Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...

We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
rooms...
generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
quality...

However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...

Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until they're
good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed detached
in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about £4k?).

thanks
AJ

wrote in message 
news:1127161759.543135.24050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...

We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
rooms...
generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
quality...

However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...

Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until they're
good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed detached
in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).

thanks
AJ

I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.

Mary

"Mary Fisher"  wrote in message 
news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

>
>  wrote in message 
> news:1127161759.543135.24050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...
>
> We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
> rooms...
> generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
> good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
> Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
> quality...
>
> However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
> myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
> heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...
>
> Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until they're
> good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed detached
> in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).
>
> thanks
> AJ
>
> I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
>
> Mary
>
>

same here, im in the process of removing all 10 upvc windows the previous 
owner put in 3 years ago (cost him 6 grand) to replace them with wooden 
traditional style ones.  they look so much nicer and give a building style 
and character.  im presently priming, undercoating and glossing them in a 
lovely green colour.  im using high quality paint that will last 8 years. 
in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will 
give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.

if you have upvc, you will have to replace most units as they will mist up 
over time (anything from 0 to 20 years, the bigger panes, the most likely 
they will fail soonest)  plus the frames will yellow and you will be wishing 
you'd stuck with wood in 20 years time.

Steve

nospammer999@hotmail.com wrote:

> Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...
> 
> We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
> rooms...
> generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
> good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
> Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
> quality...
> 
> However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
> myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
> heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...
> 
> Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until they're
> good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed detached
> in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).
> 
> thanks
> AJ
> 

First ask yourself why the secondary glazing was put in there in the 
first place.

Are you within 200 yards, or so, of a road that has been introduced, 
up-graded, modified in any way, or some such other such thing that would 
induce the authorities in paying for this secondary glazing?

I had a motorway built round the back of our house and we were offered 
secondary glazing. This was at the same time that I was introducing 
double glazing. The compensation for the noise, house price drop and 
other things was such, that I decided to let it pay for double glazing.

House is quiet, but step outside of the back door and you can't talk to 
anyone more than 15 feet away.

I spoke to our MP, who wrote to the highways agency, who basically told 
a pile of lies about the landscaping and said stuff you, you will have 
to wait a long time before we tarmac with the quiet stuff, as the road 
surface is in fine condition.

Dave

"R.P.McMurphy"  wrote in message
news:432f32c2$0$17485$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

>
> "Mary Fisher"  wrote in message
> news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...
> >
> >  wrote in message
> > news:1127161759.543135.24050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...
> >
> > We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
> > rooms...
> > generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
> > good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
> > Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
> > quality...
> >
> > However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
> > myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
> > heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...
> >
> > Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until they're
> > good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed detached
> > in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).
> >
> > thanks
> > AJ
> >
> > I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >
> same here, im in the process of removing all 10 upvc windows the previous
> owner put in 3 years ago (cost him 6 grand) to replace them with wooden
> traditional style ones.  they look so much nicer and give a building style
> and character.  im presently priming, undercoating and glossing them in a
> lovely green colour.  im using high quality paint that will last 8 years.
> in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will
> give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.


Steve,

Presuming your windows are softwood, for your painting 'cycle' to work to
your expectations you will need the following:

1    A good grade of knot and shake free softwood for the windows.
2    The timber to have been pressure treated with a clear preservative such
as Vac-Vac.
3    Any knots and resinous areas treated with 'knotting'.
4    A good quality, oil based primer (aluminium wood primer under some
circumstances)
5    Two coats of a good quality, oil based undercoat.
6     One coat of a good quality, UV resistant gloss paint.  (Two would be
better).
7    The re-coat cycle to be every five years rather than eight - shorter if
near the coast or extreme weather area.


> if you have upvc, you will have to replace most units as they will mist up
> over time (anything from 0 to 20 years, the bigger panes, the most likely
> they will fail soonest)  plus the frames will yellow and you will be
wishing
> you'd stuck with wood in 20 years time.


With regards to the above.  That will generally apply to the low-grade
units - just the same as timber really.

