Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules re.siting
of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' by
the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The work
itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 'professional'?

SS wrote:

> Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules re.siting
> of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' by
> the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
> Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The work
> itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 'professional'?
> 
> 
> 

It is more to do with the Treasury wanting to stop the "cash-in-hand" 
part of the economy.. Otherwise the regs wouldn't have been drafted as 
they are -  to stop fully qualified engineers and technicians doing a 
bit of evening and weekend work as well as, supposedly, stopping the 
cowboys.

I don't know about the gas regulations. Get that wrong and you could 
lose the house, next door and everyone in them. If there was an 
explosion due to a faulty component, there might not be much evidence 
left to show that it wasn't your fault and had been installed correctly.

For wiring regulations, just do a search on "wiring regulations" on 
ebay. You will find all sorts from the full printed book of various 
editions to "CDROM"s.

Rules are there to be interpreted as well as followed. You pay for a 
professional because a professional has done all his/her screwups on 
other people's installations as an apprentice - and been suitably 
"corrected".  If you get it wrong, how would you know? Other than, of 
course, when the ambulance/police/fire engine arrives and shortly after 
when the insurance company declines to pay up..

Your house is worth, how much? You, your wife kids? Is it really worth 
hazarding that for a couple of hundred quidlets? Basically, if you need 
to ask how to do the job, you need to leave it to someone who doesn't.

-- 
Sue

You forgot to mention the prison sentence for dodgy gas work....


"Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:11m6vassespsi43@corp.supernews.com...

> SS wrote:
>> Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules 
>> re.siting
>> of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' 
>> by
>> the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
>> Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The 
>> work
>> itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 
>> 'professional'?
>>
>>
>>
> It is more to do with the Treasury wanting to stop the "cash-in-hand" part 
> of the economy.. Otherwise the regs wouldn't have been drafted as they 
> are -  to stop fully qualified engineers and technicians doing a bit of 
> evening and weekend work as well as, supposedly, stopping the cowboys.
>
> I don't know about the gas regulations. Get that wrong and you could lose 
> the house, next door and everyone in them. If there was an explosion due 
> to a faulty component, there might not be much evidence left to show that 
> it wasn't your fault and had been installed correctly.
>
> For wiring regulations, just do a search on "wiring regulations" on ebay. 
> You will find all sorts from the full printed book of various editions to 
> "CDROM"s.
>
> Rules are there to be interpreted as well as followed. You pay for a 
> professional because a professional has done all his/her screwups on other 
> people's installations as an apprentice - and been suitably "corrected". 
> If you get it wrong, how would you know? Other than, of course, when the 
> ambulance/police/fire engine arrives and shortly after when the insurance 
> company declines to pay up..
>
> Your house is worth, how much? You, your wife kids? Is it really worth 
> hazarding that for a couple of hundred quidlets? Basically, if you need to 
> ask how to do the job, you need to leave it to someone who doesn't.
>
> -- 
> Sue
>
>
>
> 

In article <EwK8f.19139$6i4.11510@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>,
	"SS"  writes:

> Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules re.siting
> of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' by
> the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.


Actually, incompetents aren't causing any significant harm to
themselves or others, so that's not the reason.


> Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The work
> itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 'professional'?


The Gas Safety Regs are available online. However, they aren't
the whole picture -- the relevant BS's aren't online, but then
most fitters don't have them either as they're not cheap.

-- 
Andrew Gabriel

Have a look at:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130478

Yes, it all falls under John Prescott himself. Who better to look after our 
safety!!
"SS"  wrote in message 
news:EwK8f.19139$6i4.11510@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

> Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules 
> re.siting
> of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' 
> by
> the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
> Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The 
> work
> itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 
> 'professional'?
>
>
> 

"Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:11m6vassespsi43@corp.supernews.com...

> SS wrote:
>> Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules 
>> re.siting
>> of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' 
>> by
>> the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
>> Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The 
>> work
>> itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 
>> 'professional'?

<snip>

> Basically, if you need to ask how to do the job, you need to leave it to 
> someone who doesn't.


