Well, I have gone and bought myself a secondhand HW77 from a dealer. Seems 
to be a very well engineered rifle by all accounts and well tried. I really 
did not want to spend a huge amount for knocking off vermin on the farm, 
either.

I did a fair bit of research and decided the Sheridan pump up I used years 
ago was not going to be accurate enough for lamping rabbits. I've been 
using the BRNO .22LR which is excellent but will also be knocking off a few 
feral pigeons for hawk food and I reasoned it would be counter to public 
relations to drill holes through my neighbour's barn roof with the .22!

I am beginning to get quite interested in this air rifle stuff. Things seem 
to have moved on from the Diana No. 12 my dad brought back for me from the 
war! (That was WWII before anyone asks).

Seems the HW77 is emminently upgradable to FAC standard, too, and Chambers 
who stock the higher rated springs and stuff is just 11 miles down the 
road! Someone mention 20ft/lbs even!

Now, John, if you are reading this, what do you pest controller bods use 
for pest control inside buildings? I've heard of pellets made of sugar for 
use within warehouses where food is stored. (Don't want bits of lead 
contaminating our food, do we?). But is there anything to cut the energy? 
Plastic pellets? I'm thinking feral pigeons on indoor roof members here.

Ye gods, here I go, and the rifle hasn't even arrived yet!<g>

Derry

Derry Argue wrote:


> Now, John, if you are reading this, what do you pest controller bods use 
> for pest control inside buildings? I've heard of pellets made of sugar for 
> use within warehouses where food is stored. (Don't want bits of lead 
> contaminating our food, do we?). But is there anything to cut the energy? 
> Plastic pellets? I'm thinking feral pigeons on indoor roof members here.


 From a professional pest control point of view, shooting is the last 
option. First bird proofing work should be carried out, or at least the 
investigation in to the possibility of "proofing" the warehouse / grain 
store has to be shown. If this isn't possible, then shooting isn't going 
to be effective as most birds will simply replace the shot. In highly 
sensitive areas, trapping may take presidency to shooting. Certainly 
where "open" food supplies are being protected the risk of contamination 
by dead birds,pellets, feathers and the like could not be risked, so the 
customer would be asked to remove *all* foods from the area before work 
could take place. Due to H&S in general the hassle factor of using 
rifles has to be taken in to account. All sorts of paper work has to be 
completed, Risk assessments etc.
Alternative ammo isn't used, again due to legislation. For example, if a 
pest controller was to injure a bird and this could be linked to 
ballistically bad pellets, then the W&C act would kick in (amounts others).
If shooting was the only way of control and in a food sensitive 
environment, then two things would have to happen, first total 
co-operation from the customer and destruction of *all* possible food 
sources of mark them not fit for human consumption.
Then the birds would either be baited to ground level, shot using a safe 
back stop or simply stupefied using Alphacloralose technical (spelling?) 
and dispatched with Co2 (again making shoot a second or even third option).

HTH :)

John

On 14 Jun 2005 17:56:28 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>Well, I have gone and bought myself a secondhand HW77 from a dealer. Seems 
>to be a very well engineered rifle by all accounts and well tried. I really 
>did not want to spend a huge amount for knocking off vermin on the farm, 
>either.
>

	Should be a decent enough bit of kit.  If
you've got the eyes for it there should be no problem
dealing with rabbits or pigeons out to about 40 yards.
You'll hear plenty of people talk about 70 yard shots,
bu there's a world of difference between bowling over a
tin can at that distance and getting a definite kill.
The closer the better, in my book.  My modified Webley
Hawk will kill out to about 30 yards, but I always
preferred to get closer.
 

>feral pigeons for hawk food and I reasoned it would be counter to public 
>relations to drill holes through my neighbour's barn roof with the .22!


	A corrugated tin roof will stop or deflect
*most* legal airgun pellets at 20 yards or more.  .177
has a slight edge on penetration of hard objects, and
*probably* a definite edge on multi-layered energy
absorbent 'protection' such as a pigeon's breast
feathers.  Corrugated asbestos (sorry, they call it
cement reinforced particle board nowadays) or plastic
will normally puncture (small neat holes) with either
..22 or .177 fired from inside the building because of
the closer range.  Fired from outside deflection may
well save the day.  Really old - and therefore brittle
- corrugated plastic sometimes just shatters
spectacularly ;-)    

>
>Seems the HW77 is emminently upgradable to FAC standard, too, and Chambers 
>who stock the higher rated springs and stuff is just 11 miles down the 
>road! Someone mention 20ft/lbs even!


	First, give it a good work out without any
expensive upgrades.  Ask your dealer if he can chrono
the thing and check that it's producing close to the
legal 12ft/lbs maximum.  I've never used an FAC rated
air rifle, but a lot of people who have say they're
neither fish nor fowl.  Definitely not enough when you
really need a 'proper' .22, and too much for everday
shooting.  An air rifle is a niche weapon.  Use it
within the intended niche and it will rarely let you
down. 

>
>Ye gods, here I go, and the rifle hasn't even arrived yet!<g>


	New Toy syndrome ;-)

	One last point.  The right pellets can make all
the difference.  You didn't specify if yours was .22 or
..177.  Forget the difference types for now (flat heads,
wadcutters, pointed, roundhead).  There are now two
different *sizes* of .22 pellets.  5.5mm and 5.6mm.  If
memory serves correctly a lot of continental guns are
happier with a diet of 5.5mm.  Not all though, my
ancient Haenal is stamped as 5.6mm (the English .22)
and the slightly narrower pellet almost falls through
the barrel. 

	1/10 of a mill may seem bugger all difference,
but it's a huge gap in engineering terms.  A snug
fitting pellet can turn a noisy twanger into a sweet
and much quieter rifle.  A pellet which is too tight
will shave lead from the skirt, lose quite a bit of
power, and perhaps effect accuracy.

	Your HW77 may have the size stamped on the
barrel.  If it does, follow the manufacturers guide.
Find a pellet which fits well, performs well, and then
stick with it.

	Enjoy your new toy.

	Gyppo 


John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

On 14 Jun 2005 17:56:28 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>Well, I have gone and bought myself a secondhand HW77 from a dealer. Seems 


	Oops!  How the hell did I manage to miss the
..22 in the subject line.  What a twat!

