Introduction



Although many Cumbric words have survived in Scots and English examples of 
written Cumbric take precedence. Concerning the survival of Cumbric 
vocabulary, Mr. Whittaker in Volume Two, pages 233 to 329, in his History of 
Manchester, has provided a list of three thousand North Country Cumbric 
words that have entered the vocabulary of Standard English. In addition 
Mr.Davies supplied in a paper that he contributed to The Transactions of the 
Philological Society in 1885 another long list of North Country Cumbric 
words that have passed into Standard English. Mr. Davies commented that many 
low, burlesque, and obscene words in the Lancashire dialect can be traced 
back to Cumbric. Furthermore, Mr. Garnet in Volume One, page 171, of the 
Transaction of the Philological Society, also supplied a similar list of 
Cumbric words. Proof of the late survival of Cumbric as a spoken language in 
Cumbria exists in the place-name Cumwhinton, which contains the Norman 
personal name Quinton, and which means Quinton's Valley.  In addition the 
survival of Cumbric field-names and the presence of three Cumbric words in a 
medieval manuscript called Leges Inter Brettos et Scottos lend further 
support for the persistence of Cumbric. The so called Shepherd's 
enumeration, which in fact was mainly used by knitters, must also be taken 
into account. Cumbric arose from Prythonic, which was the ancestor of all P 
Celtic languages. Prythonic developed into Proto-Welsh, Proto-Breton, 
Proto-Cornish, and Proto-Cumbric. Proto-Cumbric was widely spoken throughout 
Scotland, Northern England, and in the North Midlands. It is possible that 
the area in which Proto-Cumbric was spoken even stretched much further 
south. Place-name evidence reveals that Cumbric shared features in common 
with both Welsh and Cornish, and while in some ways Cumbric was more 
innovative than either Welsh or Cornish, certain features of Cumbric can 
only be described as being archaic. Some place-names, such as Pennigant in 
Scotland and Penyghent in England, have preserved elements of what may have 
been two dialects of Cumbric, for example the morpheme -gant and -ghent are 
derived from the Cumbric word *caint, which means a plateaux, and which was 
variously pronounced as *cant and *cent. Some Cumbric place-names, such as 
Larbet and Eccle Fechan, have even preserved elements of Cumbric grammar. 
These grammatical elements indicate that Cumbric was, with a few exceptions, 
identical to Medieval Welsh. This of course opens up the possibility of 
reconstructing Cumbric in much the same was that Nance reconstructed 
Kernewek, and other scholars reconstructed Cornoak. Kernewek is a 
reconstruction of medieval Cornish, whereas Cornoak is the reconstruction of 
Cornish as it would have been spoken just before its demise. A similar 
division between reconstructed early and reconstructed late Cumbric can be 
by deriving early reconstructed Cumbric from place-names, and late 
reconstructed Cumbric from the surviving Cumbric word in Scots and North 
Country dialect. Although paucity of vocabulary is no obstacle to the 
reconstruction of Cumbric, for example Basic English contains a core 
vocabulary of no more that a thousand words; it is possible to borrow Welsh 
words, which indeed was done by Nance. In addition the edition of the Times 
newspaper of the 3rd. January 1991 carried a report that first appeared in 
Le Mond, according to which Lukiann Kergoat, the head of Breton and Celtic 
Studies at the University of Rennes, and chairperson of a committee called 
Kreizhenn ar Geriauin, intended to create twenty thousand new Breton word in 
order to bring Breton up to date by respelling Welsh words. Northern England 
was guest to a large number of Danish and Norwegian settlers, mostly farmers 
and traders. Place-names such as Blennerhasset in Cumbria indicate that 
Scandinavian words were absorbed into Cumbric, thus allowing the modern 
words of science and technology, such as *telefision, to be adopted in 
Reconstructed Cumbric, thus following the example of Basic English. In 
addition many Roman laws, taxes, policing, and modes of administration are 
recorded in the Doomsday Book as having survived in Northern England. 
Archaeological evidence at Wharram Percy, and field and air surveys over the 
North Yorkshire Moors, reveal continuity throughout the sub-Roman period 
without any evidence for the replacement of the native Romano-British 
population by Anglo-Saxons. The importance of this lies in the fact that the 
abandoned settlements and villages in the area, which arose from the 
eviction of the population in order to create grazing land for sheep, are 
veritable time capsules going back to the Roman occupation of Britain. The 
smallness of numbers of Angles in the North-East of England is indicated by 
the fact that once during a siege the Anglian population retired to 
Bamborough Rock, which would indicate that a small number of Angles ruled 
over a large population of Celtic peasants. The fate of these Angles after 
the Danish settlement of Northern England is uncertain, but it is unlikely 
that any of the Anglo-Saxons survived, at best some might have continued as 
broken men, and others would have departed. The reconstruction of Cumbric 
will at least restore a version of the ancient language not only of Northern 
England, but also of Scotland. Northern England, which some authors have 
called Brigantia, lost its last vestige of autonomy when the Council of the 
North, which sat at York, was abolished in 1640 AC.



 In the interests of promoting the use of Reconstructed Cumbric, copyright 
is waived on condition that Cumbric is described as a native language of 
Scotland and Brigantia. Please remember.







                                              List of Abbreviations



Bret. Breton

Chs. Cheshire

c. circa

cf. confer

Corn. Cornish (Kernewek)

Cu. Cumberland

Db. Derbyshire

Dur. Durham

Lancs. Lancashire

Lei. Leicestershire

M.W. Medieval Welsh

Nrth. Northumberland

Notts, Notthinghamshire

R.C. Reconstructed Cumbric

Shr. Shropshire

Shrews. Shrewsbury

Staffs. Staffordshire

Wor. Worcestershire

Wst. Westmorland

W. Welsh

Yorks. Yorkshire

                                             Cumbric Place-Names



                                                                A



Aberruthven: nr. Auchterrarder, Scot., cf. W. aber rudd faen, Corn. aber 
ruth ven, (red stone conflux), R.C. *aber rudd fain.

Ashton-in-Makerfield: Lancs.., Ashton c.1225, cf. Ince-in-Makerfield; cf.W. 
magwyr & Corn magor (wall or ancient ruin). R.C. *magwy, variant *magor, see 
Eaglesfield.

Aspatria: Cu., Aspatric c.1230, a Norse-Cumbric hybrid, this place-name 
preserves a Cumbric genitive.



                                                                B



Barpennald: Cu., cf.W. bar pen allt & Corn. bar pen als, (top of chief 
cliff). R.C. *bar pen alth

Barroc Fell: Cu., Barroc c.1295, cf. M.W. barawg, a spur. This place-name 
preserves a Cumbric adjectival suffix.

Barwick-in-Elmet: cf.W. *Barwyg-yn-Elved, bar (hilltop) and gwyg (coppice).

Bathgate: Scot., Bathchet, c.1160, Bathkethe c.1337, cf.W.baedd goed & Corn. 
both gos, (boar's wood). R.C. * baith gaith. NB. the lenition in the modern 
name; this is indicative of the persistence of Cumbric in the area.

Birdoswald: Cu., Borddoswald c.1200, cf.W. buarth, (cow fold of dairy); cf. 
Burtholm. R.C. *burth

Birkby: Cu., Brethesco c.1203, N. Breta Skogr, (Britton's Wood.); cf. 
Briscow.

Blawith: Cu., Blawit c.1276, cf., W. blaedd wydd & Corn. blydd with (wolf 
wood). R.C. *blaith with

Blencarn: Cu., Blencarne c.1159, Blenecarn c.1210, Blencarn 1211, cf. W. 
blaen y carn, cf. Corn. blyn an carn, (top of the burial mound); R.C. *blain 
y carn

Blencathra: Cu., Blenkarthure c. 1589, cf. W. blaen cader, (throne summit); 
R.C. *blain cadder. The alternative name for this fell is Saddleback.

Blencogo: Cu., Blenecogou c.1292, cf. W. blaen y cogau & Corn. blyn an 
cogas, (hill of cuckoos). R.C. *blain y cogow. This place name preserves a 
Cumbric suffix.

Blencow: Cu. Blenkhaw c.1254. A hybrid Cumbric-Norse place-name, *blain 
(haugr) meaning hill top.

Blennerhesset: Cu. Blennerhaiseta c. 1188, a hybrid Cumbric-Norse 
place-name, *blain yr haisetr, meaning crest of the hay field. This 
place-name establishes that the definite article y became yr before H.

Blindcrake: Cu. Blenecrayc c.1268, cf. W. blaen y cr aig, (summit of the 
rock); R.C. *blain y craic.

Brant Fell: Yorks. a hybrid Cumbric-Norse place-name meaning steep 
hill/mountain. The word brant, together with its variant brent, are still in 
use as a dialect word meaning steep. This is an example of the survival of 
Cumbric in dialect as well as in a place-name.

Bredon: Lei. Briudun c.730, meaning either the summit of a down or a fort.

Breedon: Wor. Beodun c.722, as above.

Briscow: Cu., Brethesco c.1203, see Birkby.

Burtholm: Cu., Burtholm c.1256, a hybrid Cumbric-Norse place-name meaning a 
dairy or cow fold on the spur of a hill. See. Birdoswald.



                                                                 C



Cairndinnis: Scot., near Dunplelder, cf.W. carn dinas (a mound retreat). A 
dinas was a temporary fortified retreat as distinct from caer, which was a 
permanent stone-built stronghold such as a castle or farm-house, also cf. 
Dinas Sitch Tor, Db. behind the Snake in on Snake Pass.

Calder: Lancs., Kalder c.1200, cf. W. place-names Calettwr and Clettwr, 
(hard water, i.e. fast flowing river), W. called dwr; R.C. *caleth *dwr. The 
word cal has acquired a new meaning in Welsh and Cornish, therefore it is 
supposed the original was*Calthdwr.

Cambeck: Nth. Camboc c.1169, Cambec c.1622, (a meandering stream).

Camblesford: Yorks. Camelesford c.1311, cf.W. cam y lais, (bend on the 
stream). R.C. *cam y lais.

Camerton: Cu., Camerton c. 1150, cf.W. cymmer, (conflux), R.C. *cwmmer.