You've started with a reasonable reply, then drifted off into nonsense (no 
offence, but I couldn't disagree more...)

The OP recognizes he needs to learn / understand something (wish there were 
more like that).  Knowing the regs doesn't mean you can do the job.  It may 
be as simple as knowing the date when new cable colours become mandatory. 
That doesn't mean using the old colours is unsafe.

If you reckon "needing to ask" is a problem, where do you suppose the next 
generation of "professionals" is going to come from?  Do you propose firing 
all today's apprentices and trainees because they weren't born with 
knowledge of 2005 regs?  Would you ban DIY books?  Ban newsgroups like this?

You've got the wrong end of the stick, and IMHO done an injustice to the OP. 
As Rumsfeld might say, the "known unknown" isn't a problem;  it's the 
"unknown unknown" you should worry about.

-- 
Martin

[Remove barrier to reply]

Martin wrote:

> "Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:11m6vassespsi43@corp.supernews.com...
> 
>>SS wrote:
>>
>>>Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules 
>>>re.siting
>>>of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked' 
>>>by
>>>the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
>>>Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The 
>>>work
>>>itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a 
>>>'professional'?
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>Basically, if you need to ask how to do the job, you need to leave it to 
>>someone who doesn't.
> 
> 
> You've started with a reasonable reply, then drifted off into nonsense (no 
> offence, but I couldn't disagree more...)
> 
> The OP recognizes he needs to learn / understand something (wish there were 
> more like that).  Knowing the regs doesn't mean you can do the job.  It may 
> be as simple as knowing the date when new cable colours become mandatory. 
> That doesn't mean using the old colours is unsafe.
> 
> If you reckon "needing to ask" is a problem, where do you suppose the next 
> generation of "professionals" is going to come from?  Do you propose firing 
> all today's apprentices and trainees because they weren't born with 
> knowledge of 2005 regs?  Would you ban DIY books?  Ban newsgroups like this?


You snipped the bit of my reply that talked about apprentices having 
their mistakes corrected. The problem with books is that they are open 
loop - if you have misunderstood, the mistake goes uncorrected. The 
"next generation" are going to come from apprentices and trainees who 
will still make mistkase - no matter how well they thought they 
understood the books.

Books and DIY books are fine where the consequences of mistakes are 
acceptable - I learnt cooking that way and my first rice pudding ended 
up as the garage door stop.


> 
> You've got the wrong end of the stick, and IMHO done an injustice to the OP. 
> As Rumsfeld might say, the "known unknown" isn't a problem;  it's the 
> "unknown unknown" you should worry about.


The "unknown unknown" is how the OP will interpret the book. Just as I 
think that you misunderstood my post.


I get your point and it is well made. However, I learnt far more useful 
stuff, during my apprenticeship, out of the classroom than I ever learnt 
in it.

Like I said, if it isn't safety critical, then by all means read the 
book and follow the instructions. It will probably work out fine. But if 
getting it wrong could kill or injure someone, then do it under 
supervision until you are sure you know what you are about.

There are plenty of books on driving cars - but I would hope that no one 
would think reading a book and getting a bit of advice on a newsgroup 
would be a reasonable replacement for supervised tuition..

-- 
Sue

"Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:11m7d7kk9c5f4b3@corp.supernews.com...

> Martin wrote:
>> "Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:11m6vassespsi43@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>SS wrote:
>>>
>>>>Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules
>>>>re.siting
>>>>of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being 'hijacked'
>>>>by
>>>>the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
>>>>Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The
>>>>work
>>>>itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a
>>>>'professional'?
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Basically, if you need to ask how to do the job, you need to leave it to
>>>someone who doesn't.
>>
>>
>> You've started with a reasonable reply, then drifted off into nonsense
>> (no offence, but I couldn't disagree more...)
>>
>> The OP recognizes he needs to learn / understand something (wish there
>> were more like that).  Knowing the regs doesn't mean you can do the job.
>> It may be as simple as knowing the date when new cable colours become
>> mandatory. That doesn't mean using the old colours is unsafe.
>>
>> If you reckon "needing to ask" is a problem, where do you suppose the
>> next generation of "professionals" is going to come from?  Do you propose
>> firing all today's apprentices and trainees because they weren't born
>> with knowledge of 2005 regs?  Would you ban DIY books?  Ban newsgroups
>> like this?
>
> You snipped the bit of my reply that talked about apprentices having their
> mistakes corrected.


