I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are having 4 
downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes first before 
skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the joists from wall and 
cut the holes later after skimming, and fish for the wires?
Many thanks for any advice.
Neil

Neil wrote:

> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
> having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes
> first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the
> joists from wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish for
> the wires?
> Many thanks for any advice.
> Neil


Er! I would have thought cutting the hole before plastering was the easiest
route.

You will get the best finish if you cut the holes after the skim, and
then fish for the wires.  However sometimes this just isn't possible,
and you need to pre-cut.

Plasterers should be able to cope, but...........

Neil wrote:

> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are having 4 
> downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes first before 
> skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the joists from wall and 
> cut the holes later after skimming, and fish for the wires?


It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.

Chris Bacon wrote:


> It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
> and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.


It's easier to make a major boob if you get the wire lost. Knock an
hole through after offering the board up. You don't have to pull the
wire through but you need to have it readily available.

Chris Bacon wrote:

> Neil wrote:
>> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
>> having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes
>> first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the
>> joists from wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish
>> for the wires?
>
> It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
> and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.


How so?

ben wrote:

> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>Neil wrote:
>>>I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
>>>having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes
>>>first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the
>>>joists from wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish
>>>for the wires?
>>
>>It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
>>and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.
> 
> How so?


Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed
into the hole and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the
float will change as you go over the hole. Holes are a PITA.

Chris Bacon wrote:

> ben wrote:
>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>> Neil wrote:
>>>> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
>>>> having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes
>>>> first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the
>>>> joists from wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish
>>>> for the wires?
>>>
>>> It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
>>> and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.
>>
>> How so?
>
> Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed
> into the hole and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the
> float will change as you go over the hole. Holes are a PITA.


I'd say the plaster will have no problem with the holes, however I
certainly wouldn't like to go from wall to wall  having to measure
whereabouts I located my wiring for the spots.

Even if the wires protruded through the ceiling but no holes where cut I
think the plaster would rather have a free run of the skim rather than have
to work around hanging wires.

"ben"  wrote in message 
news:E4UXe.111998$G8.97232@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Chris Bacon wrote:
>> ben wrote:
>>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
>>>>> having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes
>>>>> first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the
>>>>> joists from wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish
>>>>> for the wires?
>>>>
>>>> It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
>>>> and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.
>>>
>>> How so?
>>
>> Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed
>> into the hole and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the
>> float will change as you go over the hole. Holes are a PITA.
>
> I'd say the plaster will have no problem with the holes, however I
> certainly wouldn't like to go from wall to wall  having to measure
> whereabouts I located my wiring for the spots.
>
> Even if the wires protruded through the ceiling but no holes where cut I
> think the plaster would rather have a free run of the skim rather than 
> have
> to work around hanging wires.
>


Fish for them absoluteley. I just did this with five of them and it was dead 
easy, just leave a lot of wire where you will put the hole and measure where 
it is carefully. I didn`t even need to fish they just fell down. IME if you 
pre drill then bits of plaster end up falling away from the edge of the edge 
of the hole and it looks shite.

> 

googlebot wrote:

> "ben"  wrote in message
> news:E4UXe.111998$G8.97232@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>> ben wrote:
>>>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>>> I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We
>>>>>> are having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the
>>>>>> holes first before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire
>>>>>> is on the joists from wall and cut the holes later after
>>>>>> skimming, and fish for the wires?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards,
>>>>> and the skim will be of a more consistent thickness.
>>>>
>>>> How so?
>>>
>>> Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed
>>> into the hole and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the
>>> float will change as you go over the hole. Holes are a PITA.
>>
>> I'd say the plaster will have no problem with the holes, however I
>> certainly wouldn't like to go from wall to wall  having to measure
>> whereabouts I located my wiring for the spots.
>>
>> Even if the wires protruded through the ceiling but no holes where
>> cut I think the plaster would rather have a free run of the skim
>> rather than have
>> to work around hanging wires.
>>
>
> Fish for them absoluteley. I just did this with five of them and it
> was dead easy, just leave a lot of wire where you will put the hole
> and measure where it is carefully. I didn`t even need to fish they
> just fell down. IME if you pre drill then bits of plaster end up
> falling away from the edge of the edge of the hole and it looks shite.


Heh! but it won't matter what the hole looks like, the spots should
adequatly cover it.

In article <433007f9$1_2@x-privat.org>, Chris Bacon 
wrote:

> ben wrote:
> > Chris Bacon wrote:
> >>Neil wrote:
> >>>I am putting ceiling boards up tomorrow ready for skimming.  We are
> >>>having 4 downlighters in the room.  Is it better to make the holes first
> >>>before skimming, or measure exactly where the wire is on the joists from
> >>>wall and cut the holes later after skimming, and fish for the wires?
> >>
> >>It's easier for the plasterer if you cut holes afterwards, and the skim
> >>will be of a more consistent thickness.
> > 
> > How so?

> Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed into the hole
> and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the float will change as you go
> over the hole. Holes are a PITA.


Will a small hole be an answer (small enough to not effect the skimming, large
enough to remain visible)? If not then use a plumb bob to locate the spot and
put a small spot on the floor immediately under the point. Re-run after
skimming.

-- 
	John Cartmell	john@ followed by finnybank.com	  0845 006 8822
	Qercus magazine	FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527		www.finnybank.com
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John Cartmell wrote:

> Chris Bacon wrote:

>>Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed into the hole
>>and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the float will change as you go
>>over the hole. Holes are a PITA.
> 
> Will a small hole be an answer (small enough to not effect the skimming, large
> enough to remain visible)?


If you made a hole pencil-sized, say, then you'd get a
little damp spot which would stand out on the skim for
a while. However, you'd still need to cut the hole....
it's not hard to pull cable through (it helps to know
that it's roughly in the right place).

ben wrote:

> Chris Bacon wrote:

>>Have you ever skimmed a ceiling? The plaster will be pushed
>>into the hole and drip back. The pressure on the edge of the
>>float will change as you go over the hole. Holes are a PITA.
> 
> I'd say the plaster will have no problem with the holes, however I
> certainly wouldn't like to go from wall to wall  having to measure
> whereabouts I located my wiring for the spots.


Definetely cut the holes afterwards.  It's not rocket science to measure 
the rough locations of the cables; after all, you only have to be 
accurate to the nearest 14" span between two joists; then you push your 
hand through the newly-cut hole and fish around for the cable.

So before you start boarding up, mark the position of the ends of the 
joists on the wall just below the ceiling and add another mark 
indicating the 'run' down which your cables go.  Add another mark on the 
perpendicular wall showing where the cable will be (and where you want 
your holes)

david

Thanks to all for advice.  I have decided to cut holes after skimming.  I 
will measure very carefully  the position of lights as suggested, and use 
the plumb line to floor as a double check, marking the position.
Very grateful.
Neil