	Still, this uncharacteristic self-abasement
allows me to mention a very definite advantage to the
..22.  The pellets are easier to handle with
frost-numbed fingers ;-)

	Gyppo - just a tad red-faced  
John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

John <john.p.young*removethislittlebit*@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:3h8nedFfoikcU1@individual.net: 


> Derry Argue wrote:
> 
>> Now, John, if you are reading this, what do you pest controller bods
>> use for pest control inside buildings? I've heard of pellets made of
>> sugar for use within warehouses where food is stored. (Don't want
>> bits of lead contaminating our food, do we?). But is there anything
>> to cut the energy? Plastic pellets? I'm thinking feral pigeons on
>> indoor roof members here. 
> 
>  From a professional pest control point of view, shooting is the last 
> option. First bird proofing work should be carried out, or at least
> the investigation in to the possibility of "proofing" the warehouse /
> grain store has to be shown. If this isn't possible, then shooting
> isn't going to be effective as most birds will simply replace the
> shot. In highly sensitive areas, trapping may take presidency to
> shooting. Certainly where "open" food supplies are being protected the
> risk of contamination by dead birds,pellets, feathers and the like
> could not be risked, so the customer would be asked to remove *all*
> foods from the area before work could take place. Due to H&S in
> general the hassle factor of using rifles has to be taken in to
> account. All sorts of paper work has to be completed, Risk assessments
> etc. Alternative ammo isn't used, again due to legislation. For
> example, if a pest controller was to injure a bird and this could be
> linked to ballistically bad pellets, then the W&C act would kick in
> (amounts others). If shooting was the only way of control and in a
> food sensitive environment, then two things would have to happen,
> first total co-operation from the customer and destruction of *all*
> possible food sources of mark them not fit for human consumption.
> Then the birds would either be baited to ground level, shot using a
> safe back stop or simply stupefied using Alphacloralose technical
> (spelling?) and dispatched with Co2 (again making shoot a second or
> even third option). 
> 
> HTH :)
> 
> John


Cripes! Now, careful John, I am already in a sensitive mental state and all 
that talk of red tape could push me over the edge. If anyone reading this 
is contemplating applying under the Scottish Forestry Grant Scheme without 
an in-house psychiatrist, DON'T! On top of this, I was stupid enough to ask 
DEFRA what I would need if I bought a few head of cattle to keep the grass 
down and a wad of bumph about an inch thick thumped onto the hall floor. 
Thank goodness for old age. These days I just mumble that I'm having one of 
my bad days and I will have to wait for the district nurse to explain it 
all to me. That generally seems to frighten them off and if it doesn't, a 
feigned heart attack generally does the trick!<g> 

Getting back to a serious note, I am now not surprised that so many sellers 
of animal feed stuffs seem to have a bird problem in their warehouses. 
Personally, I would follow the advice given to Queen Victoria about getting 
rid of the plague of sparrows in the Crystal Palace. "Sparrowhawks, ma'am, 
sparrowhawks". They would work, too. Maybe I should set up in business?

Derry

J Craggs  wrote in
news:88cua1l8fauuft4f5pbd3i6mo0eq0eno6s@4ax.com: 


> On 14 Jun 2005 17:56:28 GMT, Derry Argue
>  wrote:
> 
>>Well, I have gone and bought myself a secondhand HW77 from a dealer.
>>Seems to be a very well engineered rifle by all accounts and well
>>tried. I really did not want to spend a huge amount for knocking off
>>vermin on the farm, either.
>>
>      Should be a decent enough bit of kit. 


I've been doing some research and it seems to be regarded as one of the 
best of the spring powered air rifles. A pcp would be nice but parting with 
the cash wouldn't!

> 
>      First, give it a good work out without any
> expensive upgrades.  Ask your dealer if he can chrono
> the thing and check that it's producing close to the
> legal 12ft/lbs maximum.


I usually buy privately. Missed another at 70 but that could have been a 
mistake. Paid 130 from the dealer plus 15 delivery fore this one and I am 
assured it is sound. "We have a reputation so don't sell rubbish". Missed a 
HW77 silencer for 20 last night but maybe that isn't necessary for lamping 
rabbits anyway.

  Use it

> within the intended niche and it will rarely let you
> down. 


Agreed. I don't expect it to do the job of the .22LR. I have no experience 
of modern air rifles and just assumed what was said was exaggerated 
nonsense.

 

>      One last point.  The right pellets can make all
> the difference.


Yes. I've done some research on that too. Weight seems to be the critical 
factor. Fortunately, the rifle has been out for over 10 years and there is 
plenty of information out there. I have been reading up about tuning and 
adjusting the trigger action. I must say I do like a nice trigger!

Forget the difference types for now (flat heads,

> wadcutters, pointed, roundhead).  There are now two
> different *sizes* of .22 pellets.  5.5mm and 5.6mm. 


Apparently the HW77 has a choked barrel! Incredible!


> Find a pellet which fits well, performs well, and then
> stick with it.


Sounds like a good excuse for lots of playing! Goodie!!<vbg>

 

>      Enjoy your new toy.
> 
>      Gyppo 
> 


Derry

I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any doubt that 
it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised at how accurate it 
is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope and a bench rest it will 
group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when I am using it. It has an 
excellent trigger, far better than any other non target rifle I have ever 
used, and is very solidly built.
I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I will 
never sell the HW77.
I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I seem to 
remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or similar.
Regards

Sean

"Derry Argue"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96765EB3F2E70derryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...

>J Craggs  wrote in
> news:88cua1l8fauuft4f5pbd3i6mo0eq0eno6s@4ax.com:
>
>> On 14 Jun 2005 17:56:28 GMT, Derry Argue
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Well, I have gone and bought myself a secondhand HW77 from a dealer.
>>>Seems to be a very well engineered rifle by all accounts and well
>>>tried. I really did not want to spend a huge amount for knocking off
>>>vermin on the farm, either.
>>>
>>      Should be a decent enough bit of kit.
>
> I've been doing some research and it seems to be regarded as one of the
> best of the spring powered air rifles. A pcp would be nice but parting 
> with
> the cash wouldn't!
>>
>>      First, give it a good work out without any
>> expensive upgrades.  Ask your dealer if he can chrono
>> the thing and check that it's producing close to the
>> legal 12ft/lbs maximum.
>
> I usually buy privately. Missed another at 70 but that could have been a
> mistake. Paid 130 from the dealer plus 15 delivery fore this one and I 
> am
> assured it is sound. "We have a reputation so don't sell rubbish". Missed 
> a
> HW77 silencer for 20 last night but maybe that isn't necessary for 
> lamping
> rabbits anyway.
>
>  Use it
>> within the intended niche and it will rarely let you
>> down.
>
> Agreed. I don't expect it to do the job of the .22LR. I have no experience
> of modern air rifles and just assumed what was said was exaggerated
> nonsense.
>
>
>>      One last point.  The right pellets can make all
>> the difference.
>
> Yes. I've done some research on that too. Weight seems to be the critical
> factor. Fortunately, the rifle has been out for over 10 years and there is
> plenty of information out there. I have been reading up about tuning and
> adjusting the trigger action. I must say I do like a nice trigger!
>
> Forget the difference types for now (flat heads,
>> wadcutters, pointed, roundhead).  There are now two
>> different *sizes* of .22 pellets.  5.5mm and 5.6mm.
>
> Apparently the HW77 has a choked barrel! Incredible!
>
>> Find a pellet which fits well, performs well, and then
>> stick with it.
>
> Sounds like a good excuse for lots of playing! Goodie!!<vbg>
>
>
>>      Enjoy your new toy.
>>
>>      Gyppo
>>
>
> Derry 

