Had to go into town today for an appointment so decided to park on Queen St 
or George Street as usual.  I knew about Princes St being closed Westbound 
(despite not reading the Evning News which seems to be the preferred method 
of communication, rather than leaflets or signs on approach).

Anyway, what are the council doing?  If they're going to ban cars totally, I 
wish they'd just do it instead of closing off streets, removing filter 
lights from junctions and generally making it impossible to get anywhere in 
the centre without precision planning.

- You can't go onto St Andrews Square or Charlotte Square from George 
Street.  Thanks for the warning...

- No worries, I'll just pop down Hanover or Frederick and then along Queen 
Street.  Which took ages as there's no filter arrows anymore.

- Filter has gone from Queen St onto Frederick St.  Now you're lucky if you 
can get two cars through on a change.

- Aaargh, you can't even turn up towards SAS from Queen Street any more if 
you're going eastbound.

What are they trying to do???  I jsut don't understand it.  The "congestion" 
in Edinburgh has never been that bad IMO, especially compared to other, 
comparably sized cities, but every time I go into town now the council have 
done something else that makes no sense at all.

Its like the no left turn at Haymarket if you're coming from Dalry, it ends 
up pushing cars down back streets or attempting silly U turns.  I really 
wish the council would let us in on their grand plan they have, because so 
far they just seem to be making things up as they go.


M.

"M"  wrote in message 
news:429b5171$0$375$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...

> Had to go into town today for an appointment so decided to park on Queen 
> St or George Street as usual.  I knew about Princes St being closed 
> Westbound (despite not reading the Evning News which seems to be the 
> preferred method of communication,



True, they just sneaked the changes in.

The Traffic Regulation Order in 2001 and 2002, the public hearings in 2003 
that lasted over 20 days were all just a figment of our imaginations.

The big yellow signs on all the city bound arterial routes are invisible.

Of course the website that gives all the changes in minute detail including 
when each part of the scheme will be implemented does not exist.

The notices of the changes on local lamp posts all just blew away.

My local councillor asking residents for their opinions of the changes was 
just fantasy.



So I expect you are correct, the council never informed anyone of the 
changes.





Alan Brown

> Alan Brown



What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the 
council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.

G.

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message
news:429b6509$0$2362$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

>
> "M"  wrote in message
> news:429b5171$0$375$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > Had to go into town today for an appointment so decided to park on Queen
> > St or George Street as usual.  I knew about Princes St being closed
> > Westbound (despite not reading the Evning News which seems to be the
> > preferred method of communication,
>
>
> True, they just sneaked the changes in.
>
> The Traffic Regulation Order in 2001 and 2002, the public hearings in 2003
> that lasted over 20 days were all just a figment of our imaginations.
>
> The big yellow signs on all the city bound arterial routes are invisible.
>
> Of course the website that gives all the changes in minute detail
including
> when each part of the scheme will be implemented does not exist.


www.inspiringcapital.com

"G"  wrote in message 
news:XJKme.42418$G8.22577@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>> Alan Brown
>
>
> What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the 
> council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.
>
> G.
>


It's no wonder business is suffering around the centre, whilst out-of-town 
retail parks are on-the-up.
So you know what to do come the local council elections.

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message 
news:429b6509$0$2362$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

>
>
> True, they just sneaked the changes in.
>
> The Traffic Regulation Order in 2001 and 2002, the public hearings in 2003 
> that lasted over 20 days were all just a figment of our imaginations.
>
> The big yellow signs on all the city bound arterial routes are invisible.
>
> Of course the website that gives all the changes in minute detail 
> including when each part of the scheme will be implemented does not exist.
>
> The notices of the changes on local lamp posts all just blew away.
>
> My local councillor asking residents for their opinions of the changes was 
> just fantasy.
>
>
>
> So I expect you are correct, the council never informed anyone of the 
> changes.
>
> Alan Brown



lol, this is hilarious.  Whilst you clearly have enough time on your hands 
to read lamp posts and the like, the main point I was making was that the 
changes have not been thought out from a traffic flow point of view and:

- I saw NO signs until I got within 20-30 yards of the affected junctions

- Great if there's a website, why not publicise it a bit to give us all a 
fighting chance

- You have a good councillor.  Well done, I'm pleased for you.


M.

>
>
> What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the 
> council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.
>
> G.


Thank you.

I think the council knows exactly how it wants to mange traffic. The big 
problem is that the ideas that the council have as to traffic management and 
that you have are widely different.

