A yob who's been harassing me over a very long period is soon to
appear in the youth court, and of course I'm being asked to give
evidence.

I've had to give quite a witness few statements about him, spread over
a number of months, and although everything I said in those statements
was as accurate as I could make it, I can't remember it very well now,
so the defence might make mincemeat of me.

Because of this, I recently asked this newsgroup if I could have
copies of those statements ahead of the trial itself ("can I ask for
copies of my own witness statements?" posted on November 9th).

The general opinion of the replies was 'of course', and 'well you can
bet your life that the yob and his brief will have copies of your
statements so I don't see why not'.

And so today I 'phoned the Southern Witness Care Unit, the body that
had sent me details of my upcoming court appearance, and asked if they
could send me copies.

I got a flat refusal. They said I'd be welcome to come to the court on
the day of the trial, half an hour or an hour before it was due to
start, and read them then. But I wasn't allowed to see them before the
day of the trial.

I asked why and was told "It's a security matter. We can't post off
copies of witness statements in case they get into the wrong hands".

I said "Fair enough - I'll come and collect them in person".

To that I was told "No, you can't do that. We can't start pulling out
statements from files and copying them - if we did that for everyone
it'd be pandemonium."

I said "OK, if you don't want to make copies, can I come in and read
the statements a few days ahead of the trial?"

I got "No - only on the day of the trial".

I pointed out that the defendant was allowed my statements ahead of
the trial, so why wasn't I? I was told "That's not true - it's the
defendant's solicitor who's allowed copies of your statements, not the
defendant".

I pressed her, saying "If the defendant asked his solicitor if he
could see those copies, would the solicitor be allowed to show them to
him, ahead of the day of the trial?"

To that I got "Er...well, yes, I suppose so."

Then I said "So, to clarify: I, the victim of the crime, am not
allowed to see my statements ahead of the trial date, but the
defendant is". To this she reverted to "No, it's the solicitor who's
given the copies..." I realised we were going round in circles, so I
hung up, totally disgusted.

I'd be grateful for any advice people here can give me. This yob and
his family are very intimidating people, and because it's a youth
court I can't have anyone in the room for moral support. This all adds
up to me probably being a nervous wreck on the morning I turn up at
court -hardly a suitable frame of mind in which to read my statements,
refresh my memory of what happened on several separate occasions
spread over many months, and get that information to stick securely
enough for me to withstand cross-examination without getting mixed up.

I honestly don't think it's too much to ask to have the opportunity of
reading my statements in my own home, in a relaxed atmosphere.

So, any comments and advice would be very welcome. And if anyone can
point out a particular law which either entitles me to copies of my
statements, or disallows this, that would be especially useful, since
then I'd know exactly where I stood.