"Sean"  wrote in
news:d8op3n$3t0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk: 


> I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any doubt
> that it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised at how
> accurate it is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope and a bench
> rest it will group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when I am using it.
> It has an excellent trigger, far better than any other non target
> rifle I have ever used, and is very solidly built.
> I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I
> will never sell the HW77.
> I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I
> seem to remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or
> similar. Regards
> 
> Sean


According to what I've Googled, the following are all recommended, but I 
cannot say what the common factor is, though possibly weight:

15.9 grain JSB Extracts
H&N Field & Target Trophy.
*H&N Barracuda - Extra Heavy
*RWS Super domes
Bisley Super Field

I've tended to make a note of those recommended for hunting. Those marked * 
were recommended by several reviewers.

The only problem I can foresee is having to cock the HW77 betweem shots 
when lamping rabbits off the quad. I have a pretty efficient system. The 
"cabin controlled search light" is attached above my head on a sort of roll 
cage.  I fix the beam straight ahead, aimed at a spot about 25 yards in 
front. The rifle rests on a cross bar on the roll cage. Rabbits are 
spotted, I hit the brakes, possibly adjust the spotlight, shoot, drive to 
collect rabbit which is thrown over my shoulder into one of those big 
builder's buckets strapped to the rear carrier -- then on to the next! The 
roll cage was made up to take the spot light for foxing and it has been 
tremendously useful. I can stand on the seat of the quad and shoot off the 
top so it is also a mini high seat. The frame is made of 25mm box section 
and it bolts to the quad instead of the front and rear carriers.

Going back to the HW77, the trigger unit is apparently made by Rekord and 
is a double lever. It is said to be one of the best types of trigger on any 
rifle. It is a two stager with both stages fully adjustable.

I am truly shocked that you will not sell me your WH77 as I was hoping to 
get a matched pair!<vbg>

Derry

Using those methods, I hope you have a really big bucket for the rabbits 
;)

Sean



"Derry Argue"  wrote in message 
news:Xns967682F5FEC2Ederryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...

> "Sean"  wrote in
> news:d8op3n$3t0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk:
>
>> I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any doubt
>> that it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised at how
>> accurate it is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope and a bench
>> rest it will group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when I am using it.
>> It has an excellent trigger, far better than any other non target
>> rifle I have ever used, and is very solidly built.
>> I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I
>> will never sell the HW77.
>> I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I
>> seem to remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or
>> similar. Regards
>>
>> Sean
>
> According to what I've Googled, the following are all recommended, but I
> cannot say what the common factor is, though possibly weight:
>
> 15.9 grain JSB Extracts
> H&N Field & Target Trophy.
> *H&N Barracuda - Extra Heavy
> *RWS Super domes
> Bisley Super Field
>
> I've tended to make a note of those recommended for hunting. Those marked 
> *
> were recommended by several reviewers.
>
> The only problem I can foresee is having to cock the HW77 betweem shots
> when lamping rabbits off the quad. I have a pretty efficient system. The
> "cabin controlled search light" is attached above my head on a sort of 
> roll
> cage.  I fix the beam straight ahead, aimed at a spot about 25 yards in
> front. The rifle rests on a cross bar on the roll cage. Rabbits are
> spotted, I hit the brakes, possibly adjust the spotlight, shoot, drive to
> collect rabbit which is thrown over my shoulder into one of those big
> builder's buckets strapped to the rear carrier -- then on to the next! The
> roll cage was made up to take the spot light for foxing and it has been
> tremendously useful. I can stand on the seat of the quad and shoot off the
> top so it is also a mini high seat. The frame is made of 25mm box section
> and it bolts to the quad instead of the front and rear carriers.
>
> Going back to the HW77, the trigger unit is apparently made by Rekord and
> is a double lever. It is said to be one of the best types of trigger on 
> any
> rifle. It is a two stager with both stages fully adjustable.
>
> I am truly shocked that you will not sell me your WH77 as I was hoping to
> get a matched pair!<vbg>
>
> Derry 

On 15 Jun 2005 08:10:04 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>Apparently the HW77 has a choked barrel! Incredible!
>

	Way back when I used to write fairly regularly
for airgun magazines this slight choke was one of the
'great secrets' of the better target air rifles.   When
it was first applied to hunting and Field Target rifles
many people just assumed that certain makes were more
inherently accurate due to better build quality.

	Then there was a wave of customisations,
carbine length barrels and moderators being popular.
On most rifles it was perfectly reasonable to crop a
few inches from the end, cut a thread, and fit a
moderator.  A good selling point and in most cases no
damage done and no real difference in performance.

	But if you lopped the choked section then the
previously super-accurate rifle went badly down hill
;-)  The serious customisers knew this and removed the
surplus at the breech end, thus preserving the 'choke',
but this wasn't a job for the hacksaw and gas-pipe die
brigade.


>Sounds like a good excuse for lots of playing! Goodie!!<vbg>
>

	Oh, there's no end to the playing around you
can do ;-)

	Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

One of the major regrets in my life was not buying a cased air gun I saw in 
an antique shop. 

The air container was in the stock which was covered in shagreen (shark 
skin). The kit included a rifled barrel and a smooth barrel, inter-
changeable, and simply screwed home; a bullet mold and pump, plus the usual 
accessories; all contained in a beautiful mahogany case. I think the breech 
was engraved with rampant stags, etc. That must have been around 1957 and 
it was all in pristine condition.