Capledre: Scot. Lochere in Linlithgow, cf.W. ceffyl dre, (horse town) R.C. 
*capel dre, cappel is a dialect word meaning a horse.

Capplerigg: Cu., see Capledre above.

Caraverick: Cu., Caraverick c.1150, the name of a lost settlement in Leath 
Ward of Cumberland. Caraverick c.1150, cf.W. caer efrog (farmhouse amid 
cowslips), R.D. *cair *afyric. NB. the intrusive y before R and initial E 
changed to A.

Carcowe: Wst. a field-name in West Ward of Westmorland. A hybrid 
Cumbric-Norse field-name, *Cair Haugr. The importance of a Celtic word 
appearing in a field-name is that it indicates a late survival of spoken 
Cumbric in West Ward.

Cardew: Cu., Carthew c.1287, cf. W. caer ddu, (black farmhouse), R.C. *cair 
*ddu.

Cardrona: Traquair in Peebles, Scot., Cardronow c. 1500, cf.W. caer dronau, 
(fort circle, i.e., of standing stones), R.C. *cair dronow. This place name 
contains the cambric plural -ow.

Cardunneth Pike: Cu., Cardunnoke c.1386, cf.W. caer Dunod, (Donatus' 
farmhouse), R.C. *cair Dunoth: see also Dintsmere, Chs., boundary of 
Donatus, also see Dinting, Chs., Dintinge, c. 1226, place of Donatus, 
Dinthill, Shrews., Dunthill c. 1200, hill of Dontatus, R.C. *Dunoth.,

Cardurnock: Cu., Cardrunnoke, c. 1386, cf.W. caer *durenog (pebbly 
farmhouse), c f. W. duren (pebble, steel, flint). NB. the disappearance of E 
between consonant R and nasal N. R.C. *cair durnoc.

Carfrae: Scot., Lauderdale in Berwickshire, cf.W. caer fre (hill fort). NB. 
this place-name has preserved the lenition of B into V. R.V. *cair fre

Cark: Lancs. Karke c.1491, cf.W. careg (stone). NB. the disappearance of E 
between the consonants R and K. R.C. * carc.

Carkin: Yorks. Karrecan c. 1200, Kercan, c. 1200, cf.W. careg can (white 
stone). See also Cargo, Cu. From Carec Haugr, hybrid Celtic-Norse place-name 
meaning White Hill. NB. the disappearance of E after R and before C. R.C. 
*carc can.

Carnetly: Cu., Carnthelaue c.1230. (Burial Mound of Teilo.), cf., Llanteilo 
in Wales. NB. that this place-name appears to preserve an aspirate mutation. 
R.C. * carn teilo.

Carwath: Scot., Lanarkshire, Karnewid c.1179, Carnewithe c.1315, Carnwith c. 
1451, cf.W. carn y gwydd (durial mound of trees), cf. Corn. carn an gwyth. 
R.C. *carn y gwydd.

Carrick: Wst., cf. local dialect word currock and currick meaning a cairn or 
heap of stones, cf. Carrick in Scotland. The survival of Cumbric words in 
Scots and North Country dialect serves as the basis of the argument that 
Cumbric never really died out.

Carrock Fell: Cu., Carroc c. 1208, cf.W. carog (fenced, walled, or 
fortified).R.C. *caroc.

Carwinley: Cu., Carwyndelawe c. 1292, Karwendelowe c.1281, Carwyndelowe 
c.1300, cf. W. caer Wenddoleu (Gwenddoleu's Castle). R.C. *cair Wenddolaw.

Castle Carrock: Cu., Castelcairoc x.1165, Castelcarroc c. 1212, cf. W. 
castell caerog. R.C. *castel cairoc.

Castel Hewin: Cu., Castelewyne c.1272, Castle Hewin c.1794, cf.W. castell 
Owain (Owain's castle). This castle is legended to have been the castle of 
Eugenius Caesarius, a king of Cumbria who expelled the Angles and 
re-established British rule after the Saxons had been driven out. R.C. 
*castel Ewain. RC. *cader lan.

Catterlen: Cu., Caderlen c. 1165, cf. W. cader llan (hermitage throne). 
Cader in this case is from the Greek word kathedra meaning a bishop's 
throne. Cumberland, as well as Elmet and Cornwall, were Christian throughout 
the sub-Roman era, and were not reconverted to Christianity by Irish monks.

Catterton: Yorks. Cadreton c.1230, a hybrid English and Cumbric place-name 
meaning fort enclosure. NB. This place-name preserves a Saxon word just as 
Blennerhasset has preserved a Norse word.

Cairndinnis: Scot., near Dunpelder, this could possible mean the burial 
mound of Dionysius.

Chadderton: Lancs. see Catterton.

Cheadle: Chs. Chedle c.1153 (wood hill). A hybrid Cumbric and English place 
name.

Cheetham: Lancs. Chetham c. 1226 (wood pasture) A hybrid Cumbric and English 
place name.

Clesketts: Cu. Closchet c.1245, cf.W. clas coed (glebe wood), clas is an 
enclosed space, a green covering of grass, or glebe land. R.C. *clas caidd.

Comberbach: Chs. Comburbach c.1333 (stream of the Cwmbro), cf.W. cymro, 
Corn. kembro, from Prythonic cumbrogi meaning a compatriot. R.C. * *cwmbro 
boc. NB. In Cumbric W and O did not become Y before nasal plus stop as in 
Welsh, Breton, and Cornish. This is a distinctive feature of Cumbric, one of 
several that indicate that Cumbric was a separate language even though 
similar to Welsh.

Combermere: Chs. Cumbremara c.1157, (compatriot wasteland). R.C. *cwmbru 
myr.

Comberford: Staffs, this indicates that Cumbric was once spoken in the North 
Midlands, see also. Wor. Comberton, Lancs Comberhalgh.

Condor: Lancs. Condovere c.1246, cf.W. cam dwfr (crooked waters). R.C. *cam 
dwfr.

Coulderton: Cu., Culdreton c.1180, cf.W. cul dir (narrow land). R.C. *cul 
dir. This is a very interesting place name because it acquired the English 
word ton in the 12th.century, which would indicate that it was about this 
time that Scots began to replace Cumbric in Cumberland, which was the last 
refuge of spoken Cumbric.

Couwhencatte: Cu., Cumquencath c.1169. (Gwencad's valley). Gwencad is a 
personal name that means White Battle. R.C. *cwm Cwencadd. NB. the mutation 
of G into C.

Culcheth: Lancs., Culchet c.1201, Kulcheth c.1246, cf. W. cul goed (narrow 
wood), RC. *cul gaidd.

Culgaith: Cu., Culchet c.1203, Culgayth c.1232, cf. W. cul goed (narrow 
wood). Culgayth and Culgaith are verifications of the Reconstructed Cumbric 
*cul gaidd.

Cumcath: Cu., Cumcache c.1292, cf.W. cwm cach (dung valley), RC. *cwm cach.

Cumcrook: Cu., Cumcruk c.1295, cf.W. cwm crug (valley mound), RC. *cwm cruc.

Cumdivock: Cu., Cumdevoc c. 1244. Devoc's Valley, Prythonic personal name 
Dubacos meaning Dark or Swathy Man, cf.W. duog (dark), RC. *dufoc. NB. the 
persistence of the intrusive F, which is absent in the Welsh version of this 
adjective.

Cummersdale: Cu. Cumbredal c.1227. A hybric Cumbric and Norse place name 
meaning the Valley of the Cymru, cf. also Cumberland: Cumbraland c.945, cf. 
also Cumberhill in Derbyshire, Cumberworth in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, 
see also Cumberbach cf. W. Cymru, RC. *Cwmbru. NB. The persistence of stop B 
after nasal M, and the persistence of W before nasal plus stop.

RC. *Cwmbru

Cumrew: Cu., Cumreu c.1200, Cumrew c.1209, cf.W. cwm rhiw, (valley slope). 
RC. *cwm riw.

Cumwhinton: Cu., Cumquinton c.1227. Quinton's Valley. Quinton is a 
Norman-French personal name. This place-name is proof that Cumbric was 
spoken after William Duke of Normandy succeeded Edward the Confessor.

Crakeplace Hall: Cu., Crakeplace c.1288, cf.W. craig plas (stone manor). RC. 
*craic plas.

Crew: Chs. Cruwe c.1190, Cruue c.1288, cf.W. cryw (a ford or stepping 
stones), cf. Crewgarth in Cumberland,cf. W. cryw garth (ford farm)..RC. 
*cryw garth

Crich: Db., Cryc c.1009, cf.W. crug (a hill). RC. *cruc.

Crickheath: Shr., Cruchet c.1272, cf.W. crug (a mound). RC. *cruc gaidd 
(wood containing a burial mound).

Crofton Bridge: Cu., formerly Waspatrickwath, meaning the Ford of Patrick's 
Servant. Patrick was a local saint who attained fame in Ireland, Gwaspatrick 
or Sevant of Patrick was a local fore-name.

Cruckton: Shr. Crocton c.1272, Crokton c.1308, cf. W. crug (burial mound), 
RC. *cruc.







                                                                D

Dacre: Cu., Dakre c.1292, cf. W. deigre (a tear drop). Dacre refers to a 
nearby stream, cf. Dacre in Yorkshire. NB. that the Welsh diphthong EI, 
pronounced as I, eye, and aye in English is pronounced as short A in 
Cumbric. RC. *daicre.

Dacre Beck: Cu., Dakerbek c.1323, RC. *daicre boc (tear stream).

Dalkieth: Scot., Dolchet c.1144, Dalkethe c.1337, cf.W. dal coed (meadow 
wood). RC.* dal caidd. NB. that the Cumbric *caidd has become the personal 
name Kieth.

Dalfibble: Scot., Dumfries, cf.W. dal pebyll (spread tent), RC.*dal febyl. 
NB. the mutation of P into F in this Cumbric place-name.

Dane: Chs. Dauuen c.1220, Daan c.1416, cf.W. dafn (a drip), cf. also 
Davenport in Cheshire meaning 'Drip Paved Road'. RC.*dafn.

