Just found this group, so Helloooo!

First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light comes on, 
but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?

Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it should be 
idling, but only if the car is moving.
If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing the 
accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however, if I am moving 
(even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm ish) then fall once the car 
has stopped.
I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic moved, 
just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite the fact I didn't 
touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is this a common fault too!?

Thanks for any advise!

Sparks...

"Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...

> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>
> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light comes
on,
> but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
>
> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it should be
> idling, but only if the car is moving.
> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing the
> accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however, if I am
moving
> (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm ish) then fall once the
car
> has stopped.
> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic moved,
> just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite the fact I
didn't
> touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is this a common fault too!?
>


This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact virtually all
fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast in neutral or clutch
down.

Tim..

Tim.. wrote:

> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>>
>> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light
>> comes on, but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
>>
>> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it
>> should be idling, but only if the car is moving.
>> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing
>> the accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however, if
>> I am moving (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm ish)
>> then fall once the car has stopped.
>> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic
>> moved, just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite the
>> fact I didn't touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is this a
>> common fault too!?
>>
>
> This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact virtually
> all fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast in neutral or
> clutch down.


No way this is normal!

If the car is idling, then I roll the car at even <5mph, the revs can go up 
to 2500 rpm sometimes all by it's self, it sounds stupid!
I haven't heard another car do this, My mates X reg doesn't do it either, 
and my car hasn't been doing it for that long (a few months)

Say I am driving along the road, if I stay in 4th, and gradually slow down 
(I mean really slow breaking), then throw the clutch at the last second (as 
in just before it is about to stall! it still does it.
If I go through the gears, only throwing the clutch and moving the N when I 
am going really really slowly, it still does it.
People look at me funny if I stop at a zebra, because they think I am 
revving the engine!

Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all!

Sparks...

Sparks wrote:

> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
> 
> First problem, it's a festering Ford.  HTH.

> Thanks for any advise!


It's Advice.

"Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:42b75ad2$0$38045$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...

> Tim.. wrote:
> > "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
> >> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
> >>
> >> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light
> >> comes on, but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
> >>
> >> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it
> >> should be idling, but only if the car is moving.
> >> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing
> >> the accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however, if
> >> I am moving (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm ish)
> >> then fall once the car has stopped.
> >> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic
> >> moved, just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite the
> >> fact I didn't touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is this a
> >> common fault too!?
> >>
> >
> > This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact virtually
> > all fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast in neutral or
> > clutch down.
>
> No way this is normal!
>
> If the car is idling, then I roll the car at even <5mph, the revs can go
up
> to 2500 rpm sometimes all by it's self, it sounds stupid!
> I haven't heard another car do this, My mates X reg doesn't do it either,
> and my car hasn't been doing it for that long (a few months)
>
> Say I am driving along the road, if I stay in 4th, and gradually slow down
> (I mean really slow breaking), then throw the clutch at the last second
(as
> in just before it is about to stall! it still does it.
> If I go through the gears, only throwing the clutch and moving the N when
I
> am going really really slowly, it still does it.
> People look at me funny if I stop at a zebra, because they think I am
> revving the engine!
>
> Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all!


Idle hang is normal, and its programmed into the ECU to cut emissions and to
better prevent engine stall when coming to a halt. However I would way that
2500rpm is too high- it should be around 1500rpm.

You can often (but not always) adjust the TPS to give a slightly lower
voltage throttle shut. If its around 0.8v, back it off to around 0.6v.

The engine does return to an 800-850rpm idle when stationary doesnt it?

Tim..

Tim.. wrote:

> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:42b75ad2$0$38045$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>> Tim.. wrote:
>>> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>>>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>>>>
>>>> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light
>>>> comes on, but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
>>>>
>>>> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it
>>>> should be idling, but only if the car is moving.
>>>> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing
>>>> the accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however,
>>>> if I am moving (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm
>>>> ish) then fall once the car has stopped.
>>>> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic
>>>> moved, just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite
>>>> the fact I didn't touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is
>>>> this a common fault too!?
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact
>>> virtually all fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast
>>> in neutral or clutch down.
>>
>> No way this is normal!
>>
>> If the car is idling, then I roll the car at even <5mph, the revs
>> can go up to 2500 rpm sometimes all by it's self, it sounds stupid!
>> I haven't heard another car do this, My mates X reg doesn't do it
>> either, and my car hasn't been doing it for that long (a few months)
>>
>> Say I am driving along the road, if I stay in 4th, and gradually
>> slow down (I mean really slow breaking), then throw the clutch at
>> the last second (as in just before it is about to stall! it still
>> does it.
>> If I go through the gears, only throwing the clutch and moving the N
>> when I am going really really slowly, it still does it.
>> People look at me funny if I stop at a zebra, because they think I am
>> revving the engine!
>>
>> Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all!
>
> Idle hang is normal, and its programmed into the ECU to cut emissions
> and to better prevent engine stall when coming to a halt. However I
> would way that 2500rpm is too high- it should be around 1500rpm.
>
> You can often (but not always) adjust the TPS to give a slightly lower
> voltage throttle shut. If its around 0.8v, back it off to around 0.6v.