Brian G

Mary Fisher  wrote in message
news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

>
>  wrote in message
>
>
> ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).
>
> thanks
> AJ
>
> I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
>
> Mary


Plastic windows, doors, and reconstituted wooddust/glue flooring.
Blockpaving driveways, Shellsuits and trainers,
http://www.iconbooks.co.uk/book.cfm?isbn=1-84046-479-8

:-)

-

nospammer999@hotmail.com wrote:

> Probably already suspect I know the answer to this...
>
> We have a 25 year old house ... secondary double glazed to most
> rooms...
> generally... somewhat surprisingly ... frames are still in reasonably
> good condition ... though desperate for repainting....
> Secondary glazing was put in by previous owners ... Everest... good
> quality...
>
> However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
> myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
> heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing...
> etc...
>
> Is the consensus of the group to stick with the originals until
> they're good & rotten (get them painted - any idea of costs for 4 bed
> detached in NW?) ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).


There will be a difference between 'getting them painted' and 'getting them
painted properly'.
As to whether you should replace with upvc windows, that depends on if you
like them, and if you think it fits in with the 'character' of your home.
We don't live in a noisy area, but I'm very pleased with the 15+ year old
upvc windows that we have. Some (two) did mist up, but they are easily
replaced.
I don't think you'll get a group concensus, but I vote for upvc.

"Mark"  wrote in message 
news:JYHXe.15807$6p.1897@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

>
> Mary Fisher  wrote in message
> news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...
>>
>>  wrote in message
>>
>>
>> ... or is modern upvc the way to go (@ about 4k?).
>>
>> thanks
>> AJ
>>
>> I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
>>
>> Mary
>
> Plastic windows, doors, and reconstituted wooddust/glue flooring.
> Blockpaving driveways, Shellsuits and trainers,
> http://www.iconbooks.co.uk/book.cfm?isbn=1-84046-479-8
>
> :-)


LOL!

Mary

>
> -
>
> 

"Mary Fisher"  wrote in message 
news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

>
>
> I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
>
> Mary


I should have said that Spouse replaced our 60 year old neglected [by us 
:-( ] with wooden frames into which he fitted factory made-to-measure double 
glazed panes.

That's the best of both world, in our opinion. It looks good because you can 
choose your own finish, doesn't restrict light by wide frames, you have the 
level of glazing you want and it's far cheaper than upvc.

Mary

>
> 

"Mary Fisher"  wrote in message 
news:432fc373$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

>
> "Mary Fisher"  wrote in message 
> news:432f20d3$0$5853$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't be paid to have upvc dg.
>>
>> Mary
>
> I should have said that Spouse replaced our 60 year old neglected [by us 
> :-( ] with wooden frames into which he fitted factory made-to-measure 
> double glazed panes.
>
> That's the best of both world, in our opinion. It looks good because you 
> can choose your own finish, doesn't restrict light by wide frames, you 
> have the level of glazing you want and it's far cheaper than upvc.


An alternative we have had fitted which satisfied most of the requirements 
(except cheapness) are upvc coated aluminium units. They have narrow frames, 
the same size as the wooden ones they replace (from 25m the house looks no 
different (assuming the frame were white to start with, which they were!), 
they are quiet and maintenance free. Not everyone's ideal solution but at 
least it gets you away from the appalling thick frames of upvc only units

Bob Mannix

"Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
news:dgogan$78g$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...

>
snip
> An alternative we have had fitted which satisfied most of the requirements
> (except cheapness) are upvc coated aluminium units. They have narrow
frames,
> the same size as the wooden ones they replace (from 25m the house looks no
> different (assuming the frame were white to start with, which they were!),
> they are quiet and maintenance free. Not everyone's ideal solution but at
> least it gets you away from the appalling thick frames of upvc only units
>
> Bob Mannix


Any good suppliers Bob?

In article ,
    wrote:

> However, rather than repaint all (or get them done as I haven't time
> myself...)... we're getting seduced by the upc windows... clean look,
> heat/sound insulation without fiddling with secondary glazing... etc...


If sound insulation is a priority, stick with the secondary glazing. It is
a great deal more effective than normal double glazing.

-- 
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Grumps  wrote:

> As to whether you should replace with upvc windows, that depends on if
> you like them, and if you think it fits in with the 'character' of your
> home. We don't live in a noisy area, but I'm very pleased with the 15+
> year old upvc windows that we have. Some (two) did mist up, but they are
> easily replaced.


Yes. I fitted a Screwfix UPVC window and patio doors in the kitchen of my
victorian house. Wasn't worried about altering the outside appearance at
the back but wanted maximum light and convenience, and the original or
period style windows just wouldn't be big enough. I originally did this
conversion with wood frames and they started rotting within 10 years -
something to do with the window being flush with the outside wall rather
than recessed, as traditional sash types are.