Desoglin: Cu., Dassoglen c.1596. Oglen is related to the Welsh ogl meaning 
full of motion or life, in Welsh das means a heap. This place name could be 
construed to mean a heap of a certain substance that is full of certain 
living beings, but it probably refers to nearby marshy ground. RC. *das 
oglyn.

Devoke: Duvokeswater c. 1205, Duffockiswatir c.1280, the place-name means 
Dubacos' Lake, water referring to a lake or loch.

Dinthill: Shrews. Duntull c.1299, (Donatus' hill), cf. Dintsmere: Chs. 
Donatus' boundary mark, also Dinting: Chs. Duntinge c.1226, (Donatus'place),

Dinwiddie: Scot. Roxburgh, Dunwedy c.1504, cf. Dunwoody in Dumfries, cf. W. 
gwyddfa (woody place, a Bardic seat), and cf. Gwyddfa (Snowdon). NB., 
Dinwiddie and Dunwoody would be suitable places to hold a Scottish 
Eisteddfod.

Dollerline: Cu., Dallerline c.1598, cf.W. dol ar lefniad (loop on the 
smoothness). RC. *dol ar lefni. This place name refers to an ox-bow.

Douglas: Lancs., cf.W. glais (a stream), see also Diggles in Lancashire, 
both meaning black stream. RC. *du glais, NB. that the adjective precedes 
the noun. Douglas is also the surname of a well known Lancashire family, and 
is also used as a forename.

Dove Dale: Db. Duuendale c.1296, cf. River Dove in Derbyshire, Dufan c.951, 
Duue c. 1228, cf. also Dove Holes in Derbyshire. RC. *dufyn, diminutive of 
*duf meaning dark.

Dover Beck: Notts. Doverbec c.1227, cf.W. dwfr (waters). RC. *dwfr boc 
(stream of waters).

Dunreggit: Scot., Fort of Rheged, see Rochdale. Rheged was a British kingdom 
that included S.E. Scotland and N.W. England. RC. *dwn regedd.

Dreva: Scot., Tweed. Cf.W. y dre fa (the village place). RC. *y dre fa. NB. 
the lenition.

Drumburgh: Cu., Drumboc c.1225. Old Welsh drwm bach (small ridge). RC. *drwm 
bach.

                                                                E



Eccles: Lancs. Eccles c.1200, cf. Yorks Ecclesall, Eccleshale c.1205, cf. 
Ecclesfield, Ecclesfeld c.1109, Eccleshill, and Lancs. Eccleston, Ecclestine 
c. 1190, Great & Little Eccleston, Ecleston c.1285, and Db Eccles Pike, 
Ecclesbourne, and Staff. Eccleshall, and Drh. Egglescliffe, and Cu. 
Eglesfield, Eglesfeld c.1290, and Scot. Ecclefechan, cf. W. eglwys & Corn. 
Eglos, NB. the archaicism of these place-names in that the final vowel 
remained unchanged. RC. *egles.

Eddleston: Scot. Formerly Pentiacob, Jacob's penthouse. RC. *pent Iacob

Etherow: Chs. Ederhou c.1221, Ederou c.1285, Edderowe c.1290, cf. W. edd 
(glide), and haw (sluggish). RC. *edd yr how.

Ewanrigg: Co. Evenrigg c.1295, Ouenrig c.1332, Owain's Ridge. RC. *Owain



                                                               G



Gawswoth: Chs. Gouseworth c. 1276, cf.W. gof (a smith). RC. *gof

Gilcrux: Cu. Killecruce c. 1175, cf.W. cil y crug (retreat by the hillock). 
Rc. *cil y cruc.

Glasgow: Scot. Glasgu c.1136, cf.W. glas gau (green hollow). RC. *glas gow.

Glencoyn: Cu.Glencaine c.1212 Glenekone c.1255, Glencon c.1291, cf.W. glyn 
cawn (valley of reed). RC. *glyn cown

Glencoyne: Wst. Glencaine c.1212, Glenekone c.1255, Glencon c.1291, 
Glenkwent c.1577, Glenkwen c.1622. NB. This and the above place-name have 
been influence by the imposition of the English Gaelic word cain, meaning 
beautiful. The elements of English Gaelic in place-names are too few to 
attempt the reconstruction of English Gaelic.

Glendermackin: Cu. Glenermakon c.1278, cf.W. glyn y magon (valley of 
berries.) RC. *glyn y macon.

Glenderterra: Cu. Glunduvar c.1247, Glenderterray c.1729, cf.W. glyn dwfr 
terion (valley of pure water.) RC. *glyn dwfr terion. NB. The 18thcent. 
place-name has preserved *terion.

Glenridding: Wst. Glenredyn c.1292, cf.O.W. glinn redin, W. glyn rhedyn.

Glensax: Scot. Peebles, and Gensaxon in Dumfries, cf.W. glyn sais (Saxon 
Valley.) RC. *glyn saix. NB. The Cumbric archaism preserves the penultimate 
C.

Goyt: Chs. Recorded as both Gwith and Gote in the 14th cent., cf.W. gwyth (a 
narrow channel), Corn. goth & gwith. RC. *gwyth & goth. NB. The Welsh 
diphthong WY appears either as WI or O in Cumbric and Cornish. The 
pronunciation of long O as the diphthong OI was once a feature of the local 
dialect.

Gragareth: The Three Men of Gragareth: Yorks, Whernside, a topographical 
feature. Could be reconstructed into Welsh as y tri mein y gorgaered, 
meaning the three rocks (y tri mein) of the limit (gor) of the city wall 
(gaered). RC. *y tri mein y gor gairedd.



                                                                 H



Hesketh: Lancs. Heschate c.1288, Heskayth c.1298, c.W. hais coed (prickle 
wood). RC. *hais caidd.

Heskin: Lancs. Heskyn c.1257, cf. W. hesgen (sedge, rush). RC. *hescen.

Hints: Staff. Hintes c.1199, also Hints, Shr. Hintes c. 1242, Hyntes c.1292, 
cf.W. hynt (road, way, course). RC. *hynt



                                                                  I



Ince: Chs. Ynes c.1100, also Ince in Makerfield, cf.W. ynys. RC. *ynys

Inchkieth: Scot., cf.W. ynys coed (island wood). RC. *ynys caith.



                                                                 K



Keldowansik: Wst. A field-name containing a Norse word and a Celtic personal 
name meaning Owain's spring. The existence of these Cumbric field names is 
evidence of the persistence of Cumbric as a spoken language.

Kent: Lancs. A river-name, also Kennet, cf.W.cynnwyd (primary element). RC. 
*cynnwith, var. *cynnoth.

Kenyon: Lancs. Kenien c.1212, cf.W. crug Enion (Enion's burial mound). RC. 
*cruc Enion.

Ketton: Rut. Ketene c.1174, Chetena c.1146, cf.W. coeden (a tree). RC. 
*caidden

Kirkbrynnok: Cu. c.1339. A lost place-name, Kirkja Brynach, Brynach's 
Church. Note the adoption of a Norse word yet Celtic grammar.

Kirkcambeck: Cu. Camboc c.1177, Kirkecamboc c.1280. Church (kirkja) on the 
crooked stream (camboc).

Kirkley: Nth. Crikelawa c. 13th. Cent. A hybrid Celtic Saxon word meaning 
hill (cruc) hill (hlaw).

                                                                 L



Lamplough: Cu. Lamplou c. 1150, cf.W. llan plwyf, (parish church), cf. Corn. 
lan plov. RC. *lan plof.

Lanark: Scot. Cf.W. llanerch (hay-field). RC. *lanarch. NB. The short E 
before R plus stop has become short A.

Landican: Cu. Landekan c. 1281, cf. Llandegfan in Anglesay, Tegfan's Church. 
RC. *lan decfan. NB. Note the lenition.

Lanercost: Cu. Lanercost c. 1271, cf.W. llanerch Awst, Augustus's hay-field. 
RC.  *lan Owst.

Lanrekaythin: Cu. Lanrecaithin c.1210. A lost place-name, cf.W. llanerch 
eithin (meadow of furze). RC. *lanarch aithin.

Larbet: Scot., Sterlingshire, Lethberth c. 1196, cf.W. leddberth 
(semi-bush). RC. *leddberth.

Laver: Yorks. Lauer c. 1307, also. Laversdale in Cumberland, Laverton in 
Yorkshire, a river-name, cf.W. llafr (spreading) RC. * lafer.

Leeds: Yorks. Loidis c.730 (Bede), Ledes c.1196, possible a river-name 
meaning flowing.

Leen: Notts. Liene c.1200, also Lyne in Northumberland, Lina c.1050, cf.W. 
lliant (torent). RC. *lian. NB. Absence of final S.

Leswalt: Scot. Galloway, cf.W. llys wellt (grassy court of manour house). 
RC. *lys walt. NB. Note the change of short E into short A before liquid 
plus stop. In Welsh gwallt means hair.

Leven: Chs. A river-name, Levene c.12^0, also Leven in Lancashire and 
Yorkshire, cf.W. llyfniad (smootness). RC. *lyfeni.

Lickle: Lancs. River-name, Licul c.1140, cf.O.W. llig (gliding out or 
through). RC. *licol (abounding in water courses)..

Lindefferon: Scot. Fife, see Hint, cf.W. llyn dwr hynt (flowing water 
course). RC.*lin dwr hynt.

Lindow: Chs. cf.W. llyn ddu (black lake).

Lindreth: Cu. cf.W. llyn ddrud (flow-rapid, i.e. a torrent). RC. *lin 
ddrudd.

Lingmell Crag: cf W. grug moel craig (heather-bald crag). RC. * ling mail 
craic.

Linlithgow: Scot. Linlithcou c.1150, cf.W. llyn llaith cau (lake wet 
hollow). RC. *lin laith cow.

Liscard: Chs. Lisenecark c.1256, cf.W. llys y carreg (stone manour house). 
RC. lis yn carrec. NB. The definite article yn.

Liverpool: Lancs. Liverpul c.1194, Litherpol c.1222, cf. W. llifr pwl 
(conflux pool) and litthr pwl (slip pool). This is a reference to a small 
pool that gave haven to fishing boats in medieval times, and which later 
served as a dock, but which has since been filled in. RC. *lifr pwl, *lithr 
pwl.