wrote in message 
news:1194976380.755970.230020@v65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>A yob who's been harassing me over a very long period is soon to
> appear in the youth court, and of course I'm being asked to give
> evidence.
>
> I've had to give quite a witness few statements about him, spread over
> a number of months, and although everything I said in those statements
> was as accurate as I could make it, I can't remember it very well now,
> so the defence might make mincemeat of me.
>
> Because of this, I recently asked this newsgroup if I could have
> copies of those statements ahead of the trial itself ("can I ask for
> copies of my own witness statements?" posted on November 9th).
>
> The general opinion of the replies was 'of course', and 'well you can
> bet your life that the yob and his brief will have copies of your
> statements so I don't see why not'.
>
> And so today I 'phoned the Southern Witness Care Unit, the body that
> had sent me details of my upcoming court appearance, and asked if they
> could send me copies.
>
> I got a flat refusal. They said I'd be welcome to come to the court on
> the day of the trial, half an hour or an hour before it was due to
> start, and read them then. But I wasn't allowed to see them before the
> day of the trial.
>
> I asked why and was told "It's a security matter. We can't post off
> copies of witness statements in case they get into the wrong hands".
>
> I said "Fair enough - I'll come and collect them in person".
>
> To that I was told "No, you can't do that. We can't start pulling out
> statements from files and copying them - if we did that for everyone
> it'd be pandemonium."
>
> I said "OK, if you don't want to make copies, can I come in and read
> the statements a few days ahead of the trial?"
>
> I got "No - only on the day of the trial".
>
> I pointed out that the defendant was allowed my statements ahead of
> the trial, so why wasn't I? I was told "That's not true - it's the
> defendant's solicitor who's allowed copies of your statements, not the
> defendant".
>
> I pressed her, saying "If the defendant asked his solicitor if he
> could see those copies, would the solicitor be allowed to show them to
> him, ahead of the day of the trial?"
>
> To that I got "Er...well, yes, I suppose so."
>
> Then I said "So, to clarify: I, the victim of the crime, am not
> allowed to see my statements ahead of the trial date, but the
> defendant is". To this she reverted to "No, it's the solicitor who's
> given the copies..." I realised we were going round in circles, so I
> hung up, totally disgusted.
>
> I'd be grateful for any advice people here can give me. This yob and
> his family are very intimidating people, and because it's a youth
> court I can't have anyone in the room for moral support. This all adds
> up to me probably being a nervous wreck on the morning I turn up at
> court -hardly a suitable frame of mind in which to read my statements,
> refresh my memory of what happened on several separate occasions
> spread over many months, and get that information to stick securely
> enough for me to withstand cross-examination without getting mixed up.
>
> I honestly don't think it's too much to ask to have the opportunity of
> reading my statements in my own home, in a relaxed atmosphere.
>
> So, any comments and advice would be very welcome. And if anyone can
> point out a particular law which either entitles me to copies of my
> statements, or disallows this, that would be especially useful, since
> then I'd know exactly where I stood.

Can't you speak to the police officer who investigated the case or his 
manager?

If that doesn't have the desired effect, do letters of complaint all round. 
Say that it is deplorable that you were not supplied with copies of your 
statements at the time, and that you are being deprived of the opportunity 
to check your statement for accuracy.  Say that you will bring this to the 
attention of the magistrates and the judge at the appropriate time.

I'm not at all sure that there is a rule requiring them to give you a copy 
of your statement, but it is both courteous and sensible - after all, the 
prosecution will want you to give a consistent account, not be surprised by 
questions that are put to you. If they make a habit of not giving copies of 
witness statements to witnesses, maybe you could be instrumental in bringing 
about a national change of policy. And maybe, who knows, that could lead to 
more successful prosecutions and fewer abortive or unsuccessful 
prosecutions.

Well you have manage to ascertain that you are allowed to see them
..theres nothing in law to stop you seeing them ..agreed !

So now its simply a case of getting past the monkey that is too
busy to let you get at em , personally i would turn up on their doorstep
ask politely and then be persistant.

If you get a continual NO , pull out a notebook , write times , dates
and names and ask to see next level of management .

You are of course correct its not morally right you dont get time to
properly inspect your statements , and a polite explanation of this
explaing thet your very nervous about upcoming case i am sure
will get you past any rottweiler on reception .