But the price was beyond my reach at the time. All of ten quid! 
Aaaarrggh!!!

I did have one of those pump up walking stick air guns, though. The seal 
had cracked (looked like it had been turned out of a piece of cow's horn) 
but I made another by heating up an old nylon hypodermic and moulding it 
into shape! It was pretty lethal and would put a 3/8th inch lead slug 
through a half inch board with no problems.

Derry

Derry Argue wrote:


> Getting back to a serious note, I am now not surprised that so many sellers 
> of animal feed stuffs seem to have a bird problem in their warehouses. 
> Personally, I would follow the advice given to Queen Victoria about getting 
> rid of the plague of sparrows in the Crystal Palace. "Sparrowhawks, ma'am, 
> sparrowhawks". They would work, too. Maybe I should set up in business?


Big business Derry!

We use hawks and so do many companies.
This is done on a subcontract basis and it is most valued if the chap 
with the birds can pose as an employee of the pest control company.

John

On 15 Jun 2005 14:59:50 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>One of the major regrets in my life was not buying a cased air gun I saw in 
>an antique shop. 
>
>The air container was in the stock which was covered in shagreen (shark 
>skin). The kit included a rifled barrel and a smooth barrel, inter-
>changeable, and simply screwed home; a bullet mold and pump, plus the usual 
>accessories; all contained in a beautiful mahogany case. I think the breech 
>was engraved with rampant stags, etc. That must have been around 1957 and 
>it was all in pristine condition.
>
>But the price was beyond my reach at the time. All of ten quid! 
>Aaaarrggh!!!
>

	Aaaarrggh indeed ;-(


>I did have one of those pump up walking stick air guns, though. The seal 
>had cracked (looked like it had been turned out of a piece of cow's horn) 
>but I made another by heating up an old nylon hypodermic and moulding it 
>into shape! It was pretty lethal and would put a 3/8th inch lead slug 
>through a half inch board with no problems.


	Yes, horn was the material of choice.
Supposedly it had the correct balance of firmness and
resilience if it was lapped properly to fit the valve.
A lot of the early plastics called upon to replace
tired or brittle horn valves were either too hard (and
thus tended to leak unless they were a perfect match),
or too soft (in which case the valve didn't open
cleanly enough when struck by the hammer).  It sounds
as if your hypodermic improvisation struck the happy
medium.

	In one of my old airgun books - away in the
loft so I can't just check it out - the writer refers
to 'testing' such an air-cane.  He fired several shots
into a target on a barn door and was horrified to find
they had smashed straight through, puncturing a jacket
hung on the inside.  They had travelled the length of
the barn - fortunately no-one was inside at the time -
and exited through the back wall and finally done
'considerable damage to the wheel of a bicycle leaned
against the back wall'.

	My cousin once did something similar with a
70lb draw-weight crossbow and one of those flimsy
'shiplap' sheds.  His Dad did 'considerable damage' to
his backside to teach him the error of his ways.

	More innocent and civilised times, eh?   

	Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in 
news:89k0b11f35ggqcs9ha51bj743c7mkp8tji@4ax.com:


>      More innocent and civilised times, eh?   


If the modern cops could have seen what we traded at school back in those 
days! Lots of war time souveniers knocking about too. 0.44 Tranter and 
Adams transition revolvers -- two a penny! I bought a .38 Webley service 
revolver for 8. Someone else had a very nice 9mm Luger and we managed to 
"acquire" some ammunition of it from somewhere. Better stop this thread 
here or we will be giving the youngsters some ideas!<g>

Derry

On 15 Jun 2005 20:06:26 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>J Craggs  wrote in 
>news:89k0b11f35ggqcs9ha51bj743c7mkp8tji@4ax.com:
>
>>      More innocent and civilised times, eh?   
>
>If the modern cops could have seen what we traded at school back in those 
>days! Lots of war time souveniers knocking about too. 0.44 Tranter and 
>Adams transition revolvers -- two a penny! I bought a .38 Webley service 
>revolver for 8. Someone else had a very nice 9mm Luger and we managed to 
>"acquire" some ammunition of it from somewhere. Better stop this thread 
>here or we will be giving the youngsters some ideas!<g>
>
>Derry


	Getting way off topic here and you're probably
right, but whilst the nostalgia train's running
(presumably steam powered) I recall a kid at my junior
school who brought in a live mortar bomb one Monday
morning for 'show and tell' ;-)  (And what have you
been doing over the weekend, Children...)

	The female teacher nearly had a fit when he
just casually lobbed it onto the table.  But that was
nothing to how pale she went when she found out we'd
all been chucking it around the playground.  Seemed
fair enough, we'd dropped it nose first a few times and
nothing had happened, so it had to be a 'dud'.

	One of the male teachers - with the requisite
war wound and appropriate knowledge came in and checked
it out for her.  Told us it was live - not a practice
round - and that we were a 'lucky little bunch of
buggers'.  We probably all went a bit pale too, but
were far more excited at having got a teacher to swear
out loud ;-)

	He carried it carefully out and hid it
somewhere until the Village Bobby arrived, proper old
time Bobby, huge chap on a black bike with a double
crossbar.  He asked the lad where he'd found it, nodded
knowingly, and made a note in his book.  

	He then picked up the mortar bomb, spat on it
and rubbed off a bit more dirt, then just casually
tossed it into his saddlebag and rode off to the
copshop at the nearby town.  We all watched him ride
away with boy-like visions in our heads of his great
fat arse being blown off. 

	When some of us went looking after school the
army or whoever had been and cleared out the rest of
the arms dump (or Home Guard cache) and blown some of
the bigger stuff up in situ.  But there were still
various odds and ends of machine gun belt and quite a
few loose rounds of .303 to be traded.

	They found a bit more stuff when they built on
that land a few years back, but all the 'good stuff'
had already gone ;-)

	Gyppo  
John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in 
news:p231b1dsthkdtk3ssnliak5tbtaf9gk9kp@4ax.com:


>      When some of us went looking after school the
> army or whoever had been and cleared out the rest of
> the arms dump (or Home Guard cache) and blown some of
> the bigger stuff up in situ. 


Item on TV news tonight, someone had found some old phosphorus incendaries! 
They reckon there are still thousands of Home Guard dumps around the 
country that have been lost or forgotten about!

I live right next to what was a big airfield during the war. Just up the 
road is a large MOD building where they used to brief the pilots. And so 
on.