So, if you are saying that bringing your car into the city centre and 
parking it is very time consuming, difficult and expensive, then the council 
will say that they have succeeded in their traffic mangement scheme.


Alan Brown


> 

>
> lol, this is hilarious.  Whilst you clearly have enough time on your hands
> to read lamp posts and the like, the main point I was making was that the
> changes have not been thought out from a traffic flow point of view and:
>


Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out from a
traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole idea
is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.


Alan Brown

In article <429b6509$0$2362$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> me@me.com wrote...


> My local councillor asking residents for their opinions of the changes
> was just fantasy.


Must be. No one asked me anything about this. All I remember is a
resounding NO vote in the last referendum on congestion charging and
then all this happened.

marc

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message 
news:429ba557$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

>
>
>>
>> lol, this is hilarious.  Whilst you clearly have enough time on your 
>> hands
>> to read lamp posts and the like, the main point I was making was that the
>> changes have not been thought out from a traffic flow point of view and:
>>
>
> Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out from 
> a
> traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole 
> idea
> is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.
>
>
> Alan Brown
>


Fair enough.  So give me an alternative to the crappy bus service we have at 
the moment?  How about a proper, publicly funded mass transit system 
covering the city and outlying towns & villages instead of concentrating on 
solving a problem in the city that doesn't really exist.


M.

"M"  wrote in message 
news:429b5171$0$375$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
<much snippage>

I came back from hols last week and was a little bemused with all the 
changes around Princes St/George St/Queen St. I work in Waverley although 
I'm based at Haymarket and thought it was going to be a nightmare to get to 
and from the station. Alas no! I don't know how or why but journey time is 
shorter. Traffic 'seems' to move quicker along Queen St now and it appears 
to be less congested at the West End where Princes St meets South Charlotte 
St.
Perhaps it is just me, or the route I take, but all these little detours the 
council has implemented has made my life that wee bit easier ;-)

-- 

!Speedy Gonzales!

to reply, remove the 'OBVIOUS'

In article <429ba557$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net> me@me.com wrote...


> The whole idea is to discourage you from bringing your car into the
> city centre.


So why don't they just landmine all the roads instead?

If you can tell me of a practical alternative then let's hear it.

marc

Alan Brown wrote:

> Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out from a
> traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole idea
> is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.
> 
> 
> Alan Brown

And, by discouraging me from doing this, has discouraged me from 
spending my money in the city and bringing my overseas visitors to see 
tourist attractions and buy things. Great plan. Enjoy the wide open 
spaces tradesmen of Edinburgh.

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message 
news:429ba4d9$1$40204$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

>
>
>>
>>
>> What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the 
>> council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.
>>
>> G.
>
> Thank you.
>
> I think the council knows exactly how it wants to mange traffic. The big 
> problem is that the ideas that the council have as to traffic management 
> and that you have are widely different.
>
> So, if you are saying that bringing your car into the city centre and 
> parking it is very time consuming, difficult and expensive, then the 
> council will say that they have succeeded in their traffic mangement 
> scheme.
>
>
> Alan Brown
>
>>
>
>


I think it's been proved numerous times that Edinburgh council hasn't the 
slightest clue how to manage traffic. The city centre is a complete and 
utter mess.

"M"  wrote in message 
news:429c56ac$0$316$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...

> Fair enough.  So give me an alternative to the crappy bus service we have 
> at the moment?  How about a proper, publicly funded mass transit system 
> covering the city and outlying towns & villages instead of concentrating 
> on solving a problem in the city that doesn't really exist.
>
>
> M.
>


There is no real problem with the bus service in this city as far as I am 
concerned. The only problem with public transport in Edinburgh is that most 
people are just too lazy to use what is already in place and take the easy 
option of driving everywhere even if the place they want to go to is only a 
hundred yards down the road.

>
> There is no real problem with the bus service in this city as far as I am 
> concerned. The only problem with public transport in Edinburgh is that 
> most people are just too lazy to use what is already in place and take the 
> easy option of driving everywhere even if the place they want to go to is 
> only a hundred yards down the road.


Sorry, should have been more accurate.  The bus service in the city might be 
good, but the service allowing people to come in and out of the city is 
incredibly lacking.  Most of the congestion seems to be on major roads in 
and out of the town, also the bypass.  When you actually get into the city 
the traffic doesn't seem too bad.

There will always be some people who will never take public transport no 
matter what you do.