Just be persistant and polite and you will obtain what is rightfully
yours


 wrote in message
news:1194976380.755970.230020@v65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> A yob who's been harassing me over a very long period is soon to
> appear in the youth court, and of course I'm being asked to give
> evidence.
>
> I've had to give quite a witness few statements about him, spread over
> a number of months, and although everything I said in those statements
> was as accurate as I could make it, I can't remember it very well now,
> so the defence might make mincemeat of me.
>
> Because of this, I recently asked this newsgroup if I could have
> copies of those statements ahead of the trial itself ("can I ask for
> copies of my own witness statements?" posted on November 9th).
>
> The general opinion of the replies was 'of course', and 'well you can
> bet your life that the yob and his brief will have copies of your
> statements so I don't see why not'.
>
> And so today I 'phoned the Southern Witness Care Unit, the body that
> had sent me details of my upcoming court appearance, and asked if they
> could send me copies.
>
> I got a flat refusal. They said I'd be welcome to come to the court on
> the day of the trial, half an hour or an hour before it was due to
> start, and read them then. But I wasn't allowed to see them before the
> day of the trial.
>
> I asked why and was told "It's a security matter. We can't post off
> copies of witness statements in case they get into the wrong hands".
>
> I said "Fair enough - I'll come and collect them in person".
>
> To that I was told "No, you can't do that. We can't start pulling out
> statements from files and copying them - if we did that for everyone
> it'd be pandemonium."
>
> I said "OK, if you don't want to make copies, can I come in and read
> the statements a few days ahead of the trial?"
>
> I got "No - only on the day of the trial".
>
> I pointed out that the defendant was allowed my statements ahead of
> the trial, so why wasn't I? I was told "That's not true - it's the
> defendant's solicitor who's allowed copies of your statements, not the
> defendant".
>
> I pressed her, saying "If the defendant asked his solicitor if he
> could see those copies, would the solicitor be allowed to show them to
> him, ahead of the day of the trial?"
>
> To that I got "Er...well, yes, I suppose so."
>
> Then I said "So, to clarify: I, the victim of the crime, am not
> allowed to see my statements ahead of the trial date, but the
> defendant is". To this she reverted to "No, it's the solicitor who's
> given the copies..." I realised we were going round in circles, so I
> hung up, totally disgusted.
>
> I'd be grateful for any advice people here can give me. This yob and
> his family are very intimidating people, and because it's a youth
> court I can't have anyone in the room for moral support. This all adds
> up to me probably being a nervous wreck on the morning I turn up at
> court -hardly a suitable frame of mind in which to read my statements,
> refresh my memory of what happened on several separate occasions
> spread over many months, and get that information to stick securely
> enough for me to withstand cross-examination without getting mixed up.
>
> I honestly don't think it's too much to ask to have the opportunity of
> reading my statements in my own home, in a relaxed atmosphere.
>
> So, any comments and advice would be very welcome. And if anyone can
> point out a particular law which either entitles me to copies of my
> statements, or disallows this, that would be especially useful, since
> then I'd know exactly where I stood.
>

