Hi,

I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.

The problem I have is this :

No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor 
end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. 
After that there is no life.

I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and 
plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I 
have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the 
plugs.

The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had 
been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The 
engine just stopped.
Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.
Regards
-- 
mike green

In article , 
Mike@thebarns.demon.co.uk says...

> Hi,
> 
> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
> 
> The problem I have is this :
> 
> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor 
> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. 
> After that there is no life.
> 
> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and 
> plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I 
> have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the 
> plugs.
> 
> The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had 
> been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The 
> engine just stopped.
> Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.


Hi.

Thinking back (logically!)

You've got a spark at the coil output/dizzy input lead.

You've not got a spark at the dizzy output.

This says to me that your dizzy has somehow become *very* "out". If you've 
got a spark, but there's no output, then the rotor arm isn't anywhere near 
the posts in the cap when the spark arrives.

The spark is generated IIRC, when the points open.

You'll probably find that when you look closely at the dizzy with the cap 
off, the position of the rotor arm when the points are just open, is 
completely wrong.

Why it happened : The dizzy could be breaking up inside I suppose, but IME, 
they're normally fairly simple. Check where the bottom plate connects to 
the input shaft.

What to do : Take it off, and check for slack between the plate and input 
shaft. If there is none, then it's probably OK. Is it loose? Fiat engines 
drive the dizzy from a gear from the camshaft. There's a nut/plate over the 
shaft, used to lock it down once the timing's right. If this moved, you 
could get the spark seriously out of step with the valves/rest of the 
cycle.

OK, carrying on from that. Inspiration time : I don't know how your 
distributor is timed, but make sure that is OK. If it's driven from the 
camshaft, if your timing chain has skipped quite a few teeth, this would 
explain it.

HTH

Pete.

-- 
NOTE! Email address is spamtrapped. Any email will be deleted
Remove the news and underscore from my address to reply by mail

"mike green"  wrote in message 
news:stil4HBHK6sCFw0H@thebarns.demon.co.uk...

> Hi,
>
> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>
> The problem I have is this :
>
> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor end 
> of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. After 
> that there is no life.
>
> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and plug 
> the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I have tried 
> breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the plugs.
>
> The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had 
> been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The 
> engine just stopped.
> Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.
> Regards
> -- 
> mike green


Sounds like a knackered rotor arm tracking down to the shaft.

try this:  invert the cap and place the rotor arm inside, preferably on the 
end of a piece of dry dowel, line the rotor up with a plug connector and 
flick the points, you will probably be able to see where the spark goes, if 
you can't then it is probably tracking across the cap somewhere, if it looks 
perfect then it may be that the arm has failed and when it is on its shaft 
it is tracking down to the shaft, I have seen this a lot on montego. 
another possibility is that under extra load the coil is breaking down 
internally

mrcheerful

"mike green"  wrote in message 
news:stil4HBHK6sCFw0H@thebarns.demon.co.uk...

> Hi,
>
> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>
> The problem I have is this :
>
> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor end 
> of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. After 
> that there is no life.
>
> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and plug 
> the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I have tried 
> breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the plugs.
>
> The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had 
> been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The 
> engine just stopped.
> Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.
> Regards
> -- 
> mike green


There should be a spring loaded carbon brush sticking out of the inside of 
the middle of the dizzy cap and making contact with the middle of the rotor 
arm. The HT current is led into the rotor arm from here and the rotation of 
the arm feeds the current into each plug lead from inside the cap. The brush 
may have worn out or broken. If it's not there try replacing it with a bit 
of twisted tin foil from a choc bar (tin foil, not the modern silver 
wrapping that's only plastic really.). This has got to be the problem.

Rob Graham

Rob Graham

In article ,
   mike green  wrote:

> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.

> The problem I have is this :

> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor 
> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. 
> After that there is no life.

> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and 
> plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I 
> have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the 
> plugs.

> The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had 
> been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The 
> engine just stopped.
> Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.



Set the engine on the timing mark for No1 cylinder, or when the points
just open. Does the rotor arm line up with the contact on the cap for No1
plug lead?

Is the rotor arm locating peg ok?

Seems to me the only fault could be is that the rotor is between
'contacts' at firing time.

