According to BeerAdvocate.com Fullers is supporting the sale of
depressurised keg beer through handpump beer engine systems here in the
US.  Check out the following link:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/forum/read.php?thread=463183

Bruce
CAMRA member from New Jersey

P.S.  
I witnessed this first hand in an Irish pub in Key West, Florida last
year.

Hi all,
I couldn't believe what I was reading this indeed appalling behaviour on 
behalf of Fullers.
My wife & I run a successful Freehouse (GBG registered) here in Norfolk and 
do sometimes include Fullers beers in our guest list, but this may change.
I have to-day emailed Fullers UK demanding a response, as was pointed out in 
the beeradvocate threads this practice would be illegal in the UK.
I must admit so pissed am I that if I don't get a proper explanation from 
Fullers I doubt I'd have their beers back again.
Just my two pence worth.


-- 
The Chequers Inn
Front Street
Binham
Norfolk
NR21 0AL
Website  -   www.binhamchequers.co.uk
"Bruce"  wrote in message 
news:425D125C.592CDEF9@worldnet.att.net...

> According to BeerAdvocate.com Fullers is supporting the sale of
> depressurised keg beer through handpump beer engine systems here in the
> US.  Check out the following link:
>
> http://www.beeradvocate.com/forum/read.php?thread=463183
>
> Bruce
> CAMRA member from New Jersey
>
> P.S.
> I witnessed this first hand in an Irish pub in Key West, Florida last
> year. 

While I agree that it's really disingenuous to serve keg beer thru a
handpump, I didn't know it was illegal in UK, anyone know what law that
is?

I just assumed seeing as we have many dispense forms in UK, that any of
the common ones were legal, (and that there was no compulsion to serve
only cask beer thru a handpump) as long as you served about 90% of a
pint in the glass.

I know I have been served cellar-tank beer thru a handpump in a brewpub
in the past, but as it tasted lovely, and was unfiltered &
unpasteurised (under blanket c02 tho) I didn't mind at all.
Cheers,
MikeMcG.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:12:31 +0100, Steve C wrote
(in message <d3o42f$nht$1@sparta.btinternet.com>):


>  Hi all,
> I couldn't believe what I was reading this indeed appalling behaviour on 
> behalf of Fullers.
> My wife & I run a successful Freehouse (GBG registered) here in Norfolk and 
> do sometimes include Fullers beers in our guest list, but this may change.
> I have to-day emailed Fullers UK demanding a response, as was pointed out in 
> the beeradvocate threads this practice would be illegal in the UK.
> I must admit so pissed am I that if I don't get a proper explanation from 
> Fullers I doubt I'd have their beers back again.
> Just my two pence worth.


I can't understand why so many in the real ale community are so enamoured by 
regional brewers the likes of Fullers, Youngs, Green King, Shepherd Neame, 
Adnams, Jennings, Robinsons...

They make out they're committed to real ale when it suits them - i.e in the 
early days of CAMRA when committing to real ale enabled them to use the moral 
high ground/persecuted minority argument as a convenient marketing strategy.

They would drop real ale like a snowball full of dog shite if the moral high 
ground/persecuted minority argument no longer existed.

Not only do these breweries rarely ever brew anything interesting but they 
behave like a pack of twats too!

Yes, let's give Fullers (and the others) beers a miss and concentrate on 
stocking and drinking the many interesting beers from the small ambitious 
micros who are much more deserving of our support.

Rant over.

Only trouble is, like it or not they *have* stuck with brewing real
ale, often with more than a nod to quality & traditional ingredients,
oh and some of the beers are really very good!(*)

Not bouncing full of cascade hops, not super-strong, nor super-trendy,
etc, but largely pretty well made & more consistent than a whole heap
of micros.

(*) Some Fuller's (1845, ESB, Vintage), some Young's (cask
WinterWarmer, SLA, etc), recently enjoyed some cask Robinson's; Adnam's
(in the past - TallyHo, Fisherman's, even bottled Broadside is pretty
good IMO)

I know the tied house system isn't flawless (understatement?) but I
have a feeling the truly free market might make pubs more like
McDonald's & less like the average decent brewery local.

responding to rant over :~)
cheers
MikeMcG

Only trouble is, like it or not they *have* stuck with brewing real
ale, often with more than a nod to quality & traditional ingredients,
oh and some of the beers are really very good!(*)

Not bouncing full of cascade hops, not super-strong, nor super-trendy,
etc, but largely pretty well made & more consistent than a whole heap
of micros.

