Hi all.

Long winded question for you lot...

I've got a 2003 Mk 3 Mondeo TDCI. Was in a low speed bump (at a roundabout) 
about 6 weeks ago. Needed a new bumper & cross-member behind the bumper.

These were replaced.

Immediately after the accident, a resonance started. At about 1500, 1750 
and 2000 RPM, there was a "buzzing" from somewhere up front, which sounded 
like a loose body panel. This resonance could be felt through the bulkhead 
and steering wheel. This could be felt at idle and while driving.

After the car was repaired, the resonance at idle stopped, and while 
driving was much better, but not gone. It manifests itself at partial and 
light engine load, e.g. driving flat out is no problem, decelerating is no 
problem, but keeping the same speed on a slight incline is enough to start 
it.

Took it back, and they fitted a "sound deadener" (a bit of polystyrene 
wedged between the cross member and the bumper which was there originally, 
but they didn't replace). This made it better still, but there's still some 
resonance.

I've fiddled around with the spacing of this wedge (because it wasn't 
pushed flush against the bumper), which may or may not have had any effect.

The resonance is still there, but it's now been joined by the smell of 
roasting clutch lining. It's *not* the brakes, because I've sniffed them, 
and they're fine. There's a strong smell in the engine bay, above the 
gearbox/bell housing, and from the passenger side wheel arch.

There *may* also be a "strange" noise accompanying the resonance (perhaps 
it got lonely). It's a sort of quiet grindy shusshing noise, a sort of 
"worn differential" type noise. Not a whine, but the sort of noise you may 
get between two slightly worn gears when there's no load going through 
them, as the teeth slap against each other. (Sounds like the Welsh phoneme 
"ch" as is Coch, sort of like someone clearing out the back of their 
throat!)

This engine has a dual mass flywheel.

Do these fail in a way that causes resonance when driving at partial or 
very light load? Do they tend to smoke clutches when they fail? Could a low 
speed bump have damaged it, or is it purely coincidence? The smell only 
started this week, 5 weeks after the accident.

If the garage rode the clutch when they had it, how long would the smell be 
likely to last? We're getting up to about 5 days now.

TIA.

Pete.

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Pete Smith wrote:

> Hi all.
> 
> Long winded question for you lot...
> 
>> This engine has a dual mass flywheel.

<snip>
> 
> Do these fail in a way that causes resonance when driving at partial or 
> very light load? Do they tend to smoke clutches when they fail? Could a low 
> speed bump have damaged it, or is it purely coincidence? The smell only 
> started this week, 5 weeks after the accident.
> 
> If the garage rode the clutch when they had it, how long would the smell be 
> likely to last? We're getting up to about 5 days now.
> 
> TIA.
> 
> Pete.
> 


Oh dear. It does sound like the clutch me. Now, that is going to be 
expensive. Do a google on "dual mass flywheel".
As whether the accident broke it, the garage broke it or its wear and 
tear I can't help on that bit.
Dave

In article <42ac1709$0$17037$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>, 
daspam@hotspam.com says...

> Pete Smith wrote:
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > Long winded question for you lot...
> > 
> >> This engine has a dual mass flywheel.
> 
> <snip>
> > 
> > Do these fail in a way that causes resonance when driving at partial or 
> > very light load? Do they tend to smoke clutches when they fail? Could a low 
> > speed bump have damaged it, or is it purely coincidence? The smell only 
> > started this week, 5 weeks after the accident.
> > 
> > If the garage rode the clutch when they had it, how long would the smell be 
> > likely to last? We're getting up to about 5 days now.
> > 
> > TIA.
> > 
> > Pete.
> > 
> 
> Oh dear. It does sound like the clutch me. Now, that is going to be 
> expensive. Do a google on "dual mass flywheel".


I have done, and the symptoms I'm experiencing don't seem to match up to 
the symptoms I've seen online.

My resonance isn't a harsh one, and it's at "high" revs, not at idle/low 
revs.