Keep meaning to do some mine detecting... Nearest thing to a weapon so far 
is a flint chip and several dumps of mussel shells (found when digging a 
hole to bury a sheep) from Neolithic times!

Derry

On 15 Jun 2005 22:07:05 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:

>
>Item on TV news tonight, someone had found some old phosphorus incendaries!


	Nasty things...
 

>They reckon there are still thousands of Home Guard dumps around the 
>country that have been lost or forgotten about!


	Quite possible.  Only a few years back a family
near Southampton clearing their Dad's house after he
died found a whole room sealed off.  When opened it was
a veritable Quartermaster's Store of WW2 stuff.  Heavy
tripod mounted belt feed machine guns, rifles, stens,
grenades, the complete works.  His family had no idea
about his cache.  Popular theory was that the old boy
wasn't just part of the 'ordinary' Home Guard but QM
for one of the secretive 'stay hidden until the enemy
think they've won' units.  Set up to wreak havoc in the
aftermath of a successful German invasion.  And it has
been suggested that some of them were kept 'on the
books' long after in case the Russians ever tried it
on.

	And it's not that long ago that they rebuilt
and re-inforced the runway at Southampton Airport to
take heavier planes.  The contractors dug up loads of
rusty old pipes which turned out to be 'bangalore
torpedos', tubes filled with explosive and driven
underneath the runway so it could be blown up and
rendered useless in the event of an imminent airborne
invasion.  Millions of passengers had rolled over them,
blissfully unaware for years. ;-)

	All this has really pressed the memory button!

	Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in 
news:4gb1b1h574oofb1tt6k02futvj7lhpbcs7@4ax.com:


>      All this has really pressed the memory button!


It is really incredible how paranoid the authorities have become. My uncle 
had an explosives licence so he could demolish rocks on the farm. He 
regularly had odd pieces of gelignite casually kicking around in the front 
dash of the Land Rover! A bit dodgey, too, as I gather the stuff can leak 
nitro.  One time he blew a large rocky outcrop in the middle of a field -- 
and deposited a half ton rock right into the Land Rover! Fortunately, no 
one was sitting in it at the time!<g> After that, he parked it further 
away...

Derry

On 16 Jun 2005 06:26:46 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>It is really incredible how paranoid the authorities have become. My uncle 
>had an explosives licence so he could demolish rocks on the farm. He 
>regularly had odd pieces of gelignite casually kicking around in the front 
>dash of the Land Rover! A bit dodgey, too, as I gather the stuff can leak 
>nitro.  One time he blew a large rocky outcrop in the middle of a field -- 
>and deposited a half ton rock right into the Land Rover! Fortunately, no 
>one was sitting in it at the time!<g> After that, he parked it further 
>away...
>

	I'd like to have seen that ;-)  Here's an
(almost) non-explosive tale handed down by a friend's
grandfather.  Set in a small Hampshire village not far
from Winchester.  Probably not long after WW1.

	The 'Lady' of the village had asked a local
character - who we shall call 'Dynamite Jack' - to cut
down and root out a large old Oak tree which was
leaning and threatening her home.

	Jack sized it up and quoted a price, which was
acceptable to 'Her Ladyship'.  The cutting was no
problem, a gang of locals set to and did the job in
short order.  But the stump was a problem.

	"I'll soon have that bugger out with a bit of
dynamite, Milady."

	"Sorry.  No dynamite.  It might frighten the
horses.    And, worse still, you might damage my Cherry
tree.  You'll have to find another way."

	Jack was proud of his ability to blow stumps
'as clean as a whistle' but she wouldn't be budged.

	Him and the lads set to with saws,axes,
crowbars, sledgehammers and wedges.  Many of the
spreading roots were cut off but he soon grew impatient
with the slow progress.  Time was money, especially
when he'd quoted a fixed price based on blasting the
stump.

	A few yards away from the stump there grew the
famous cherry tree, Her Ladyship's pride and
joy,planted herself when she was younger.

	Jack looked around, made his calculations,
waited till his employer was out for the day, and set
up a block and tackle arrangement.  The tackle was
carefully anchored to the Cherry tree with plenty of
greasy sacking and other padding to protect it.  

	A cable was secured to the Oak stump, fed
through the multi-pulley block and tackle, and Jack was
thus able to pull at a right angle straight down the
middle of the ornamental driveway.

	His tractor struggled a bit and then suddenly
surged forward as the Cherry tree popped from the
ground 'as clean as a bloody whistle, Boy'. and was
dragged a few yards from its hole.

	Before Her Ladyship returned they'd poured
several bags of cement into the hole and  managed to
winch the tree back into almost the same position and
tidied away most of the evidence.  The tree survived
well beyond Her ladyship's remaining years and the
troublesome Oak stump was just levelled as best they
could with fire and hand tools and allowed to merge
back into the ground.

	Several years later- when Jack was doing some
other tree work for her - Her Ladyship said, "Have you
ever noticed how my Cherry tree seems to have
flourished greatly since you took out that Oak?" 

	Gyppo
  
John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in 
news:hbm2b1dlpruc5aaiivrfmqrb2a53r23k0l@4ax.com:


>      The 'Lady' of the village had asked a local
> character - who we shall call 'Dynamite Jack' - to cut
> down and root out a large old Oak tree which was
> leaning and threatening her home.


There is nothing stranger than the truth!<g>

When I ran a sporting agency, I dealt exclusively with North Sea oil 
personnel. They had many a story. One man was an explosives expert and he 
reckoned it was neater and cheaper to use explosives to cut a pipe rather 
than use gas! All this under water, too.

Derry

"Derry Argue"  wrote in message 
news:Xns967682F5FEC2Ederryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...

> "Sean"  wrote in
> news:d8op3n$3t0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk:
>
>> I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any doubt
>> that it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised at how
>> accurate it is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope and a bench
>> rest it will group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when I am using it.
>> It has an excellent trigger, far better than any other non target
>> rifle I have ever used, and is very solidly built.
>> I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I
>> will never sell the HW77.
>> I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I
>> seem to remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or
>> similar. Regards
>>
>> Sean
>
> According to what I've Googled, the following are all recommended, but I
> cannot say what the common factor is, though possibly weight:
>
> 15.9 grain JSB Extracts
> H&N Field & Target Trophy.
> *H&N Barracuda - Extra Heavy
> *RWS Super domes
> Bisley Super Field
>
> I've tended to make a note of those recommended for hunting. Those marked 
> *
> were recommended by several reviewers.
>


I found them pellets, they were RWS hobby wadcutters in 5.5mm calibre. I 
have never tried them against rabbits, but against paper targets they are 
the best I have used by far.