At the end of the day, who cares what I think and the fact I don't spend my 
money in the town centre any more won't make a blind bit of difference.  I'm 
just really surprised and disappointed with the way things are going.

Just nothing beats a good moan to make you feel even with the world   :-)


M.

"Norma"  wrote in message 
news:d7jpv4$2nd$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> Alan Brown wrote:
>> Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out 
>> from a
>> traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole 
>> idea
>> is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.
>>
>>
>> Alan Brown
> And, by discouraging me from doing this, has discouraged me from spending 
> my money in the city and bringing my overseas visitors to see tourist 
> attractions and buy things. Great plan. Enjoy the wide open spaces 
> tradesmen of Edinburgh.
>
>


I agree with Norma. Pity the downturn in business is not happening as quick 
as we would like. When enough retail outlets are faced with shutting up shop 
due to lack of business as a result of customer loss/not enough money being 
spent. Maybe then the council will take notice and see what a blundering 
mess they have made of things.
Perhaps they should do a survey and asked retailers have customer numbers 
increased/decreased over the last year. Also ask customers what deters them 
from taking their custom into the city centre.
Can anyone see any benefit in the traffic flow control measures being taken? 
If the measures are to 'discourage' people taking cars into the centre, then 
why not just increase the parking charges, in line with London. It cost me 
22 to park for 1 hr 40 mins in a cark park.

Norma wrote:

> Alan Brown wrote:
> 
>> Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out 
>> from a
>> traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole 
>> idea
>> is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.
>>
>>
>> Alan Brown
> 
> And, by discouraging me from doing this, has discouraged me from 
> spending my money in the city and bringing my overseas visitors to see 
> tourist attractions and buy things. Great plan. Enjoy the wide open 
> spaces tradesmen of Edinburgh.
> 
> 


perhaps you should take a lead from Edinburgh's Lord Provost, Lesley 
Hinds. As I sat outside Pizza Express in Holyrood earlier this evening, 
I noticed her (or rather our) Jag parked on double yellow lines outside 
the Tun. She came out, sat in the (chauffeur driven) car for about 20 
minutes, with the engine running, before heading back in for another wee 
while.

Message from the cooncil being; if yer wan of us go right ahead. Motto 
for the rest of us: stand in the local elections.

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message
news:429ba4d9$1$40204$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

>
>
> >
> >
> > What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the
> > council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.
> >
> > G.
>
> Thank you.
>
> I think the council knows exactly how it wants to mange traffic. The big
> problem is that the ideas that the council have as to traffic management
and
> that you have are widely different.
>
> So, if you are saying that bringing your car into the city centre and
> parking it is very time consuming, difficult and expensive, then the
council
> will say that they have succeeded in their traffic mangement scheme.


All I can say is thank goodness for my private, secure parking space at
home - the street is often jam-packed outside my building and I'd be
constantly stressed about parking whenever I was out if tweren't for space.
I also have a staff permit that lets me park at the lower end of Drummond
Street (patrolled by Town & City parking so don't try it boys and girls!) so
if I need to take the car closer into town or the southside I can always
park there - it's busy during week but quiet at weekends.


Tamzin

"Alan Brown"  wrote in message
news:429ba557$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

>
>
> >
> > lol, this is hilarious.  Whilst you clearly have enough time on your
hands
> > to read lamp posts and the like, the main point I was making was that
the
> > changes have not been thought out from a traffic flow point of view and:
> >
>
> Ah, but there you are wrong. The system has been has been thought out from
a
> traffic flow point of view. It is just not the one you want. The whole
idea
> is to discourage you from bringing your car into the city centre.
>
>

Putting people off using a particular route is one thing and fair enough but
making it dangerously unclear to those who are unfamiliar with it is
another.  Once you've committed the cardinal sin of going that way you can't
get out of it easily and it is very hard to tell where you are supposed to
go just to escape from it in something approximating the correct direction.
Lanes are not clearly signposted and they seem to widen into two or more and
then narrow back to one without warning.  In addition streams of traffic
from other streets suddenly begin pouring towards you just when you think
you've got to a safe place.  The worst bit is the one-way section that goes
round Torphichen Place(?) where I always seem to position myself wrongly and
find myself sandwiched in between converging lines of traffic.  This
terrifies me and makes me start driving defensively (read badly) because I
dislike not knowing where I'm going when driving under any circumstances.
However, as I don't normally have difficulty working out  appropriate lanes
and avoiding collisions in most complaecx road systems I must assume that
the signposting round Haymarket and the West End is counter-intuitive and
just a tad deficient. It would surely make  for a more efficient system with
faster "throughput" of the unwanted traffic if so many drivers were not
faffing about trying to escape from the wrong lane they were pushed into by
default.

