1996 Nissan Primera 1.6

I bought some filters for the above yesterday, from a main dealer. The fuel 
filter I've been given is a plastic one and is marked with the engine code 
for the carburettor model. Although it would fit, I'm concerned that it may 
not be safe due to the higher fuel pressure of a fuel injected system.

Will it be safe to use, or should I go back to the dealer on monday and 
yell at them for supplying me with an unsuitable (and potentially 
dangerous) part?


-- 
Stuart Sharp

hairy.biker@spamcop.net (Andy Hewitt) wrote in
news:1gy1ioq.fqfy4kk1jg3eN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net: 


> I would certainly buy the proper part, don't even consider fitting a
> plastic one, unless it was designed for the job. I have known of even
> the metal ones to split.
> 


Thanks for that, Andy. I'll be sure to complain about being given the wrong 
one. Unlike many cars, this fuel filter lives in the engine bay. Imagine if 
I'd fitted the plastic one and it had burst, spraying petrol over the hot 
engine!

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message 
news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...

>
> Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
> not a typo).
>


Ouch!!!   29000psi...

(And yes I did have to go check with the Bosch website before I believed it 
wasn't a typo!!)

In article <1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net>,
   Andy Hewitt  wrote:

> Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
> not a typo).


Crikey. ;-)

-- 
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > I would certainly buy the proper part, don't even consider fitting a
> > plastic one, unless it was designed for the job. I have known of even
> > the metal ones to split.
> > 

> Thanks for that, Andy. I'll be sure to complain about being given the
> wrong one. Unlike many cars, this fuel filter lives in the engine bay.
> Imagine if I'd fitted the plastic one and it had burst, spraying petrol
> over the hot engine!


It would be possible to make an injection filter out of plastic. On my
car, some of the fuel lines are indeed plastic. Then there are the
'rubber' hoses to connect to the injectors.

The pressure isn't *that* high - only perhaps 2/3 times or so that found
in the cooling system, where plastic is common in some modern cars.

However, you're right to want the correct replacement.

-- 
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

over the hot engine!

>>
>> It would be possible to make an injection filter out of plastic. On my
>> car, some of the fuel lines are indeed plastic. Then there are the
>> 'rubber' hoses to connect to the injectors.
>
> These are reinforced though. Even so, there was a known issue on BMW
> bikes where the filter casing would split, despite being in-line in
> rubber hoses. This was simply brought about by stamping the part number
> on, later ones were printed. Fortunately these were located inside the
> fuel tank.
>
> Of course the volume of fuel under pressure is much less in the pipe
> than in the filter, the surface area under stress is massively
> different. A single square inch in the pipe is not as concentrated as on
> the casing of the filter.
>


That's essentially the issue, The stress n a thin walled pipe or filter =  
pressure x radius / wall thickness, for a filter the pressure is the same  
but the radius is 10 times larger & 20mm thick plastic walls would be  
expensive.

"PC Paul"  wrote in message
news:%yYqe.145287$g12.14380@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
> news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
> >
> > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
> > not a typo).
> >
>
> Ouch!!!   29000psi...
>



thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI petrol!
(which run at around 45-50psi max)

Tim..

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:17:55 +0100, Tim..  
 wrote:


>
> "PC Paul"  wrote in message
> news:%yYqe.145287$g12.14380@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
>> news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
>> >
>> > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
>> > not a typo).
>> >
>>
>> Ouch!!!   29000psi...
>>
>
>
> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI petrol!
> (which run at around 45-50psi max)
>
> Tim..
>
>



& you don't fit a fuel filter on the high pressure side of diesel.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:29:24 +0100, Andy Hewitt   
wrote:


> Tim..  wrote:
>
>> "PC Paul"  wrote in message
>> news:%yYqe.145287$g12.14380@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >
>> > "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
>> > news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
>> > >
>> > > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar  
>> (that's
>> > > not a typo).
>> > >
>> >
>> > Ouch!!!   29000psi...
>> >
>>
>>
>> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI petrol!
>> (which run at around 45-50psi max)
>
> Go check again.
>


I've not seen a non direct injection petrol system that runs at over  
100psi, what on earth does?

Duncan Wood (spam@dmx512.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : 


>>> > > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar  

>>> > Ouch!!!   29000psi...

>>> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI
>>> petrol! (which run at around 45-50psi max)

>> Go check again.

> I've not seen a non direct injection petrol system that runs at over  
> 100psi, what on earth does?


That's why Andy specifically said "direct injection"...

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:10:28 +0100, Adrian  wrote:


> Duncan Wood (spam@dmx512.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> were saying :
>
>>>> > > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar
>
>>>> > Ouch!!!   29000psi...
>
>>>> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI
>>>> petrol! (which run at around 45-50psi max)
>
>>> Go check again.
>
>> I've not seen a non direct injection petrol system that runs at over
>> 100psi, what on earth does?
>
> That's why Andy specifically said "direct injection"...



