Hello,

Can someone please help...

I am tring to install a dimmer switch.

I have two lights in a room controlled by one switch.

The old switch was wired as follows:-
 L1: Yellow with red tag
 L2: Red
 L3: Blue with black tag

I have bought a dimmer switch with the connections labelled as
follows:-

'Picture of a sine wave with an arrow through it' (lets call it SA), L1
and L2.

First attempt...:-
 SA: Blue with black tag
 L1: Yellow with red tag
 L2: Red
and when I switch the circuit breaker on, it switched straight back
off.

Second attempt...:-
 SA: Yellow with red tag
 L1: Blue with black tag
 L2: Red
and when I switch the circuit breaker on, although the breaker stayed
in place, the switch would not work.

Can someone tell me what should work.

Thanks in advance.
Fred

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message
news:1117481532.856439.233450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help...
>
> I am tring to install a dimmer switch.


<snip loads>

</snip loads>

I apologise if this answer appears rude in any way, but I think you should
leave well alone.

Don

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/dimmer_switches.htm

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message
news:1117481532.856439.233450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help...
>
> I am tring to install a dimmer switch.
>
> I have two lights in a room controlled by one switch.
>
> The old switch was wired as follows:-
>  L1: Yellow with red tag
>  L2: Red
>  L3: Blue with black tag

<<<snipped>>>

>
> Can someone tell me what should work.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Fred
>


Are you sure that all connections were made in the old switch, and that they
were as you say above?  If yes, then the switch is a two configuration that
has two switches, one either end of the room, which control the same lights.
Is this the case?  If so, then the switch you have will not work at all on
this type of wiring configuration.

If you look down this page:
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/lights_and_switches.htm you'll see the
wiring scheme for a two way switching system like yours sound as though it
is.

BigWallop wrote:
<<<snipped>>>

>
> Are you sure that all connections were made in the old switch, and that they
> were as you say above?  If yes, then the switch is a two configuration that
> has two switches, one either end of the room, which control the same lights.
> Is this the case?  If so, then the switch you have will not work at all on
> this type of wiring configuration.
>


I am certain. No, there is no second switch. It's only a 2-year old
property if that helps.

Fred.

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message
news:1117564993.062811.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> BigWallop wrote:
> <<<snipped>>>
> >
> > Are you sure that all connections were made in the old switch, and that
they
> > were as you say above?  If yes, then the switch is a two configuration
that
> > has two switches, one either end of the room, which control the same
lights.
> > Is this the case?  If so, then the switch you have will not work at all
on
> > this type of wiring configuration.
> >
>
> I am certain. No, there is no second switch. It's only a 2-year old
> property if that helps.
>
> Fred.
>


Did you take a look at the web pages on the link I sent?  Did your switch
wiring look like any of the wiring to the common layouts in the pictures?

For the switch to have three terminals all used, it is a two way switching
scheme.  A common single way switch plan, even in two and three gang switch
layouts at the plate, is to have two terminals.  The two terminals will be
marked in either a COM to L1 or L1 to L2 plan inside them.

The switch and connection scheme you describe is for a two way switching
layout, were two switches control one light fitting in the room.  Two way
switching simply works by swapping wires so that the second switch can pick
up a live feed.

Please take a look at the wiring schemes on the
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/lights_and_switches.htm and make note
of how the different switching schemes work.  Then you'll have a better idea
of how to make your system work properly.

Thanks for staying with me so far...

I took a look at the web page and the wiring shown on that page in the
2nd switch of the diagram labelled TWO- AND THREE-WAYSWITCHES, is very
similar to the way it was before I touched anything, except: -

C  = L1 (BTW I just noticed the word COM near the L1 wiring point)
L1 = L3
L2 = L2

So the wiring points are arranged as

                C              L1 (COM)

              L1 L2           L3 L2
             diagram          mine

The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.

I'm not suggesting that the wiring was done brilliantly but I am
certain that there is one switch in the room controlling 2 lights and
it works.

I had thought this would be a really simple query and I just wanted to
avoid trying all the permutations of 3 wires and 3 holes. However, now
I'm a bit confused!