Anyway it's been my impression (on the two occasions I've actually been
driving there <g>) that most vehicles are crossing from one part of
Edinburgh to another rather than trying to park their car in the area.  For
instance I had to plunge through once because I was going from my home near
Meadowbank to visit my Dad at Murrayfield hospital.  I also occasionally
have to skirt round the edges of the area to get to Fife if I'm going
straight from the yard or from work - I go away round the north of Edinburgh
if I'm setting out from home precisely to avoid the city centre!  I would
never dream ( now or in the past) of trying to take my car along to
Haymarket if I wanted to go shopping at the West End because I always just
assume that I wouldn't get parked.  I presume that there are car parks there
but I guess they must be quite expensive?

Anyway I understand that the council want to discourage people taking cars
in to that part of town but I don't think making it terrifying and dangerous
is quite the right method for achieving this.

Tamzin

"RossM"  wrote in message
news:429d8cce$0$3847$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

>
> "M"  wrote in message
> news:429c56ac$0$316$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > Fair enough.  So give me an alternative to the crappy bus service we
have
> > at the moment?  How about a proper, publicly funded mass transit system
> > covering the city and outlying towns & villages instead of concentrating
> > on solving a problem in the city that doesn't really exist.
> >
> >
> > M.
> >
>
> There is no real problem with the bus service in this city as far as I am
> concerned. The only problem with public transport in Edinburgh is that
most
> people are just too lazy to use what is already in place and take the easy
> option of driving everywhere even if the place they want to go to is only
a
> hundred yards down the road.
>


It's not just laziness you know.  Buses are fine if you are just hopping on
and off in and around the centre because there are lots of them around and
they are frequent.  Start to get more choosy - perhaps you need to travel to
and from your home on the outskirts on Edinburgh or you wish to travel after
7pm or on a Sunday and your options are far more limited.  You will have to
wait half an hour or more before a bus trundles along and it may well turn
out to be a part route only.  Moreover the bus is unlikely to drop you too
close to your destination.  You'll probably have to walk for 10 to 15
minutes after you get off the bus.

Buses are hopeless when you have large bulky items to carry about and the
special space at the front only really caters to one person with such stuff.
If you get on after them you're stuffed.  Buses are full of other people and
on the worst routes and times you won't get a seat and will probably end up
pressed far too close to some repellent specimen of humanity.  You do not
have the luxury of personal space on a bus.  I've had a car for over a year
now but 2 minutes in an overcrowded bus turns me back into the raving
misanthrope I used to be when I was forced to use only public transport.

They also become less and less frequent the further out from the city centre
you live and the service is virtually non-existent on Sundays and public
holidays.  Just consider New Years Day when we have all these visitors in
the city who want to explore a bit after their Hogmanay celebrations plus a
few others who undoubtedly find themselves far from where they want to be in
the cold light of morning!  This year I saw crowds of waiting at bus stops
and yet the services were seriously depleted - even if they had managed to
catch a bus to wherever they wanted to go they would have had to wait hours
to get back again afterwards.

Anyway I could moan about buses forever but I'll spare you all that!

Tamzin

Tamzin wrote:

> Anyway I could moan about buses forever but I'll spare you all that!
> 
> Tamzin
> 

Spare 'em nothing. Lay on - you are talking a lot of sense

"Tamzin"  wrote in message 
news:d7qgi0$m5j$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...

> It's not just laziness you know.


Of course it is.


> Buses are fine if you are just hopping on
> and off in and around the centre because there are lots of them around and
> they are frequent.  Start to get more choosy - perhaps you need to travel 
> to
> and from your home on the outskirts on Edinburgh or you wish to travel 
> after
> 7pm or on a Sunday and your options are far more limited.  You will have 
> to
> wait half an hour or more before a bus trundles along and it may well turn
> out to be a part route only.


Ever heard of timetables? They have lots of them in the Lothian buses shop 
in Hanover street.



>  Moreover the bus is unlikely to drop you too
> close to your destination.  You'll probably have to walk for 10 to 15
> minutes after you get off the bus.