The Todal wrote:
>  wrote in message 
> news:1194976380.755970.230020@v65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> A yob who's been harassing me over a very long period is soon to
>> appear in the youth court, and of course I'm being asked to give
>> evidence.
>>
>> I've had to give quite a witness few statements about him, spread over
>> a number of months, and although everything I said in those statements
>> was as accurate as I could make it, I can't remember it very well now,
>> so the defence might make mincemeat of me.
>>
>> Because of this, I recently asked this newsgroup if I could have
>> copies of those statements ahead of the trial itself ("can I ask for
>> copies of my own witness statements?" posted on November 9th).
>>
>> The general opinion of the replies was 'of course', and 'well you can
>> bet your life that the yob and his brief will have copies of your
>> statements so I don't see why not'.
>>
>> And so today I 'phoned the Southern Witness Care Unit, the body that
>> had sent me details of my upcoming court appearance, and asked if they
>> could send me copies.
>>
>> I got a flat refusal. They said I'd be welcome to come to the court on
>> the day of the trial, half an hour or an hour before it was due to
>> start, and read them then. But I wasn't allowed to see them before the
>> day of the trial.
>>
>> I asked why and was told "It's a security matter. We can't post off
>> copies of witness statements in case they get into the wrong hands".
>>
>> I said "Fair enough - I'll come and collect them in person".
>>
>> To that I was told "No, you can't do that. We can't start pulling out
>> statements from files and copying them - if we did that for everyone
>> it'd be pandemonium."
>>
>> I said "OK, if you don't want to make copies, can I come in and read
>> the statements a few days ahead of the trial?"
>>
>> I got "No - only on the day of the trial".
>>
>> I pointed out that the defendant was allowed my statements ahead of
>> the trial, so why wasn't I? I was told "That's not true - it's the
>> defendant's solicitor who's allowed copies of your statements, not the
>> defendant".
>>
>> I pressed her, saying "If the defendant asked his solicitor if he
>> could see those copies, would the solicitor be allowed to show them to
>> him, ahead of the day of the trial?"
>>
>> To that I got "Er...well, yes, I suppose so."
>>
>> Then I said "So, to clarify: I, the victim of the crime, am not
>> allowed to see my statements ahead of the trial date, but the
>> defendant is". To this she reverted to "No, it's the solicitor who's
>> given the copies..." I realised we were going round in circles, so I
>> hung up, totally disgusted.
>>
>> I'd be grateful for any advice people here can give me. This yob and
>> his family are very intimidating people, and because it's a youth
>> court I can't have anyone in the room for moral support. This all adds
>> up to me probably being a nervous wreck on the morning I turn up at
>> court -hardly a suitable frame of mind in which to read my statements,
>> refresh my memory of what happened on several separate occasions
>> spread over many months, and get that information to stick securely
>> enough for me to withstand cross-examination without getting mixed up.
>>
>> I honestly don't think it's too much to ask to have the opportunity of
>> reading my statements in my own home, in a relaxed atmosphere.
>>
>> So, any comments and advice would be very welcome. And if anyone can
>> point out a particular law which either entitles me to copies of my
>> statements, or disallows this, that would be especially useful, since
>> then I'd know exactly where I stood.
> 
> Can't you speak to the police officer who investigated the case or his 
> manager?
> 
> If that doesn't have the desired effect, do letters of complaint all round. 
> Say that it is deplorable that you were not supplied with copies of your 
> statements at the time, and that you are being deprived of the opportunity 
> to check your statement for accuracy.  Say that you will bring this to the 
> attention of the magistrates and the judge at the appropriate time.
> 
> I'm not at all sure that there is a rule requiring them to give you a copy 
> of your statement, but it is both courteous and sensible - after all, the 
> prosecution will want you to give a consistent account, not be surprised by 
> questions that are put to you. If they make a habit of not giving copies of 
> witness statements to witnesses, maybe you could be instrumental in bringing 
> about a national change of policy. And maybe, who knows, that could lead to 
> more successful prosecutions and fewer abortive or unsuccessful 
> prosecutions.
> 
> 
> 

It would certainly make more sense if a witness statement could be 
provided to the witness down the line and upon request. The witness may 
have been in a state of shock when the statement was given and may not 
even recall what he / she said.

Specifically I'm thinking about a rape victim, but it could be applied 
to any other crime - if someone is in a state of shock at what has 
happened they may not remember all the facts they reported a few months 
down the road.

-- 
Robbie

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:53:00 -0800, pete611107@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

>And so today I 'phoned the Southern Witness Care Unit, the body that
>had sent me details of my upcoming court appearance, and asked if they
>could send me copies.
>
>I got a flat refusal. They said I'd be welcome to come to the court on
>the day of the trial, half an hour or an hour before it was due to
>start, and read them then. But I wasn't allowed to see them before the
>day of the trial.

DPA?

Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'

It's a non-issue. Witnesses are given ample opportunity to read their 
ststements before going into court. That way they are 'refreshing their 
memory'. If they spent a long time mugging up on the detail the 
cross-examiner would challenge them on the grounds that they were trying to 
get their story straight.

"Bystander"  wrote in message 
news:ou2dneZtYeNtJqfanZ2dnUVZ8tWvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> It's a non-issue. Witnesses are given ample opportunity to read their 
> ststements before going into court. That way they are 'refreshing their 
> memory'. If they spent a long time mugging up on the detail the 
> cross-examiner would challenge them on the grounds that they were trying 
> to get their story straight.

In all civil cases, witnesses are given a copy of their statement to keep. 
The lawyers generally speak to the witnesses prior to trial and ask them if 
they are happy with the statement and whether there is anything they want to 
change or elaborate upon. This is considered absolutely normal.

It seems that in criminal cases, then, the barrister might say "oh, so you 
were given a copy of your statement, eh? That must mean that it was a pack 
of lies".

So it does seem, then, that the system is in need of reform and that perhaps 
the prosecution needs to display better manners in its treatment of its 
witnesses.