The thread about the Prince of Wales, Foxfield mentions voting in CAMRA 
branches and asks how so small numbers can sway a vote.
I was wondering just how many members of a branch vote or have anything to 
do with their branch.

Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where to 
go.
I found out about several local beer festivals by chance some years ago and 
together with a gaggle of mates joined CAMRA at a festival as we get into 
festival cheaper by being members. I don't know anything about the branch, 
and to be honest I'm not overly interested ! Is this wrong ?

In article <d93d8b$u6f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:

> Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where
> to go.


Have a look in the pages of What's Brewing. Turn inside from the back a
couple of pages and you will find a double page spread headed CAMRA
meetings. Sorted alphabetically by region, and then sub-sorted by branch
name.
Turn up at a meeting and say hello - things just progress from there.

Coventry have had a "tradition" of inviting new members with a mailout
issued just after the beer festival. This is specifically aimed at getting
the new members involved and introducing them to the existing active
members.

-- 
Steve Pampling

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:18:27 +0100, "Manky Badger"
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


>The thread about the Prince of Wales, Foxfield mentions voting in CAMRA 
>branches and asks how so small numbers can sway a vote.
>I was wondering just how many members of a branch vote or have anything to 
>do with their branch.
>
>Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where to 
>go.
>I found out about several local beer festivals by chance some years ago and 
>together with a gaggle of mates joined CAMRA at a festival as we get into 
>festival cheaper by being members. I don't know anything about the branch, 
>and to be honest I'm not overly interested ! Is this wrong ?


CAMRA membership can be anything you want it to be. Some people enjoy
going to branch meetings in pubs, arguing about beer related issues
etc. Others just pay their subs and read Wots Bruin. 

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:18:27 +0100, "Manky Badger"
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


>The thread about the Prince of Wales, Foxfield mentions voting in CAMRA 
>branches and asks how so small numbers can sway a vote.
>I was wondering just how many members of a branch vote or have anything to 
>do with their branch.
>
>Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where to 
>go.
>I found out about several local beer festivals by chance some years ago and 
>together with a gaggle of mates joined CAMRA at a festival as we get into 
>festival cheaper by being members. I don't know anything about the branch, 
>and to be honest I'm not overly interested ! Is this wrong ?
> 

Personally I find being an active branch member to be immensely
rewarding . It's a great eye opener as you see the pub and brewing
trades from a totally different viewpoint. It's very pleasant getting
to know people in different localities , to join in activities and so
on.

>

"Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
news:4d7d70d979steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article <d93d8b$u6f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>> Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where
>> to go.
>
> Have a look in the pages of What's Brewing. Turn inside from the back a
> couple of pages and you will find a double page spread headed CAMRA
> meetings. Sorted alphabetically by region, and then sub-sorted by branch
> name.
> Turn up at a meeting and say hello - things just progress from there.
>
> Coventry have had a "tradition" of inviting new members with a mailout
> issued just after the beer festival. This is specifically aimed at getting
> the new members involved and introducing them to the existing active
> members.


But why would I want to ?

Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems that it's 
more of a local social club ?

Manky Badger wrote:


>
> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
> Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems that
> it's more of a local social club ?


Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a member?

-- 

Brett

Transposing your posts somewhat....

Manky Badger wrote in message # d93d8b$u6f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk (your 
first post)

>> I was wondering just how many members of a branch vote or have anything to 
>> do with their branch. [1]
>> 
>> Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know where to 
>> go. [2]





and, in message # d974ck$si4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk (your second post):

>>> Have a look in the pages of What's Brewing. Turn inside from the back a
>>> couple of pages and you will find a double page spread headed CAMRA
>>> meetings. Sorted alphabetically by region, and then sub-sorted by branch
>>> name.
>>> Turn up at a meeting and say hello - things just progress from there.
>>>
>>> Coventry have had a "tradition" of inviting new members with a mailout
>>> issued just after the beer festival. This is specifically aimed at getting
>>> the new members involved and introducing them to the existing active
>>> members.
> 
> 
> But why would I want to ? [3]



Question [3] Would be answered by your question [1].
Whilst Steven's reply gives you the means to resolve question [1] and 
speculation [2].
But fear not, no-one will force you to attend meetings and vote, it's up 
to you.

KeithS,

In article <d974ck$si4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Steven Pampling"  wrote in message
> news:4d7d70d979steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...
> > In article <d93d8b$u6f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> > <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
> >> Certainly I've never been to a branch meeting - wouldn't even know
> >> where to go.
> >
> > Have a look in the pages of What's Brewing. Turn inside from the back
> > a couple of pages and you will find a double page spread headed CAMRA
> > meetings. Sorted alphabetically by region, and then sub-sorted by
> > branch name. Turn up at a meeting and say hello - things just progress
> > from there.
> >
> > Coventry have had a "tradition" of inviting new members with a mailout
> > issued just after the beer festival. This is specifically aimed at
> > getting the new members involved and introducing them to the existing
> > active members.