From what I've seen, when the DMF goes south, it normally manifests itself 
as feeling like a misfire at low revs, and uneven driving, which goes away 
at high revs.


> As whether the accident broke it, the garage broke it or its wear and 
> tear I can't help on that bit.


The other odd thing is that the clutch isn't slipping either. It just 
smells. It's noticeable from outside the car. It *was* fine, went to the 
garage, and came back smelling. I thought it was the dead pigeon by the 
side of the road, so didn't think anything of it, until I got to work, and 
realised the smell was still there.

Pete.

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"Pete Smith"  wrote in message
news:MPG.1d1557c6b8bc9ae5989703@usenet.plus.net...

> Hi all.
>
> Long winded question for you lot...
>
> I've got a 2003 Mk 3 Mondeo TDCI. Was in a low speed bump (at a
roundabout)
> about 6 weeks ago. Needed a new bumper & cross-member behind the bumper.
>
> These were replaced.
>
> Immediately after the accident, a resonance started. At about 1500, 1750
> and 2000 RPM, there was a "buzzing" from somewhere up front, which sounded
> like a loose body panel. This resonance could be felt through the bulkhead
> and steering wheel. This could be felt at idle and while driving.
>
> After the car was repaired, the resonance at idle stopped, and while
> driving was much better, but not gone. It manifests itself at partial and
> light engine load, e.g. driving flat out is no problem, decelerating is no
> problem, but keeping the same speed on a slight incline is enough to start
> it.
>
> Took it back, and they fitted a "sound deadener" (a bit of polystyrene
> wedged between the cross member and the bumper which was there originally,
> but they didn't replace). This made it better still, but there's still
some
> resonance.
>
> I've fiddled around with the spacing of this wedge (because it wasn't
> pushed flush against the bumper), which may or may not have had any
effect.
>
> The resonance is still there, but it's now been joined by the smell of
> roasting clutch lining. It's *not* the brakes, because I've sniffed them,
> and they're fine. There's a strong smell in the engine bay, above the
> gearbox/bell housing, and from the passenger side wheel arch.
>
> There *may* also be a "strange" noise accompanying the resonance (perhaps
> it got lonely). It's a sort of quiet grindy shusshing noise, a sort of
> "worn differential" type noise. Not a whine, but the sort of noise you may
> get between two slightly worn gears when there's no load going through
> them, as the teeth slap against each other. (Sounds like the Welsh phoneme
> "ch" as is Coch, sort of like someone clearing out the back of their
> throat!)
>
> This engine has a dual mass flywheel.
>
> Do these fail in a way that causes resonance when driving at partial or
> very light load? Do they tend to smoke clutches when they fail? Could a
low
> speed bump have damaged it, or is it purely coincidence? The smell only
> started this week, 5 weeks after the accident.
>
> If the garage rode the clutch when they had it, how long would the smell
be
> likely to last? We're getting up to about 5 days now.
>
> TIA.
>
> Pete.
>
> -- 
> NOTE! Email address is spamtrapped. Any email will be deleted
> Remove the news and underscore from my address to reply by mail


Theres something about the clutches on the mk3 failing,www.fordmondeo.org
will help as some of them work for ford and know about the recalls etc and
the faults your'e having.
I use them and find them very helpfull

"Pete Smith"  wrote in message
news:MPG.1d163dcf96c96e57989705@usenet.plus.net...

> In article <42ac1709$0$17037$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
> daspam@hotspam.com says...
> > Pete Smith wrote:
> > > Hi all.
> > >
> > > Long winded question for you lot...
> > >
> > >> This engine has a dual mass flywheel.
> >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > Do these fail in a way that causes resonance when driving at partial
or
> > > very light load? Do they tend to smoke clutches when they fail? Could
a low
> > > speed bump have damaged it, or is it purely coincidence? The smell
only
> > > started this week, 5 weeks after the accident.
> > >
> > > If the garage rode the clutch when they had it, how long would the
smell be
> > > likely to last? We're getting up to about 5 days now.
> > >
> > > TIA.
> > >
> > > Pete.
> > >
> >
> > Oh dear. It does sound like the clutch me. Now, that is going to be
> > expensive. Do a google on "dual mass flywheel".
>
> I have done, and the symptoms I'm experiencing don't seem to match up to
> the symptoms I've seen online.
>
> My resonance isn't a harsh one, and it's at "high" revs, not at idle/low
> revs.
>
> From what I've seen, when the DMF goes south, it normally manifests itself
> as feeling like a misfire at low revs, and uneven driving, which goes away
> at high revs.