Is my setup really strange? Did the builders/electrician use switch in
an unusual way?

Either way, is it any clearer how to make the dimmer work?

Fred.

Thanks for staying with me so far...

I took a look at the web page and the wiring shown on that page in the
2nd switch of the diagram labelled TWO- AND THREE-WAYSWITCHES, is very
similar to the way it was before I touched anything, except: -

C  = L1 (BTW I just noticed the word COM near the L1 wiring point)
L1 = L3
L2 = L2

So the wiring points are arranged as

                C              L1 (COM)

              L1 L2           L3 L2
             diagram          mine

The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.

I'm not suggesting that the wiring was done brilliantly but I am
certain that there is one switch in the room controlling 2 lights and
it works.

I had thought this would be a really simple query and I just wanted to
avoid trying all the permutations of 3 wires and 3 holes. However, now
I'm a bit confused!

Is my setup really strange? Did the builders/electrician use switch in
an unusual way?

Either way, is it any clearer how to make the dimmer work?

Fred.

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message
news:1117570747.924252.76840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Thanks for staying with me so far...
>
> I took a look at the web page and the wiring shown on that page in the
> 2nd switch of the diagram labelled TWO- AND THREE-WAYSWITCHES, is very
> similar to the way it was before I touched anything, except: -
>
> C  = L1 (BTW I just noticed the word COM near the L1 wiring point)
> L1 = L3
> L2 = L2
>
> So the wiring points are arranged as
>
>                 C              L1 (COM)
>
>               L1 L2           L3 L2
>              diagram          mine
>
> The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.
>
> I'm not suggesting that the wiring was done brilliantly but I am
> certain that there is one switch in the room controlling 2 lights and
> it works.
>
> I had thought this would be a really simple query and I just wanted to
> avoid trying all the permutations of 3 wires and 3 holes. However, now
> I'm a bit confused!
>
> Is my setup really strange? Did the builders/electrician use switch in
> an unusual way?
>
> Either way, is it any clearer how to make the dimmer work?
>
> Fred.
>

Getting a one way dimmer to work on a two switching scheme isn't any clearer
with the wiring plan you say you have at the switch.  How does this switch
control the two lights?  Does it go up for one light and down for the other?
Or is it just on and off when the switch is moved?

You have three wires where there should only be two, so this is why I think
the system is wired for two way switching configuration.  My next bit of
advice is, start looking behind things, or in another room, for another
switch somewhere that also controls these lights, because you've even got me
stumped the way it is now.

Sorry mate, but need more info' on this.

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message 
news:1117570612.497348.211650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Thanks for staying with me so far...
>
> I took a look at the web page and the wiring shown on that page in the
> 2nd switch of the diagram labelled TWO- AND THREE-WAYSWITCHES, is very
> similar to the way it was before I touched anything, except: -
>
> C  = L1 (BTW I just noticed the word COM near the L1 wiring point)
> L1 = L3
> L2 = L2
>
> So the wiring points are arranged as
>
>                C              L1 (COM)
>
>              L1 L2           L3 L2
>             diagram          mine
>
> The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.
>
> I'm not suggesting that the wiring was done brilliantly but I am
> certain that there is one switch in the room controlling 2 lights and
> it works.
>
> I had thought this would be a really simple query and I just wanted to
> avoid trying all the permutations of 3 wires and 3 holes. However, now
> I'm a bit confused!
>
> Is my setup really strange? Did the builders/electrician use switch in
> an unusual way?
>
> Either way, is it any clearer how to make the dimmer work?
>
> Fred.


This may work.

The black ring is the clue. It is (or is identified as neutral by the 
presence of the black tag). Put the blue wire into a piece of strip 
connector and do not use it. Then put the red into L1 and the yellow wire 
into SA on the new switch.

You have probably destroyed the dimmer by now by discharging a large current 
through it's circuitry and so the above may not work. If so then to prove 
(it won't actually prove but it will go some way to showing that you have) 
only have a one way switching system then do the above using L1 and L2 on 
the original switch. ie Do not use the blue wire.

Adam

if you're still alive on Monday, post a reply and i'll tell you what to do.