I don't think the problem isn't related to the throttle, as if the car is 
stationary, and the revs have dropped to the normal idle level, if the car 
is simply rolled forward (out of gear) the revs pick up again, I could of 
course be reading this wrong!


> The engine does return to an 800-850rpm idle when stationary doesn't
> it?


Yes, when stationary, it's fine.

gazzafield wrote:

> Sparks wrote:
>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>>
>> First problem, it's a festering Ford.  HTH.
>
>> Thanks for any advise!
>
> It's Advice.


no, it's advice, no reason to capitalise it, is there?

....and what a great help you are, a real asset to the group I see...

"Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:42b86dcf$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...

> Tim.. wrote:
> > "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:42b75ad2$0$38045$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
> >> Tim.. wrote:
> >>> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> >>> news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
> >>>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
> >>>>
> >>>> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light
> >>>> comes on, but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
> >>>>
> >>>> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it
> >>>> should be idling, but only if the car is moving.
> >>>> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing
> >>>> the accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however,
> >>>> if I am moving (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm
> >>>> ish) then fall once the car has stopped.
> >>>> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic
> >>>> moved, just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite
> >>>> the fact I didn't touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is
> >>>> this a common fault too!?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact
> >>> virtually all fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast
> >>> in neutral or clutch down.
> >>
> >> No way this is normal!
> >>
> >> If the car is idling, then I roll the car at even <5mph, the revs
> >> can go up to 2500 rpm sometimes all by it's self, it sounds stupid!
> >> I haven't heard another car do this, My mates X reg doesn't do it
> >> either, and my car hasn't been doing it for that long (a few months)
> >>
> >> Say I am driving along the road, if I stay in 4th, and gradually
> >> slow down (I mean really slow breaking), then throw the clutch at
> >> the last second (as in just before it is about to stall! it still
> >> does it.
> >> If I go through the gears, only throwing the clutch and moving the N
> >> when I am going really really slowly, it still does it.
> >> People look at me funny if I stop at a zebra, because they think I am
> >> revving the engine!
> >>
> >> Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all!
> >
> > Idle hang is normal, and its programmed into the ECU to cut emissions
> > and to better prevent engine stall when coming to a halt. However I
> > would way that 2500rpm is too high- it should be around 1500rpm.
> >
> > You can often (but not always) adjust the TPS to give a slightly lower
> > voltage throttle shut. If its around 0.8v, back it off to around 0.6v.
>
> I don't think the problem isn't related to the throttle, as if the car is
> stationary, and the revs have dropped to the normal idle level, if the car
> is simply rolled forward (out of gear) the revs pick up again, I could of
> course be reading this wrong!


We seems to be going around in circles. I recommend you pick up a good
reference manual on modern fuel injection systems and have a good read. It
may illustrate to you how the ECU interprets signals from the Throttle
position sensor (TPS), the vehicle speed sensor (VSS), the engine speed
sensor (CAS) and from reading from its stored software manipulates the idle
control valve (ISCV) according to what the car is actually doing.

With EFI, the car is never at 'idle' or 'not at idle' - unlike it was with a
carburettor; it can be at about 9 states inbetween according to what its
doing, and what idle strategy the ECU is implementing. No two engines are
ever the same, and some exhibit more pronoucned behaviour than others.

However your 2500rpm idle flare is excessive and can be reduced.

An increase in revs from base idle whilst the vehicle  is moving IS normal
though.




> > The engine does return to an 800-850rpm idle when stationary doesn't
> > it?
>
> Yes, when stationary, it's fine.


Thats fine then.

