Hello, any advice with the following very gratefully recieved.
A family from Africa who I know have a 16 year old daughter, who is
being abused at home. The mother has indefinate right to stay in the
UK. Does the daughter have any right to protection from the State, and
if so, what help can she get?
Thanks 

Tony

wrote in message 
news:vqa9h39024tvkhn6mm9kfdl75afui3cbtm@4ax.com...
> Hello, any advice with the following very gratefully recieved.
> A family from Africa who I know have a 16 year old daughter, who is
> being abused at home. The mother has indefinate right to stay in the
> UK. Does the daughter have any right to protection from the State, and
> if so, what help can she get?
>

If your question is about immigration, then I can't give you a definite 
answer on this one (sorry) - if the mother was an EU citizen, then the child 
definitely has the right to stay in the UK under the various Treaties. 
However in this case, am unsure; some questions would be:

- who has custody of the child?
- where is the child's habitual place of residence?
- is the child currently in the UK?

However, if I am assuming (please clarify) that the child lives with the 
mother and the mother, or a person associated with the mother (boyfriend, 
husband) is abusing the child, then the criminal law operates and the child 
has exactly the same rights and protections as a UK or EU national.  If 
she's 16, and presumably speaks English, then she should go to the police.

Who cares what the legal status is? Report it to Social Services 
(preferabley with the girls consent) and let them figure it out.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 03:05:36 +0100, "Traveller"
 wrote:

> wrote in message 
>news:vqa9h39024tvkhn6mm9kfdl75afui3cbtm@4ax.com...
>> Hello, any advice with the following very gratefully recieved.
>> A family from Africa who I know have a 16 year old daughter, who is
>> being abused at home. The mother has indefinate right to stay in the
>> UK. Does the daughter have any right to protection from the State, and
>> if so, what help can she get?
>>
>

Thanks for your reply

>If your question is about immigration, then I can't give you a definite 
>answer on this one (sorry) - if the mother was an EU citizen, then the child 
>definitely has the right to stay in the UK under the various Treaties. 
>However in this case, am unsure; some questions would be:
>
>- who has custody of the child?

The Mother

>- where is the child's habitual place of residence?

With the Mother, in a squat

>- is the child currently in the UK?

Yes

>
>However, if I am assuming (please clarify) that the child lives with the 
>mother and the mother, or a person associated with the mother (boyfriend, 
>husband) is abusing the child, then the criminal law operates and the child 
>has exactly the same rights and protections as a UK or EU national.  If 
>she's 16, and presumably speaks English, then she should go to the police. 

English is her first (and only) language. 
With respect, I`m not sure that "should" is appropriate here. The last
time I saw her, a bright, happy, kind teenager has been transformed
into a traumatised, seriously depressed, and terrified girl, who just
sits and stares. The thought of any harm coming to her mother is the
one thing guarenteed to make sure she *dosn`t* seek help. Family
loyalty is extremely strong, and instead she is internalising, and
blaming herself. 
My question is really with regards to the consequences of any action
that I myself may take, or convince her to take. My interest is in
helping the girl, not punishing the mother (mostly because the latter
would preclude the former).
So, firstly, would she have the legal right to remain in the UK,
without her mother, or would she be shipped out at the conveniance of
Immigration Control, If she has this right, what help could she get
from i.e. Social Services, housing, and income support?
My understanding is if she were a UK national, in identical
circumstances, she would b entitled to protection, and help, from the
affore-mentioned agencies, ie a bedsit and enough money to eat and not
be cold. 
But what would happen to her?

Tony

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:19:36 +0100, "CJM"
 wrote:

>Who cares what the legal status is? Report it to Social Services 
>(preferabley with the girls consent) and let them figure it out. 
>

Thanks for your reply. Please see my reply to Traveller.

wrote in message 
news:gcrbh3lpedpfsuafu7dhi7bm0092qqp00q@4ax.com...

> Thanks for your reply

You're welcome.   Thanks for posting back and providing more info - so many 
don't!


>>However, if I am assuming (please clarify) that the child lives with the
>>mother and the mother, or a person associated with the mother (boyfriend,
>>husband) is abusing the child, then the criminal law operates and the 
>>child
>>has exactly the same rights and protections as a UK or EU national.  If
>>she's 16, and presumably speaks English, then she should go to the police.
>
> English is her first (and only) language.
> With respect, I`m not sure that "should" is appropriate here. The last
> time I saw her, a bright, happy, kind teenager has been transformed
> into a traumatised, seriously depressed, and terrified girl, who just
> sits and stares. The thought of any harm coming to her mother is the
> one thing guarenteed to make sure she *dosn`t* seek help. Family
> loyalty is extremely strong, and instead she is internalising, and
> blaming herself.

OK, I'm with you.  Can I assume that it *is* the mother who is doing the 
abuse then?

> My question is really with regards to the consequences of any action
> that I myself may take, or convince her to take. My interest is in
> helping the girl, not punishing the mother (mostly because the latter
> would preclude the former).