> But why would I want to ?


You might want to be involved in the campaigns the local branch do, or in
the case of some branches you might be interested in firing them up to do
some active campaigning.


> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place. Rather than
> joining what I thought was a national body, it seems that it's more of
> a local social club ? 


Both.

I don't denigrate the many members who turn up at meetings simply as a
social fixture, but that is probably because I spent all my time as local
chairman pushing the social attendees to do "just a little bit" and
succeeding in getting them to do far more.

In some cases people attend national events and never attend the local
branch events. Take you pick, one, the other, both or none, even just being
a member and paying the fee you fill a function whether you know it or not.
Mind you, if you want to give up a little of your time in August to work at
a national event I can assure you of a friendly welcome. Catch me on a day
outside the normal opening and I'll buy you a pint down Warwick road
(choice of three easy reach pubs with decent beer)

-- 
Steve Pampling

"Brett..."  wrote in message 
news:42b71989$0$2029$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

> Manky Badger wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
>> Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems that
>> it's more of a local social club ?
>
> Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a member?


Perhaps the chap selling membership might have explained a bit better what 
it was all about ?

In article <d97e75$ujd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Brett..."  wrote in message
> news:42b71989$0$2029$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> > Manky Badger wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
> >> Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems
> >> that it's more of a local social club ?
> >
> > Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a
> > member?

> Perhaps the chap selling membership might have explained a bit
> better what it was all about ? 


Curious: what exactly did you think you were getting for joining and
has it lived up to your expectations?

-- 
Gertie. 

Award-winning bog cleaner, Latin scholar and beer festival organiser.
Veni, vidi, Vici iiabui et cervaca, or summat like that 
reply-to address works but not to html mail, hotmail or aol addresses


OK, so what's the speed of dark?

Manky Badger wrote:

> "Brett..."  wrote in message
> news:42b71989$0$2029$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> Manky Badger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
>>> Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems
>>> that it's more of a local social club ?
>>
>> Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a
>> member?
>
> Perhaps the chap selling membership might have explained a bit better
> what it was all about ?


As others have explained, "it" isn't any one thing. Only you know what you 
want to get out of being a member.

-- 

Brett

In article <d97e75$ujd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Brett..."  wrote in message
> news:42b71989$0$2029$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> > Manky Badger wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place. Rather
> >> than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems that it's
> >> more of a local social club ?
> >
> > Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a member?

> Perhaps the chap selling membership might have explained a bit better
> what it was all about ?


Possibly, but then he was probably just a simple working member rather than
a member of the National Executive or a paid staff member so he may not
have had as much insight as you might be expecting.

Ask and ye shall receive. If I can't answer directly then I can point you
to people who can.

-- 
Steve Pampling

"gertie@grumbles"  wrote in message 
news:4d7e5f6fb9gertie@grumbles.freeserve.co.uk...

> In article <d97e75$ujd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>
>> "Brett..."  wrote in message
>> news:42b71989$0$2029$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> > Manky Badger wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the first place.
>> >> Rather than joining what I thought was a national body, it seems
>> >> that it's more of a local social club ?
>> >
>> > Perhaps you should explain what you want to get out of being a
>> > member?
>
>> Perhaps the chap selling membership might have explained a bit
>> better what it was all about ?
>
> Curious: what exactly did you think you were getting for joining and
> has it lived up to your expectations?


I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned professionally for 
decent beer.

In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "gertie@grumbles"  wrote in message
> news:4d7e5f6fb9gertie@grumbles.freeserve.co.uk...

> > Curious: what exactly did you think you were getting for joining and
> > has it lived up to your expectations?

> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned professionally
> for decent beer. 


Amateurs tend to things better - because they care. Professional tends to
mean paid and not really caring.
Aside from that, yes we do campaign - and better than anyone else on the
subject.

-- 
Steve Pampling

In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Manky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned professionally
> for decent beer. 


You are. The model of a national body with local branches is quite common:
think Mencap, Mind, Red Cross, St John Ambulance... all of these are
national or multi-national bodies that campaign professionally for their
particular cause, but with local activists who campaign at local levels and
are organised in local branches. What's the problem?

-- 
Christine Ramsbottom

In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "gertie@grumbles"  wrote in
> message news:4d7e5f6fb9gertie@grumbles.freeserve.co.uk...

> >
> > Curious: what exactly did you think you were getting for joining
> > and has it lived up to your expectations?

> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned
> professionally for decent beer. 



You didn't answer the second part - has it lived up to your
expectations?

??

-- 
Gertie. 

Award-winning bog cleaner, Latin scholar and beer festival organiser.
Veni, vidi, Vici iiabui et cervaca, or summat like that 
reply-to address works but not to html mail, hotmail or aol addresses


The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

"gertie@grumbles"  wrote in message 
news:4d7eef1ecfgertie@grumbles.freeserve.co.uk...

> In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>
>> "gertie@grumbles"  wrote in
>> message news:4d7e5f6fb9gertie@grumbles.freeserve.co.uk...
>
>> >
>> > Curious: what exactly did you think you were getting for joining
>> > and has it lived up to your expectations?
>
>> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned
>> professionally for decent beer.
>
>
> You didn't answer the second part - has it lived up to your
> expectations?
>

Don't really know what I was expecting !

"Christine"  wrote in message 
news:4d7ee51dddchris.ramsbottom@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>   Manky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>
>> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned professionally
>> for decent beer.
>
> You are. The model of a national body with local branches is quite common:
> think Mencap, Mind, Red Cross, St John Ambulance... all of these are
> national or multi-national bodies that campaign professionally for their
> particular cause, but with local activists who campaign at local levels 
> and
> are organised in local branches. What's the problem?


The "problem" is that I read various posts on this ng that imply that as a 
CAMRA member I should be attending various meetings in which I have no 
interest.

Manky Badger wrote:

> "Christine"  wrote in message
> news:4d7ee51dddchris.ramsbottom@dsl.pipex.com...
>> In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>>   Manky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned
>>> professionally for decent beer.
>>
>> You are. The model of a national body with local branches is quite
>> common: think Mencap, Mind, Red Cross, St John Ambulance... all of
>> these are national or multi-national bodies that campaign
>> professionally for their particular cause, but with local activists
>> who campaign at local levels and
>> are organised in local branches. What's the problem?
>
> The "problem" is that I read various posts on this ng that imply that
> as a CAMRA member I should be attending various meetings in which I
> have no interest.


I've never read any such postings but at the end of the day, if you want to 
become active, become active. If you want to be inactive, be inactive.

If you want to be active but are not interested in attending a branch 
meeting then consider...
Working at a beer festival
Writing articles for (or even volunteering to edit) a local newsletter
Being a branch webmaster.
Completing an NBSS card evertime you visit a pub
Attend branch social events
....


-- 

Brett

In article <d9eprd$gnb$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Christine"  wrote in message
> news:4d7ee51dddchris.ramsbottom@dsl.pipex.com...
> > In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> >   <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
> >
> >> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned
> >> professionally for decent beer.
> >
> > You are. The model of a national body with local branches is quite
> > common: think Mencap, Mind, Red Cross, St John Ambulance... all of
> > these are national or multi-national bodies that campaign
> > professionally for their particular cause, but with local activists
> > who campaign at local levels and are organised in local branches.
> > What's the problem?

> The "problem" is that I read various posts on this ng that imply that as
> a CAMRA member I should be attending various meetings in which I have
> no interest. 


There are a multitude of options, but I'd say that you would probably be
best considering the top three or four.[1]

Option 1. Attend and discover that it isn't all business but actually a mix
and discover you like it.

Option 2. Attend and discover you don't like the meetings and don't
continue.

Option 3. Don't attend any meetings and wonder what happens etc.

Option 4. As option 3 but attend/work at national events.

Option 5. Just use the membership to get cheaper/free entry into festivals.

[1] Of course ultimately you should do what *you* specifically want.

-- 
Steve Pampling

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:00:32 +0100, Manky Badger wrote:

> 
> The "problem" is that I read various posts on this ng that imply that as a 
> CAMRA member I should be attending various meetings in which I have no 
> interest.


This ng is for anyone who's interested in real ale.  Whether or not you're
in CAMRA is irrelevant.  

You've got OTOH a very big organisation intrested in real ale, and a ng for
real ale, so often there's going to be an overlap, but that's just
accidental.  If you want to come here and just talk about beer, then that's
the main thing.  That's all that anyone wants to do.  And if the CAMRA
members amongst us do mention CAMRA in passing, it;s not that we're trying
to dragoon you into joining or anything.

Personally speaking, I'm very glad I joined CAMRA.  But this ng has nothing
to do with CAMRA per se.
-- 
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster  http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Libeskind takes metaphors from fractal mathematics, crystalline
geology and so on, and realises them with zigzags, skewed spaces 
and narrow slashes of glazing and industrial materials - even
though the most intense experience its users will ever confront 
will be someone's failure to top up the coffee machine.