CG


"Fred Nose"  wrote in message
news:1117564993.062811.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> BigWallop wrote:
> <<<snipped>>>
> >
> > Are you sure that all connections were made in the old switch, and that
they
> > were as you say above?  If yes, then the switch is a two configuration
that
> > has two switches, one either end of the room, which control the same
lights.
> > Is this the case?  If so, then the switch you have will not work at all
on
> > this type of wiring configuration.
> >
>
> I am certain. No, there is no second switch. It's only a 2-year old
> property if that helps.
>
> Fred.
>

I've been away for a while but I'm still alive unlike my dimmer.

The switch switches both lights on and off simultaneously.
No other switch controls these lights.

However...


>>The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.


Whoops, deep embarrassment here...

It's a 2-way .... I saw 1-way marked inside but it is marked next to
the L2 point.

Sorry this was very dim of me :D

Fred.

"BigWallop"  wrote in message 
news:qa7ne.43085$G8.3840@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Fred Nose"  wrote in message
> news:1117570747.924252.76840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Thanks for staying with me so far...
>>
>> I took a look at the web page and the wiring shown on that page in the
>> 2nd switch of the diagram labelled TWO- AND THREE-WAYSWITCHES, is very
>> similar to the way it was before I touched anything, except: -
>>
>> C  = L1 (BTW I just noticed the word COM near the L1 wiring point)
>> L1 = L3
>> L2 = L2
>>
>> So the wiring points are arranged as
>>
>>                 C              L1 (COM)
>>
>>               L1 L2           L3 L2
>>              diagram          mine
>>
>> The switch unit I am taking out is a Volex 1000 series 1 way switch.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting that the wiring was done brilliantly but I am
>> certain that there is one switch in the room controlling 2 lights and
>> it works.
>>
>> I had thought this would be a really simple query and I just wanted to
>> avoid trying all the permutations of 3 wires and 3 holes. However, now
>> I'm a bit confused!
>>
>> Is my setup really strange? Did the builders/electrician use switch in
>> an unusual way?
>>
>> Either way, is it any clearer how to make the dimmer work?
>>
>> Fred.
>>
> Getting a one way dimmer to work on a two switching scheme isn't any 
> clearer
> with the wiring plan you say you have at the switch.  How does this switch
> control the two lights?  Does it go up for one light and down for the 
> other?
> Or is it just on and off when the switch is moved?
>
> You have three wires where there should only be two, so this is why I 
> think
> the system is wired for two way switching configuration.  My next bit of
> advice is, start looking behind things, or in another room, for another
> switch somewhere that also controls these lights, because you've even got 
> me
> stumped the way it is now.
>
> Sorry mate, but need more info' on this.
>
>


Hi BW

Long time since I spoke to you.

Heres a theory for you. If the switch is a 2 way switch then no matter how 
incorrectly the switch is wired the MCB should not trip. All 3 wires are 
tagged as live on such a circuit and it would not be possible to create a 
live/neutral short.

Now.
On the old switch the blue was tagged with black which suggests neutral. If 
L1 is permanent live and L2 is neutral then the common terminal is switching 
between live and neutral but the two do not meet. The switch would work.
Look again at how the OP first wired up the dimmer and you will see that he 
has fried it.

Only a theory

Adam

"ARWadsworth"  wrote in message
news:W4joe.45213$G8.13640@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "BigWallop"  wrote in message
> news:qa7ne.43085$G8.3840@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >

<<<snipped>>>

>
> Hi BW
>
> Long time since I spoke to you.
>
> Heres a theory for you. If the switch is a 2 way switch then no matter how
> incorrectly the switch is wired the MCB should not trip. All 3 wires are
> tagged as live on such a circuit and it would not be possible to create a
> live/neutral short.
>
> Now.
> On the old switch the blue was tagged with black which suggests neutral.
If
> L1 is permanent live and L2 is neutral then the common terminal is
switching
> between live and neutral but the two do not meet. The switch would work.
> Look again at how the OP first wired up the dimmer and you will see that
he
> has fried it.
>
> Only a theory
>
> Adam
>

Hi Adam.  How's you?  Keeping busy I hope.

