[originally posted at the bottom of the recent thread "French plugs" but
I think may have been missed by most people - so, apologies if you've
already seen this!]

We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I 
usually take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide lighting,
but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant (you'll
gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must be
getting old).

I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another 
one (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate 
switches.  How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an RCD 
unit obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in 12V 
for a start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?

Thanks
David

"Lobster"  wrote in message 
news:NdYje.14071$hn5.12514@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

>
> We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I usually 
> take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide lighting,
> but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant (you'll
> gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must be
> getting old).
>
> I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another one 
> (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate switches. 
> How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an RCD unit 
> obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in 12V for a 
> start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?


You could go to a camping supplier and get purpose-designed and made 
equipment.

Mary

Mary wrote;

> You could go to a camping supplier and get purpose-designed and made 
> equipment.


I was going to suggest a caravan accessories place.

Dave

David Lang wrote:

> Mary wrote;
> 
>>You could go to a camping supplier and get purpose-designed and made 
>>equipment.
> 
> 
> I was going to suggest a caravan accessories place.


But hey, this is uk.D-I-Y!

Must admit, I haven't been to a retail place for a looksee (there aren't 
any in the vicinity) but I have spent time trawling the online suppliers 
- however haven't come up with anything very inspiring or what I want, 
really.  Thought the experts here would be a better source of info!

David

"Lobster"  wrote in message 
news:X30ke.10492$Nt.9637@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

> David Lang wrote:
>> Mary wrote;
>>
>>>You could go to a camping supplier and get purpose-designed and made 
>>>equipment.
>>
>>
>> I was going to suggest a caravan accessories place.
>
> But hey, this is uk.D-I-Y!


I know, I was reluctant to suggest it. But having designed and made a 12v 
lighting system for one of our tents which was legal and safe and efficient 
we realised that we'd paid far more to Maplin than we would have to Towsure 
as well as taking a long time in the designing and making :-(

If you really want to know what we did I'm sure I can dig out the details. 
But try Towsure or Barrans or find a local caravan or camping supplier first 
to see what's available.

Sometimes DIY isn't the best.

Mary

>
> Must admit, I haven't been to a retail place for a looksee (there aren't 
> any in the vicinity) but I have spent time trawling the online suppliers - 
> however haven't come up with anything very inspiring or what I want, 
> really.  Thought the experts here would be a better source of info!
>
> David 

Mary Fisher wrote:


> I know, I was reluctant to suggest it. But having designed and made a 12v 
> lighting system for one of our tents which was legal and safe and efficient


There's hardly a great deal of 'design' to a system like that though. 
And as for legality, I'm not aware of any laws governing the use of low 
voltage circuits - can someone enlighten me?



-- 
Grunff

Lobster wrote:


> We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I
> usually take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide
lighting,
> but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant
(you'll
> gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must
be
> getting old).
>
> I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another

> one (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate
> switches.  How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an
RCD
> unit obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in
12V
> for a start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?



I'm not that clear what youre asking. If you go qith 12v...

Wire can be got from the scrapbox, or anywhere that sells wire,
anything that carries the current of the bulbs is ok for 12v. 12v bulbs
can be got from scrapyards, auto spares, brake lights typically 21w,
headlights typ 55w halogen. Interior lights typ 3-5w.

5w = .4 amps
21w = 1.8 amps <- about right for a tent
55w = 4.6 amps
roughly

no need for an rcd at 12v. A fuse is wise, and be much more careful
with halogen bulbs, they run seriously hot and can explode.

Wire: thin speaker wire and bell wire are normally 1A rated.
Thicker speaker wire can be 2 or 3A

Connectors: choc blocks are ok for short term use, unless the joint is
liable to sit in water, in which case something well insulated would be
wanted.


NT

In message ,
  bigcat@meeow.co.uk wrote:


> Lobster wrote:
> 
> > We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I
> > usually take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide
> lighting,
> > but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant
> (you'll
> > gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must
> be
> > getting old).
> >
> > I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another
> 
> > one (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate
> > switches.  How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an
> RCD
> > unit obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in
> 12V
> > for a start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?
> 
> 
> I'm not that clear what youre asking. If you go qith 12v...
> 
> Wire can be got from the scrapbox, or anywhere that sells wire,
> anything that carries the current of the bulbs is ok for 12v. 12v bulbs
> can be got from scrapyards, auto spares, brake lights typically 21w,
> headlights typ 55w halogen. Interior lights typ 3-5w.
> 
> 5w = .4 amps
> 21w = 1.8 amps <- about right for a tent
> 55w = 4.6 amps
> roughly
> 
> no need for an rcd at 12v. A fuse is wise, and be much more careful
> with halogen bulbs, they run seriously hot and can explode.
> 
> Wire: thin speaker wire and bell wire are normally 1A rated.
> Thicker speaker wire can be 2 or 3A
> 
> Connectors: choc blocks are ok for short term use, unless the joint is
> liable to sit in water, in which case something well insulated would be
> wanted.
> 


BUT (it's been many years since my Hurricane was last out of the
attic)... 12V systems are *not* intrinsically safe.

In particular I'd have thought that there was a very big risk involved
in a tent, especially if cooking or alternative lighting uses gas. Any
slightly dodgy connection or worn switch is going to cause sparking
or get hot, and we all know what happens to tents if there's the
slightest hint of a flame.

As I said, it's a long time since I've been camping and I've never been
caravanning so I'm not aware of any particular regulations, but if I
were considering installing electric power in my own tent I'd want it to
be as intrinsically safe as possible. Maybe not quite up to the
standards required for working in explosive atmospheres, but certainly a
step or two better than a bit of bell-wire and a few choccy blocks.