They don't pressurise the fuel filter though.

"Duncan Wood"  wrote in message
news:op.sr95vuplpjbtie@amy...

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:29:24 +0100, Andy Hewitt 
> wrote:
>
> > Tim..  wrote:
> >
> >> "PC Paul"  wrote in message
> >> news:%yYqe.145287$g12.14380@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >> >
> >> > "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
> >> > news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
> >> > >
> >> > > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar
> >> (that's
> >> > > not a typo).
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Ouch!!!   29000psi...
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI
petrol!
> >> (which run at around 45-50psi max)
> >
> > Go check again.
> >
>
> I've not seen a non direct injection petrol system that runs at over
> 100psi, what on earth does?


Even on direct petrol injection engines (FSI, GDI, Fords HPI etc etc) the
charge pressure - i.e. that supplied by the electric pump in or near the
tank, pressure is less than 60psi. There is no user replacable fuel filter
in the high pressure circuit. (i..e after the secondary high pressure pump)

Tim..

Duncan Wood  wrote:

<Snipped Text>


> That's essentially the issue, The stress n a thin walled pipe or filter =
> pressure x radius / wall thickness, for a filter the pressure is the same
> but the radius is 10 times larger & 20mm thick plastic walls would be
> expensive.


Exactly.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Tim..  wrote:


> "PC Paul"  wrote in message
> news:%yYqe.145287$g12.14380@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
> > news:1gy1wbg.cplt981pndofhN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
> > >
> > > Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
> > > not a typo).
> > >
> >
> > Ouch!!!   29000psi...
> >
> 
> 
> thats the injection pressure on a common rail diesel, not an EFI petrol!
> (which run at around 45-50psi max)


Go check again.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Stu  wrote:


> 1996 Nissan Primera 1.6
> 
> I bought some filters for the above yesterday, from a main dealer. The fuel
> filter I've been given is a plastic one and is marked with the engine code
> for the carburettor model. Although it would fit, I'm concerned that it may
> not be safe due to the higher fuel pressure of a fuel injected system.
> 
> Will it be safe to use, or should I go back to the dealer on monday and
> yell at them for supplying me with an unsuitable (and potentially 
> dangerous) part?


I would certainly buy the proper part, don't even consider fitting a
plastic one, unless it was designed for the job. I have known of even
the metal ones to split.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Stu  wrote:


> hairy.biker@spamcop.net (Andy Hewitt) wrote in
> news:1gy1ioq.fqfy4kk1jg3eN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net: 
> 
> > I would certainly buy the proper part, don't even consider fitting a
> > plastic one, unless it was designed for the job. I have known of even
> > the metal ones to split.
> > 
> 
> Thanks for that, Andy. I'll be sure to complain about being given the wrong
> one. Unlike many cars, this fuel filter lives in the engine bay. Imagine if
> I'd fitted the plastic one and it had burst, spraying petrol over the hot
> engine!


Indeed. As a rule, carb systems run at no more than 1 Bar, but injection
(on indirect systems) can be as much as 5 Bar. Not only that, but older
systems, with a mechanical fuel pump, might even have negative pressure.

Modern direct injection systems can be anything up to 2000 Bar (that's
not a typo).

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote:


> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
> > > I would certainly buy the proper part, don't even consider fitting a
> > > plastic one, unless it was designed for the job. I have known of even
> > > the metal ones to split.
> > > 
> 
> > Thanks for that, Andy. I'll be sure to complain about being given the
> > wrong one. Unlike many cars, this fuel filter lives in the engine bay.
> > Imagine if I'd fitted the plastic one and it had burst, spraying petrol
> > over the hot engine!
> 
> It would be possible to make an injection filter out of plastic. On my
> car, some of the fuel lines are indeed plastic. Then there are the
> 'rubber' hoses to connect to the injectors.


These are reinforced though. Even so, there was a known issue on BMW
bikes where the filter casing would split, despite being in-line in
rubber hoses. This was simply brought about by stamping the part number
on, later ones were printed. Fortunately these were located inside the
fuel tank.

Of course the volume of fuel under pressure is much less in the pipe
than in the filter, the surface area under stress is massively
different. A single square inch in the pipe is not as concentrated as on
the casing of the filter.


> The pressure isn't *that* high - only perhaps 2/3 times or so that found
> in the cooling system, where plastic is common in some modern cars.


It's enough, a carb model may run at 1 Bar (about 15psi), but even a
modest injection system may run at 40psi. That's only if you use an
electric fuel pump on the carb too.

Over the tens of thousands of miles that the filter is used, the extra
stress could be critical.


> However, you're right to want the correct replacement.


Indeed.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)