Lothersdale: Yorks. Loderesden c.1202, Lothereston c.1285, also Lauderdale 
in Scotland, cf.W. lleidr (bandit), and cf. Corn lader (a thief). RC. * cwm 
laiddr (bandit valley).

Lyne: Cu. Luene c.1292. RC. *lefeni. See Leven above.

Lyvennet: Wst. River-name Levenyd c.1292, Leveneth c.1292. This river is 
called Llwyfenyd in the Welsh translation of Taliesin's original Cumbric 
poem Urien of Rheged. RC. *lofenydd.

Lizard: Shp. Lusgerde c.664, lisgarde c.1291, cf.W. llys garth (court farm). 
RC. *lys garth.



                                                                 M



Mabbin Hill: Wst. personal name Mabon.

Macefen: Chs. Masefen c.1260, cf.W. maes y ffin (field at the boundary). RC. 
*mais y ffin.

Maidencastle: Cu. formerly Carthonock c.1589, Thannock's Castle.

Mallerstang: Wst. Malrestang c.1223, Malvestang c.1228, cf.W. moel fre (bald 
mountain), and cf. Nor. stongr (staff). RC. *mail fre stang.

Mamhead: Db. Mammeheved c.1242, cf.W. maen (a stone), cf.Manchester, 
Mansfield, Mamesfeld c.1093, Mam Tor, etc. RC. *main. NB. This place name 
includes the Norse word for head.

Manor: Scot., Peebles, Maner c.1323, cf.W. maenor (a district marked by 
stones, or a manor house). RC. *mainor.

Maryport: Cu. formerly Aylnfoote c.1656. The river Ayln was called the 
Alavna in Roman times. Ayln foot means the mouth of the Ayln; this is a 
Celtic turn of phrase. Sir Humphrey Senhouse changed Aylnfoot into Maryport 
after his wife Mary.

Maughonby: Cu. Merchamby c.1254. A Cumbric-Norse hybrid place-name meaning 
Mercion's farm, from Roman personal name Marcianus. NB. The survival of 
Romano-British personal names would suggest the survival of a Romano-British 
population.

Meckfen: Scot, Perthshire, Mekfen c. 1226, Mecven c.1443, cf.W. mign maen 
(bog stone). RC. *myc fain.

Megget Water: Scot., Selkirkshire, also Meggeth, Cu., cf.W. mignydd (a bog), 
also

mignoedd (bogs). RC. * mygydd, pl. *mygaidd.

Meigle: Scot., Perthshire, Migdele in The Legend of Saint Michael, cf.W. 
mign dol (bog meadow). RC. *mig dol.

Melkinthorpe: Wst. Melcanetorp c.1150, cf. O.W. personal name Mailcun, 
cf.O.Ir. Maelcian.

Mellor:  Lancs. Melver c.1246, also Mellor Db. Melner c.1330, cf.W. moel fre 
(bald hill). RC. *mail fre.

Melrose: Scot., cf.W. moel rhos, also Corn. mol ros (bald heath). RC. * mail 
ros.

Menstrie: Scot. Clackmannen, Mestry c.1315, Menstry c.1392, cf.W. maes y 
tre, also Corn.  mes an tre (village of the open plain). RC. *mais tre, and 
*mais yn tre. NB. The spellings menstry suggest that the definite article 
became yn before a dental.

Methvan: Scot., Perthshire, Methven c.1211, cf.W. medd faen, also Corn. meth 
ven (mead stone). RC. *medd fain.

Migvie: Scot., Stratherrich, cf.W. mign fa (a boggy place). RC.* mig fy

Morcambe Bay: Lancs. Cf. W. mor cam (crooked sea). NB. This is an example of 
a trap for the unwary. Morcambe Bay was suggested by in Whitaker's The 
History of Manchester 1771, as the sight of Ptolemy's Marikambe. There is a 
Marricambe Bay in Cumberland whose origin is obscure. Pennines is another 
such trap. The original name was Riggings, meaning the Ridges. The name 
Pennines is an adaptation of the Appenines in Italy.

Morphie: Scot., Kincardine, cf.W. mor fa (sea place). RC. * mor fy.



                                                              N



Newton Arlosh: Cu. Arlosk c.1185, cf.W. llosg (fire). RC. *arlosc (land 
cleared by burning) NB. Arlosh contains the intensive prefix ar- (over), 
this indicates that such prefixes were in use in Cumbric.

Niddrie: Scot., Edinburgh, Nudref c.1290, Nodref c.1336, cf.W. newydd dref 
(new town), also Corn. noweth dref. RC. * now dref.

Noe: Db. A river-name, Noue c.1300,  cf.W. nofio (to swim). RC. nofio  (to 
flow or to

float).

                                                            O



Ochiltree: Scot., Kyle and Galloway, Uchiltre c.1304, Uchiltrie c.1406, cf. 
W uchel tre (high village), also cf. Corn. ughel tre. RC. *uchel tre.

Ogilvie: Scot., Perthshire, cf.W. uchel fa (high place), also cf. Corn. 
ughel va. RC. *uchel vy.





                                                                P



Panbridge: Scot., Forfarshire, Pannebride c 1261, cf.W. pant Brigid (Briget's 
valley). RC. * pan y Brigidd. NB. The G is a jod.

Panmure: Scot., Forfarshire, Pannemor c. 1261, cf.W. pant mawr (big valley), 
also cf. Corn. pans mur. RC. *pan y mowr.

Pant: Scot. (Stair Parish in Ayrshire), cf.W. pant (valley), cf. Corn. pans. 
RC. *pant.

Pant: Wst. a field-name in Kendell Ward, cf.W. pant. RC. *pant. NB. 
Field-names indicate a late survival of Cumbric.

Pardovan: Scot. Linlithgowshire, Purduuyn c. 1282, Pardovin c. 1542, cf. W. 
par ddwfn (deep field), also Pardovingishill, Scot. Renfrewshire. RC. *par 
ddwfn.

Parton: Scot. Cf.W. perth (a bush). RC. *perth.

Parwich: Db. Peuerwich c.966, cf.W. pefr wyg (bright farm or copse). RC. 
*pefr wic.

Patterdale: Cu. Patrichesdale c. 1148. NB. Patrick's valley.

Peebles: Scot. Cf.W. pabell (a tent or pavillion). RC. *pabel.

Peffer: Scot. Cf.W. pefr (bright). RC. *pefr.

Pencaitland: Scot. Penketland c.1296, cf.W. pen coed llan (end of the wood), 
cf.Corn. pen cos lan. RC. *pen caidd lan.

Penhurrock: Wst. c.1777. NB. Currock and currick are local words for a heap 
of stones or a cairn. The currock in question is a stone circle on a 
tumulus, grid 83-629104.

Pen Howe: Wst. a field-name in Kendall ward, a hybrid Cumbric-Norse 
place-name, pen haugr.

Penistone: Scot. Selkirk, cf.W. pen yr ystrum (head of the bend). RC. *pen 
ystrum.

Penistone: Yorks. Peningeston c.1199, cf.W. pen yr ystrum.RC. *pen yn 
ystrum.

Pennystone: Scot. Kirkmabrek, cf.W. pen yr ystrum (head of the bend). RC. 
*pen ystrum.

Penicuik: Scot. Edinburgh, cf.W. pen y coed, cf. Corn. pen an cok. RC. *pen 
y coc. NB. This place-name, together with Blencogo, determines that the 
ultimate C in coc became G in the plural, hence sing. *coc pl. *cogow.

Penketh: Lancs. Penket c. 1242, Penketh c. 1259, cf.W. pen coed (wood end) 
cf. Corn. pen cos, cf. Bret. Pen koad. RC. *pen caidd.

Penkridge: Staffs. Pencric c.958, cf.W. pen crug. RC. *pen cruc.

Penmanshiel: Scot. Berwickshire, a hybrid Cumbric and Norse place-name 
containing Norse skali (a shelter), cf.W.pen maen. RC. *pen main

Pennigant: Scot. Roxburgh, cf.W. pen y gaint (end of the plain). RC.*pen y 
gaint (end of the plateaux).

Penyghent: Yorks. Penegent c.1307. NB. Alternative pronunciations for the 
diphthong AI.

Pennymure: Scot. Roxburgh, cf. W. pen y mur (end of the wall). RC. *pen y 
mur.

Penersax: Scot. Dumfriesshire, cf.W. pen y sais (hill of the Saxon). RC. 
*pen yr sacs.

Penpont: Scot. Dumfries, cf.W. pen pont (bridge end), cf. Penpons in 
Cornwall. RC. *pen pont.

Penrith: Cu. Penred c. 1167, Penreth c. 1185, Penerith c.1367, cf.W. pen 
rhyd (ford end), cf.Corn. pen res. RC. *pen rydd.

Pensax: Wor. Pensex c 1231 (Saxon hill).

Penty: Scot. Lanarkshire, cf.W. pendy (main house, i.e. manor house). NB. No 
lenition in penty.

Peover: Chs. Peuere c. 1277, cf.W. pefr (bright). RC. *pefr.

Pilling: Lancs. Pylin c.1246, cf.W. pyll (pool or creek). RC.* pylen 
(diminutive, small pool or creek).

Plenmellior: Nb. Plenmenewre c.1256, Playnmelor c.1279, cf.W. blaen moel vre 
(summit of bald mountain). RC. *blain mail vre. NB. The initial sharp 
mutation of B into P is unexplained.

Plenploth: Scot., cf.W. blaen y plwyf (parish front or before the parish). 
RC. *blain plof

Poltragow: Cu. Poltraghaue c.1485, cf.W. pwll trachau (hills protruding into 
lowland). RC. *pol trachow.

Polmaise: Scot. Stirlingshire, cf.W. pwll maes (field pool). RC. *pol mais.

Pontheugh: Scot. Berwickshire, Hugh's Bridge.

Preesall: Lancs. Preshoved, Preshoved c.1190. A Hybridf Cumbric and Norse 
place-name meaning Brushwood Head, cf.W. prys (brushwood, fuel), cf.Corn 
pres (meadow). RC, *prys.

Prenlas: Scot.  Leslie Parish in Fife, cf.W. pren glas (green plank). NB. 
The lenition in Prenlas. RC.* pren las. NB. Lenition.