Hwyl!

M.

-- 
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... PARENT: Don't you understand English? HONEST CHILD: No, not fully!

"Martin Angove"  wrote in message

>
> As I said, it's a long time since I've been camping and I've never been
> caravanning so I'm not aware of any particular regulations, but if I
> were considering installing electric power in my own tent I'd want it to
> be as intrinsically safe as possible. Maybe not quite up to the
> standards required for working in explosive atmospheres, but certainly a
> step or two better than a bit of bell-wire and a few choccy blocks.


I couldn't agree more. Try Towsure or one of the other specialist, it's not 
expensive.

Mary

>
> Hwyl!
>
> M.
>
> -- 
> Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
> Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
> ... PARENT: Don't you understand English? HONEST CHILD: No, not fully! 

Martin Angove wrote:

> In message , 
> bigcat@meeow.co.uk wrote:
> 
> 
>> Lobster wrote:
>> 
>>> We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and 
>>> I usually take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide
>>> lighting, but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more
>>> elegant (you'll gather I'm not really into the spirit of this
>>> camping mallarkey. Must be getting old).
>>> 
>>> I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with 
>>> another one (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally 
>>> with separate switches.  How would the panel recommend doing this
>>> safely? I use an RCD unit obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done 
>>> in 12V for a start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?
>> 
>> I'm not that clear what youre asking. If you go qith 12v...


OK, sorry, will try to be more specific. I suppose the first question 
would be, given that I would usually have mains to the tent (ie, an 
RCD-protected 4-way block in the corner), does it make more sense to 
wire 240V flex from this to the sleeping compartments, which could then 
have their own mains lights, or better/safer to step down to 12V next to 
the 4-way block, and then do the same thing but using 12V flex/lights 
instead?

Apart from safety issues (or maybe not, judging from Martin's post 
below) one point in favour of 12V would be that if ever we haven't got 
mains in the tent, we could hook up to the car battery instead (couldn't 
we?)

What sort of 12V PSU would be suitable for this?  Presumably your 
average wall-wart would be much too low-rated; and the sort you usually 
use for 12V lighting indoors wouldn't be appropriate for a tent.

What I'm imagining is a single flex, with probably 3 daisy-chained, 
individually-switched lights (in-line torpedo switches?), no more than 
20W each surely.  They'd also need to be pretty lightweight, as this 
tent as no poles inside to attach stuff to like they did when I was a 
kid; here, the fabric's all suspended from external carbon-fibre poles, 
so the lights will hang from tapes attached to the seams, say.  So they 
can't run too hot, either.


> In particular I'd have thought that there was a very big risk 
> involved in a tent, especially if cooking or alternative lighting 
> uses gas. Any slightly dodgy connection or worn switch is going to 
> cause sparking or get hot, and we all know what happens to tents if 
> there's the slightest hint of a flame.


Point taken - safety is paramount here!  I take it you're not suggesting 
that 12V could be inherently more dangerous than 240V from that point of 
view, are you?

As I say, I have looked around (Mary!) for a suitable system, but unless 
I'm missing something, there's nothing available along the above lines, 
and I don't believe it's rocket science to put together my own version 
safely.

Thanks for all the input!!

David

A case for part T - P ??

:-)

"Lobster"  wrote in message 
news:NdYje.14071$hn5.12514@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

> [originally posted at the bottom of the recent thread "French plugs" but
> I think may have been missed by most people - so, apologies if you've
> already seen this!]
>
> We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I usually 
> take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide lighting,
> but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant (you'll
> gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must be
> getting old).
>
> I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another one 
> (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate switches. 
> How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an RCD unit 
> obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in 12V for a 
> start.  Where would I find suitable kit to do this?
>

After finding the Towsure mains tent lights would break the bank, and having 
experienced 12V lights not being bright enough in a large tent I purchased a 
21" and 8" mains light + diffusers from TLC. Siliconed diffusers in place 
slightly so wouldn't fall off during transport and wired in using arctic 
coloured cable, so as to be tough, back to "mains unit" (via plug) in tent. 
Attached to centre of tent roof using hooks. Been using this for 3 years now 
absolutely fine.

A mate of mine made his own "mains unit" by buying a 25A RCD and 10A (16A?) 
MCB and water proof MK socket and mounting all in a waterproof small 
consumer unit along with 20meters of cable. Problems were, cost more than 
the 53 unit from Towsure, still only had one plug and had no tent pole 
clips, which is extremely handy. He did this after using 12V systems for 
years, but had had a couple of failiures of in tent mains to 12V power 
supplies (not too happy damp I presume) as well as melting and fire of the 
"cigarette lighter" style 12V connectors despite only taking 21Watts (< 
2amps), it appears these type connectors suffer corrosion and heat up. 
Anyway he has had no problems with the mains lighting.

"Lobster"  wrote in message 
news:Huike.12636$WQ3.952@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...

>>>>


> Apart from safety issues (or maybe not, judging from Martin's post below) 
> one point in favour of 12V would be that if ever we haven't got mains in 
> the tent, we could hook up to the car battery instead (couldn't we?)


12V is more versatile. Your car battery woldn't have any favours done to it 
though (although I gather you're not using it often!) For anyone who does 
want to use 12V a lot a leisure battery is far better.

>
>
> As I say, I have looked around (Mary!) for a suitable system, but unless 
> I'm missing something, there's nothing available along the above lines, 
> and I don't believe it's rocket science to put together my own version 
> safely.


No, but do you really NEED anything fancy?

I'm not asking you, just putting the question for you to consider for 
yourself. I do that more and more these days - put questions to myself that 
is.

Mry