(*) Some Fuller's (1845, ESB, Vintage), some Young's (cask
WinterWarmer, SLA, etc), recently enjoyed some cask Robinson's; Adnam's
(in the past - TallyHo, Fisherman's, even bottled Broadside is pretty
good IMO)

I know the tied house system isn't flawless (understatement?) but I
have a feeling the truly free market might make pubs more like
McDonald's & less like the average decent brewery local.

responding to rant over :~)
cheers
MikeMcG

MikeMcG wrote:

> While I agree that it's really disingenuous to serve keg beer thru a
> handpump, I didn't know it was illegal in UK, anyone know what law
> that is?


No it's not illegal. We used to frequent the Jodrell Arms in Whaley Bridge 
(Derbyshire) when it was an excellent place run by Jackie Bond (ex 
Lancashire cricketer and umpire). When he was forced out due to exorbitent 
rent demands it was taken over by a cowboy who decided to serve keg Wilson's 
mild through a handpump. That was the last time we went there. Since then 
it's had many licensees, none of whom has managed to make a success of the 
place, despite attempts at a Thai restaurant, and attempting to appeal to 
underage drinkers. I don't know its current fate, although a quick Google 
suggests that it may be doing better at the moment.

Brian

"MikeMcG"  wrote in message
news:1113602608.522893.280080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Only trouble is, like it or not they *have* stuck with brewing real
> ale, often with more than a nod to quality & traditional ingredients,
> oh and some of the beers are really very good!(*)
> Not bouncing full of cascade hops, not super-strong, nor super-trendy,
> etc, but largely pretty well made & more consistent than a whole heap
> of micros.
> (*) Some Fuller's (1845, ESB, Vintage), some Young's (cask
> WinterWarmer, SLA, etc), recently enjoyed some cask Robinson's; Adnam's
> (in the past - TallyHo, Fisherman's, even bottled Broadside is pretty
> good IMO)
> I know the tied house system isn't flawless (understatement?) but I
> have a feeling the truly free market might make pubs more like
> McDonald's & less like the average decent brewery local.
> responding to rant over :~)
> cheers MikeMcG


Anyone that says Robinsons Old Tom is an indifferent beer needs to
seriously re-consider his opinions!

--
Dave Croft
Warrington

"Steve Pickthall"  wrote in 
message news:0001HW.BE85C1C8005C0B05F03055B0@news.x-privat.org...

>
> I can't understand why so many in the real ale community are so enamoured 
> by
> regional brewers the likes of Fullers, Youngs, Green King, Shepherd Neame,
> Adnams, Jennings, Robinsons...
>

>
> Not only do these breweries rarely ever brew anything interesting but they
> behave like a pack of twats too!
>


Some of the beers made by the above are magnificent. The problem for many of 
them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate and 
the glass.

Brett

In article <4260f30a$0$565$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>, 
blaniosh@saltwells.dudley.gov.uk says...

> 
> "Steve Pickthall"  wrote in 
> message news:0001HW.BE85C1C8005C0B05F03055B0@news.x-privat.org...
> >
> > I can't understand why so many in the real ale community are so enamoured 
> > by
> > regional brewers the likes of Fullers, Youngs, Green King, Shepherd Neame,
> > Adnams, Jennings, Robinsons...
> >
> 
> >
> > Not only do these breweries rarely ever brew anything interesting but they
> > behave like a pack of twats too!
> >
> 
> Some of the beers made by the above are magnificent. The problem for many of 
> them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate and 
> the glass.
> 

Absolutely. The "if it ain't micro, it's shit" attitude is ludicrous.

M

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:04:08 +0100, MikeMcG wrote
(in message ):


> Only trouble is, like it or not they *have* stuck with brewing real
> ale, often with more than a nod to quality & traditional ingredients,
> oh and some of the beers are really very good!(*)


Sorry it's a bit wordy:

My argument is that they've stuck with real ale brewing because the moral 
high ground/persecuted minority argument still exists and because they know 
what bad PR they'd get if they dropped it, add to that Fullers current foray 
into keg beer and some brewers readiness to produce 'cream' versions and it 
suggests to me that they don't have any great passion for flavour or quality 
or real ale.