-- 
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark.
> After that there is no life.
>
> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and
> plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I
> have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the
> plugs.
>

Are you sure the new rotor and cap are right?
Check both against the old ones, particularly for height/depth, and make
sure the centre contact is in place in the cap.

"mrcheerful ."  wrote in message
news:NRQse.52134$G8.26554@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "mike green"  wrote in message
> news:stil4HBHK6sCFw0H@thebarns.demon.co.uk...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas
> > distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
> >
> > The problem I have is this :
> >
> > No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
end
> > of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. After
> > that there is no life.
> >
> > I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and
plug
> > the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I have
tried
> > breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the plugs.
> >
> > The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had
> > been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The
> > engine just stopped.
> > Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.
> > Regards
> > -- 
> > mike green
>
> Sounds like a knackered rotor arm tracking down to the shaft.
>
> try this:  invert the cap and place the rotor arm inside, preferably on
the
> end of a piece of dry dowel, line the rotor up with a plug connector and
> flick the points, you will probably be able to see where the spark goes,
if
> you can't then it is probably tracking across the cap somewhere, if it
looks
> perfect then it may be that the arm has failed and when it is on its shaft
> it is tracking down to the shaft,


I'd suggest a better way to check the rotor arm for tracking,  is to hold it
in position inside the cap by stuffing a little finger up the hole for the
shaft, instead of using dry towel, or other form of insulator.
If you get a belt when you flick the points, the rotor arm is tracking.
If you don't, it's fairly safe to say the rotor arm is not the problem.

 >I have seen this a lot on montego.

> another possibility is that under extra load the coil is breaking down
> internally


Could be, but doubtful, as the OP has fitted a new coil.
IME if the coil is is delivering a spark to the coil king lead, it's usually
possible to hear or see where it's being lost, between it and the plugs, if
the rotor arm is held inside the distributer whilst flicking the points. It
has to go somewhere, and you can usually hear a click, as it shorts to earth
somewhere.
Locate the click either visually or aurally, and you've found the problem.
Mike.

mike green  wrote in message
news:stil4HBHK6sCFw0H@thebarns.demon.co.uk...

> Hi,
>
> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>
> The problem I have is this :
>
> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark.
> After that there is no life.
>
> I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and
> plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I
> have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the
> plugs.
>
> The fault occurred suddenly --it just seemed as though the ignition had
> been switched off. There was no banging  or spluttering or misfire. The
> engine just stopped.
> Any Ideas please, I can't think of anything else to check.
> Regards
> --
> mike green


There is either a break or short in the electrical connections in or to the
distributor. Check continuity in the LT and HT circuits with an ohmeter.
Make sure the points have a plastic washer under the moving terminal so they
aren't shorting out to the baseplate.

Is the points cam actually turning when the crank does?
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

The message <42b4116b$0$41912$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
from "Mike G"  contains these words:


> Could be, but doubtful, as the OP has fitted a new coil.
> IME if the coil is is delivering a spark to the coil king lead, it's usually
> possible to hear or see where it's being lost, between it and the plugs, if
> the rotor arm is held inside the distributer whilst flicking the points. It
> has to go somewhere, and you can usually hear a click, as it shorts to earth
> somewhere.


Do it at night and you can often seen the blue glow of the sparks escaping.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

In message , mike green 
 writes

>Hi,
>
>I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas 
>distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>
>The problem I have is this :
>
>No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor 
>end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. 
>After that there is no life.


Thanks everyone for the benefit of your experience. I will try some of 
your suggestions during next week and let you know how things go.  Or 
don't:-)
Regards
-- 
mike green

"mike green"  wrote in message
news:stil4HBHK6sCFw0H@thebarns.demon.co.uk...