I'm delighted with them. They clean up like new with soap and water
despite being south facing. And don't jam in the winter.  I'd not have
them in other rooms, however, as they'd spoil the looks both inside and
out. But few want a traditional victorian kitchen. ;-)

-- 
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Paul Andrews" <ac297@dial.pipex.commmmm> wrote in message 
news:%gQXe.19284$hQ4.13977@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

> "Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
> news:dgogan$78g$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...
>>
> snip
>> An alternative we have had fitted which satisfied most of the 
>> requirements
>> (except cheapness) are upvc coated aluminium units. They have narrow
> frames,
>> the same size as the wooden ones they replace (from 25m the house looks 
>> no
>> different (assuming the frame were white to start with, which they 
>> were!),
>> they are quiet and maintenance free. Not everyone's ideal solution but at
>> least it gets you away from the appalling thick frames of upvc only units
>>
>> Bob Mannix
>
> Any good suppliers Bob?


Unfortunately (for you, possibly!) we used a local company, 3-D 
Aluminium-Plas in Eynsham, near Oxford. Good-ish, the windows are OK and we 
have had them back to do a second lot in the extension - they did leave the 
odd mark the first time and there was some snagging on the French doors we 
had to get them back for but pleased over all.

The builder quoted for upvc coated aluminium as well from his "window 
bloke", about whom we had heard bad reports. The prices were about the same 
as it turned out.

I believe I may have some pictures is required.

Bob Mannix

R.P.McMurphy wrote:

>>
> 
> same here, im in the process of removing all 10 upvc windows the previous 
> owner put in 3 years ago (cost him 6 grand) to replace them with wooden 
> traditional style ones.  they look so much nicer and give a building style 
> and character.  im presently priming, undercoating and glossing them in a 
> lovely green colour.  im using high quality paint that will last 8 years. 
> in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will 
> give them another coat.  in 8 years time, I will give them another coat.
> 
> if you have upvc, you will have to replace most units as they will mist up 
> over time (anything from 0 to 20 years, the bigger panes, the most likely 
> they will fail soonest)  plus the frames will yellow and you will be wishing 
> you'd stuck with wood in 20 years time.
> 

	Sounds like an advocate of "more time than common sense". With wooden 
windows, every time that you redecorate a room, you have the chore of 
painting windows.  IME they warp, are impossible to fully draughtproof, 
rot, and require you to climb a ladder to repaint externally every 5 
years. My experience of 20+ year old pvc windows is that they have not 
misted, have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an 
occasional spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame 
ratios, if you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance 
free and I can spend my spare time doing something important, like 
carrying her handbag!!

	To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no. 
Immediately devalue by 20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof 
maintenance free fittings.

	Regards
	Capitol

> 

"Capitol"  wrote in message 
news:dgpjp2$t9k$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

>>
> Sounds like an advocate of "more time than common sense". With wooden 
> windows, every time that you redecorate a room, you have the chore of 
> painting windows.


If you're redecorating don't you want to change the colour scheme?


>  IME they warp,


Not in mine.


> are impossible to fully draughtproof,


Not in mine.


> rot,


Not in mine,


> and require you to climb a ladder to repaint externally every 5 years.

Fun!

> My experience of 20+ year old pvc windows is that they have not misted, 
> have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an occasional 
> spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame ratios, if 
> you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance free and I 
> can spend my spare time doing something important, like carrying her 
> handbag!!


And looking at the horrid windows.

Perhaps you don't careabout aesthetics...

>
> To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no. Immediately 
> devalue by 20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof maintenance 
> free fittings.


Oh come on!

Mary

>
> Regards
> Capitol
>> 

Capitol  wrote:


>My experience of 20+ year old pvc windows is that they have not 
>misted, have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an 
>occasional spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame 
>ratios, if you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance 
>free and I can spend my spare time doing something important, like 
>carrying her handbag!!
>
>	To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no. 
>Immediately devalue by 20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof 
>maintenance free fittings.


To plagarise Winston Churchill:   yes, but the upvc will still be ugly
in the morning.



