I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I 
am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer 
or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most 
gratefully received ?
-- 
Oscar

"Oscar fabricant"  wrote in message 
news:a0WOxJAQB4mCFwiW@walkhouse.demon.co.uk...

>I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I am 
>not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer or to 
>apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most gratefully 
>received ?
> -- 
> Oscar


lacquer straight over the paint.

mrcheerful

In article ,
   Oscar fabricant  wrote:

> I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I 
> am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer 
> or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most 
> gratefully received ?


Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.

-- 
*No radio - Already stolen.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4d7362df7ddave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>   Oscar fabricant  wrote:
>> I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I
>> am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer
>> or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most
>> gratefully received ?
>
> Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
> applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.
>


When you use a metallic paint, the tiny metallic particles stand up in the 
paint, the light reflecting from the metal bits gives the interesting visual 
effect of metallic paint, the lacquer fills the gaps and gives a smooth 
surface over the top.  If you sand or flat before lacquer you will get a 
very different effect to the original intent.  Some of the metalflake effect 
paints are so sensitive that a light brush of the hand  before lacquer can 
give a very noticeable mark.

mrcheerful

In message 
          "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote:


>In article ,
>   Oscar fabricant  wrote:
>> I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I 
>> am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer 
>> or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most 
>> gratefully received ?
>
>Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
>applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.
>

Except you don't flat metallic basecoats, you're only supposed to tack
off the dust before applying lacquer on top.

Even lightly flatted, metallic basecoat will still require another mist
of basecoat colour sprayed over the flatted area.

Flatting metallic basecoat can introduce minute scratches that you
may not see until it's lacquered, lacquer will always exaggerate
imperfections never hide them.

Steve,


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

In article <ZxLme.42458$G8.37976@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, mrcheerful 
..  writes

>
>"Oscar fabricant"  wrote in message
>news:a0WOxJAQB4mCFwiW@walkhouse.demon.co.uk...
>>I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I am
>>not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer or to
>>apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most gratefully
>>received ?
>> --
>> Oscar
>
>lacquer straight over the paint.
>
>mrcheerful
>
>

Thanks
-- 
Oscar

In article <QUTme.42576$G8.26805@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, mrcheerful 
..  writes

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
>news:4d7362df7ddave@davenoise.co.uk...
>> In article ,
>>   Oscar fabricant  wrote:
>>> I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I
>>> am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer
>>> or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most
>>> gratefully received ?
>>
>> Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
>> applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.
>>
>
>When you use a metallic paint, the tiny metallic particles stand up in the
>paint, the light reflecting from the metal bits gives the interesting visual
>effect of metallic paint, the lacquer fills the gaps and gives a smooth
>surface over the top.  If you sand or flat before lacquer you will get a
>very different effect to the original intent.  Some of the metalflake effect
>paints are so sensitive that a light brush of the hand  before lacquer can
>give a very noticeable mark.
>
>mrcheerful
>
>

Thanks Again- excellent scientific advice
-- 
Oscar

In article , Stephen Hull 
 writes

>In message 
>          "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote:
>
>>In article ,
>>   Oscar fabricant  wrote:
>>> I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I
>>> am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer
>>> or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most
>>> gratefully received ?
>>
>>Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
>>applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.
>>
>Except you don't flat metallic basecoats, you're only supposed to tack
>off the dust before applying lacquer on top.
>
>Even lightly flatted, metallic basecoat will still require another mist
>of basecoat colour sprayed over the flatted area.
>
>Flatting metallic basecoat can introduce minute scratches that you
>may not see until it's lacquered, lacquer will always exaggerate
>imperfections never hide them.
>
>Steve,
>
>

Thanks Steve
-- 
Oscar

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote in message
news:4d7362df7ddave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>    Oscar fabricant  wrote:
> > I have sprayed a panel on my 1999 Vectra which has a metallic finish . I
> > am not sure whether to polish the area first and the apply the lacquer
> > or to apply the lacquer and then polish the area. Any advice most
> > gratefully received ?
>
> Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry then
> applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little polishing.


If you use wet and dry paper, however fine, on metallic paint you'll bugger
it quite comprehensively. If the finish isn't good enough straight out of
the gun then the problem lies in the preparation or the paint and spraying
technique. Sanding it won't cure anything. The only place for wet and dry in
body repairs is on filler and sometimes on the primer coat before paint goes
on if any imperfections are still visible.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

In message <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
          "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:


>The only place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and
>sometimes on the primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections
>are still visible.


and of course on solid colours ;)

Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

In article <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
   Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:

> > Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry
> > then applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little
> > polishing.