> Hi,
>
> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas
> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>
> The problem I have is this :
>
> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark.
> After that there is no life.
>

Sounds very strange if you have juice on the king lead then you should have
juice down the spark plug leads unless it is conducted away -duff rotor or
arcing down cap body- since both are new its not so likely!
 however if this is only when you turn the engine over and it cuts when the
car runs suspect the earth braid to the distributor base plate, the lucas
dizzys are buggers for it is a short braid with woven insulator and they are
poor conductors at the best of times beware of replacing it with thick wire
as that interferes with the advance curve
Derek

>> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas
>> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>>
>> The problem I have is this :
>>
>> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
>> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark.
>> After that there is no life.
>>
> Sounds very strange if you have juice on the king lead then you should 
> have
> juice down the spark plug leads unless it is conducted away -duff rotor or
> arcing down cap body- since both are new its not so likely!
> however if this is only when you turn the engine over and it cuts when the
> car runs suspect the earth braid to the distributor base plate, the lucas
> dizzys are buggers for it is a short braid with woven insulator and they 
> are
> poor conductors at the best of times beware of replacing it with thick 
> wire
> as that interferes with the advance curve


Off the top of my head, I'd suspect the crankshaft sensor.  Had similar 
problems on my old '88 2 litre Carlton, and after having replaced literally 
everything from all plugs and leads to king lead to coil, to dizzy cap and 
rotor arm (put the rotor arm the wrong bloody way around as well and somehow 
ended up melting a nearby bit of plastic - I put it down to the rotor arm 
slightly knocking something out of balance - that bit of plastic cost me 
another 20 or so from Vauxhall and involved phoning around about 3 or 4 
chains of dealerships to find one vaguely nearby), including replacing the 
coil again, "just in case" this brand new one was a duff one, and in the end 
I took out the crank sensor to find lots of carbon deposits on it - gave it 
a good clean with some sort of abrasive paper and the thing fired up 
straight away.

Peter

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in message 
news:%u1te.20454$jS3.8332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

>>> I have an old pre-war 6cyl MG . It uses an old non-original  Lucas
>>> distributor (probably from a Healey 3000.
>>>
>>> The problem I have is this :
>>>
>>> No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor
>>> end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark.
>>> After that there is no life.
>>>
>> Sounds very strange if you have juice on the king lead then you should 
>> have
>> juice down the spark plug leads unless it is conducted away -duff rotor 
>> or
>> arcing down cap body- since both are new its not so likely!
>> however if this is only when you turn the engine over and it cuts when 
>> the
>> car runs suspect the earth braid to the distributor base plate, the lucas
>> dizzys are buggers for it is a short braid with woven insulator and they 
>> are
>> poor conductors at the best of times beware of replacing it with thick 
>> wire
>> as that interferes with the advance curve
>
> Off the top of my head, I'd suspect the crankshaft sensor.  Had similar 
> problems on my old '88 2 litre Carlton, and after having replaced 
> literally everything from all plugs and leads to king lead to coil, to 
> dizzy cap and rotor arm (put the rotor arm the wrong bloody way around as 
> well and somehow ended up melting a nearby bit of plastic - I put it down 
> to the rotor arm slightly knocking something out of balance - that bit of 
> plastic cost me another 20 or so from Vauxhall and involved phoning 
> around about 3 or 4 chains of dealerships to find one vaguely nearby), 
> including replacing the coil again, "just in case" this brand new one was 
> a duff one, and in the end I took out the crank sensor to find lots of 
> carbon deposits on it - gave it a good clean with some sort of abrasive 
> paper and the thing fired up straight away.
>
> Peter


Did many pre war cars use a crankshaft sensor?

mrcheerful

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "mrcheerful
.."  saying something like:


>Did many pre war cars use a crankshaft sensor?


The driver's finger?
-- 

Dave  AARRGHH!
SE6a

In message , Grimly 
Curmudgeon  writes

>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember "mrcheerful
>."  saying something like:
>
>>Did many pre war cars use a crankshaft sensor?
>
>The driver's finger?

I' m rather pleased that this one doesn't  if they are 100+ per throw.

As a matter of interest I was quoted 140  for a new dizzy cap by one 
guy. I then found ,and had to order from another supplier who priced 
their s at 50 or 60 when including delivery. The day of delivery I 
found the same cap new for 7 pounds in
Pratical Motorist.
-- 
mike green

In news:vbc9b1diub27a1qdr6t4s5ccn9s6jvl9c3@4ax.com,
Grimly Curmudgeon  decided to enlighten our 
sheltered souls with a rant as follows

> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "mrcheerful
> ."  saying something like:
>
>> Did many pre war cars use a crankshaft sensor?
>
> The driver's finger?


David, you disappoint me greatly.

