Hi Guys
My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.

We are situated adjoining farmland and regularly have strong winds
blowing against the house - which seems to find it's way indoors
through the floorboards and somehow even the doubleglazing???? (or it's
my imagination).

Our only heating is a few storage heaters which a) Cost us an arm and a
leg to run - and b) Don't warm the house up to any liveable standard.
So we supplement them with oil heaters. In winter this little lark sets
us back around £120/mth in electric charges  AND most of the house is
still freezing! Last winter we changed to a "Heatwise" tarrif that
gives us economy 7 heating 3 times a day instead of just after
midnight. This helped slightly but still bordering on stupid.

So - I have a few options.
1) Install oil heating. Roughly £5k. Not so cheap to run I gather.
2) Install more storage heaters. Going to cost me even more every
month!
3) Install heatpump and underfloor heating. Cheapest monthly cost but
God only knows how much to install. Guessing £10k if you include
ripping up the floor to install wet system.
4) Air conditioner central heating (No idea how much this costs to run)
And a few other systems which I can't find any info' on.

(OOPS - NO GAS in the village!!)

What the hell do I do!?!? I want the house to be warm throughout but to
be able to keep it that way for a reasonable cost.

Anyone with experience in this area please advise.

Many thanks
Fly

In article , 
flygti@winning.com says...

> Hi Guys
> My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
> tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
> 1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
> if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
> 

There's a good place to start then.

Rob Morley wrote:

> In article ,
> flygti@winning.com says...
>> Hi Guys
>> My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>> tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>> 1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not
>> sure if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
>>
> There's a good place to start then.


yep, i agree.  spend a decent amount on insulating the loft and have the 
wall cavities filled too.  then start blocking the draughts, but not all of 
them, you need some movement.  do you have open fires?  if you do and you 
use them, it is likly that the hot air going up the chimeny is pulling air 
from inside the house and will cause more more draughts to be felt.

then fit an oil fired central heating system.

steve

flygti@winning.com wrote:


> My first post!! 


Welcome to the madhouse ;-)


> After extensive research on the web I am close to
> tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a


<snip - tale of freezing woe>

Start with the low hanging fruit!

Sounds like the first task is reduceing the amount of heat you are 
currently throwing away. That means insulate the loft to a reasonable 
standard, and deal with some of the drafts.


> So - I have a few options.
> 1) Install oil heating. Roughly 5k. Not so cheap to run I gather.


That will be your cheapest option in all probability.


> 2) Install more storage heaters. Going to cost me even more every
> month!


Don't fancy that much... Even with te better tarrifs they are never 
going to be that controllable.


> 3) Install heatpump and underfloor heating. Cheapest monthly cost but
> God only knows how much to install. Guessing 10k+ if you include
> ripping up the floor to install wet system.


Probably not a sensible choice in an existing house - fine if you are 
building new.


> 4) Air conditioner central heating (No idea how much this costs to run)
> And a few other systems which I can't find any info' on.


Good deal cheaper than straight electric heating (you can get 
approaching 4kW out in exchange for 1kW in), however there are 
limitations - some systems can not function when the ouside temperature 
falls below zero for example. Hence they are good for spot heating (and 
cooling) in things like conservatories etc, but probably not a general 
putpose heating system replacement.


> What the hell do I do!?!? I want the house to be warm throughout but to
> be able to keep it that way for a reasonable cost.


The only way to do that is make it so that it does not lose the heat so 
quickly once you have put it in.


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

wrote in message
news:1126998307.030114.12050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
<snip>


> (OOPS - NO GAS in the village!!)


Not even stored gas, those large (white) tanks that some people (and
industries) have when no mains gas is present?

In message , 
flygti@winning.com writes

>Hi Guys
>My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
>if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
>

As others have said some sorting out there is needed.

>
>1) Install oil heating. Roughly 5k. Not so cheap to run I gather.


Alternatively LPG gas fired CH (ones that have the big tanks in the 
garden). Neither of these is going to be as cheap to run as a mains gas 
CH , but in your case probably one of these is the best option. Will be 
cheaper than an electric powered system of some sort



>
>What the hell do I do!?!? I want the house to be warm throughout but to
>be able to keep it that way for a reasonable cost.
>

With draft proofing, insulation and a decent heating system should be 
achievable
-- 
Chris French

In message , 
flygti@winning.com wrote

>Hi Guys

>My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
>if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.


12 inches of loft insulation could save around 20 to 30% on heating 
bills - or equivalent of adding 20 to 30% more heating. This is probably 
the most cost effective first step.


>
>We are situated adjoining farmland and regularly have strong winds
>blowing against the house - which seems to find it's way indoors
>through the floorboards


Fitted carpets


>and somehow even the doubleglazing???? (or it's
>my imagination).


Where are the storage heaters? If not under the windows you may find the 
cold air flowing downward from the windows makes the room appear to be 
colder because you have a cold draft at seating level.


-- 
Alan
mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk

flygti@winning.com wrote:


> Our only heating is a few storage heaters which a) Cost us an arm and a
> leg to run - and b) Don't warm the house up to any liveable standard.



Insulation insulation, as has been said.

