Hi,

I'm currently being verbally intimidated at work... my manager is putting 
pressure on me to leave even though I've done nothing wrong (I think he 
wants to replace me with another staff member).

If I report the situation it'll be my word against theirs.

I'm having another review meeting this week and I wondered if it was illegal 
for me to tape/record the conversation... not to use in court or anything 
like that, but just so people will believe me.

Cheers!

Debi

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:40:41 +0100, Debi wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm currently being verbally intimidated at work... my manager is putting 
> pressure on me to leave even though I've done nothing wrong (I think he 
> wants to replace me with another staff member).
> 
> If I report the situation it'll be my word against theirs.
> 
> I'm having another review meeting this week and I wondered if it was illegal 
> for me to tape/record the conversation... not to use in court or anything 
> like that, but just so people will believe me.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Debi

Some years ago I held a position that entailed recording certain
meetings at work, I was informed by the legal department that I had to
announce to the people concerned that the meeting was being recorded.
So I would imagine that as long as you informed your manager that you
intended to record the meeting, and as long as he/she agreed then the
recording would be legal in court.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:40:41 +0100, "Debi"  wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm currently being verbally intimidated at work... my manager is putting 
>pressure on me to leave even though I've done nothing wrong (I think he 
>wants to replace me with another staff member).
>
>If I report the situation it'll be my word against theirs.
>
>I'm having another review meeting this week and I wondered if it was illegal 
>for me to tape/record the conversation... not to use in court or anything 
>like that, but just so people will believe me.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Debi 


Debi,

The exact same thing is happening to me and it seems a lot of other
people as well.

This link is American but I know of it happening in the UK too.
http://www.todaysworkplace.org/2009/08/05/workplace-harassement-the-recessions-hidden-byproduct/

I wouldn't recommend recording anything just making lots of notes. You
should also be able to have copies of the notes they have made its
your right. Don't sign anything you don't agree with though. Just say
you're unable to sign as you disagree with it.

If you can try and take in an independent witness with you or fellow
worker or friend at work, even a trade union official etc. I believe
you should be allowed to do this.

I've been through a greivance and appeal process for an untruthful
review, and wouldn't advise going through that either. They will hold
you in contempt and will always back up the management. They will pick
and chooses what parts of the complaint/greivance they wish to
investigate and answer and they will also pick and choose who they
interview. It will usually be the manager you had the complaint
against who will lie through their teeth to save their own skin. 

Even if you had independent witnesses to the truth you are speaking
the chances are they're not going to interview any of them, only the
ones you had the issue against and they will always back up the
management. Once you've been through all that even if the other party
has stated things that are not true which would have been verifiable
and exposed had they asked any other workers there, you wont be able
to do anything because they will tell you that you have no right of
further appeal.

It's a dreadful nightmare situation. I've been through all that and
now the situation is even worse for me. They now have a vendetta
against me for going through the entire greivance process and blunly
speaking the truth and continue to descriminate and bear falsehoods
against me even more so now. It was also a different higher ranking
manager that put me forward to go through the greivance process, it's
not something I ever really wanted to go into. 

They seem to think that because the whitewash of their internal
greivance process was upheld that I was in the wrong. However the
other party was unable to prove numerous things with written paperwork
to back up what they had alleged. There's a number of things they said
that were complete lies but they worded it in a clever way to try and
escape blame. Everything I said and stated was the absolute truth but
they have no interest in that. They don't want to give you a good
review especially if its tied to annual cost-of-living increases for
performance pay. They will do everything they can to get out of paying
more money out to workers and to try and get rid of them by saying
they're not performing especially at the moment in the current
economy. The place I worked even changed the review process for the
entire previous year right before the end of year review was due so
that the markings were different and resulting pay increases for the
different levels were changed so the majroty would get less or nothing
at all.

They will use every tiny little petty thing they can try and think of
to have a go at you.

The only thing I can suggest is to take someone in with you, make a
written note of everything, always ask for specific examples. Seek
independent feedback from other workers try get that in email or
written form.

Consider speaking to solicitor/tribunal if you feel your being
descriminated against or victimised but I wouldn't recommend going
through any internal greivance process at all.

My situation I did have a lot of other workers who would have backed
up what I was saying but even with that they still were unprepared to
interview any of them and try and make it just be about you and nobody
else.

I'm beginning to wonder whether it would have just been better all
along to just accept and agree with everything they have said despite
it being completely false and a pack of lies, to just put up with it
and continue trying my hardest.

Sorry if this is not too encouraging and I hope it goes better for you
than it has done for me so far  :(

John

Thanks for your response John and I'm sorry to hear about the way you've 
been treated.

Looks like I'm in for a long hard fight!