> If you use wet and dry paper, however fine, on metallic paint you'll
> bugger it quite comprehensively. If the finish isn't good enough
> straight out of the gun then the problem lies in the preparation or the
> paint and spraying technique. Sanding it won't cure anything. The only
> place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and sometimes on the
> primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections are still visible.


Strange. I've just done a minor repair on my BMW - Oxford green metallic -
using Halfords mixed to order paint and got rather better results than a
dealer repair done previously. Of course the overall finish on the car is
crap anyway - like most modern water based paints. If you're really saying
having a perfectly smooth base to add coats of paint to isn't the way to
go anymore, fine.

-- 
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4d73e2f0d9dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>   Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
>> > Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry
>> > then applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little
>> > polishing.
>
>> If you use wet and dry paper, however fine, on metallic paint you'll
>> bugger it quite comprehensively. If the finish isn't good enough
>> straight out of the gun then the problem lies in the preparation or the
>> paint and spraying technique. Sanding it won't cure anything. The only
>> place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and sometimes on the
>> primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections are still visible.
>
> Strange. I've just done a minor repair on my BMW - Oxford green metallic -
> using Halfords mixed to order paint and got rather better results than a
> dealer repair done previously. Of course the overall finish on the car is
> crap anyway - like most modern water based paints. If you're really saying
> having a perfectly smooth base to add coats of paint to isn't the way to
> go anymore, fine.


No, you have the most perfect primer coat you can possibly get, but the 
metallic coats on top are left alone.

mrcheerful

Stephen Hull  wrote in message
news:985cdd734d.Steve@btinternet.com...

> In message <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
>           "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >The only place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and
> >sometimes on the primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections
> >are still visible.
>
> and of course on solid colours ;)
>
> Steve.


If you get a run or other imperfection then I suppose so although so far
I've never had to resort to sanding a top coat. Not that I've done a huge
amount of spraying but 25 years ago I bought one of those little electric
airless guns and provided you get the paint viscosity right it's always done
a damn good job for me. Maybe a touch of orange peel every now and then but
at least as good as the OE paint on my Focus which looks like it's been
applied by Outspan.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote in message
news:4d73e2f0d9dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>    Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Best results by sanding the base coat flat with very fine wet or dry
> > > then applying the lacquer. Done carefully, it will need very little
> > > polishing.
>
> > If you use wet and dry paper, however fine, on metallic paint you'll
> > bugger it quite comprehensively. If the finish isn't good enough
> > straight out of the gun then the problem lies in the preparation or the
> > paint and spraying technique. Sanding it won't cure anything. The only
> > place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and sometimes on the
> > primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections are still visible.
>
> Strange. I've just done a minor repair on my BMW - Oxford green metallic -
> using Halfords mixed to order paint and got rather better results than a
> dealer repair done previously. Of course the overall finish on the car is
> crap anyway - like most modern water based paints. If you're really saying
> having a perfectly smooth base to add coats of paint to isn't the way to
> go anymore, fine.


I think I'm saying the opposite - and then leave the top coat well alone.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

In message <429cf336$0$18642$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
          "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:


>
>Stephen Hull  wrote in message
>news:985cdd734d.Steve@btinternet.com...
>> In message <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
>>           "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The only place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and
>> >sometimes on the primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections
>> >are still visible.
>>
>> and of course on solid colours ;)
>>
>> Steve.
>
>If you get a run or other imperfection then I suppose so although so far
>I've never had to resort to sanding a top coat. Not that I've done a huge
>amount of spraying but 25 years ago I bought one of those little electric
>airless guns and provided you get the paint viscosity right it's always done
>a damn good job for me. Maybe a touch of orange peel every now and then but
>at least as good as the OE paint on my Focus which looks like it's been
>applied by Outspan.
>--
>Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
>

You shouldn't need to flat top coat (solid) or lacquer unless to remove
minor imperfections although some paint finishes tend to leave a rough
orange peel finish as standard, It's customary then to flat the whole
car and then polish.
This is only ever done on the final coat of colour or lacquer and is not
practised by the average car manufactures who are not worried about
producing orange peel finishes.