Priorsdale: Cu. Presdale c.1280, cf.W. prys.



                                                                      R

Raswraget: Cu. a lost place-name in Eskdale Ward, Roswrageth c.1169, cf.W. 
rhos wragedd (woman moor). RC. * ros wragedd.

Redmain: Cu. Redeman c.1188, cf.W. Rhyd y Maen (ford of stone) in Dolgelly. 
RC. *ryd y main.

Roch: Lancs. River-name, Rachet c. 1292, cf.W. rheged (liberality, largess, 
bounty). Rheged, an ancient Romano-British and Christian kingdom in England 
during the Dark Ages. RC. * Regedd.

Rochdale: Lancs. Rachedal c.1195, Rachedham c.1193, (valley of the river 
Roch.)

Roose: Yorks. Rossa c. 1135, also Roose in Derbyshire, Rosse c.1156, Roose 
in Cheshire, Roose c.1336, also Roos and Rossal in Lancashire, cf.W. rhos 
(moor, heath). RC. *ros.

Ruthven: Scot. Perthshire, cf.W. rhudd faen (red stone), cf.Corn. ruth ven. 
RC. rudd fain.



                                                                  S

Seisdon: Staffs. Saiesdona c. 1130, Seisdon c.1243, Saxon's Down, cf.W, sais 
(Saxon), cf. Corn. saws (saxon). NB. Compare with Penersax and Glensax. RC. 
*sais.

Sherbourn-in-Elmet: Yorks. Silva Elmete c.730, Elmed saeta (Bede), Elmet c. 
800, Elmete c.1212, Elmeticos found on a tombestone in Carnarvan, cf.W. 
Elvyd.



                                                                  T

Talkin Fell: Cu. Talkenfell c.1589, cf. W.& Corn., tal (brow) and can 
(white), Bret. Tal kan. RC. *tal can,

Tallentire: Cu. Tanentire c.1160, cf.W. tal y tir (end of the land), Corn. 
tal an tyr. RC. *tal yn tir, NB. The definite article before dental.

Tarnmonath Fell: Cu. This is a hybrid Cumbric and Norse place-name, cf. W. 
mynydd, (mountain) cf.Corn meneth. Tarn from tjorn. RC. *monydd.  NB. This 
place-name preserves the Cumbric word *monydd as monath. The vowels O and U 
before nasal plus stop did not in Cumbric, unlike the rest of the P-Celtic 
languages, experience sound change. This in itself is sufficient to 
establish Cumbric as a separate language in itself, and not just a dialect 
of Welsh. Note also the ability of Cumbric to adopt load words such a tjorn.

Tarn Wadling: Cu. Ternewathelan c. 1338, cf.W. Gwyddelan as in the 
place-name Dol Wyddelan in Carnarvanshire. The word Gwyddel can mean either 
a pre-Celtic inhabitant or an Irishman. RC. *gwyddelan. In local legend the 
tarn or lake, which was filled in some time ago, was the lake from which 
Arthur's sword came. RC. *tarn wyddelan.

Tarvin: Chs. Tervin c.1209, cf.W. terfyn (boundary), from Lat. terminus.

Teman: Cu. Tenman c.1346, Temayne c.1568, cf.W. tan maen (fire stone), 
cf.Corn. ten men. RC. * tan main. NB. Teanen bonfires were lit at May Eve 
and Halloween in the Pennines and elsewhere, and cattle were passed through 
two bonfires to cure murrain, tean is a dialect word for a bonfire.

Tercrosset: Cu. Torcrossoc c.1193, cf.W. croesog (abounding in crosses), cf. 
Corn. crowsek. RC. *tor crosoc. NB. The origin of the Cumbric word *tor, 
which abounds expecially in Derbyshire and Cumbrian 12th century 
place-names, is enigmatic. Place-name experts are of the opinion that 12th 
century Cornish tin miners were brought into Derbyshire to mine lead and 
bluestone, and into Cumbria to mine graphite for pencils, and they brought 
the word tor, which is said to mean a tower, with them by naming cliffs and 
rocky prominences that look like towers tors, such as Mam Tor in Derbyshire. 
There is a Welsh word tor, which means a bulge, and it appears in Welsh 
place-names such as Tor y Mynydd, but place-name experts discount any Welsh 
influence in favour of the theory wandering twelfth century Cornish tin 
miners, for example it would be foolish to consider a Cumbric origin for Mam 
Tor such as *Main Tor y Monydd because Mam Tor is undoubtedly shaped like 
the tower of a Cornish tin mine.

Terregles: Scot. Galloway, formerly Traveregles, cf. Corn. place-name 
Treveglos (church town or a village containing the parish church). RC. *tref 
yr egles.

Torpenhow: Cu. Torpennoc c.1163, cf. W. penog (abounding in peaks). RC. 
*torpenoc. NB. It is possible that the wandering Cornish tin miners, so 
beloved by place-name experts, first wandered through Wales, then 
Derbyshire, and finally to Cumberland, picking up a smattering of Welsh on 
the way, such as the Welsh word penog, hence a Cornish and Welsh hybrid 
place name *tor penog.

Trabroun: Scot., in Lauderdale, Treuerbrun c.1170, cf.W. tref y bryn 
(village on the hill), also Trabroun in Haddington, Scotland. RC. *tref yr 
bryn. NB.Definite article.

Trenant: Scot. Edinburgh, formerly Trevernent, cf.W. tref y neintydd (town 
of the steep sided valley). RC. * tref yr neint. NB. Note the definite 
article and the Cumbric plural of the word nant.

Traprain: Scot. Haddington, Trepren c.1335, cf.W. trefbren (plank village). 
It if possible that this settlement was composed of scalis, which consists 
of planks covered in turves and fashioned in a circular pattern, the ends of 
the planks being fixed by a circle of stones, the original for Hobbit Hole 
..RC. *tre pren NB. No lenition.

Treales: Chs. cf. W. tref y llys (village containing the court, which is to 
say the court of the local dengi or ruler and tax collector).

Trevercraig: Scot. Carrick, cf.W. tref y craig (village of stone), also 
Trevercrageis: Ayrshire in Scotland. RC. * tref yr craic.

Triermain: Cu. Treverman c.1169, cf.W. tref y maen (village of stone). RC. 
*tref yr main.

Troloss: Scot. Lanarkshire, cf.W. tre llwst (village tail), cf. Corn. tre 
lost. RC. * tre lwst.

Trusty's Hill: Scot. This place-name refers to Tristan who was a local 
chief, viz. the legend of Tristan and Isolde.

Tulketh: Lancs. cf.W. twll coed (cave or pit wood). RC. *twl caidd.



                                                                W



Warren Burn: Nb. Warnet c.1157, cf.W. gwernydd (alder trees, or a bog or 
marsh). RC.*gwarnydd. NB. E before R plus stop becomes A.

Watermellock: Cu. Wethermelok c.1253, cf.W. gwydr moelog (green or blue 
baldness, i.e. a heath). RC. *gwydr mailoc.

Werneth Low: Chs. Wernyth c.1352, cf,W, gwernydd (alder trees). 
RC.*gwernydd.

Wharf: Yorks. A river-name, Verbeia, meaning a winding river, Weorf c.963, 
Werf c.1112, Warf c. 1155, Hwef c.1155. RC. *gwerf & *gwarf. NB. The pesent 
name is from the Norse word hvarf, which means a bend. Note also how E 
before R became A in the second spelling. This sound change is a feature of 
Cumbric.

Winister: Wst. Winster c.1170, cf.Gwensteri (white stream) in a verse by 
Taliesin. RC. *gwyn ysteri.

Winwick: Lancs. Winequic c.1170, Wynewich c.1212, cf.W. gwyn wyg (white 
village), cf.Corn. gwyn wyk. RC. gwyn wyc.



                                                                 Y

Yeavering: Nb. Adgefrin (Bede), Yever c.1242, Yevre c.1329, also Yeavering 
Bell, a nearby hill, cf. W geifr ryn (goat's hill), cf.Corn. gever bryn. RC. 
*geifr ryn. NB. G pronounced as a jod, as in Welsh.

Yanwath: near Penrith, cf.W. un (one, only, single). RC. *un wadd. (only 
ford). NB. Gwadd is a loan word from Norse vadr meaning a ford.

Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but bombarding us 
with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent Cumbric speakers 
overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on whether Cumbric was 
actually a separate language anyway, though my gut feeling is that it should 
be - I'd like it to be, but that proves nothing.

ally

"a l l y"  wrote in message 
news:3hq8rjFid08lU1@individual.net...

> Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but bombarding 
> us with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent Cumbric 
> speakers overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on whether 
> Cumbric was actually a separate language anyway, though my gut feeling is 
> that it should be - I'd like it to be, but that proves nothing.
>
> ally

The Welsh word mynydd is monydd in Cumbric, the fact that O and W remained 
unchanged in Cumbric before a nasal plus stop is proof enough that Cumbric 
was a separate language, but there are traces of grammatical and semantic 
difference as well. In addition Cumbric adopted Norwegian and Danish words, 
which indicates a mixed vocabulary. The old Norn language, mixed early 
Norwegian and Danish, cannot be reconstructed, but elements of it can be 
preserved in Reconstructed Cumbric. I am always upset by the way that the 
BBC & ITV refer to these Danish and Norwegian settlers and their 
descendents, who were farmers and traders, as Vikings and dress actors up 
will silly clothes and hats with horns sticking out of them to represent 
these settlers, while at the same time the BBC refers to the Germans who 
settled in England during the sub-Roman era as "the English" Do you honestly 
think that the folk of Jorvik use to wear hats with horns sticking out of 
them, or called themselves Vikings as they tilled the land and bartered in 
the market place? No of course not, you do not, but the fellas in the BBC & 
ITV do! I do not feel German, so if you have to be German to be English, 
then how many people in England are really English?

hawker@btinternet.com wrote:

>                                                 Introduction
> 
> 
> 
> Although many Cumbric words have survived in Scots and English examples of 
> written Cumbric take precedence. Concerning the survival of Cumbric 
> vocabulary, Mr. Whittaker in Volume Two, pages 233 to 329, in his History of 
> Manchester, has provided a list of three thousand North Country Cumbric 
> words that have entered the vocabulary of Standard English. In addition 
> Mr.Davies supplied in a paper that he contributed to The Transactions of the 
> Philological Society in 1885 another long list of North Country Cumbric 
> words that have passed into Standard English. Mr. Davies commented that many 
> low, burlesque, and obscene words in the Lancashire dialect can be traced 
> back to Cumbric. Furthermore, Mr. Garnet in Volume One, page 171, of the 
> Transaction of the Philological Society, also supplied a similar list of 
> Cumbric words. Proof of the late survival of Cumbric as a spoken language in 
> Cumbria exists in the place-name Cumwhinton, which contains the Norman 
> personal name Quinton, and which means Quinton's Valley.  In addition the 
> survival of Cumbric field-names and the presence of three Cumbric words in a 
> medieval manuscript called Leges Inter Brettos et Scottos lend further 
> support for the persistence of Cumbric. The so called Shepherd's 
> enumeration, which in fact was mainly used by knitters, must also be taken 
> into account. Cumbric arose from Prythonic, which was the ancestor of all P 
> Celtic languages. Prythonic developed into Proto-Welsh, Proto-Breton, 
> Proto-Cornish, and Proto-Cumbric. Proto-Cumbric was widely spoken throughout 
> Scotland, Northern England, and in the North Midlands. It is possible that 
> the area in which Proto-Cumbric was spoken even stretched much further 
> south. Place-name evidence reveals that Cumbric shared features in common 
> with both Welsh and Cornish, and while in some ways Cumbric was more 
> innovative than either Welsh or Cornish, certain features of Cumbric can 
> only be described as being archaic. Some place-names, such as Pennigant in 
> Scotland and Penyghent in England, have preserved elements of what may have 
> been two dialects of Cumbric, for example the morpheme -gant and -ghent are 
> derived from the Cumbric word *caint, which means a plateaux, and which was 
> variously pronounced as *cant and *cent. Some Cumbric place-names, such as 
> Larbet and Eccle Fechan, have even preserved elements of Cumbric grammar. 
> These grammatical elements indicate that Cumbric was, with a few exceptions, 
> identical to Medieval Welsh. This of course opens up the possibility of 
> reconstructing Cumbric in much the same was that Nance reconstructed 
> Kernewek, and other scholars reconstructed Cornoak. Kernewek is a 
> reconstruction of medieval Cornish, whereas Cornoak is the reconstruction of 
> Cornish as it would have been spoken just before its demise. A similar 
> division between reconstructed early and reconstructed late Cumbric can be 
> by deriving early reconstructed Cumbric from place-names, and late 
> reconstructed Cumbric from the surviving Cumbric word in Scots and North 
> Country dialect. Although paucity of vocabulary is no obstacle to the 
> reconstruction of Cumbric, for example Basic English contains a core 
> vocabulary of no more that a thousand words; it is possible to borrow Welsh 
> words, which indeed was done by Nance. In addition the edition of the Times 
> newspaper of the 3rd. January 1991 carried a report that first appeared in 
> Le Mond, according to which Lukiann Kergoat, the head of Breton and Celtic 
> Studies at the University of Rennes, and chairperson of a committee called 
> Kreizhenn ar Geriauin, intended to create twenty thousand new Breton word in 
> order to bring Breton up to date by respelling Welsh words. Northern England 
> was guest to a large number of Danish and Norwegian settlers, mostly farmers 
> and traders. Place-names such as Blennerhasset in Cumbria indicate that 
> Scandinavian words were absorbed into Cumbric, thus allowing the modern 
> words of science and technology, such as *telefision, to be adopted in 
> Reconstructed Cumbric, thus following the example of Basic English. In 
> addition many Roman laws, taxes, policing, and modes of administration are 
> recorded in the Doomsday Book as having survived in Northern England. 
> Archaeological evidence at Wharram Percy, 


Went there once and couldn't find it. Had to go back a second time!

and field and air surveys over the

> North Yorkshire Moors, reveal continuity throughout the sub-Roman period 
> without any evidence for the replacement of the native Romano-British 
> population by Anglo-Saxons. The importance of this lies in the fact that the 
> abandoned settlements and villages in the area, which arose from the 
> eviction of the population in order to create grazing land for sheep, are 
> veritable time capsules going back to the Roman occupation of Britain. The 
> smallness of numbers of Angles in the North-East of England is indicated by 
> the fact that once during a siege the Anglian population retired to 
> Bamborough Rock, which would indicate that a small number of Angles ruled 
> over a large population of Celtic peasants. The fate of these Angles after 
> the Danish settlement of Northern England is uncertain, but it is unlikely 
> that any of the Anglo-Saxons survived, at best some might have continued as 
> broken men, and others would have departed. The reconstruction of Cumbric 
> will at least restore a version of the ancient language not only of Northern 
> England, but also of Scotland. Northern England, which some authors have 
> called Brigantia, lost its last vestige of autonomy when the Council of the 
> North, which sat at York, was abolished in 1640 AC.



(Snip the placenames lists)

Why not print up that large list as a book and gain from your 
labours.........? It took me the best part of a minute to highlight it all.

In the absence of an oral tradition or a repository of literature, it 
seems daunting to try to blow the breath of life back into what amounts 
to little more than linguistic dust.


If one could establish a good reason for learning Cumbric, beyond 
understanding the origin of placenames, how and where would one begin?

Jp

hawker@btinternet.com wrote:

> "a l l y"  wrote in message 
> news:3hq8rjFid08lU1@individual.net...
> 
>>Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but bombarding 
>>us with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent Cumbric 
>>speakers overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on whether 
>>Cumbric was actually a separate language anyway, though my gut feeling is 
>>that it should be - I'd like it to be, but that proves nothing.
>>
>>ally
> 
> The Welsh word mynydd is monydd in Cumbric, the fact that O and W remained 
> unchanged in Cumbric before a nasal plus stop is proof enough that Cumbric 
> was a separate language, but there are traces of grammatical and semantic 
> difference as well. In addition Cumbric adopted Norwegian and Danish words, 
> which indicates a mixed vocabulary. The old Norn language, mixed early 
> Norwegian and Danish, cannot be reconstructed, but elements of it can be 
> preserved in Reconstructed Cumbric. I am always upset by the way that the 
> BBC & ITV refer to these Danish and Norwegian settlers and their 
> descendents, who were farmers and traders, as Vikings and dress actors up 
> will silly clothes and hats with horns sticking out of them to represent 
> these settlers, while at the same time the BBC refers to the Germans who 
> settled in England during the sub-Roman era as "the English" Do you honestly 
> think that the folk of Jorvik use to wear hats with horns sticking out of 
> them, or called themselves Vikings as they tilled the land and bartered in 
> the market place? No of course not, you do not, but the fellas in the BBC & 
> ITV do! I do not feel German, so if you have to be German to be English, 
> then how many people in England are really English? 
> 
> 

There IS a great deal of ignorance about the Danish and Norwegian 
settlers, and this common misunderstanding shows a weakness in the 
teaching of History in the United Kingdom, especially among the 
producers of historical documentaries for television.(I blame Hagar the 
Horrible.)

Vikings were traders and explorers and the name is derived from those 
activities. We sticklers for accuracy get indigestion watching some 
historical dramas, where all sorts of liberties are taken in the 
interests of art, no matter what the period.

A person wouldn't feel German, even if his or her DNA had arrived pure 
Anglo Saxon.  Actually, when the Angles and Saxons settled in the 
British Isles, there was no "Germany". What we think of as "German" 
didn't exist until the growth in power of Brandenburg & Prussia, Bavaria 
and the city states of the Holy Roman Empire throughout the 18th and 
19th century. The Anglo-Saxons were just two examples of the many 
separate tribes inhabiting that part of the continent. National itendity 
doesn't really become an issue until ten centuries after the settlement 
of England by the Germanic and Norse tribes and travellers.  The 
settlements pre-date the formation of nation states.

Jp

"hawker@btinternet.com"  wrote in message 
news:d98sl0$61u$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "a l l y"  wrote in message 
> news:3hq8rjFid08lU1@individual.net...
>> Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but bombarding 
>> us with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent Cumbric 
>> speakers overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on whether 
>> Cumbric was actually a separate language anyway, though my gut feeling is 
>> that it should be - I'd like it to be, but that proves nothing.
>>
>> ally
> The Welsh word mynydd is monydd in Cumbric, the fact that O and W remained 
> unchanged in Cumbric before a nasal plus stop is proof enough that Cumbric 
> was a separate language, but there are traces of grammatical and semantic 
> difference as well. In addition Cumbric adopted Norwegian and Danish 
> words, which indicates a mixed vocabulary. The old Norn language, mixed 
> early Norwegian and Danish, cannot be reconstructed, but elements of it 
> can be preserved in Reconstructed Cumbric. I am always upset by the way 
> that the BBC & ITV refer to these Danish and Norwegian settlers and their 
> descendents, who were farmers and traders, as Vikings and dress actors up 
> will silly clothes and hats with horns sticking out of them to represent 
> these settlers, while at the same time the BBC refers to the Germans who 
> settled in England during the sub-Roman era as "the English" Do you 
> honestly think that the folk of Jorvik use to wear hats with horns 
> sticking out of them, or called themselves Vikings as they tilled the land 
> and bartered in the market place? No of course not, you do not, but the 
> fellas in the BBC & ITV do! I do not feel German, so if you have to be 
> German to be English, then how many people in England are really English?

Well everyone in Britain is of mixed-race originally, and many English 
people have both Scandinavian and Germanic origins: this doesn't stop them 
being English *now*. Many people who consider themselves fully British had 
parents from Poland or Pakistan or Italy just 2 or 3 generations back, but 
they still feel completely British. This is the beauty of our little island, 
and why we have always flourished and survived. It's the introduction of new 
blood; new DNA.

I'm a Scot with ancestors from both the highlands and the lowlands. Some of 
them probably spoke Scottish or Irish Gaelic at one time; others may well 
have spoken Cumbric or Welsh, while some were probably speakers of Inglis as 
it was then known.