Debi :-)


"John"  wrote in message 
news:pudu75t4ckqn3igeqqi0qb2heli9396pfp@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:40:41 +0100, "Debi"  wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently being verbally intimidated at work... my manager is putting
>>pressure on me to leave even though I've done nothing wrong (I think he
>>wants to replace me with another staff member).
>>
>>If I report the situation it'll be my word against theirs.
>>
>>I'm having another review meeting this week and I wondered if it was 
>>illegal
>>for me to tape/record the conversation... not to use in court or anything
>>like that, but just so people will believe me.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>
>>Debi
>
>
> Debi,
>
> The exact same thing is happening to me and it seems a lot of other
> people as well.
>
> This link is American but I know of it happening in the UK too.
> http://www.todaysworkplace.org/2009/08/05/workplace-harassement-the-recessions-hidden-byproduct/
>
> I wouldn't recommend recording anything just making lots of notes. You
> should also be able to have copies of the notes they have made its
> your right. Don't sign anything you don't agree with though. Just say
> you're unable to sign as you disagree with it.
>
> If you can try and take in an independent witness with you or fellow
> worker or friend at work, even a trade union official etc. I believe
> you should be allowed to do this.
>
> I've been through a greivance and appeal process for an untruthful
> review, and wouldn't advise going through that either. They will hold
> you in contempt and will always back up the management. They will pick
> and chooses what parts of the complaint/greivance they wish to
> investigate and answer and they will also pick and choose who they
> interview. It will usually be the manager you had the complaint
> against who will lie through their teeth to save their own skin.
>
> Even if you had independent witnesses to the truth you are speaking
> the chances are they're not going to interview any of them, only the
> ones you had the issue against and they will always back up the
> management. Once you've been through all that even if the other party
> has stated things that are not true which would have been verifiable
> and exposed had they asked any other workers there, you wont be able
> to do anything because they will tell you that you have no right of
> further appeal.
>
> It's a dreadful nightmare situation. I've been through all that and
> now the situation is even worse for me. They now have a vendetta
> against me for going through the entire greivance process and blunly
> speaking the truth and continue to descriminate and bear falsehoods
> against me even more so now. It was also a different higher ranking
> manager that put me forward to go through the greivance process, it's
> not something I ever really wanted to go into.
>
> They seem to think that because the whitewash of their internal
> greivance process was upheld that I was in the wrong. However the
> other party was unable to prove numerous things with written paperwork
> to back up what they had alleged. There's a number of things they said
> that were complete lies but they worded it in a clever way to try and
> escape blame. Everything I said and stated was the absolute truth but
> they have no interest in that. They don't want to give you a good
> review especially if its tied to annual cost-of-living increases for
> performance pay. They will do everything they can to get out of paying
> more money out to workers and to try and get rid of them by saying
> they're not performing especially at the moment in the current
> economy. The place I worked even changed the review process for the
> entire previous year right before the end of year review was due so
> that the markings were different and resulting pay increases for the
> different levels were changed so the majroty would get less or nothing
> at all.
>
> They will use every tiny little petty thing they can try and think of
> to have a go at you.
>
> The only thing I can suggest is to take someone in with you, make a
> written note of everything, always ask for specific examples. Seek
> independent feedback from other workers try get that in email or
> written form.
>
> Consider speaking to solicitor/tribunal if you feel your being
> descriminated against or victimised but I wouldn't recommend going
> through any internal greivance process at all.
>
> My situation I did have a lot of other workers who would have backed
> up what I was saying but even with that they still were unprepared to
> interview any of them and try and make it just be about you and nobody
> else.
>
> I'm beginning to wonder whether it would have just been better all
> along to just accept and agree with everything they have said despite
> it being completely false and a pack of lies, to just put up with it
> and continue trying my hardest.
>
> Sorry if this is not too encouraging and I hope it goes better for you
> than it has done for me so far  :(
>
> John
>
>

> I've been through a greivance and appeal process for an untruthful
> review, and wouldn't advise going through that either. They will hold
> you in contempt and will always back up the management. They will pick
> and chooses what parts of the complaint/greivance they wish to
> investigate and answer and they will also pick and choose who they
> interview. It will usually be the manager you had the complaint
> against who will lie through their teeth to save their own skin.

Hi, I went through EXACTLY the same thing and got treated in exactly the 
same way. Reading your posting is almost like reading a review of my own 
experiences, esp picking and choosing what they investigate and ignore, 
who they speak to, and ignoring conflicting lies from managers above you.

> It's a dreadful nightmare situation. I've been through all that and
> now the situation is even worse for me. They now have a vendetta
> against me for going through the entire greivance process and blunly
> speaking the truth and continue to descriminate and bear falsehoods
> against me even more so now. It was also a different higher ranking
> manager that put me forward to go through the greivance process, it's
> not something I ever really wanted to go into. 

Same here. Until I resigned (yep, sorry to say they beat me, I'm now 
working elsewhere) the people my grievance was against attempted to 
bully me and make work uncomfortable almost every day. Your choice of 
word "vendetta" is perfect because that's exactly what it is.

> They will use every tiny little petty thing they can try and think of
> to have a go at you.

Did we work at the same place? :-)

> I'm beginning to wonder whether it would have just been better all
> along to just accept and agree with everything they have said despite
> it being completely false and a pack of lies, to just put up with it
> and continue trying my hardest.

Seriously, you did the right thing. I wish the whole situation never 
happened, but it's like waking up and finding a burglar in your home... 
you're in an awful situation but it's completely someone else's fault 
and you don't deserve to be in it.

Whatever the outcome, they were wrong and you stood up for yourself - 
most people won't do that. And trust me, mud sticks. HR blindly side 
with the manager but the manager will always come out looking bad - 
hence the anger and vendetta.

Hope things get better,

Richard.