I understand.  However, if the mother is perpetrating the abuse then the 
options as I see them are:

1.    Attempt to resolve the matter through a non-legal, non-official 
route - family counselling perhaps, there are charities that will help you 
without involving social workers.   If the difficulties can be sorted that 
way, then the law doesn't even come into it.  I believe that this is the 
option that should be tried - and exhausted - first before looking at any 
"official" solutions.

2.    The girl could, if she had her own resources, move out of the mother's 
home [assuming this would help the abuse problem].  At 16, she is not bound 
by law to stay with an adult and is free to live independently if she wishes 
(and has the means to do so).

3.    If neither of the first 2 work out, and it is imperative that the girl 
be protected from further abuse, then social workers and the police will 
have to be involved.

> So, firstly, would she have the legal right to remain in the UK,
> without her mother, or would she be shipped out at the conveniance of
> Immigration Control, If she has this right, what help could she get
> from i.e. Social Services, housing, and income support?

If the mother has indefinite leave to remain, then the sanction of 
deportation of the mother is unlikely to be the first remedy under the law. 
However, it begs the question - what is the *daughter's* immigration 
status - she presumably has a passport, if she wasn't born in the UK - what 
is marked thereon?

> My understanding is if she were a UK national, in identical
> circumstances, she would b entitled to protection, and help, from the
> affore-mentioned agencies, ie a bedsit and enough money to eat and not
> be cold.
> But what would happen to her?
>

If the daughter is legally in the UK then I believe she has the same rights 
and protections.  However, I should start by making confidential enquiries 
of the relevant social services departments to determine what she is 
entitled to if moving out is the path of choice.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:44:15 +0100, "Traveller"
 wrote:

Thanks for this reply, and sorry about delay, computer crash meant I
was unable to get on line all week.
I`ll do what you suggest and contact Social Services.

Best wishes

> wrote in message 
>news:gcrbh3lpedpfsuafu7dhi7bm0092qqp00q@4ax.com...
>
>> Thanks for your reply
>
>You're welcome.   Thanks for posting back and providing more info - so many 
>don't!
>
>
>>>However, if I am assuming (please clarify) that the child lives with the
>>>mother and the mother, or a person associated with the mother (boyfriend,
>>>husband) is abusing the child, then the criminal law operates and the 
>>>child
>>>has exactly the same rights and protections as a UK or EU national.  If
>>>she's 16, and presumably speaks English, then she should go to the police.
>>
>> English is her first (and only) language.
>> With respect, I`m not sure that "should" is appropriate here. The last
>> time I saw her, a bright, happy, kind teenager has been transformed
>> into a traumatised, seriously depressed, and terrified girl, who just
>> sits and stares. The thought of any harm coming to her mother is the
>> one thing guarenteed to make sure she *dosn`t* seek help. Family
>> loyalty is extremely strong, and instead she is internalising, and
>> blaming herself.
>
>OK, I'm with you.  Can I assume that it *is* the mother who is doing the 
>abuse then?
>
>> My question is really with regards to the consequences of any action
>> that I myself may take, or convince her to take. My interest is in
>> helping the girl, not punishing the mother (mostly because the latter
>> would preclude the former).
>
>I understand.  However, if the mother is perpetrating the abuse then the 
>options as I see them are:
>
>1.    Attempt to resolve the matter through a non-legal, non-official 
>route - family counselling perhaps, there are charities that will help you 
>without involving social workers.   If the difficulties can be sorted that 
>way, then the law doesn't even come into it.  I believe that this is the 
>option that should be tried - and exhausted - first before looking at any 
>"official" solutions.
>
>2.    The girl could, if she had her own resources, move out of the mother's 
>home [assuming this would help the abuse problem].  At 16, she is not bound 
>by law to stay with an adult and is free to live independently if she wishes 
>(and has the means to do so).
>
>3.    If neither of the first 2 work out, and it is imperative that the girl 
>be protected from further abuse, then social workers and the police will 
>have to be involved.
>
>> So, firstly, would she have the legal right to remain in the UK,
>> without her mother, or would she be shipped out at the conveniance of
>> Immigration Control, If she has this right, what help could she get
>> from i.e. Social Services, housing, and income support?
>
>If the mother has indefinite leave to remain, then the sanction of 
>deportation of the mother is unlikely to be the first remedy under the law. 
>However, it begs the question - what is the *daughter's* immigration 
>status - she presumably has a passport, if she wasn't born in the UK - what 
>is marked thereon?
>
>> My understanding is if she were a UK national, in identical
>> circumstances, she would b entitled to protection, and help, from the
>> affore-mentioned agencies, ie a bedsit and enough money to eat and not
>> be cold.
>> But what would happen to her?
>>
>
>If the daughter is legally in the UK then I believe she has the same rights 
>and protections.  However, I should start by making confidential enquiries 
>of the relevant social services departments to determine what she is 
>entitled to if moving out is the path of choice.