As Chairman and Chief Butty Maker of the Spagthorpe Enthusiasts Association, 
you should know perfectly well that the crankshaft sensor on the early 
Spagthorpe Obelisk Mk12 was the first in series production on any British / 
Malaysian manufacture. The design of which was unusual, even for a 
Spagthorpe.
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm pretty sure you'll correct any detail lapses I 
may be presently suffering from, the design centred around a certain tribe 
of Indonesian Throwing Dwarf being paid 2/6 per week, by Spagthorpe as part 
of the servicing costs, to live in the engine compartment of the Obelisk and 
count the revolutions per minute of the 14, horizontally opposed, piston 
engine and to stoke the coals for the cigar heated footwells.


-- 
Pete M
"If it does more than 20 mpg in town, I don't want it"
Range Rover Vogue SE,
Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
Ford Capri (ressurection started)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain

>> Off the top of my head, I'd suspect the crankshaft sensor.  Had similar 
>> problems on my old '88 2 litre Carlton, and after having replaced 
>> literally everything from all plugs and leads to king lead to coil, to 
>> dizzy cap and rotor arm (put the rotor arm the wrong bloody way around as 
>> well and somehow ended up melting a nearby bit of plastic - I put it down 
>> to the rotor arm slightly knocking something out of balance - that bit of 
>> plastic cost me another 20 or so from Vauxhall and involved phoning 
>> around about 3 or 4 chains of dealerships to find one vaguely nearby), 
>> including replacing the coil again, "just in case" this brand new one was 
>> a duff one, and in the end I took out the crank sensor to find lots of 
>> carbon deposits on it - gave it a good clean with some sort of abrasive 
>> paper and the thing fired up straight away.
>
> Did many pre war cars use a crankshaft sensor?


Heh.  I forgot to say "obviously this is going to have a completely 
different ignition system, so my suggestion will probably be bugger-all 
good."

:-)

Peter

In article <KaNcFUF$oMtCFwa$@thebarns.demon.co.uk>,
   mike green  wrote:

> As a matter of interest I was quoted 140  for a new dizzy cap by one
> guy. I then found ,and had to order from another supplier who priced
> their s at 50 or 60 when including delivery. The day of delivery I
> found the same cap new for 7 pounds in Pratical Motorist.


Are you sure that it's identical to the old one which you know worked at
some time? The contacts relative to the locating points? And that it's the
same height so the centre brush is making contact with the rotor arm?

-- 
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" 
 writes

>In article <KaNcFUF$oMtCFwa$@thebarns.demon.co.uk>,
>   mike green  wrote:
>>
>Are you sure that it's identical to the old one which you know worked at
>some time? The contacts relative to the locating points? And that it's the
>same height so the centre brush is making contact with the rotor arm?
>


  Yes , I am sure that I'm comparing like with like as far as design and 
dimensions go.
The question is  :-
Was the distributor ever the most suitable for this car.
I suspect it is at best,-- the best available compromise and has 
performed very well .
In the past the car with this dizzy and appropriately numbered cap has 
raced at Silverstone and elsewhere .It held and quite likely still holds 
it's class record for Wiscombe Hill climb. A new original design 
distributor would , even if I could find one, cost the earth --the car 
is 71 yrs old .

After trying to start with my new cap etc. unit ,  I can see that the 
carbon insert in the dizzy cap does make good contact with the brass of 
the rotor arm ,both components have visual proof of contact  but there 
is no sign of burning at either the six dizzy contact points or at the 
tip of the rotor arm.

I can see no obvious fault with the cap/arm combination  that was in use 
at the time of the breakdown and I would have thought it was perfectly 
OK .For some reason it performs the same as the new one. That is, the 
current is not getting from the brass rotor arm strip to the  plugs 
using either new components or old.

I don't have time to take a good look at the problem for a few days but 
I am inclined to follow those including you Dave, who suggest that for 
some reason the rotor has become out of sync with the distributor 
cap/rotor contact points . It is the suddenness of this happening which 
worries me ----something happened fast and just cut the engine. I can't 
see any obvious problem nor hear any damage to the distributor drive or 
timing  gear. At this stage though, all other suggestions are valid and 
valuable.

I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing 
properly.
Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.