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message 
news:d99tto$8ce$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:42b86dcf$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>> Tim.. wrote:
>> > "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:42b75ad2$0$38045$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>> >> Tim.. wrote:
>> >>> "Sparks" <this@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> >>> news:42b75282$0$38044$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
>> >>>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> First problem, the recirc doesn't seem to want to work, the light
>> >>>> comes on, but it doesn't divert the air, is this a common problem?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Second problem is, the engine seems to stay at high revs when it
>> >>>> should be idling, but only if the car is moving.
>> >>>> If the car is stationary, it will rev up as expected when pressing
>> >>>> the accelerator, then the revs fall back to normal idle, however,
>> >>>> if I am moving (even slowly (5mph) they will stay high (2000rpm
>> >>>> ish) then fall once the car has stopped.
>> >>>> I tried this on a hill, stopped in traffic, then when the traffic
>> >>>> moved, just let the car roll, the revs too them self up, despite
>> >>>> the fact I didn't touch the accelerator, and was in neutral. - is
>> >>>> this a common fault too!?
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> This is not a fault of any kind, its meant to do it, infact
>> >>> virtually all fuel injected cars do so. You're not meant to coast
>> >>> in neutral or clutch down.
>> >>
>> >> No way this is normal!
>> >>
>> >> If the car is idling, then I roll the car at even <5mph, the revs
>> >> can go up to 2500 rpm sometimes all by it's self, it sounds stupid!
>> >> I haven't heard another car do this, My mates X reg doesn't do it
>> >> either, and my car hasn't been doing it for that long (a few months)
>> >>
>> >> Say I am driving along the road, if I stay in 4th, and gradually
>> >> slow down (I mean really slow breaking), then throw the clutch at
>> >> the last second (as in just before it is about to stall! it still
>> >> does it.
>> >> If I go through the gears, only throwing the clutch and moving the N
>> >> when I am going really really slowly, it still does it.
>> >> People look at me funny if I stop at a zebra, because they think I am
>> >> revving the engine!
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all!
>> >
>> > Idle hang is normal, and its programmed into the ECU to cut emissions
>> > and to better prevent engine stall when coming to a halt. However I
>> > would way that 2500rpm is too high- it should be around 1500rpm.
>> >
>> > You can often (but not always) adjust the TPS to give a slightly lower
>> > voltage throttle shut. If its around 0.8v, back it off to around 0.6v.
>>
>> I don't think the problem isn't related to the throttle, as if the car is
>> stationary, and the revs have dropped to the normal idle level, if the 
>> car
>> is simply rolled forward (out of gear) the revs pick up again, I could of
>> course be reading this wrong!
>
> We seems to be going around in circles. I recommend you pick up a good
> reference manual on modern fuel injection systems and have a good read. It
> may illustrate to you how the ECU interprets signals from the Throttle
> position sensor (TPS), the vehicle speed sensor (VSS), the engine speed
> sensor (CAS) and from reading from its stored software manipulates the 
> idle
> control valve (ISCV) according to what the car is actually doing.
>
> With EFI, the car is never at 'idle' or 'not at idle' - unlike it was with 
> a
> carburettor; it can be at about 9 states inbetween according to what its
> doing, and what idle strategy the ECU is implementing. No two engines are
> ever the same, and some exhibit more pronoucned behaviour than others.
>
> However your 2500rpm idle flare is excessive and can be reduced.
>
> An increase in revs from base idle whilst the vehicle  is moving IS normal
> though.
>
>
>
>> > The engine does return to an 800-850rpm idle when stationary doesn't
>> > it?
>>
>> Yes, when stationary, it's fine.
>
> Thats fine then.
>
> Tim..
>
>


sounds like a dodgy TPS - I had the problem on a 93 fiesta.  It used to 
surge like that, including when coming to a stop, upon which it would hunt 
for a few seconds, then sort itself out.

I found that when it started playing up, I could generally resolve it by 
letting the engine warm up to the point at which the radiator fan cut in, 
then turn it off.  Next startup it would be fine for a few days or even 
weeks.

Eventually replaced the TPS, never had the problem again.

Rob

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:45:07 +0100, Sparks wrote:


> gazzafield wrote:
>> Sparks wrote:
>>> Just found this group, so Helloooo!
>>>
>>> First problem, it's a festering Ford.  HTH.
>>
>>> Thanks for any advise!
>>
>> It's Advice.
> 
> no, it's advice, no reason to capitalise it, is there?
> 
> ...and what a great help you are, a real asset to the group I see...




THANKS!!! :-)))