There's not many places in Edinburgh where you would have to walk for 15m 
after getting off a Bus unless you live in the back of beyond in which case 
it's your own fault for not buying a house nearer to a bus route in the 
first place.


> Buses are hopeless when you have large bulky items to carry about and the
> special space at the front only really caters to one person with such 
> stuff.
> If you get on after them you're stuffed.


Well that's one of the times when you use the car. The point is that you 
don't use the car everytime you step out of the door to go somewhere. If 
public transport is easily available then you use it but if it's not readily 
available like at night or on Sundays you use the car . Most people in 
favour of public transport don't want car owners to stop using their cars 
completely just to stop the unnecessary journeys when there is alternative 
transport available.


> Buses are full of other people and
> on the worst routes and times you won't get a seat and will probably end 
> up
> pressed far too close to some repellent specimen of humanity.


 That's whole point of the exercise i think to convey 100 passengers on the 
same space on the road that two cars carrying a maximum of ten people would 
take up. You have to have some tolerance with this as with most things in 
life but unfortunately a growing number of people using buses these days 
lack a good standard of personal hygeine.


>  You do not
> have the luxury of personal space on a bus.  I've had a car for over a 
> year
> now but 2 minutes in an overcrowded bus turns me back into the raving
> misanthrope I used to be when I was forced to use only public transport.


Most people are on a bus for maximum of 45m or if like you worked out at 
South Gyle before that bus bypass was built you spent an hour and 15m trying 
to get home. Things are lot worse elsewhere. You could live in London for 
instance and have a two train journey each way to get to owrk and back.


> They also become less and less frequent the further out from the city 
> centre
> you live and the service is virtually non-existent on Sundays and public
> holidays.  Just consider New Years Day when we have all these visitors in
> the city who want to explore a bit after their Hogmanay celebrations plus 
> a
> few others who undoubtedly find themselves far from where they want to be 
> in
> the cold light of morning!  This year I saw crowds of waiting at bus stops
> and yet the services were seriously depleted - even if they had managed to
> catch a bus to wherever they wanted to go they would have had to wait 
> hours
> to get back again afterwards.


Bus services are not perfect by any means and Lothian Buses in particular is 
stuck in the dark ages as they run a reduced service on all these silly 
Edinburgh holidays we have when people are not off and are actually working 
but again it's a case of knowing when the buses were coming and going. We 
had no problem at Christmas and New year with the buses but then again i 
live 2 minutes walk from a major bus route.


> Anyway I could moan about buses forever but I'll spare you all that!
>
> Tamzin
>

"Norma"  wrote in message 
news:d7qu67$ipq$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> Spare 'em nothing. Lay on - you are talking a lot of sense
>


Ah the words of a true car nazi. :-)

RossM wrote:

> "Norma"  wrote in message 
> news:d7qu67$ipq$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> 
>>Spare 'em nothing. Lay on - you are talking a lot of sense
>>
> 
> 
> Ah the words of a true car nazi. :-) 

No - just enough disabled to need the extra benefit of my own motorised 
transport to be able to get out and about.
Any more ignorant, smart-assed, comments?

> 
> 
> 

In article <42a25401$0$1695$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net> skippy@roadkill.com wrote...


> > Spare 'em nothing. Lay on - you are talking a lot of sense
>
> Ah the words of a true car nazi. :-)


Ah, the words of a true fucking idiot who is jealous of everyone that
can afford a car.

marc

it's busy during week but quiet at weekends.



Not any more ;)

Gary.

"G"  wrote in message
news:d847f4$7ut$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

> it's busy during week but quiet at weekends.
>
>
>
> Not any more ;)
>


How come?-  it looked quiet when I went past on Sunday.  You can't park
there unless you have a permit issued by my employer  If you don't have one
then Town & City parking will issue your illegally parked car with a 30.00
parking ticket to start off with.  I believe there's an escalation after
that?

Tamzin

> How come?-  it looked quiet when I went past on Sunday.  You can't park
> there unless you have a permit issued by my employer  If you don't have 
> one
> then Town & City parking will issue your illegally parked car with a 
> 30.00
> parking ticket to start off with.  I believe there's an escalation after
> that?
>
> Tamzin



I am not saying how, but there is a VERY VERY easy way to negate every 
single fine "Town and City" give you.  I have succsessfully avoided three 
'legitimate fines' now, with absolutely no problems at all.  I put it down 
to laziness and lack of job motivation on the part of the chap who 
ultimately decides whether or not a fine should stick.

