I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
Cheers,
Simon.

sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:

> I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
> Cheers,
> Simon.


By eck! your hands will be sore.

Boards over trench and as a good measure polythene over boards pegged into
the soil.

In article , 
sm_jamieson@hotmail.com says...

> I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.


Covering with something like shuttering ply will keep most of the 
weather out, if it still crumbles you might want to use shuttering too, 
if you're going near the water table you're not going to keep the bottom 
dry and you might have to pump it out.  Considering the effort involved 
it might be better to get a man with a JCB.

> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.

I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
Simon.

sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:

>>Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
> 
> I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
> Simon.
> 

Mini digger?

Richard Conway wrote:

> sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man
>>> with a JCB.
>>
>> I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access
>> etc. Simon.
>>
> Mini digger?


He said "save money", hence him digging it out. :-)

sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:

>>Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
> 
> I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
> Simon.
> 


Might be worth getting some cheap labour in to help.

Also its worth working how to get the earth out if access is really 
narrow (bucketing that amount of material won' t be fun) and considering 
the disposal approach (Skip/Hi-ab/Trailer to tip etc).

HTH,

Alex.

wrote in message 
news:1127231466.386462.316940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.


How deep? Anything more than about knee deep should have side shuttering for 
safety and putting that in is a skilled job. It would be cheaper to hire a 
trenching machine.

Colin Bignell

On 20 Sep 2005 08:51:06 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:


>I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
>to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
>i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
>Cheers,
>Simon.


A min digger is 60 quid a day, or 15 quid an hour round my way, much
much less than the cost of a decent back specalist.

Make your saving elsewhere, or you will reget it.

Rick

On 20 Sep 2005 09:20:09 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:


>> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
>I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
>Simon.


A 750KG machine will go through a std front door, and still dig a
decent sozed hole in a day.

Rick

sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:


> I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.


	Depends on the soil. Are you on a clay subsoil? You may need to dig in 
a sump to allow you to pump out any water which collects. How deep? You 
may need to angle the sides of the trench to improve stability.

	Regards
	Capitol

ben wrote:


> He said "save money", hence him digging it out. :-)


A 1.5 tonne excavator for a week is only going to be a couple of hundred.

(Still I suppose it depends on what foundations we are talking about!)

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

John Rumm wrote:

> ben wrote:
>
> > He said "save money", hence him digging it out. :-)
>

if you are going to dig it out yourself its alot of very hard work
which takes a lot of time. Diging by hand was beneficail for me as i
had a myriad of drains to avoid, i'm sure the cost of repairing a
broken drain would have made my digging by hand worth it.
If you are going to dig by hand i found an irishman very useful and a
good trench shovel.

>I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
> Cheers,
> Simon.


I dug the footings for our extension by hand. Must have been about 100 foot 
long and 5 foot deep. A digger was ruled out partly because of access and 
mainly cost.

It was quite a job but I was very proud when I had finished, I still am in 
fact. Dunno if I would do it again though.

Best strategy was a mattock to loosen the soil and a long handled pointed 
shovel to lift the spoil up out of the trench.

I only used a conventional shovel to square up the bottom and sides. Aren't 
conventional shovel handles just too short? They kill my back and I'm only 
5'10" I suppose that probably they are made to a pattern conceived back in 
Victorian times. To see our 6'6" builder use one was both comical and 
painful at the same time, the number of back problems caused by too short 
tools must be massive.


Henry

In article , d@d.com says...
<snip>

> Best strategy was a mattock to loosen the soil and a long handled pointed 
> shovel to lift the spoil up out of the trench.
> 
> I only used a conventional shovel to square up the bottom and sides. Aren't 
> conventional shovel handles just too short? They kill my back and I'm only 
> 5'10" I suppose that probably they are made to a pattern conceived back in 
> Victorian times. To see our 6'6" builder use one was both comical and 
> painful at the same time, the number of back problems caused by too short 
> tools must be massive.
> 

You can't beat a good Cornish shovel for taking the strain off your back 
a bit - handy for leaning on too  :-)

Rick wrote:

> On 20 Sep 2005 09:20:09 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
> >I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
> >Simon.
>
> A 750KG machine will go through a std front door, and still dig a


And what will it do to the carpets?