Definately sounds like the DMF has broken up and the two halves are not
firmly fixed together as they should be (there is basically a rubber
sandwich between)  Its becoming pretty common on the 2 litre (in the mondeo
and tranny) for the DMF to break up and Ford are recommending it to be
replaced with the clutch, although i've heard of several going south at
around the 30k mile stage. They're around 300UKP to replace too!

Tim..

In article <d8i90l$iu6$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 
the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com says...


> >
> > From what I've seen, when the DMF goes south, it normally manifests itself
> > as feeling like a misfire at low revs, and uneven driving, which goes away
> > at high revs.
> 
> 
> Definately sounds like the DMF has broken up and the two halves are not
> firmly fixed together as they should be (there is basically a rubber
> sandwich between)  Its becoming pretty common on the 2 litre (in the mondeo
> and tranny) for the DMF to break up and Ford are recommending it to be
> replaced with the clutch, although i've heard of several going south at
> around the 30k mile stage. They're around 300UKP to replace too!


Mine hit 30k last week :-/

Oh well. It needs some warranty work doing on the steering rack (it's got 
the "Clunk at low speeds" problem). They can take a look while it's in.

Got 12 months warranty left, and if there's prior failures, I'll see what 
they say. I just need to be 100% sure within myself that it is the DMF, 
because the garage told me that any warranty work that turns out to be non 
warranty, I pay for. I don't really want to pay for a clutch strip down!

As I said above, the symptoms ATM aren't typical for the ones I've seen, 
but 100% of the respondents have mentioned the DMF. The clutch smell has 
now stopped. It's definitely not slipping (top gear, clutch out = rapid 
stall). It's just got this faint resonance.

Thanks.

Pete.

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"Pete Smith"  wrote in message
news:MPG.1d1735295d374663989706@usenet.plus.net...

> In article <d8i90l$iu6$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com says...
>
> > >
> > > From what I've seen, when the DMF goes south, it normally manifests
itself
> > > as feeling like a misfire at low revs, and uneven driving, which goes
away
> > > at high revs.
> >
> >
> > Definately sounds like the DMF has broken up and the two halves are not
> > firmly fixed together as they should be (there is basically a rubber
> > sandwich between)  Its becoming pretty common on the 2 litre (in the
mondeo
> > and tranny) for the DMF to break up and Ford are recommending it to be
> > replaced with the clutch, although i've heard of several going south at
> > around the 30k mile stage. They're around 300UKP to replace too!
>
> Mine hit 30k last week :-/
>
> Oh well. It needs some warranty work doing on the steering rack (it's got
> the "Clunk at low speeds" problem). They can take a look while it's in.
>
> Got 12 months warranty left, and if there's prior failures, I'll see what
> they say. I just need to be 100% sure within myself that it is the DMF,
> because the garage told me that any warranty work that turns out to be non
> warranty, I pay for. I don't really want to pay for a clutch strip down!
>
> As I said above, the symptoms ATM aren't typical for the ones I've seen,
> but 100% of the respondents have mentioned the DMF. The clutch smell has
> now stopped. It's definitely not slipping (top gear, clutch out = rapid
> stall). It's just got this faint resonance.


A faulty DMF will not cause clutch slip.

A good check (tho not 100%) is to put the car in 3rd or 4th gear, handbarke
off and whilst an assistant watches the crank pulley, rock the car forwards
and back. If you can find slack in the transmission, or the crank pulley
does not move, yet the car will move abit back and forth, then you
definately have a problem with the DMF.