Also I believe, that the Town and City fines have no legal status, and 
therefore cannot be considered as real debt - it is my understanding that if 
one chose to ignore the fine, nothing would ever come of it and it could not 
be marked on your credit record.  In other words, Town and City hope that 
most people wont know this, and will be "worried enough" just to pay.  Not 
me :)

I will try and dig up some resources to help any of these points.

G.

"G"  wrote in message 
news:d86d0m$3nb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

> Also I believe, that the Town and City fines have no legal status, and 
> therefore cannot be considered as real debt


You could be right there, AFAIK private clampers are not allowed in Scotland 
so I s'pose the same could be said about those private companies who issue 
tickets?!?

-- 

!Speedy Gonzales!

to reply, remove the 'OBVIOUS'

"!Speedy Gonzales!"  wrote in 
message news:PMFpe.47363$G8.18571@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> "G"  wrote in message 
> news:d86d0m$3nb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
>> Also I believe, that the Town and City fines have no legal status, and 
>> therefore cannot be considered as real debt
>
> You could be right there, AFAIK private clampers are not allowed in 
> Scotland so I s'pose the same could be said about those private companies 
> who issue tickets?!?
>
> -- 
>
> !Speedy Gonzales!
>
> to reply, remove the 'OBVIOUS'
>


And what happens when your car is uplifted?

"BIGEYE" <address@is[invalid].ok> wrote in message 
news:42a76f1c$0$24496$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...

>
> And what happens when your car is uplifted?

 AFAIK, private companies cannot lift your car without authorisation from 
the police or local council. Something to do with the way property or 
ownership is viewed through Scottish Law. Off course down south nearly 
anyone can impound your car if they have the correct paper work!

-- 

!Speedy Gonzales!

to reply, remove the 'OBVIOUS'

> What a cocky sarcastic wanker you are.  The guy has a fecking point, the 
> council hasn't a clue how to manage traffic.


My wife works with someone whose brother works in some kind of city and 
traffic planning in Ireland.  Seemingly he was invited to get involved in 
the Edinburgh scheme.  He took a look at it and turned it down blank saying 
that it just wouldn't work.  I'm not surprised, to be honest.

Gareth

"G"  wrote in message
news:d86d0m$3nb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

> I am not saying how, but there is a VERY VERY easy way to negate every
> single fine "Town and City" give you.  I have succsessfully avoided three
> 'legitimate fines' now, with absolutely no problems at all.  I put it down
> to laziness and lack of job motivation on the part of the chap who
> ultimately decides whether or not a fine should stick.


Don't tell me anything that might be construed as lawbreaking please.  On
the otherhand......it doesn't involve improper sexual favours does it? ;op


> Also I believe, that the Town and City fines have no legal status, and
> therefore cannot be considered as real debt - it is my understanding that
if
> one chose to ignore the fine, nothing would ever come of it and it could
not
> be marked on your credit record.  In other words, Town and City hope that
> most people wont know this, and will be "worried enough" just to pay.  Not
> me :)


Fraid I've no idea exactly how they work it myself or the legal basis or
lack thereof!  But the street is still quiet so most people must be fooled
if what you say is true :o)  I guess if enough people ignored the Town &
City threat my employers would resort to a system with locks and keys
anyway - not so easy for "illegals" to get round that.  Anyway we're moving
to a brand spanking new office with a massive secure car park soon so I'll
soon be able to forget the horror of trying to fit my car into a space on
that narrow street.  It's so bad that I have to make sure I get there v
early in the morning to avoid any major negotiating of car into space :o)


> I will try and dig up some resources to help any of these points.


I'm sure we could argue that an illegally parked car was causing an
obstruction in such a narrow street and get someone to tow it away.  If the
fines are not legally valid then we don't need to worry if other action
taken isn't valid either right? :o)

Tamzin

"Gareth J M Saunders"  wrote in message 
news:GU4qe.48114$G8.30338@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...


> My wife works with someone whose brother works in some kind of city and 
> traffic planning in Ireland.  Seemingly he was invited to get involved in 
> the Edinburgh scheme.  He took a look at it and turned it down blank 
> saying that it just wouldn't work.  I'm not surprised, to be honest.
>
> Gareth
>


It doesn't not only work for cars, Princes street is probably now twice as 
dangerous for pedestrians. Personally I would like to throttle whatever 
idiot's idea it was to re-open the junction between Queensferry street and 
Princes street at the west end.