At Rolls Royce motors for example it was common practise to flat the
whole vehicle simply to achieve the mirrored finish.

Steve.



-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

Stephen Hull wrote:

> In message <429cf336$0$18642$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
>           "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Stephen Hull  wrote in message
> >news:985cdd734d.Steve@btinternet.com...
> >> In message <429c9d2a$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
> >>           "Dave Baker" <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The only place for wet and dry in body repairs is on filler and
> >> >sometimes on the primer coat before paint goes on if any imperfections
> >> >are still visible.
> >>
> >> and of course on solid colours ;)
> >>
> >> Steve.
> >
> >If you get a run or other imperfection then I suppose so although so far
> >I've never had to resort to sanding a top coat. Not that I've done a huge
> >amount of spraying but 25 years ago I bought one of those little electric
> >airless guns and provided you get the paint viscosity right it's always done
> >a damn good job for me. Maybe a touch of orange peel every now and then but
> >at least as good as the OE paint on my Focus which looks like it's been
> >applied by Outspan.
> >--
> >Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
> >
> You shouldn't need to flat top coat (solid) or lacquer unless to remove
> minor imperfections although some paint finishes tend to leave a rough
> orange peel finish as standard, It's customary then to flat the whole
> car and then polish.
> This is only ever done on the final coat of colour or lacquer and is not
> practised by the average car manufactures who are not worried about
> producing orange peel finishes.
>
> At Rolls Royce motors for example it was common practise to flat the
> whole vehicle simply to achieve the mirrored finish.
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
> Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
> "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce


So what causes the orange peel effect and how can it be avoided? I have
recently learnt the hard way that you do not rub down metallic top
coats...simply because I read so many conflicting statements on
line...snake oil i say!

But through actual experience I have learnt. Now I am about to rub it
all down and hide my earlier tests by painting the whole car i think.
It was just patches here and there before, but looking at it, it wil be
easier to do the whole lot.

In message 
          "JonnyBoy"  wrote:


>So what causes the orange peel effect and how can it be avoided? I have
>recently learnt the hard way that you do not rub down metallic top
>coats...simply because I read so many conflicting statements on
>line...snake oil i say!
>
>But through actual experience I have learnt. Now I am about to rub it
>all down and hide my earlier tests by painting the whole car i think.
>It was just patches here and there before, but looking at it, it wil be
>easier to do the whole lot.
>

Orange peel can be caused by: 
Paint material being too thick. 
Spraying too close to the surface or passing the gun over too slowly.
Insufficient spray pressure to atomise the paint correctly. 
Incorrect spray gun nozzle size.
All these factors relate to poor flow out.

To obtain the best results all these factors have to be just right.
Spraying the material thin will achieve the best finish even on low
pressure settings and applying several thin coats first then one final
thicker coat is commonly practised, if each layer is applied thinly the
paint has less chance to orange peel.

The pressure settings differ depending on what paint material you use
and if you use a HVLP gun then this is a different animal altogether.

Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

Stephen Hull wrote:

> In message 
>           "JonnyBoy"  wrote:
>
> >So what causes the orange peel effect and how can it be avoided? I have
> >recently learnt the hard way that you do not rub down metallic top
> >coats...simply because I read so many conflicting statements on
> >line...snake oil i say!
> >
> >But through actual experience I have learnt. Now I am about to rub it
> >all down and hide my earlier tests by painting the whole car i think.
> >It was just patches here and there before, but looking at it, it wil be
> >easier to do the whole lot.
> >
> Orange peel can be caused by:
> Paint material being too thick.
> Spraying too close to the surface or passing the gun over too slowly.
> Insufficient spray pressure to atomise the paint correctly.
> Incorrect spray gun nozzle size.
> All these factors relate to poor flow out.
>
> To obtain the best results all these factors have to be just right.
> Spraying the material thin will achieve the best finish even on low
> pressure settings and applying several thin coats first then one final
> thicker coat is commonly practised, if each layer is applied thinly the
> paint has less chance to orange peel.
>
> The pressure settings differ depending on what paint material you use
> and if you use a HVLP gun then this is a different animal altogether.
>
> Steve.
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
> Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
> "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce


Thanks for the reply, very handy.

I am about to give painting a go, as stated, but need to decide what
gun to buy. I am not about to start doing lots of it so buying an
expensive one seems a waste. I have heard about these HVLP guns...how
do these differ to 'normal' guns? Should I try to get a HVLP gun?