It's a shame about the modern misapprehension of historical dress and 
characteristics, but unfortunately we do get it wrong, and we always will. 
I'm still hugely irritated by the enormous amount of historical inaccuracy 
in films like 'Braveheart', for instance, but the result of something like 
that is that many people took a renewed interest in Scottish history which 
can't be a bad thing in the long run. Let's face it: a warlike Viking, 
complete with horny helmet, raping and pillaging his way along the British 
coastline, is much more exciting than a stolid Scandinavian farmer. Which 
costume would your kids rather dress up in?

History is what we make it. Our view of the past is different from our 
parents', and our children's will be different again. Different viewpoints; 
different prejudices... unless someone invents a time machine we'll never 
know the truth, and even then, the presence of the time traveller could 
change the very history she went to investigate.

ally

a l l y wrote:
(large snip of interesting stuff)



> It's a shame about the modern misapprehension of historical dress and 
> characteristics, but unfortunately we do get it wrong, and we always will. 
> I'm still hugely irritated by the enormous amount of historical inaccuracy 
> in films like 'Braveheart', for instance, but the result of something like 
> that is that many people took a renewed interest in Scottish history which 
> can't be a bad thing in the long run. Let's face it: a warlike Viking, 
> complete with horny helmet, raping and pillaging his way along the British 
> coastline, is much more exciting than a stolid Scandinavian farmer. Which 
> costume would your kids rather dress up in?


http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/hagar/about.htm



> 
> History is what we make it. Our view of the past is different from our 
> parents', and our children's will be different again. Different viewpoints; 
> different prejudices... unless someone invents a time machine we'll never 
> know the truth, and even then, the presence of the time traveller could 
> change the very history she went to investigate.



History is written by the victors. The modern study of the subject 
attempts to encourage young people to investigate primary sources of 
information and to access as much contemporary documentation as 
possible. "Popular belief" is quite often not the truth.

Jp

"Jpinny"  wrote in message 
news:ItTte.2696$ik5.543@fe12.lga...

> hawker@btinternet.com wrote:
>> "a l l y"  wrote in message 
>> news:3hq8rjFid08lU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but bombarding 
>>>us with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent Cumbric 
>>>speakers overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on whether 
>>>Cumbric was actually a separate language anyway, though my gut feeling is 
>>>that it should be - I'd like it to be, but that proves nothing.
>>>
>>>ally
>>
>> The Welsh word mynydd is monydd in Cumbric, the fact that O and W 
>> remained unchanged in Cumbric before a nasal plus stop is proof enough 
>> that Cumbric was a separate language, but there are traces of grammatical 
>> and semantic difference as well. In addition Cumbric adopted Norwegian 
>> and Danish words, which indicates a mixed vocabulary. The old Norn 
>> language, mixed early Norwegian and Danish, cannot be reconstructed, but 
>> elements of it can be preserved in Reconstructed Cumbric. I am always 
>> upset by the way that the BBC & ITV refer to these Danish and Norwegian 
>> settlers and their descendents, who were farmers and traders, as Vikings 
>> and dress actors up will silly clothes and hats with horns sticking out 
>> of them to represent these settlers, while at the same time the BBC 
>> refers to the Germans who settled in England during the sub-Roman era as 
>> "the English" Do you honestly think that the folk of Jorvik use to wear 
>> hats with horns sticking out of them, or called themselves Vikings as 
>> they tilled the land and bartered in the market place? No of course not, 
>> you do not, but the fellas in the BBC & ITV do! I do not feel German, so 
>> if you have to be German to be English, then how many people in England 
>> are really English?
> There IS a great deal of ignorance about the Danish and Norwegian 
> settlers, and this common misunderstanding shows a weakness in the 
> teaching of History in the United Kingdom, especially among the producers 
> of historical documentaries for television.(I blame Hagar the Horrible.)


Hagar is a Welsh word, it means horrible ot terrible.

>
> Vikings were traders and explorers and the name is derived from those 
> activities. We sticklers for accuracy get indigestion watching some 
> historical dramas, where all sorts of liberties are taken in the interests 
> of art, no matter what the period.


Sorry to disagree, vikings were pirates, it is like calling the men of the 
Afro-Caribbean community "drug dealers" just because a small minority of 
them deal in drugs, as indeed do some white anglo-saxon protestants. The 
Scandinvian settlers that you make mention of were repectable people.

>
> A person wouldn't feel German, even if his or her DNA had arrived pure 
> Anglo Saxon.  Actually, when the Angles and Saxons settled in the British 
> Isles, there was no "Germany".


Germany was called Germania in ancient times. The people of Germania or 
Germany had a strong national identity, just as the Gauls did. The Germans 
is England, i.e. Anglo-Saxons (the Jutes are always excluded for some 
reason, it should be Anglo-Saxon-Jutes) felt a strong kinship with the 
Germans in Germania, if you do not believe me then read about the German 
Christian missionaries who went to Germany from what we now call England.

What we think of as "German"

> didn't exist until the growth in power of Brandenburg & Prussia, Bavaria 
> and the city states of the Holy Roman Empire throughout the 18th and 19th 
> century. The Anglo-Saxons were just two examples of the many separate 
> tribes inhabiting that part of the continent. National itendity doesn't 
> really become an issue until ten centuries after the settlement of England 
> by the Germanic and Norse tribes and travellers.  The settlements pre-date 
> the formation of nation states.
>
> Jp 

"a l l y"  wrote in message 
news:3hqkggFii3tgU1@individual.net...

>
> "hawker@btinternet.com"  wrote in message 
> news:d98sl0$61u$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>> "a l l y"  wrote in message 
>> news:3hq8rjFid08lU1@individual.net...
>>> Really fascinating stuff - it *is* Welsh Dave, isn't it? - but 
>>> bombarding us with 43 kb of info isn't going to turn us all into fluent 
>>> Cumbric speakers overnight. Or ever, actually. The jury's still out on 
>>> whether Cumbric was actually a separate language anyway, though my gut 
>>> feeling is that it should be - I'd like it to be, but that proves 
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> ally
>> The Welsh word mynydd is monydd in Cumbric, the fact that O and W 
>> remained unchanged in Cumbric before a nasal plus stop is proof enough 
>> that Cumbric was a separate language, but there are traces of grammatical 
>> and semantic difference as well. In addition Cumbric adopted Norwegian 
>> and Danish words, which indicates a mixed vocabulary. The old Norn 
>> language, mixed early Norwegian and Danish, cannot be reconstructed, but 
>> elements of it can be preserved in Reconstructed Cumbric. I am always 
>> upset by the way that the BBC & ITV refer to these Danish and Norwegian 
>> settlers and their descendents, who were farmers and traders, as Vikings 
>> and dress actors up will silly clothes and hats with horns sticking out 
>> of them to represent these settlers, while at the same time the BBC 
>> refers to the Germans who settled in England during the sub-Roman era as 
>> "the English" Do you honestly think that the folk of Jorvik use to wear 
>> hats with horns sticking out of them, or called themselves Vikings as 
>> they tilled the land and bartered in the market place? No of course not, 
>> you do not, but the fellas in the BBC & ITV do! I do not feel German, so 
>> if you have to be German to be English, then how many people in England 
>> are really English?
> Well everyone in Britain is of mixed-race originally, and many English 
> people have both Scandinavian and Germanic origins: this doesn't stop them 
> being English *now*. Many people who consider themselves fully British had 
> parents from Poland or Pakistan or Italy just 2 or 3 generations back, but 
> they still feel completely British. This is the beauty of our little 
> island, and why we have always flourished and survived. It's the 
> introduction of new blood; new DNA.
>
> I'm a Scot with ancestors from both the highlands and the lowlands. Some 
> of them probably spoke Scottish or Irish Gaelic at one time; others may 
> well have spoken Cumbric or Welsh, while some were probably speakers of 
> Inglis as it was then known.
>
> It's a shame about the modern misapprehension of historical dress and 
> characteristics, but unfortunately we do get it wrong, and we always will. 
> I'm still hugely irritated by the enormous amount of historical inaccuracy 
> in films like 'Braveheart', for instance, but the result of something like 
> that is that many people took a renewed interest in Scottish history which 
> can't be a bad thing in the long run. Let's face it: a warlike Viking, 
> complete with horny helmet, raping and pillaging his way along the British 
> coastline, is much more exciting than a stolid Scandinavian farmer. Which 
> costume would your kids rather dress up in?


And also a Muslim terrorist ready to blow himself up in an English 
supermarket or at a football match is much more exciting than a Muslim 
shopkeeper, so come on BBC/ITV lets portray all Muslims as potential 
terrorist murderers just for the sake of excitement and increased ratings.

>
> History is what we make it. Our view of the past is different from our 
> parents', and our children's will be different again. Different 
> viewpoints; different prejudices... unless someone invents a time machine 
> we'll never know the truth, and even then, the presence of the time 
> traveller could change the very history she went to investigate.
>
> ally


We do have time machines, they are called archeological digs.

>
> 

"Jpinny"  wrote in message 
news:gxVte.2939$ik5.651@fe12.lga...

>a l l y wrote:
> (large snip of interesting stuff)
>
>
>> It's a shame about the modern misapprehension of historical dress and 
>> characteristics, but unfortunately we do get it wrong, and we always 
>> will. I'm still hugely irritated by the enormous amount of historical 
>> inaccuracy in films like 'Braveheart', for instance, but the result of 
>> something like that is that many people took a renewed interest in 
>> Scottish history which can't be a bad thing in the long run. Let's face 
>> it: a warlike Viking, complete with horny helmet, raping and pillaging 
>> his way along the British coastline, is much more exciting than a stolid 
>> Scandinavian farmer. Which costume would your kids rather dress up in?
>
> http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/hagar/about.htm
>
>
>>
>> History is what we make it. Our view of the past is different from our 
>> parents', and our children's will be different again. Different 
>> viewpoints; different prejudices... unless someone invents a time machine 
>> we'll never know the truth, and even then, the presence of the time 
>> traveller could change the very history she went to investigate.
>
>
> History is written by the victors. The modern study of the subject 
> attempts to encourage young people to investigate primary sources of 
> information and to access as much contemporary documentation as possible. 
> "Popular belief" is quite often not the truth.
>
> Jp


History was written by the victors, yes indeed, but now history has to be 
squared with archaeology, thank goodness.