> Not bouncing full of cascade hops, not super-strong, nor super-trendy,
> etc, but largely pretty well made & more consistent than a whole heap
> of micros.
> 
> (*) Some Fuller's (1845, ESB, Vintage), some Young's (cask
> WinterWarmer, SLA, etc), recently enjoyed some cask Robinson's; Adnam's
> (in the past - TallyHo, Fisherman's, even bottled Broadside is pretty
> good IMO)


I'm not accusing any of them of brewing 'bad beer' as such, I drink and 
(sometimes) enjoy a few of them myself as a last resort, but in my own 
personal top 10 none of them come close. Often I'll visit a pub that usually 
has some interesting beers on only to find that this week they only have 
London Pride and Adnams, my heart sinks to the pit of my stomach in 
disappointment. 

They've been ploughing the same furrow for years and as Jacko said "some of 
these breweries would rather go bust than brew a wheat beer."


> I know the tied house system isn't flawless (understatement?) but I
> have a feeling the truly free market might make pubs more like
> McDonald's & less like the average decent brewery local.


Trying not to turn this into a discussion of the tied system it is though one 
of the issues I have with the real ale fraternity's love of these breweries 
is that they act just like any other twatty pubco (justifiably despised on 
this newsgroup) but get away with it because they have a real ale brewery 
attached.

As for a truly free market making pubs more like McDonald's, well we don't 
know how it would work out but the US beer market is immeasurably improved by 
not having a tied system and on the whole in this country I have found 
free-houses generally more interesting as a beer drinker (though 
unfortunately not always).

My point is not that they brew crap and smaller breweries always brew 
wonders, it is that they don't deserve the plaudits they get and that we 
shouldn't be surprised when they behave like twats as Fullers have.

Martin wrote:

> 
> In article <4260f30a$0$565$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
> blaniosh@saltwells.dudley.gov.uk says...
> >
> > "Steve Pickthall"  wrote in
> > message news:0001HW.BE85C1C8005C0B05F03055B0@news.x-privat.org...
> > >
> > > I can't understand why so many in the real ale community are so enamoured
> > > by
> > > regional brewers the likes of Fullers, Youngs, Green King, Shepherd Neame,
> > > Adnams, Jennings, Robinsons...
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Not only do these breweries rarely ever brew anything interesting but they
> > > behave like a pack of twats too!
> > >
> >
> > Some of the beers made by the above are magnificent. The problem for many of
> > them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate and
> > the glass.
> >
> Absolutely. The "if it ain't micro, it's shit" attitude is ludicrous.
> 
> M


Absolutley - let's mot forget that like them or not, the regional and
family brewers are the real ale backbone - if none of them brewed cask
beer just how widely available do you think it would be? In Greater
Manchester we have Hydes, Holtsm Lees and Robinsons - if none of them
brewed cask beer then it would be very thin on the ground locally.

John C

The problem for many of 

> them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate and 
> the glass.
> 
> Brett


The way I look at it is - if the pub is actually owned by the regional
and so emblazoned with that company's insignia then it has no excuse
(Youngs, are you listening?). The bricks and mortar of the pub are
owned by 'em, the beer's brewed by'em. NO EXCUSE. The feeble defences
like "it's due to bad managers" or whatever is buck-passing and is
dishonest.

JP

"Jeff P"  wrote in message 
news:23672ddf.0504161327.61146907@posting.google.com...

> The problem for many of
>> them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate and
>> the glass.
>>
>> Brett
>
> The way I look at it is - if the pub is actually owned by the regional
> and so emblazoned with that company's insignia then it has no excuse
> (Youngs, are you listening?). The bricks and mortar of the pub are
> owned by 'em, the beer's brewed by'em. NO EXCUSE. The feeble defences
> like "it's due to bad managers" or whatever is buck-passing and is
> dishonest.
>


Yes the brewery has a responsibility in how and where the beer ends up. So I 
am with you on that score.
However that doesn't change the fact that these beers can be magnificient.

Your statement, "Not only do these breweries* rarely ever brew anything 
interesting" clearly shows you believe there is a problem at source.
I think you are wrong on that score.