As for your theory on the wiring scheme.  I thought the dimmer switch might
have been fried from the start, but I didn't want to be the one to break the
bad news to him.  :-)

Ok, lets assume I fried it.

I have a brand new one, still boxed.... Now, other than leave it in the
box, can anyone suggest how I should proceed...

Thanks!
Fred

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message 
news:1118600219.827044.279900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Ok, lets assume I fried it.
>
> I have a brand new one, still boxed.... Now, other than leave it in the
> box, can anyone suggest how I should proceed...
>
> Thanks!
> Fred
>


Are you still sure there is only one switch in the room controlling both 
lights? I have no reason to doubt you.

Adam

PS Have you got a multimeter that can read over 240 volts ac?

Adam

Yes, Im still sure. One switch controlling 2 lights which go on and off
at the same time.

To recap, the wiring on the original switch is:-

               L1 (COM)   <------- Yellow cable with Red tag
               O

         L3 O     O L2  <------- Red Cable
          ^
           \---------  Blue with Black tag


Presumably my second attempt is the most likely solution (only the
first attempt fried things so it wasn't proven)?

Second attempt was ...:-
 SA: Yellow with red tag
 L1: Blue with black tag
 L2: Red

Unfortunately I dont have a multimeter but as a separate thread I would
appreciate a recommendation, together with a pointer to a tutorial on
how to use it in this sort of situation.

Fred

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message 
news:1118606170.795952.255340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Yes, Im still sure. One switch controlling 2 lights which go on and off
> at the same time.


> Unfortunately I dont have a multimeter but as a separate thread I would
> appreciate a recommendation, together with a pointer to a tutorial on
> how to use it in this sort of situation.
>
> Fred


Try using the original lightswitch with the blue wire terminated into a 
piece of strip connector instead of the switch and see if the light still 
works.

Adam

"ARWadsworth"  wrote in message 
news:jH0re.49468$G8.35344@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Fred Nose"  wrote in message 
> news:1118606170.795952.255340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Yes, Im still sure. One switch controlling 2 lights which go on and off
>> at the same time.
>
>
>> Unfortunately I dont have a multimeter but as a separate thread I would
>> appreciate a recommendation, together with a pointer to a tutorial on
>> how to use it in this sort of situation.
>>
>> Fred
>
> Try using the original lightswitch with the blue wire terminated into a 
> piece of strip connector instead of the switch and see if the light still 
> works.
>
> Adam


And the rest of the message should have read.

If the light works when you have done this then use the yellow wire to SA 
and the red wire to L1 on the dimmer switch leaving the blue wire in the 
strip connector.

Adam

It worked!!!!

Leaving the blue wire out of the original switch allowed that switch to
work as before.
Then wiring the dimmer as you suggested also worked.

Thank you!

Can you please explain why it worked and why the blue wire was wired as
it was originally.
Fred

"Fred Nose"  wrote in message 
news:1118609201.700387.230500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> It worked!!!!
>
> Leaving the blue wire out of the original switch allowed that switch to
> work as before.
> Then wiring the dimmer as you suggested also worked.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Can you please explain why it worked and why the blue wire was wired as
> it was originally.
> Fred
>


I assumed that the blue wire was connected to neutral as it was tagged with 
a black ring. The original set up only worked because the permanant live 
(your red cable) never came into contact with the blue cable. The switch was 
either connecting L1 to L2 or L1 toL3 but L2 and L3 never make contact. Your 
first attempt with the dimmer connected the live to the neutral and 
destroyed the dimmer.
Your second attempt with the dimmer may still have failed even though it 
followed the original wiring diagram. As some lightswitchesdo not always 
make a clean break between the contacts as they are switched and you may 
momentarily get all 3 terminals touching each other inside the switch. The 
result would have been the same (ie destroyed dimmer)


The wiring as it was originally done was incorrect, so have a look around 
your house at the other one way switches and see if any others are wired up 
in the same way. If so then terminate any blue wires with a black tag with 
some strip connector. The main fail point would be that the yellow wire is 
marked as live using a red tag but it is obviously neutral when the light is 
switched off

Adam