"Jpinny"  wrote in message 
news:lYSte.2693$ik5.1191@fe12.lga...

> hawker@btinternet.com wrote:
>>                                                 Introduction
>>
>>
>>
>> Although many Cumbric words have survived in Scots and English examples 
>> of written Cumbric take precedence. Concerning the survival of Cumbric 
>> vocabulary, Mr. Whittaker in Volume Two, pages 233 to 329, in his History 
>> of Manchester, has provided a list of three thousand North Country 
>> Cumbric words that have entered the vocabulary of Standard English. In 
>> addition Mr.Davies supplied in a paper that he contributed to The 
>> Transactions of the Philological Society in 1885 another long list of 
>> North Country Cumbric words that have passed into Standard English. Mr. 
>> Davies commented that many low, burlesque, and obscene words in the 
>> Lancashire dialect can be traced back to Cumbric. Furthermore, Mr. Garnet 
>> in Volume One, page 171, of the Transaction of the Philological Society, 
>> also supplied a similar list of Cumbric words. Proof of the late survival 
>> of Cumbric as a spoken language in Cumbria exists in the place-name 
>> Cumwhinton, which contains the Norman personal name Quinton, and which 
>> means Quinton's Valley.  In addition the survival of Cumbric field-names 
>> and the presence of three Cumbric words in a medieval manuscript called 
>> Leges Inter Brettos et Scottos lend further support for the persistence 
>> of Cumbric. The so called Shepherd's enumeration, which in fact was 
>> mainly used by knitters, must also be taken into account. Cumbric arose 
>> from Prythonic, which was the ancestor of all P Celtic languages. 
>> Prythonic developed into Proto-Welsh, Proto-Breton, Proto-Cornish, and 
>> Proto-Cumbric. Proto-Cumbric was widely spoken throughout Scotland, 
>> Northern England, and in the North Midlands. It is possible that the area 
>> in which Proto-Cumbric was spoken even stretched much further south. 
>> Place-name evidence reveals that Cumbric shared features in common with 
>> both Welsh and Cornish, and while in some ways Cumbric was more 
>> innovative than either Welsh or Cornish, certain features of Cumbric can 
>> only be described as being archaic. Some place-names, such as Pennigant 
>> in Scotland and Penyghent in England, have preserved elements of what may 
>> have been two dialects of Cumbric, for example the morpheme -gant 
>> and -ghent are derived from the Cumbric word *caint, which means a 
>> plateaux, and which was variously pronounced as *cant and *cent. Some 
>> Cumbric place-names, such as Larbet and Eccle Fechan, have even preserved 
>> elements of Cumbric grammar. These grammatical elements indicate that 
>> Cumbric was, with a few exceptions, identical to Medieval Welsh. This of 
>> course opens up the possibility of reconstructing Cumbric in much the 
>> same was that Nance reconstructed Kernewek, and other scholars 
>> reconstructed Cornoak. Kernewek is a reconstruction of medieval Cornish, 
>> whereas Cornoak is the reconstruction of Cornish as it would have been 
>> spoken just before its demise. A similar division between reconstructed 
>> early and reconstructed late Cumbric can be by deriving early 
>> reconstructed Cumbric from place-names, and late reconstructed Cumbric 
>> from the surviving Cumbric word in Scots and North Country dialect. 
>> Although paucity of vocabulary is no obstacle to the reconstruction of 
>> Cumbric, for example Basic English contains a core vocabulary of no more 
>> that a thousand words; it is possible to borrow Welsh words, which indeed 
>> was done by Nance. In addition the edition of the Times newspaper of the 
>> 3rd. January 1991 carried a report that first appeared in Le Mond, 
>> according to which Lukiann Kergoat, the head of Breton and Celtic Studies 
>> at the University of Rennes, and chairperson of a committee called 
>> Kreizhenn ar Geriauin, intended to create twenty thousand new Breton word 
>> in order to bring Breton up to date by respelling Welsh words. Northern 
>> England was guest to a large number of Danish and Norwegian settlers, 
>> mostly farmers and traders. Place-names such as Blennerhasset in Cumbria 
>> indicate that Scandinavian words were absorbed into Cumbric, thus 
>> allowing the modern words of science and technology, such as *telefision, 
>> to be adopted in Reconstructed Cumbric, thus following the example of 
>> Basic English. In addition many Roman laws, taxes, policing, and modes of 
>> administration are recorded in the Doomsday Book as having survived in 
>> Northern England. Archaeological evidence at Wharram Percy,
>
> Went there once and couldn't find it. Had to go back a second time!


Obviously if you were visiting an archeological sight you should have dug 
around a bit! Actually there used to be a church there, but someone stole 
the lead from the roof!

>
> and field and air surveys over the
>> North Yorkshire Moors, reveal continuity throughout the sub-Roman period 
>> without any evidence for the replacement of the native Romano-British 
>> population by Anglo-Saxons. The importance of this lies in the fact that 
>> the abandoned settlements and villages in the area, which arose from the 
>> eviction of the population in order to create grazing land for sheep, are 
>> veritable time capsules going back to the Roman occupation of Britain. 
>> The smallness of numbers of Angles in the North-East of England is 
>> indicated by the fact that once during a siege the Anglian population 
>> retired to Bamborough Rock, which would indicate that a small number of 
>> Angles ruled over a large population of Celtic peasants. The fate of 
>> these Angles after the Danish settlement of Northern England is 
>> uncertain, but it is unlikely that any of the Anglo-Saxons survived, at 
>> best some might have continued as broken men, and others would have 
>> departed. The reconstruction of Cumbric will at least restore a version 
>> of the ancient language not only of Northern England, but also of 
>> Scotland. Northern England, which some authors have called Brigantia, 
>> lost its last vestige of autonomy when the Council of the North, which 
>> sat at York, was abolished in 1640 AC.
>
>
> (Snip the placenames lists)
>
> Why not print up that large list as a book and gain from your 
> labours.........? It took me the best part of a minute to highlight it 
> all.
>
> In the absence of an oral tradition or a repository of literature, it 
> seems daunting to try to blow the breath of life back into what amounts to 
> little more than linguistic dust.


There are literally hundred of Cumbric and Norn words in the English 
language, to say nothing of Scots and dialect words.We use Cumbric words 
every day in our speech and in written communications.

>
>
> If one could establish a good reason for learning Cumbric, beyond 
> understanding the origin of placenames, how and where would one begin?


A good enough reason would be to assert that in North Britain we are 
definitely not Anglo-Saxons. Have you heard of de Gobineau's 'The Inequality 
of the Races', it is the bible of Anglo-Saxonists. If people in the Midlands 
and South of England want to think of themselves as members of the white 
master race then good luck to them, but I do not want to think like that, I 
am just an ordinary bloke, not an ubermensch. The whole thing about 
Anglo-Saxons is pure racist nonesense.

>
> Jp 

Why do you want to speak like an idiot?
..
--------------------------------------
This message was brought to you by:

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Fish.
The Gold Fish Rights and Liberation Movement.
Divine Order of Druidic BullShitters
--------------------------------------

I have an overwhelming need to share this with you all. Its about what
I hate most about newsgroups . . . . control freaks like netnannies
and net cops and here is why.

They are  like when a little bit of shite gets stuck just inside yer
rectum not far enough down that you can squeeze it either in or out.
It just lies there, you feel it but can do nought about it. It just
sits there and irritates the hell out of you. The only effect is the
production of irritation nothing else. That is really what they are
like. They achieve nothing else. The trolls are still there!! 

Shite in yer rectum will eventually be resolved. Netnannies and
netcops are always there. The name and individual may change but there
is always some shit baiting and upsetting harmless trolls. The effect
is to give the troll a mission in life. Look at the uk.local hierarchy
at the moment, yorkshire, birmingham and essx in particular. Ruined
for the average poster. The majority of groups are empty, except for
troll droppings, spam and the odd genuine post!!! 

What amazes me is that some of the netnannies not only boast about
reporting contributors to their ISP but attempt to get other people
to do the same. This gives the troll an extra boast of "adrenaline".
Its all beyond me! 

Maybe I am too sensitive a guy.

Thanks for your interest.

Why not, it is no worse than wearing a hat with cow's horns stuck to it?
"Heed Haddy" <office_of_head_haddock@surefish.false.co.uk > wrote in message 
news:lb0mb1dtu4l08j14j3v59im6rg0mb2hjjk@4ax.com...

> Why do you want to speak like an idiot?
> .
> --------------------------------------
> This message was brought to you by:
>
> The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Fish.
> The Gold Fish Rights and Liberation Movement.
> Divine Order of Druidic BullShitters
> -------------------------------------- 

I think that this is an interesting letter. The BBC/ITV, etc., believe they 
have the right to insult people from Northern England by calling them 
Vikings, etc., and by depicting them as wearing funny hats with cows horns 
stuck to them, so people should report the BBC/ITV.

"Rab"  wrote in message 
news:0sfnb1lranpuk30jaiiicvnd4lrsbncuq5@4ax.com...

>I have an overwhelming need to share this with you all. Its about what
> I hate most about newsgroups . . . . control freaks like netnannies
> and net cops and here is why.
>
> They are  like when a little bit of shite gets stuck just inside yer
> rectum not far enough down that you can squeeze it either in or out.
> It just lies there, you feel it but can do nought about it. It just
> sits there and irritates the hell out of you. The only effect is the
> production of irritation nothing else. That is really what they are
> like. They achieve nothing else. The trolls are still there!!
>
> Shite in yer rectum will eventually be resolved. Netnannies and
> netcops are always there. The name and individual may change but there
> is always some shit baiting and upsetting harmless trolls. The effect
> is to give the troll a mission in life. Look at the uk.local hierarchy
> at the moment, yorkshire, birmingham and essx in particular. Ruined
> for the average poster. The majority of groups are empty, except for
> troll droppings, spam and the odd genuine post!!!
>
> What amazes me is that some of the netnannies not only boast about
> reporting contributors to their ISP but attempt to get other people
> to do the same. This gives the troll an extra boast of "adrenaline".
> Its all beyond me!
>
> Maybe I am too sensitive a guy.
>
> Thanks for your interest.