Strangely I have a Toyota Rav4 D-4D in at the moment with a suspected failed
DMF too.

Tim..

In article <d8kdvj$mcp$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 
the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com says...

> 

> 
> A faulty DMF will not cause clutch slip.
> 


In that case, I'd suspect garage personnel.

Timeline is...

Drove 13k miles.
No stench.
Bump.
No stench.
Drove 500 miles.
No stench.
Garage.
No stench.
Drove 200 miles.
No stench.
Garage.
Stench.
Drove 7 days.
No stench.


> A good check (tho not 100%) is to put the car in 3rd or 4th gear, handbarke
> off and whilst an assistant watches the crank pulley, rock the car forwards
> and back. If you can find slack in the transmission, or the crank pulley
> does not move, yet the car will move abit back and forth, then you
> definately have a problem with the DMF.


That's an interesting one, thanks. I'll give that a go ASAP.

FWIW, I think I've found the resonance.

It's covered under Ford "TSB 4204".

Resonance in the intercooler pipework. It's a very common problem, and 
there's a lot of annoyed people on the FordMondeo.org forums with the 
problem.

I assumed it was a result of the accident, but the symptoms that everyone's 
reporting are identical to mine "Acceleration from 1000RPM in a high gear, 
there's a loud vibration/rattle" "Vibration at 1200 to 1500" "Vibration at 
1800rpm".

It looks like the bump loosened something, and gave it room to wobble.

I think I need to check with the repair garage tomorrow to see if they 
actually did this work. They said they replaced a sound deadener behind the 
bumper, and 2 plugs in the intercooler pipework. OTOH, they told me they 
replaced the aircon radiator, and it was actually the intercooler :-/

Thanks for the help,

Pete.

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"Pete Smith"  wrote in message
news:MPG.1d17f587b5f4aa36989707@usenet.plus.net...

> In article <d8kdvj$mcp$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com says...
> >
>
> >
> > A faulty DMF will not cause clutch slip.
> >
>
> In that case, I'd suspect garage personnel.
>
> Timeline is...
>
> Drove 13k miles.
> No stench.
> Bump.
> No stench.
> Drove 500 miles.
> No stench.
> Garage.
> No stench.
> Drove 200 miles.
> No stench.
> Garage.
> Stench.
> Drove 7 days.
> No stench.
>
> > A good check (tho not 100%) is to put the car in 3rd or 4th gear,
handbarke
> > off and whilst an assistant watches the crank pulley, rock the car
forwards
> > and back. If you can find slack in the transmission, or the crank pulley
> > does not move, yet the car will move abit back and forth, then you
> > definately have a problem with the DMF.
>
> That's an interesting one, thanks. I'll give that a go ASAP.
>
> FWIW, I think I've found the resonance.
>
> It's covered under Ford "TSB 4204".
>
> Resonance in the intercooler pipework. It's a very common problem, and
> there's a lot of annoyed people on the FordMondeo.org forums with the
> problem.
>
> I assumed it was a result of the accident, but the symptoms that
everyone's
> reporting are identical to mine "Acceleration from 1000RPM in a high gear,
> there's a loud vibration/rattle" "Vibration at 1200 to 1500" "Vibration at
> 1800rpm".
>
> It looks like the bump loosened something, and gave it room to wobble.
>
> I think I need to check with the repair garage tomorrow to see if they
> actually did this work. They said they replaced a sound deadener behind
the
> bumper, and 2 plugs in the intercooler pipework. OTOH, they told me they
> replaced the aircon radiator, and it was actually the intercooler :-/
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Pete.
>
> -- 
> NOTE! Email address is spamtrapped. Any email will be deleted
> Remove the news and underscore from my address to reply by mail


There you go i said the forums would be of use to you,glad youv'e found the
problem and you can go armed with the info so as they carnt try and baffle
you with bullshit.