Cheers

Sean

"Sean"  wrote in
news:d8u2kl$643$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk: 


> "Derry Argue"  wrote in message 
> news:Xns967682F5FEC2Ederryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...
>> "Sean"  wrote in
>> news:d8op3n$3t0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any
>>> doubt that it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised
>>> at how accurate it is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope
>>> and a bench rest it will group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when
>>> I am using it. It has an excellent trigger, far better than any
>>> other non target rifle I have ever used, and is very solidly built.
>>> I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I
>>> will never sell the HW77.
>>> I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I
>>> seem to remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or
>>> similar. Regards
>>>
>>> Sean
>>
>> According to what I've Googled, the following are all recommended,
>> but I cannot say what the common factor is, though possibly weight:
>>
>> 15.9 grain JSB Extracts
>> H&N Field & Target Trophy.
>> *H&N Barracuda - Extra Heavy
>> *RWS Super domes
>> Bisley Super Field
>>
>> I've tended to make a note of those recommended for hunting. Those
>> marked *
>> were recommended by several reviewers.
>>
> 
> I found them pellets, they were RWS hobby wadcutters in 5.5mm calibre.
> I have never tried them against rabbits, but against paper targets
> they are the best I have used by far.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sean 
> 
> 
> 


The man recommended a tin of Bisley super Field and as it was on my list, I 
did not object.

Started out zeroing the rifle at 16 metres and was grouping about the size 
of a 5p piece just leaning across the bonnet of the Land Rover. Three shots 
went through the same hole! I kid you not! (The shed door is a mess).

Then moved to shooting off the frame on the quad and at 30 metres I was 
getting consistent 1 inch groups! Quite good enough for lamping.

Not bad considering this has turned out to be a Mark I. Had it chrono'ed 
this morning and it is decently below 12ft/lbs and very consistent. The 
serial number is 1003558 so I am assuming it was number 3,558 off the 
production line and made well over 20 years ago!

Shot a woodpigeon out of the kitchen window at about 20 yards tonight. One 
happy owner. Trouble is, I have now got the bug and I am thinking in terms 
of a FAC HW100 for the next acquisition....:(

Derry

Derry Argue wrote:

> "Sean"  wrote in
> news:d8u2kl$643$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk: 
> 
> 
>>"Derry Argue"  wrote in message 
>>news:Xns967682F5FEC2Ederryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...
>>
>>>"Sean"  wrote in
>>>news:d8op3n$3t0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have a HW77K in .22 calibre, and I definitely say without any
>>>>doubt that it is an excellent air rifle. I was genuinely surprised
>>>>at how accurate it is when I use the right pellets. Using a scope
>>>>and a bench rest it will group to within 1" at 25 metres, even when
>>>>I am using it. It has an excellent trigger, far better than any
>>>>other non target rifle I have ever used, and is very solidly built.
>>>>I tend to use the rimfire or .223 most of the time nowadays, but I
>>>>will never sell the HW77.
>>>>I will post back when I remember which type of pellets works best. I
>>>>seem to remember that they were German wad cutters possibly H&N or
>>>>similar. Regards
>>>>
>>>>Sean
>>>
>>>According to what I've Googled, the following are all recommended,
>>>but I cannot say what the common factor is, though possibly weight:
>>>
>>>15.9 grain JSB Extracts
>>>H&N Field & Target Trophy.
>>>*H&N Barracuda - Extra Heavy
>>>*RWS Super domes
>>>Bisley Super Field
>>>
>>>I've tended to make a note of those recommended for hunting. Those
>>>marked *
>>>were recommended by several reviewers.
>>>
>>
>>I found them pellets, they were RWS hobby wadcutters in 5.5mm calibre.
>>I have never tried them against rabbits, but against paper targets
>>they are the best I have used by far.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Sean 
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> The man recommended a tin of Bisley super Field and as it was on my list, I 
> did not object.
> 
> Started out zeroing the rifle at 16 metres and was grouping about the size 
> of a 5p piece just leaning across the bonnet of the Land Rover. Three shots 
> went through the same hole! I kid you not! (The shed door is a mess).
> 
> Then moved to shooting off the frame on the quad and at 30 metres I was 
> getting consistent 1 inch groups! Quite good enough for lamping.
> 
> Not bad considering this has turned out to be a Mark I. Had it chrono'ed 
> this morning and it is decently below 12ft/lbs and very consistent. The 
> serial number is 1003558 so I am assuming it was number 3,558 off the 
> production line and made well over 20 years ago!
> 
> Shot a woodpigeon out of the kitchen window at about 20 yards tonight. One 
> happy owner. Trouble is, I have now got the bug and I am thinking in terms 
> of a FAC HW100 for the next acquisition....:(
> 
> Derry


I picked up a .25 Super sport not long ago. The problem is that the 
rifle literally throws scopes of the rail! So I had to invest in a new 
one piece mount (40) then there was BSA volumetric silencer (25), the 
scope (30) and the rifle set me back (95). I choronographed the rifle 
and it produces 12 ft-lbs ban on with 18 grain pellets. One groups at 20 
yds and it knocks rats for six! My guess is that it'll be great for 
lamping but at a total cost of 190 I think I should have invested in a 
..308 P&H :(

John

On 17 Jun 2005 19:33:28 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:



>Started out zeroing the rifle at 16 metres and was grouping about the size 
>of a 5p piece just leaning across the bonnet of the Land Rover. Three shots 
>went through the same hole! I kid you not! (The shed door is a mess).
>

	It inspires confidence when a new 'toy' does
the business right from the beginning, doesn't it?


>Not bad considering this has turned out to be a Mark I. Had it chrono'ed 
>this morning and it is decently below 12ft/lbs and very consistent. 


	As long as there's enough power for a clean
kill it's that shot to shot consistency that counts
with an air rifle.


>Shot a woodpigeon out of the kitchen window at about 20 yards tonight. One 
>happy owner. Trouble is, I have now got the bug and I am thinking in terms 
>of a FAC HW100 for the next acquisition....:(
>

	Hooked ;-)

	Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in 
news:e6f6b1phtpkjgvci0og3enjthco6lcpkni@4ax.com:


>      It inspires confidence when a new 'toy' does
> the business right from the beginning, doesn't it?