Sorry about that.  I did read it, and up to that stage I wasn't particularly 
disagreeing with your sentiments.


> The problem with books is that they are open loop - if
> you have misunderstood, the mistake goes uncorrected. The "next
> generation" are going to come from apprentices and trainees who will still
> make mistkase - no matter how well they thought they understood the books.
>
> Books and DIY books are fine where the consequences of mistakes are
> acceptable - I learnt cooking that way and my first rice pudding ended up
> as the garage door stop.


Tee hee.  But you recognised it wasn't quite what you had expected ... and I 
bet you found out how to make an edible one without a personal supervisor / 
tutor.


>> You've got the wrong end of the stick, and IMHO done an injustice to the
>> OP. As Rumsfeld might say, the "known unknown" isn't a problem;  it's the
>> "unknown unknown" you should worry about.
>
> The "unknown unknown" is how the OP will interpret the book.


Actually, his / her question was simply "are the regs available on-line".  I 
don't know for certain, but I feel sure the OP can do the work - just wants 
to know what current (excuse pun) regs have to be followed.


> Just as I
> think that you misunderstood my post.

> I get your point and it is well made. However, I learnt far more useful
> stuff, during my apprenticeship, out of the classroom than I ever learnt
> in it.


Er - I hope I'm understanding that correctly.... you refer, I presume, to 
on-the-job training... :-)

FWIW, I learned the hard way that re-wiring a house was 90% building work 
(at which I'm pretty useless) and 10% electrical (which I can do - though I 
know my limits).


> Like I said, if it isn't safety critical, then by all means read the book
> and follow the instructions. It will probably work out fine. But if
> getting it wrong could kill or injure someone, then do it under
> supervision until you are sure you know what you are about.


I agree with that.  But the OP didn't give me the impression that s/he 
didn't understand the risks, or would be unsafe.  Rather, that he wanted to 
comply with all relevant regs, which he and you seem to accept are at least 
as much to do with matters other than safety.


> There are plenty of books on driving cars - but I would hope that no one
> would think reading a book and getting a bit of advice on a newsgroup
> would be a reasonable replacement for supervised tuition.


Ah - but there are things about driving which it's useful to read about (and 
aren't covered by driving schools) and you certainly need to read the 
Highway Code before your test.  I've never seen a book claiming to teach 
clutch control...

The latest regs are clear - the "layman" isn't banned from doing the work - 
but it must be checked and certified.  I assume the OP will follow them, 
since he asked the question.

-- 
Martin

[Remove barrier to reply]

I understand the risks. Many years ago I both rewired my old house and
installed gas CH. These days you have to follow the rules and regs to the
letter which are designed to be 101% foolprof and safe i.e positioning of
flues away from windows etc. But get it 10mm wrong and it illegal. I find
there are a few good tradesmen but many complete idiots - like the builder
who did my extension - supposedly 40 years experience but tried to fob me
off with a 2.5" lintel to span an 8ft window! I had drawn the plans and
specified a catnic. When I told him it was 4x overstressed he tried to blame
the builders merchant for misinforming him! hence given the knowledge of
regs and calculations and background in engineering etc I think I am better
than most around
"Martin"  wrote in message
news:LVP8f.7978$sA4.649@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