    Keith Miller

In article , loobyloo
 wrote:

> You've got OTOH a very big organisation intrested in real ale, and a ng
> for real ale, so often there's going to be an overlap, but that's just
> accidental.  If you want to come here and just talk about beer, then
> that's the main thing.  That's all that anyone wants to do.  And if the
> CAMRA members amongst us do mention CAMRA in passing, it;s not that
> we're trying to dragoon you into joining or anything.


Unless I missed something that point has already been passed.
MB's  real issue is whether to attend meetings/get involved or not.

As with any member - their choice alone.

I will take one willing and enthusiastic volunteer over a hundred
conscripts.

-- 
Steve Pampling

In article <d9eprd$gnb$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Manky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Christine"  wrote in message 
> news:4d7ee51dddchris.ramsbottom@dsl.pipex.com...
> > In article <d9a5b9$urf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> >   Manky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
> >
> >> I thought I was joining a national body that campaigned
> >> professionally for decent beer.
> >
> > You are. The model of a national body with local branches is quite
> > common: think Mencap, Mind, Red Cross, St John Ambulance... all of
> > these are national or multi-national bodies that campaign
> > professionally for their particular cause, but with local activists
> > who campaign at local levels and are organised in local branches.
> > What's the problem?

> The "problem" is that I read various posts on this ng that imply that as
> a CAMRA member I should be attending various meetings in which I have
> no interest. 


Ah now that's different. If you want to effectively "campaign for real ale"
then that's often done at local, ie. branch level. Many of the so-called
"national" campaigns are often organised at local level. Camra has espoused
the "think global, act local" philosophy since its inception.

I'm not sure how you know you have no interest in something you've no
experience of!

-- 
Christine Ramsbottom

"Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
news:4d7fbeba59steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article , loobyloo
>  wrote:
>> You've got OTOH a very big organisation intrested in real ale, and a ng
>> for real ale, so often there's going to be an overlap, but that's just
>> accidental.  If you want to come here and just talk about beer, then
>> that's the main thing.  That's all that anyone wants to do.  And if the
>> CAMRA members amongst us do mention CAMRA in passing, it;s not that
>> we're trying to dragoon you into joining or anything.
>
> Unless I missed something that point has already been passed.
> MB's  real issue is whether to attend meetings/get involved or not.
>
> As with any member - their choice alone.


But when you read posts (in for example the thread about Prince of Wales, 
Foxfield and the comments about how few branch members vote) one does feel 
somewhat pressured.

In article <d9hrpt$ua4$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
<spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:


> "Steven Pampling"  wrote in message
> news:4d7fbeba59steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> > Unless I missed something that point has already been passed. MB's
> > real issue is whether to attend meetings/get involved or not.
> >
> > As with any member - their choice alone.

> But when you read posts (in for example the thread about Prince of
> Wales, Foxfield and the comments about how few branch members vote) one
> does feel somewhat pressured. 


I can see that, and I think the pressure is self defeating.
People need encouragement to do voluntary work, not pressure.

Meanwhile the question is what do you want out of CAMRA?
No, that isn't one I expect you to answer me on, I expect you to pause and
give yourself an answer after a fair bit of consideration.

-- 
Steve Pampling

"Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
news:4d80387f88steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article <d9hrpt$ua4$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Manky Badger
> <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote:
>
>> "Steven Pampling"  wrote in message
>> news:4d7fbeba59steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...
>
>> > Unless I missed something that point has already been passed. MB's
>> > real issue is whether to attend meetings/get involved or not.
>> >
>> > As with any member - their choice alone.
>
>> But when you read posts (in for example the thread about Prince of
>> Wales, Foxfield and the comments about how few branch members vote) one
>> does feel somewhat pressured.
>
> I can see that, and I think the pressure is self defeating.
> People need encouragement to do voluntary work, not pressure.
>
> Meanwhile the question is what do you want out of CAMRA?
> No, that isn't one I expect you to answer me on, I expect you to pause and
> give yourself an answer after a fair bit of consideration.


I wonder if perhaps CAMRA branches ought to wonder the same thing !

I'm reminded of my time in the Open University - something I joined to study 
mathematics and I found that by default I was a member of the student's 
associations and was simularly made to feel there was an ongoing very poorly 
supported social club that I should be attending.

IManky Badger <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> writes

>
>I'm reminded of my time in the Open University - something I joined to study
>mathematics and I found that by default I was a member of the student's
>associations and was simularly made to feel there was an ongoing very poorly
>supported social club that I should be attending.
>
>

Well the quick easy way round the above conundrum would have been to bin 
the newspaper on receipt, something that i have done/do over the years 
and just concentrate on the courses.
--