
future. As will the Thames Gateway project though I've heard serious
suggestion that the housing there be built on stilt