Tweaked the trigger up from about 3/4lb to 1.5lb this evening. This rifle, 
in spite of a few odd patches of surface rust, has clearly been looked 
after by someone. I am not used to removing screws to find BOTH sets of 
original washers still there after 20+ years! Playing this evening, I was 
putting pellets through an 1/2 inch thick telephone directory!

Derry

On 17 Jun 2005 23:06:22 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>Tweaked the trigger up from about 3/4lb to 1.5lb this evening. This rifle, 
>in spite of a few odd patches of surface rust, has clearly been looked 
>after by someone. I am not used to removing screws to find BOTH sets of 
>original washers still there after 20+ years! Playing this evening, I was 
>putting pellets through an 1/2 inch thick telephone directory!
>

	Sounds as if you've struck lucky.  You've got
your hands on the semi-mythical 'well used but not
abused' specimen.  Nicely 'run in' and probably fit to
go another 20 years with little more than an occasional
new spring.

	Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

J Craggs  wrote in
news:t5p6b15jlpav8l3sb2ad0kq81rpc06c7nr@4ax.com: 


> On 17 Jun 2005 23:06:22 GMT, Derry Argue
>  wrote:
> 
>>Tweaked the trigger up from about 3/4lb to 1.5lb this evening. This
>>rifle, in spite of a few odd patches of surface rust, has clearly been
>>looked after by someone. I am not used to removing screws to find BOTH
>>sets of original washers still there after 20+ years! Playing this
>>evening, I was putting pellets through an 1/2 inch thick telephone
>>directory! 
>>
>      Sounds as if you've struck lucky.  You've got
> your hands on the semi-mythical 'well used but not
> abused' specimen.  Nicely 'run in' and probably fit to
> go another 20 years with little more than an occasional
> new spring.
> 
>      Gyppo
> 
> John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
>                and All-Round Rogue
> Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
> mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.
> 


Yeah, but that has put paid to a series of fun session of tweaking, hasn't 
it?<g>

Derry
(Inveterate tweaker)

On 18 Jun 2005 11:56:10 GMT, Derry Argue
 wrote:


>Yeah, but that has put paid to a series of fun session of tweaking, hasn't 
>it?<g>
>
>Derry
>(Inveterate tweaker)


	Not at all ;-)  All you need to find now is
ananothjer air rifle.  An 'abused but still
serviceable' one that most dealers would consign to the
scrap bin, and then tweak away to your heart's content.
You wouldn't feel bad about doing some of the more
drastic stuff (barrel shortening, etc) that you'd hate
to do to a good one.

	Gyppo 

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
               and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

Air Rifles are pathetic.




Bottom line.

I spent several thousands of pounds on an HW100 PCP .22, I bought MANY
upgrades for it, and at the end of the day, it's still a bloody air rifle.

It annoys me that for the amount of money I've had to spend to bring my air
rifle up to a standard that I can effectively dispatch rabbits and pidgeons
(over a yearly spectrum of shooting), I could have bought several top-notch
..22 rimfire rifles that have both the power AND range to get those bunnies.

I imagine that I will be upsetting a fair few people with my wayward
comments, but when was the last time you 'saw' the projectile from your gun
exiting the barrel ? Answer : When you're using an air rifle.

I have found out to my dismay that (air rifles) across the board NEVER
produce the results you were hoping for, unless you want to shoot at tin
cans at point blank in the back garden. Ok maybe that's not fair, but anyone
who seriously shoots with an air rifle will know about those frustrating
ranged shots that (admit it!) you'll never make.

My advice to anyone thinking about buying into air rifles is thus :

Learn how to shoot with one; SHOOT with something else.


Get a .22 rimfire, it's all you'll ever need for shooting anything up to the
size of a Deer (possibly I'd think twice about shooting a fox with one, I
doubt it would bring the animal down in one) but everything else is fair
game, .22 rimfire gives you the flat trajectory AND the range you've been
hoping for, AND at a fraction of the cost of a new PCP air rifle!  You're
still talking 550 / 600 pounds from a decent gunsmith for an HW100, which is
in all fairness, one of the best pcp air rifles out there, AND IT STILL
SUCKS !   (what's that you say ? get an FAC rated gun ? )

sure thing, enjoy your five shots before you've got to recharge it !

FAC Springers, ok maybe they don't run out as quickly as the PCP (sic) but
they've got almost as much kick as a 8 bore shotgun, so 'following through'
with your shot is near impossible.

Damn it all and get a rimfire with a moderator on the end, superb "small
game" hunting ! 














in article toe8b1tfk5jcbbh6t7o1gmsgjppqtdt00c@4ax.com, J Craggs at
gyppo1@NOSPAMPLEASEOLDCHAPntlworld.com wrote on 18/6/05 4:31 pm:


> On 18 Jun 2005 11:56:10 GMT, Derry Argue
>  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, but that has put paid to a series of fun session of tweaking, hasn't
>> it?<g>
>> 
>> Derry
>> (Inveterate tweaker)
> 
> Not at all ;-)  All you need to find now is
> ananothjer air rifle.  An 'abused but still
> serviceable' one that most dealers would consign to the
> scrap bin, and then tweak away to your heart's content.
> You wouldn't feel bad about doing some of the more
> drastic stuff (barrel shortening, etc) that you'd hate
> to do to a good one.
> 
> Gyppo 
> 
> John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
> and All-Round Rogue
> Need a laugh?  Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
> mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com  With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

stu|3 wrote:


> I imagine that I will be upsetting a fair few people with my wayward
> comments,


No not really. As a matter of fact I for one am rather amused.

John

stu|3  wrote in news:BF473D52.52A%stu@td4.net:


> Get a .22 rimfire, it's all you'll ever need for shooting anything up
> to the size of a Deer (possibly I'd think twice about shooting a fox
> with one, I doubt it would bring the animal down in one) but
> everything else is fair game, 


Well, I have rabbits appearing on the lawn. I COULD shoot them with the 
..22LR -- but if I did that, I would be shooting towards the road. Instead, 
I leave the window open and pop them when I get up first thing in the 
morning with the HW77. But, yes, I agree. Rabbits need to be shot in the 
head or they keep on going.

Where I live, it is dead flat. I go round at night shooting rabbits off the 
quad with the .22LR, but I am never really happy because it is so flat. And 
the .22 does ricochet. Oh, it is safe or I wouldn't do it. But...