-- 
mike green

In article ,
   mike green  wrote:

> I don't have time to take a good look at the problem for a few days but 
> I am inclined to follow those including you Dave, who suggest that for 
> some reason the rotor has become out of sync with the distributor 
> cap/rotor contact points . It is the suddenness of this happening which 
> worries me ----something happened fast and just cut the engine. I can't 
> see any obvious problem nor hear any damage to the distributor drive or 
> timing  gear. At this stage though, all other suggestions are valid and 
> valuable.


But even if something had slipped in the timing, you'd still get a spark
if the distributor is turning. And assuming a normal type of Lucas
distributor, the rotor arm is fixed to the cam that operates the points,
so if the correct one and not damaged must line up with the cap correctly?


> I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing 
> properly.
> Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.


You've definitely replaced the king lead too? Many just do the plug leads.
If this was faulty, it's conceivable you'd get a spark from that but not
at a plug due to the extra resistance.

You can do a basic check on plug leads with a DVM. Suppression types have
a resistance of about 5000 ohms per foot of length.

-- 
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible? 

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

snip


> I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing
> properly.
> Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.
>
>

I've been following this with interest, but not contributed because most of
the likely possibilities had either been covered by others already or
obviated by you in the list of things you've changed, with of course the
proviso that they are in fact the correct parts.

The most likely suspect left AFAIC  is that the distributor is not turning.
Have you checked this? I know some one else mentioned the possibility, but I
gather you have not been able to devote the time to it. I would have a
volunteer watch the rotor arm as you turn the engine over.

I don't know whether this engine has a gear driven distributor, or the much
loved Lucas offset dog. The only instance I have experienced which would
match the symptoms you have got is when on an ancient commer van I used to
own, the distributor spindle seized and the distributor was pushed up out of
it's clamp. Since it was lashing down in rain at the time, I was for once
grateful for the engine being in between the front seats. I was able to
remove the dizzy, hammer the spindle out of it's bushes, apply some oil
borrowed from the engine, and get it going again without getting out.

HTH

Steve

After reading through the posts to date the only thing to cross my mind was
have you got a good solid earth lead between the block and the battery neg
terminal?

Chris

In article <d941k8$jtl$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk 
says...

> > I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing
> > properly.
> > Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.
> >
> >
> I've been following this with interest, but not contributed because most of
> the likely possibilities had either been covered by others already or
> obviated by you in the list of things you've changed, with of course the
> proviso that they are in fact the correct parts.
> 
> The most likely suspect left AFAIC  is that the distributor is not turning.
> Have you checked this? I know some one else mentioned the possibility, but I
> gather you have not been able to devote the time to it. I would have a
> volunteer watch the rotor arm as you turn the engine over.
> 


IMO, given it's sparking, the dizzy *is* moving, because the points are 
opening and closing.

I'd still suspect (along with most other people) of a sudden jump in the 
dizzy timing. It could be at the gear end, or the base plate is has simply 
slipped on the shaft, and is out by enough of an angle that you don't get a 
spark.

It'll need a strip down of the distributor to tell though.

Another posters advice of TDC on Cylinder 1, make sure the points are 
somewhere near opening. My bet is that they're not.

Pete.

-- 
NOTE! Email address is spamtrapped. Any email will be deleted
Remove the news and underscore from my address to reply by mail

In message <d941k8$jtl$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, shazzbat
 writes

>
>snip
>
>> I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing
>> properly.
>> Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.
>>
>>
>I've been following this with interest, but not contributed because most of
>the likely possibilities had either been covered by others already or
>obviated by you in the list of things you've changed, with of course the
>proviso that they are in fact the correct parts.
>


Hello Steve,
  Thanks for taking interest, I'm most grateful.

I can't see any problem with spindle, it turns as it should and the
whole thing looks to be in clean and sound condition.
It is difficult to say if the parts I have match the original spec for
the engine . All I can say is that my new parts do match in part No.
,visual appearance and in close dimension to the parts I removed . I now
doubt that any of the old parts were faulty. Besides new points etc.
I have tried electronic ignition (simple under the cap hall cell) and
get  a whacking spark from the dizzy end of the king lead-- nothing at
the plugs .
At the moment it is defying the laws of physics
 .




>

>


-- 
mike green

Try the following.