*Fullers, Youngs, Green King, Shepherd Neame, Adnams, Jennings, Robinsons...

In article , Jeff P
 wrote:

> The problem for many of 
> > them is not the beer itself but what happens between the brewery gate
> > and the glass.
> > 
> > Brett

> The way I look at it is - if the pub is actually owned by the regional
> and so emblazoned with that company's insignia then it has no excuse
> (Youngs, are you listening?). The bricks and mortar of the pub are owned
> by 'em, the beer's brewed by'em. NO EXCUSE. The feeble defences like
> "it's due to bad managers" or whatever is buck-passing and is dishonest.


Actually the main comment (and I'm one of the regular ones making it) is
that the beer has nothing intrinsically wrong before the cellarman gets
hold of it.

I haven't been up Hampstead hill for a while but the last tour there was
one of profound disappointment. Lack of cellar cooling in most
establishments meant that the usual offering was a luke warm beer soup.
The funny thing was that I'd been in the Brittania Tap (Warwick Road)
earlier in the day (and in the full heat of it) and the beer was pleasantly
cool and a pleasant drink.[1]

I presume your argument is that the brewery should be shelling out for the
cellar cooling in which case I'd tend to agree

[1] Lets leave aside personal preferences in beers shall we? I've heard
people rave about Bullmastiff beers that I thought tasted of bubblegum. Oh,
and Boddingtons was always boring once you'd got past the hop blast - they
simply eliminated the hop blast and left the boring.

-- 
Steve Pampling

Dave Croft wrote:

> Anyone that says Robinsons Old Tom is an indifferent beer needs to
> seriously re-consider his opinions!


Likewise Adnams Fisherman.

d.

> Yes the brewery has a responsibility in how and where the beer ends up. So I 
> am with you on that score.
> However that doesn't change the fact that these beers can be magnificient.


Can be, but pick one of their pubs at random and you'll have a choice
of dull, boring or insipid - e.g. Youngs Ordinary, Green King IPA,
Wadworth 6x etc.. The good beers produced by the regionals are
increasingly only found only in bottles and the bottles not found in
the pubs.


> 
> Your statement, "Not only do these breweries* rarely ever brew anything 
> interesting" clearly shows you believe there is a problem at source.
> I think you are wrong on that score.


My brother said that, not me, but we do have similar views. 

I have the misfortune to live on Youngs home turf and I know too
bloody well how dull their pub beer generally is. I also know how
delightful SLA can be but how many of their pubs have it - bugger all.
I actually rather enjoy Youngs Pilsner which is very tasty in a fruity
way but usually over-carbonated (even more than mainstream lagers) and
sometimes oxidised.

In article , Jeff P
 wrote:

> > Yes the brewery has a responsibility in how and where the beer ends
> > up. So I am with you on that score. However that doesn't change the
> > fact that these beers can be magnificient.

> Can be, but pick one of their pubs at random and you'll have a choice of
> dull, boring or insipid - e.g. Youngs Ordinary, Green King IPA, Wadworth
> 6x etc.. The good beers produced by the regionals are increasingly only
> found only in bottles and the bottles not found in the pubs.


I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post regarding lack of
investment in proper cellar kit.

I tend to agree with the general statement. But I actually like "Ordinary"
(if the cellarman hasn't naffed it up)

-- 
Steve Pampling

In article ,
   MikeMcG  wrote:

> While I agree that it's really disingenuous to serve keg beer thru a
> handpump, I didn't know it was illegal in UK, anyone know what law that
> is?


ISTR a case where Trading Standards pursued this one through the courts and
got the judgment that seeing handpumps on a bar gives the customer the
impression that they are drinking real, i.e. cask-conditioned ale, and
therefore to put keg beer through a handpump is misleading, which does fall
under Trading Standards legislation. (I also STR the trading standards
officer in question was a leading West Midlands CAMRA member at the time!)



> Cheers,
> MikeMcG.


-- 
Christine Ramsbottom

Jeff P wrote:
only found only in bottles and the bottles not found in

> the pubs.
>
>>
>> Your statement, "Not only do these breweries* rarely ever brew
>> anything interesting" clearly shows you believe there is a problem
>> at source.
>> I think you are wrong on that score.
>
> My brother said that, not me,


My apologies for the misquote!
-- 

Brett