MBQ

wrote in message
news:1127231466.386462.316940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
> Cheers,
> Simon.


I was going to dig out my garage base (3x5m) and trench foundations by hand.
I spent a whole day getting not very far (clay and compacted soil with some
old tree roots from felled trees). I had thought it might take a week to do.
After my day I had a guy in with a digger. He spent all day (with few
breaks) digging it out and shifting the spoil and he managed to sort out the
roots from tree stumps etc. I thank god I didn't continue - the amount of
earth removed is incredible and I think I'd have been there for a few weeks,
let alone one week.

You might like to consider a bit of overtime to pay for a man with a digger.
I had considered just hiring a digger, but having seen this guy at work I'm
glad I didn't - he was very skilled and dug quite precise trenches and his
digger (which wasn't a particularly small digger) did struggle at times with
the compacted soil at the base of the trench.

Think hard about the logistics and whether it's really a cost saver to dig
by hand. I'm glad I didn't continue, but if you have benign soiul then maybe
it'll be the best plan for you.

Simon, if you'd like to see a picture of the trenches and the earth removed,
I'll happily email them to you this evening.

Of course, if a digger isn't an option, good luck with the digging!

Paul

In article , 
manatbandq@hotmail.com says...

> 
> Rick wrote:
> > On 20 Sep 2005 09:20:09 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
> > >I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
> > >Simon.
> >
> > A 750KG machine will go through a std front door, and still dig a
> 
> And what will it do to the carpets?
> 

Nothing if you lay some scaffold boards for it to drive on.

Rob Morley  wrote:


>In article , 
>manatbandq@hotmail.com says...
>> 
>> Rick wrote:
>> > On 20 Sep 2005 09:20:09 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
>> > >I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
>> > >Simon.
>> >
>> > A 750KG machine will go through a std front door, and still dig a
>> 
>> And what will it do to the carpets?
>> 
>Nothing if you lay some scaffold boards for it to drive on.


.......there is still the door to fix though ;-)


--

In article , 
paint@duluxtheshaggydog.com says...

> Rob Morley  wrote:
> 
> >In article , 
> >manatbandq@hotmail.com says...
> >> 
> >> Rick wrote:
> >> > On 20 Sep 2005 09:20:09 -0700, sm_jamieson@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >> Considering the effort involved it might be better to get a man with a JCB.
> >> > >I agree, the issue would be access for the JCB. Narrow side access etc.
> >> > >Simon.
> >> >
> >> > A 750KG machine will go through a std front door, and still dig a
> >> 
> >> And what will it do to the carpets?
> >> 
> >Nothing if you lay some scaffold boards for it to drive on.
> 
> ......there is still the door to fix though ;-)
> 

Probably best to take it off before it gets ripped off  :-)

"Cordless Crazy"  wrote in message
news:Cordless.Crazy.1vpw9r@news.diybanter.com...

>
> sm_jamieson@hotmail.com Wrote:
> > I will probably be digging foundations by hand, over a length of time,
> > to save money. Any ideas for how to keep the trench in good condition,
> > i.e. no crumbling sides, turning to muddy mess etc.
> > Cheers,
> > Simon.
> One thing to bear in mind. Leave a couple of inches in the bottom of
> the trench throughout, and dig this last little bit completely out at
> the end, once you are ready to concrete. If your trenches are left open
> for months (especially when laziness kicks in!), the exposed earth face
> will become weathered and this is not ideal to go bearing foundations
> on!


I'd just like to add that even over a few hot days in the height of the
summer, the dried out sides of my trench gave cause for concern - I was
worried that the nice straight sides dug by a digger would deteriorate into
a mess as the soil dried and became unstable. Certainly the nice clean top
edges exhibited a tendency to fall into the trench at the slightest
provocation as the soil dried. I would think that keeping a neat trench in
the long term will require a lot of care and shoring.

Paul


> -- 
> Cordless Crazy