Cheers in advance.

In message 
          "JonnyBoy"  wrote:

[snip]


>> To obtain the best results all these factors have to be just right.
>> Spraying the material thin will achieve the best finish even on low
>> pressure settings and applying several thin coats first then one final
>> thicker coat is commonly practised, if each layer is applied thinly the
>> paint has less chance to orange peel.
>>
>> The pressure settings differ depending on what paint material you use
>> and if you use a HVLP gun then this is a different animal altogether.
>>
>> Steve.
>>

>Thanks for the reply, very handy.
>
>I am about to give painting a go, as stated, but need to decide what
>gun to buy. I am not about to start doing lots of it so buying an
>expensive one seems a waste. I have heard about these HVLP guns...how
>do these differ to 'normal' guns? Should I try to get a HVLP gun?
>
>Cheers in advance.
>

An HVLP stands for High Volume Low Pressure, these particular spray guns
are expensive as is a Devilbiss JGA type gun both ideally suited for
most paint materials. 

I would hazard a guess (as it's been a while since I bought one) a
Devilbiss or HVLP gun will now cost you about 200 ukp.

You have to work out the pros & cons as to whether you buy a cheap gun
that might be up to the job or an expensive gun that definitely will
given the correct setup.

HVLP spray guns use less paint, will reduced overspray considerably and
work at much lower pressures.

I would suggest you hire a spray gun if you only intend to use it
occasionally.


Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

Stephen Hull wrote:

> In message 
>           "JonnyBoy"  wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> To obtain the best results all these factors have to be just right.
> >> Spraying the material thin will achieve the best finish even on low
> >> pressure settings and applying several thin coats first then one final
> >> thicker coat is commonly practised, if each layer is applied thinly the
> >> paint has less chance to orange peel.
> >>
> >> The pressure settings differ depending on what paint material you use
> >> and if you use a HVLP gun then this is a different animal altogether.
> >>
> >> Steve.
> >>
>
> >Thanks for the reply, very handy.
> >
> >I am about to give painting a go, as stated, but need to decide what
> >gun to buy. I am not about to start doing lots of it so buying an
> >expensive one seems a waste. I have heard about these HVLP guns...how
> >do these differ to 'normal' guns? Should I try to get a HVLP gun?
> >
> >Cheers in advance.
> >
> An HVLP stands for High Volume Low Pressure, these particular spray guns
> are expensive as is a Devilbiss JGA type gun both ideally suited for
> most paint materials.
>
> I would hazard a guess (as it's been a while since I bought one) a
> Devilbiss or HVLP gun will now cost you about 200 ukp.
>
> You have to work out the pros & cons as to whether you buy a cheap gun
> that might be up to the job or an expensive gun that definitely will
> given the correct setup.
>
> HVLP spray guns use less paint, will reduced overspray considerably and
> work at much lower pressures.
>
> I would suggest you hire a spray gun if you only intend to use it
> occasionally.
>
>
> Steve.
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
> Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
> "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce


OK thanks for that. What about a gravity fed gun? Whats the
disadvantages of them?

"JonnyBoy"  wrote in message 
news:1117656330.812749.260630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
>
> Stephen Hull wrote:
>> In message 
>>           "JonnyBoy"  wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> To obtain the best results all these factors have to be just right.
>> >> Spraying the material thin will achieve the best finish even on low
>> >> pressure settings and applying several thin coats first then one final
>> >> thicker coat is commonly practised, if each layer is applied thinly 
>> >> the
>> >> paint has less chance to orange peel.
>> >>
>> >> The pressure settings differ depending on what paint material you use
>> >> and if you use a HVLP gun then this is a different animal altogether.
>> >>
>> >> Steve.
>> >>
>>
>> >Thanks for the reply, very handy.
>> >
>> >I am about to give painting a go, as stated, but need to decide what
>> >gun to buy. I am not about to start doing lots of it so buying an
>> >expensive one seems a waste. I have heard about these HVLP guns...how
>> >do these differ to 'normal' guns? Should I try to get a HVLP gun?
>> >
>> >Cheers in advance.
>> >
>> An HVLP stands for High Volume Low Pressure, these particular spray guns
>> are expensive as is a Devilbiss JGA type gun both ideally suited for
>> most paint materials.
>>
>> I would hazard a guess (as it's been a while since I bought one) a
>> Devilbiss or HVLP gun will now cost you about 200 ukp.
>>
>> You have to work out the pros & cons as to whether you buy a cheap gun
>> that might be up to the job or an expensive gun that definitely will
>> given the correct setup.
>>
>> HVLP spray guns use less paint, will reduced overspray considerably and
>> work at much lower pressures.
>>
>> I would suggest you hire a spray gun if you only intend to use it
>> occasionally.
>>
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
>> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
>> Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
>> "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
>
> OK thanks for that. What about a gravity fed gun? Whats the
> disadvantages of them?
>