Check the continuity of the cap by first connecting the king lead into its 
place in the cap. Remove the centre brush and tape the bare end of a lead 
(call this end A) to it and push it back into the cap. Then turn the 
distributor and see if you get a spark at the other end of this lead (end 
B). If you do, then the continuity is OK so far. If not, then the brush 
isn't making contact inside the cap to the king lead connection.

If you do get a spark at end B, then push a plug lead into a contact hole 
outside the cap and connect end B to the relevant contact inside the cap 
(maybe by just holding it there), and see if you get a spark at the plug end 
of this plug lead. If you do, then the rotor arm must be duff and you could 
test it by substituting it for the lead with ends A & B.

I hope this is understandable!

Rob Graham

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:57:42 +0100, mike green
 wrote:


>In message <d941k8$jtl$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, shazzbat
> writes
>>
>>snip
>>
>>> I guess I need to look deeper for damage and then attend to the timing
>>> properly.
>>> Thanks for your interest , I have got lots of good advice from this NG.
>>>
>>>
>>I've been following this with interest, but not contributed because most of
>>the likely possibilities had either been covered by others already or
>>obviated by you in the list of things you've changed, with of course the
>>proviso that they are in fact the correct parts.
>>
>
>Hello Steve,
>  Thanks for taking interest, I'm most grateful.
>
>I can't see any problem with spindle, it turns as it should and the
>whole thing looks to be in clean and sound condition.


Looking at the thread and the info you have supplied, ie good spark at
king lead, new cap and rotor  fitted, The sudden stop and no start I
would follow up on Pete Smith's suggestion, ie a slip of the shaft so
that the rotor, when there is a spark, is not opposite a segment on
the cap.

Simple test to see if this is the problem, remove D Cap and see if you
can turn the Rotor arm. There should be a little "sprung" movement
because of the centrifugal advance/retard, but see if you can actually
turn the rotor shaft. If so then something has gone wrong between the
cam gear and the rotor arm.

Graham

mike green wrote:


> I can't see any problem with spindle, it turns as it should and the
> whole thing looks to be in clean and sound condition.


I had the chain drive sprocket strip on an old car where the engine 
stopped, although when checking there was a spark and the rotor spindle 
'appeared' to be fine!

In message , mike green 
 writes

>
>No spark at the plugs! I have current right through to the distributor 
>end of the HT lead to the coil, where there is a very healthy spark. 
>After that there is no life.
>
>I have renewed the rotor arm, the distributor cap ,all the leads and 
>plug the caps. I have fitted a new coil, new points and condenser. I 
>have tried breakerless ignition but still cannot get a spark at the 
>plugs.
>
>

Hi
Thanks to everyone who replied to my question .


It was the rotor arm!

The first replacement rotor was  a dud and threw me completely. No sign 
of a fault but totally useless.
The second  was fault free and the car started first time.
Thanks again for your help.
Regards
-- 
mike green

In article ,
   mike green  wrote:

> The first replacement rotor was  a dud and threw me completely. No sign 
> of a fault but totally useless.


Most rotor arms are simply a strip of brass in a plastic moulding. Was the
locating peg in the correct position? Because they're not all the same
despite looking so from the top.

-- 
*Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" 
 writes

>In article ,
>   mike green  wrote:
>> The first replacement rotor was  a dud and threw me completely. No sign
>> of a fault but totally useless.
>
>Most rotor arms are simply a strip of brass in a plastic moulding. Was the
>locating peg in the correct position? Because they're not all the same
>despite looking so from the top.
>

Yes, exactly the same part .

The main thing is the car does run now.
-- 
mike green

mike green wrote:


> It was the rotor arm!
> 
> The first replacement rotor was  a dud and threw me completely. No sign 
> of a fault but totally useless.


ISTR someone on the classic car newsgroup talking about a batch of 
faulty rotor arms causing all sorts of consternation up and down the 
country a year or two back. Damned if I can remember what cars they were 
for though.

In article ,
   mike green  wrote:

> >Most rotor arms are simply a strip of brass in a plastic moulding. Was
> >the locating peg in the correct position? Because they're not all the
> >same despite looking so from the top.
> >
> Yes, exactly the same part .

> The main thing is the car does run now.


Still of interest to know what caused the rotor arm to be faulty? The
obvious answer is that it was tracking the spark down to ground ie the
cam. But there's usually signs of this.

-- 
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.