--

Matt wrote:


> Capitol  wrote:
> 
> 
>>My experience of 20+ year old pvc windows is that they have not 
>>misted, have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an 
>>occasional spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame 
>>ratios, if you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance 
>>free and I can spend my spare time doing something important, like 
>>carrying her handbag!!
>>
>>	To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no. 
>>Immediately devalue by 20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof 
>>maintenance free fittings.
> 
> 
> To plagarise Winston Churchill:   yes, but the upvc will still be ugly
> in the morning.


	Not in my view, when compared with old, peeling, rotting, draughty 
wooden windows!!

	Regards
	Capitol

Matt wrote:


> Capitol  wrote:
> 
> 
>>My experience of 20+ year old pvc windows is that they have not 
>>misted, have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an 
>>occasional spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame 
>>ratios, if you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance 
>>free and I can spend my spare time doing something important, like 
>>carrying her handbag!!
>>
>>	To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no. 
>>Immediately devalue by 20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof 
>>maintenance free fittings.
> 
> 
> To plagarise Winston Churchill:   yes, but the upvc will still be ugly
> in the morning.
>
> 

	Sorry, missed a chance!

	Yes, but he was drunk when he said it!!

	Regards
	Capitol

Capitol wrote:

> Matt wrote:
>
> > Capitol  wrote:
> >
> >
> >>My experience of 20 year old pvc windows is that they have not
> >>misted, have not discoloured,  do not require maintenance other than an
> >>occasional spot of oil on the hinges and give much bigger glass to frame
> >>ratios, if you specify the style correctly. They are totally maintenance
> >>free and I can spend my spare time doing something important, like
> >>carrying her handbag!!
> >>
> >>	To me, a victorian house with wooden window frames is a no-no.
> >>Immediately devalue by £20K for the hassle of putting in draught proof
> >>maintenance free fittings.
> >
> >
> > To plagarise Winston Churchill:   yes, but the upvc will still be ugly
> > in the morning.
> >
> >
> 	Sorry, missed a chance!
>
> 	Yes, but he was drunk when he said it!!
> 

Yebbut, drunk or not she was ugly, and plastic windows are crap

"Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
news:dgomat$9dc$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...

>
> "Paul Andrews" <ac297@dial.pipex.commmmm> wrote in message
> news:%gQXe.19284$hQ4.13977@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> > "Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
> > news:dgogan$78g$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...
> >>
> > snip
> >> An alternative we have had fitted which satisfied most of the
> >> requirements
> >> (except cheapness) are upvc coated aluminium units.

snip

> > Any good suppliers Bob?
>
> Unfortunately (for you, possibly!) we used a local company, 3-D
> Aluminium-Plas in Eynsham, near Oxford. Good-ish, the windows are OK and
we
> have had them back to do a second lot in the extension - they did leave
the
> odd mark the first time and there was some snagging on the French doors we
> had to get them back for but pleased over all.
>
> The builder quoted for upvc coated aluminium as well from his "window
> bloke", about whom we had heard bad reports. The prices were about the
same
> as it turned out.
>
> I believe I may have some pictures is required.


By all means, fling some pictures my way when you have time!

Thanks,

Paul


> Bob Mannix

"Paul Andrews" <ac297@dial.pipex.commmmm> wrote in message 
news:Hm3Ye.93$_56.9@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...

> "Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
> news:dgomat$9dc$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...
>>
>> "Paul Andrews" <ac297@dial.pipex.commmmm> wrote in message
>> news:%gQXe.19284$hQ4.13977@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>> > "Bob Mannix"  wrote in message
>> > news:dgogan$78g$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...
>> >>
>> > snip
>> >> An alternative we have had fitted which satisfied most of the
>> >> requirements
>> >> (except cheapness) are upvc coated aluminium units.
>
> snip
>
> By all means, fling some pictures my way when you have time!
>

Some (unfortunately) low-res ones mailed to your email address (mmmm - not)

Bob

Mary Fisher  wrote:

>
>Perhaps you don't careabout aesthetics...


  Many people - men as well as women - think that appearance is
  more important than comfort and safety.
-- 
                                                         Selah

Capitol  wrote:


>
>
>Matt wrote:
 
>> To plagarise Winston Churchill:   yes, but the upvc will still be ugly
>> in the morning.
>>
>> 
>	Sorry, missed a chance!
>
>	Yes, but he was drunk when he said it!!


You'd need to be very drunk to think upvc windows still looked good in
the morning.  Upvc is the spawn of the devil and the true mark of a
council house chav. 


--