If you have a reasonable compressor just get a normal, cheap suction gun, 
with care you can get excellent results, the gun is not as important as 
technique, gravity guns are better for thick paints and low power 
compressors (IMHO)  I have had excellent results from the cheapest gun, but 
I do prefer a binks bullows gun that I was given, it must have a larger 
nozzle as it seems to put more paint down, much quicker.  You do really need 
to play a fair bit, get plenty of thinners.  A clean dry air supply is 
vital, as are warm dry non draughty conditions.

mrcheerful

In message 
"JonnyBoy"  wrote:

[snip]


>> HVLP spray guns use less paint, will reduced overspray considerably and
>> work at much lower pressures.
>>
>> I would suggest you hire a spray gun if you only intend to use it
>> occasionally.
>>
>
>OK thanks for that. What about a gravity fed gun? Whats the
>disadvantages of them?
>

You'll not notice any significant difference between a gravity feed gun
that has the paint cup on the top to a suction feed that has the paint
cup at the bottom finish wise, They are equally both more than adequate
in producing quality finishes. It's down to preference really.

Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

Well I have opted for a gravity feed. Hopefully mine soon from ebay.
Whether it is good or not I know not. But hopefully it will do the job.

Whats the best way to prep the car? I was thinking of rubbing the old
paint down with 400 or something?

Do I just need to get the old paint to a matt finish? Do I need to
remove the old lacquer? Do I need tp prime the old paint?

I know taking it back to bare metal is the best way, but how does one
do it when just wanting to do a quick 'over the old' job?

In article <429cf336$0$18642$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
   Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:

> If you get a run or other imperfection then I suppose so although so far
> I've never had to resort to sanding a top coat. Not that I've done a
> huge amount of spraying but 25 years ago I bought one of those little
> electric airless guns and provided you get the paint viscosity right
> it's always done a damn good job for me. Maybe a touch of orange peel
> every now and then but at least as good as the OE paint on my Focus
> which looks like it's been applied by Outspan.


It's a real problem trying to get a cheap spray system. But I'd have
thought you already have a decent compressor at work, so could just use a
conventional gun?

I found the airless things just useless.

But the HVLP ones - like Apollo - very very good once you'd got round the
useless instructions. And easily portable for those who don't have a
workshop or garage.

-- 
*Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote in message
news:4d74e60555dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <429cf336$0$18642$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>    Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:
> > If you get a run or other imperfection then I suppose so although so far
> > I've never had to resort to sanding a top coat. Not that I've done a
> > huge amount of spraying but 25 years ago I bought one of those little
> > electric airless guns and provided you get the paint viscosity right
> > it's always done a damn good job for me. Maybe a touch of orange peel
> > every now and then but at least as good as the OE paint on my Focus
> > which looks like it's been applied by Outspan.
>
> It's a real problem trying to get a cheap spray system. But I'd have
> thought you already have a decent compressor at work, so could just use a
> conventional gun?


Well I have a compressor now. I didn't when I was 19 which was when I first
wanted to spray something.


>
> I found the airless things just useless.
>
> But the HVLP ones - like Apollo - very very good once you'd got round the
> useless instructions. And easily portable for those who don't have a
> workshop or garage.


Apollo - that's the very name I'm quite sure without actually digging the
beast out. It must be 15 years since I last used it. I've always thought of
it as an airless spray gun but if in fact it's something else then I stand
corrected. You measured the paint viscosity by timing it running through the
hole in the bottom of a small plastic funnel thingy as I recall and once
that's right you just fill the gun up, plug her in and off you go. Last job
for her was spraying the door of an Alfasud for a mate. His car, black, had
a rusty one and all we could find in breakers yards were good ones of other
colours. Got a good brown one and I already had black paint because that had
been the colour of the job before - one of my motorbike petrol tanks. Hung
the door off the garage rafters after doing a bit of prep on it and blasted
it over and it came up a treat with nary a trace of orange peel. As good as
a proper job but at half the price you might say.