>
> "Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:11m7d7kk9c5f4b3@corp.supernews.com...
> > Martin wrote:
> >> "Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:11m6vassespsi43@corp.supernews.com...
> >>
> >>>SS wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Is it possible to view the gas and electric regs online i.e. rules
> >>>>re.siting
> >>>>of gas flues, earthing regs etc. Now that DIY is slowly being
'hijacked'
> >>>>by
> >>>>the state, probably due to a few incompetents blowing themselves up.
> >>>>Nevertheless any works I do should follow the rules to the letter. The
> >>>>work
> >>>>itself is not rocket science. Why pay through the nose for a
> >>>>'professional'?
> >>
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>>Basically, if you need to ask how to do the job, you need to leave it
to
> >>>someone who doesn't.
> >>
> >>
> >> You've started with a reasonable reply, then drifted off into nonsense
> >> (no offence, but I couldn't disagree more...)
> >>
> >> The OP recognizes he needs to learn / understand something (wish there
> >> were more like that).  Knowing the regs doesn't mean you can do the
job.
> >> It may be as simple as knowing the date when new cable colours become
> >> mandatory. That doesn't mean using the old colours is unsafe.
> >>
> >> If you reckon "needing to ask" is a problem, where do you suppose the
> >> next generation of "professionals" is going to come from?  Do you
propose
> >> firing all today's apprentices and trainees because they weren't born
> >> with knowledge of 2005 regs?  Would you ban DIY books?  Ban newsgroups
> >> like this?
> >
> > You snipped the bit of my reply that talked about apprentices having
their
> > mistakes corrected.
>
> Sorry about that.  I did read it, and up to that stage I wasn't
particularly
> disagreeing with your sentiments.
>
> > The problem with books is that they are open loop - if
> > you have misunderstood, the mistake goes uncorrected. The "next
> > generation" are going to come from apprentices and trainees who will
still
> > make mistkase - no matter how well they thought they understood the
books.
> >
> > Books and DIY books are fine where the consequences of mistakes are
> > acceptable - I learnt cooking that way and my first rice pudding ended
up
> > as the garage door stop.
>
> Tee hee.  But you recognised it wasn't quite what you had expected ... and
I
> bet you found out how to make an edible one without a personal supervisor
/
> tutor.
>
> >> You've got the wrong end of the stick, and IMHO done an injustice to
the
> >> OP. As Rumsfeld might say, the "known unknown" isn't a problem;  it's
the
> >> "unknown unknown" you should worry about.
> >
> > The "unknown unknown" is how the OP will interpret the book.
>
> Actually, his / her question was simply "are the regs available on-line".
I
> don't know for certain, but I feel sure the OP can do the work - just
wants
> to know what current (excuse pun) regs have to be followed.
>
> > Just as I
> > think that you misunderstood my post.
>
> > I get your point and it is well made. However, I learnt far more useful
> > stuff, during my apprenticeship, out of the classroom than I ever learnt
> > in it.
>
> Er - I hope I'm understanding that correctly.... you refer, I presume, to
> on-the-job training... :-)
>
> FWIW, I learned the hard way that re-wiring a house was 90% building work
> (at which I'm pretty useless) and 10% electrical (which I can do - though
I
> know my limits).
>
> > Like I said, if it isn't safety critical, then by all means read the
book
> > and follow the instructions. It will probably work out fine. But if
> > getting it wrong could kill or injure someone, then do it under
> > supervision until you are sure you know what you are about.
>
> I agree with that.  But the OP didn't give me the impression that s/he
> didn't understand the risks, or would be unsafe.  Rather, that he wanted
to
> comply with all relevant regs, which he and you seem to accept are at
least
> as much to do with matters other than safety.
>
> > There are plenty of books on driving cars - but I would hope that no one
> > would think reading a book and getting a bit of advice on a newsgroup
> > would be a reasonable replacement for supervised tuition.
>
> Ah - but there are things about driving which it's useful to read about
(and
> aren't covered by driving schools) and you certainly need to read the
> Highway Code before your test.  I've never seen a book claiming to teach
> clutch control...
>
> The latest regs are clear - the "layman" isn't banned from doing the
work -
> but it must be checked and certified.  I assume the OP will follow them,
> since he asked the question.
>
> --
> Martin
>
> [Remove barrier to reply]
>
>
>
>