I am still toying with the idea of a FAC .22 Rapid. But all the ones I've 
seen advertised are either left handers or "immaculate condition".Then 
there is the new legislation. Will there be so many "free to good home" 
that I will have to beat them of with a stick? OK, twist my arm. I'll give 
you a couple of quid for one AND pay postage....

Derry

Fair enough :-) 

Shooting towards a road, an air-rifle IS probably the best bet, good luck
with that, a friend of mine just bought an webley longbow spring powered
rifle, and I must say, as springers go, it doesn't seem too bad, the snub
nose silencer on the end seems a bit pointless, as did the ported
muzzle-break that came supplied with the rifle.

An update : 

I purchased the single shot adapter for the HW100 and it's a superbly
engineered bit of kit, if you own a Weirauch HW100, get one.
Again, too bad it's on my air rifle... :-)

There's also a nice new sort of copper plated .22 diabolo type slugs out
there, I've shot with them and I must say they're not bad... probably be
better in a FAC rated weapon as they're a 'sniff on the heavy side', however
(ala my previous rant) with air rifle shooting and the ranges you deal with,
I just keep on buying different types of slug to 'test' them out.
So far I've found .22 Superpoint Extra slugs are pretty impressive 'across
the board' (i.e. work well with any type of .22 rifle), they fly nice and
flat, don't weigh much and provide some excellent penetration capabilities,
however, sometimes they tend to go right through the target and keep
going... (that horrible hollow thump, you know it right?)

I'd go out on a limb and say "Weihrauch air rifles are the best"

I have considered many rifles in my time and the HW series are the best
engineered yet, the Super16's (although I've never owned one) get a bad
press from every gunsmith I visit.

I did consider a BSA Superten Bull-barrel carbine, nice action, however the
integrally silenced barrel is a little on the heavy side, looks good though.

I'm glad I settled for the Weirauch HW100, superb side lever action, no
double-loading (rifle is engineered so that you'd have to work pretty hard
to load two rounds), superb accuracy, ambidextrous stock.

The silencer (which is heat-treated onto the barrel) -could- have done with
a screw on / screw off arrangement as changing it to a better one ( the
silencer supplied is merely... ok) requires some work by your gunsmith, I
wouldn't like to try it myself.


Damn air rifles... :-)





in article Xns96CCD5CAF46E8derryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4, Derry Argue at
home@adviegundogs.co.uk wrote on 9/9/05 8:58 pm:


> stu|3  wrote in news:BF473D52.52A%stu@td4.net:
> 
>> Get a .22 rimfire, it's all you'll ever need for shooting anything up
>> to the size of a Deer (possibly I'd think twice about shooting a fox
>> with one, I doubt it would bring the animal down in one) but
>> everything else is fair game,
> 
> Well, I have rabbits appearing on the lawn. I COULD shoot them with the
> .22LR -- but if I did that, I would be shooting towards the road. Instead,
> I leave the window open and pop them when I get up first thing in the
> morning with the HW77. But, yes, I agree. Rabbits need to be shot in the
> head or they keep on going.
> 
> Where I live, it is dead flat. I go round at night shooting rabbits off the
> quad with the .22LR, but I am never really happy because it is so flat. And
> the .22 does ricochet. Oh, it is safe or I wouldn't do it. But...
> 
> I am still toying with the idea of a FAC .22 Rapid. But all the ones I've
> seen advertised are either left handers or "immaculate condition".Then
> there is the new legislation. Will there be so many "free to good home"
> that I will have to beat them of with a stick? OK, twist my arm. I'll give
> you a couple of quid for one AND pay postage....
> 
> Derry

stu|3  wrote in news:BF4B1336.65F%stu@td4.net:


> Shooting towards a road, an air-rifle IS probably the best bet,


....and up into the air.

Not sure if shooting young rooks is still legal but I intend to give my 
local rookery a pasting next year in revenge for their cleaning out the 
pheasant feeders! I would not care to do that with a .22LR.

Yes, the Weirauch has a very good reputation. I did a fair bit of research 
before getting the 77 and I am impressed, except for the lack of knock-down 
capabilities on rabbits.

I would like to try the Rapid in FAC. I am seeing occasional hot spots for 
rabbits from the car window where they are back to 1950's plague 
proportions!

Derry

Good luck with that old boy !

Funny you should mention the words 'plauge' and 'rabbits', I've been
thinking the same thing around here in Northumberland. I've tagged more with
my trusty 'benz in the last week that I have going out shooting them!
They're throwing themselves into the road willingly !

Jokes aside however, I do agree that the population is reaching the 'well
stocked' level and we should band together and take one last stand lest the
'big rats' move in and take our right to vote !

I read an interesting article in an issue of 'Air Gunner' that claimed a
recipe for 'bunny bait' some form of carrot / herbal mash as I recall, i
never did try it out as it was published earlier in the year and 'baiting'
them seemed like a waste of time, however, as the autumn and (oh so long)
winter months begin to set in who knows what I shall have to resort to...

Gurella tactics ? I once saw a man ignite a 'smoke bomb' (it was like a
small pellet of chalk you wrapped in a sheet of newspaper?, don't know what
that stuff is, same as what the british gas chap uses to test the chimney
though) and lob that down a warren, the results were spectacular, and I
watched in amazement as the bunnies (and smoke) poured forth from the many
interconnecting holes of the warren. I don't know if they would ever go back
in after that kind of treatment ? It did demonstrate the scope of this
particular warren and was interesting to see where the holes were in
relation to 'the one you found'. Of course this wasn't being done in any
kind of sporting sense, it was merely an effort to try and drive out vermin.




in article Xns96CF84D0EC722derryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4, Derry Argue at
home@adviegundogs.co.uk wrote on 12/9/05 1:00 pm:


> stu|3  wrote in news:BF4B1336.65F%stu@td4.net:
> 
>> Shooting towards a road, an air-rifle IS probably the best bet,
> 
> ...and up into the air.
> 
> Not sure if shooting young rooks is still legal but I intend to give my
> local rookery a pasting next year in revenge for their cleaning out the
> pheasant feeders! I would not care to do that with a .22LR.
> 
> Yes, the Weirauch has a very good reputation. I did a fair bit of research
> before getting the 77 and I am impressed, except for the lack of knock-down
> capabilities on rabbits.
> 
> I would like to try the Rapid in FAC. I am seeing occasional hot spots for
> rabbits from the car window where they are back to 1950's plague
> proportions!
> 
> Derry