For the pittance I paid for it back in the late 70s it's been one of my
better buys. I can't remember the exact sum but I think it was less than
just the gun for a compressor based system. 30 rings a bell but I could be
wrong. Maybe one day I'll actually get to use it again.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Baker"
<Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> saying something like:


>Apollo - that's the very name I'm quite sure without actually digging the
>beast out. It must be 15 years since I last used it. I've always thought of
>it as an airless spray gun but if in fact it's something else then I stand
>corrected. You measured the paint viscosity by timing it running through the
>hole in the bottom of a small plastic funnel thingy as I recall and once
>that's right you just fill the gun up, plug her in and off you go. Last job
>for her was spraying the door of an Alfasud for a mate. His car, black, had
>a rusty one and all we could find in breakers yards were good ones of other
>colours. Got a good brown one and I already had black paint because that had
>been the colour of the job before - one of my motorbike petrol tanks. Hung
>the door off the garage rafters after doing a bit of prep on it and blasted
>it over and it came up a treat with nary a trace of orange peel. As good as
>a proper job but at half the price you might say.
>
>For the pittance I paid for it back in the late 70s it's been one of my
>better buys. I can't remember the exact sum but I think it was less than
>just the gun for a compressor based system. 30 rings a bell but I could be
>wrong. Maybe one day I'll actually get to use it again.


I've got an old Apollo kicking around - the floor-standing turbine and
the miles of hose - same one? Pity it's got the cheapy plastic gun with
it though. Having said that, it performs surprisingly well.

Bout 25 years ago I used my first HVLP setup, made by Volumair - if you
can lay hands on any of their kit, it's worth getting.
-- 

Dave
SE6a

In article <429fb817$0$18643$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
   Dave Baker <Pumaracing(NoEmails)@aol.com> wrote:

> > I found the airless things just useless.
> >
> > But the HVLP ones - like Apollo - very very good once you'd got round
> > the useless instructions. And easily portable for those who don't have
> > a workshop or garage.

> Apollo - that's the very name I'm quite sure without actually digging
> the beast out. It must be 15 years since I last used it. I've always
> thought of it as an airless spray gun but if in fact it's something else
> then I stand corrected.


Yes. Airless ones use a vibrating diaphragm. The Apollo uses something
akin to a powerful vacuum cleaner running in reverse.


> You measured the paint viscosity by timing it running through the hole
> in the bottom of a small plastic funnel thingy as I recall and once
> that's right you just fill the gun up, plug her in and off you go.


That's how you measure the viscosity of most paints IMHO - but on my
Apollo instructions the viscosity they recommend for cellulose, the most
usable DIY car paint, is just far too thick for top coat. Especially given
the price. It's fine for high build primer, but after careful sanding of
this, I've found something like *half* the viscosity of top coat and
several coats to give better results. And reducing the paint to thinners
ratio even more for the final coat. Of course cellulose can be flatted and
compounded to a fine finish, but at 30 quid a litre for plain colours it
makes sense to get a half decent finish to start with.


> Last job for her was spraying the door of an Alfasud for
> a mate. His car, black, had a rusty one and all we could find in
> breakers yards were good ones of other colours. Got a good brown one and
> I already had black paint because that had been the colour of the job
> before - one of my motorbike petrol tanks. Hung the door off the garage
> rafters after doing a bit of prep on it and blasted it over and it came
> up a treat with nary a trace of orange peel. As good as a proper job but
> at half the price you might say.

> For the pittance I paid for it back in the late 70s it's been one of my
> better buys. I can't remember the exact sum but I think it was less than
> just the gun for a compressor based system. 30 rings a bell but I could
> be wrong. Maybe one day I'll actually get to use it again. 


About 200 quid for the best Apollo these days. As opposed to perhaps 5
times that for a half decent high pressure system. Of course if you have
other uses for a decent compressor then the figures are different.

But I've no real use for a decent compressor as I don't have a garage. And
the HVLP system works better outside.

-- 
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Grimly Curmudgeon  wrote in message
news:0f21a1pe59dr5i2is4a07h16r4u3mfatlq@4ax.com...

> I've got an old Apollo kicking around - the floor-standing turbine and
> the miles of hose - same one? Pity it's got the cheapy plastic gun with
> it though. Having said that, it performs surprisingly well.


That's the one yes.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)