If you still want to cut your bills or add more heat, then add flat
plate solar space heating. Heres one with 100% pa ROI. Its not a design
I'd choose myself, but should get you thinking:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.solar.thermal/browse_frm/thread/fdee87ff5a0b525b/93cc47463526c776?hl=en#93cc47463526c776


NT

"r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote in message 
news:432ca8fa$0$97099$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

> Rob Morley wrote:
>> In article ,
>> flygti@winning.com says...
>>> Hi Guys
>>> My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>>> tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>>> 1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not
>>> sure if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
>>>
>> There's a good place to start then.
>
> yep, i agree.  spend a decent amount on insulating the loft and have the 
> wall cavities filled too.  then start blocking the draughts, but not all 
> of them, you need some movement.  do you have open fires?  if you do and 
> you use them, it is likly that the hot air going up the chimeny is pulling 
> air from inside the house and will cause more more draughts to be felt.
>


I would add to this that if you have open fires, then fit them with dampers 
so
they can be almost throttled shut when not in use, this'll prevent warm air 
going
up the chimney.

Second, if you have suspended wooden floors, think about putting a vent ( or 
two )
right in front or on either side of the hearth, so that the fire can 
preferentially draw
air from these, as opposed to sucking in warm air from the house.

The air will be able to enter the underfloor cavity from outside via the 
airbricks.
Of course, the vents will need mesh ( wire ) on them to stop little beasties
crawling up, and strictly speaking I believe they should not be closeable,
though I personally would make them so to stop cold draughts when the fire
is not in use. Let's face it, it would be an extraordinary house that was so
airtight that a fire couldn't get enough air without special vents being 
fitted.

Andy.

As you seem to live in the country have you considered a solid fuel cum
multi-fuel stove. I was in a similar situation to you 22 years ago
after buying a modernised Granite cottage in Aberdeenshire. Electric
storage radiators that were totally useless and a sort of open fire
that went right through an end wall to produce a fire in two rooms.
This was also useless as 50% smoke went to one room, 50% smoke went
into the other room and 10% went up the chimney. Yes that's 110% that's
how bad the ***king conversion was.

Anyway I bought a big cast iron Bonte ESSE Mark 4 Room/Space heater
with a water jacket that gave out 12kWatts. In 1983 that cost me £850
so Gawd knows what the same would cost now.

I had no experience in CH systems but I could solder (Electronics Eng.)
and I knew the priciple of a 'U' tube and that hot water rose to the
top. I did the water header tank and the HW cylinder myself. That's
simple. A local Plumber was removing a Banana skin from the neighbours
drain so I chatted to him and he looked at what I'd done and said all
was OK. I then popped the question about him doing the actual CH side
of things. This was September, he said I can't do anything until after
Christmas. He then sat down a drew a system on paper for me saying run
two 22mm. pipes a far as you can and 'T' the radiators across them. I
did exactly that and 22 years later the system has never even sprung a
leak.

I do burn Anthracite at about £11 per 50kg bag during the winter months
and then any fallen Beech bows or whatever during the warmer months.

So basically learn how to solder/sweat a good joint. Learn the
principle of the 'U' tube and go for it yourself.  It took me three
months to do my system but what a difference it made.

Two years later my neighbour got the Pro's in to do thae same to his
cottage. That cost him £3,500 and......... AND two insurance claims for
damaged carpets.

IT JUST AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.

Chris.

Rob Morley  wrote:

> In article , 
> flygti@winning.com says...
>> Hi Guys
>> My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>> tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>> 1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
>> if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
>> 
> There's a good place to start then.
> 


But a poor choice of insulation material.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:52:43 +0100, Alan
 wrote:


>In message , 
>flygti@winning.com wrote
>>Hi Guys
>
>>My first post!! After extensive research on the web I am close to
>>tearing my hair out. I was hoping you could advise me. I live in a
>>1950's semi with double glazing - wooden floors, cavity wall (not sure
>>if insulated) and the loft space is not insulated.
>
>12 inches of loft insulation could save around 20 to 30% on heating 
>bills - or equivalent of adding 20 to 30% more heating. This is probably 
>the most cost effective first step.


There are grants available to help with the cost of this if you have
no insulation at all but the grant does seem to slow the whole process
down a lot. I applied for my grant in May and the insulation is
finally being installed next Monday. Judging by my experience, you
might find it cheaper to put in the insulation yourself and save on
this winter's heating bills

See http://www.heatproject.co.uk/ for more info

Anna



             ~~            Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England   
 |""""|    ~                   Lime plaster repairs
 / ^^ \ //    Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
 |____|                 www.kettlenet.co.uk   01359 230642

"John Rumm"  wrote in message
news:432cb431$0$97142$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

> flygti@winning.com wrote:
>
> > My first post!!
>
> Welcome to the madhouse ;-)


Yes, a cold welcome from one of the lunatic fringe indeed.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:46:17 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
 wrote:


>
>"John Rumm"  wrote in message
>news:432cb431$0$97142$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> flygti@winning.com wrote:
>>
>> > My first post!!
>>
>> Welcome to the madhouse ;-)
>
>Yes, a cold welcome from one of the lunatic fringe indeed.



Oh come on, you could at least have given a warm welcome - I realise
that the other aspect is more of a challenge.




-- 

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" <andyh@hall.nospam> wrote in message
news:42tsi1d1318dasasb2jurtk1nnujng58vv@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:46:17 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
>  wrote:
>
> >
> >"John Rumm"  wrote in message
> >news:432cb431$0$97142$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> >> flygti@winning.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > My first post!!
> >>
> >> Welcome to the madhouse ;-)
> >
> >Yes, a cold welcome from one of the lunatic fringe indeed.
>
> Oh come on, you could at least have given a warm welcome


I always do, your lunatic gang never do.  How is Phil Kyle?

Brilliant! Thanks guys for all your responses.
The feedback has been excellent.

I will certainly pursue the insulation option, then some carpets (if
only for the winter because we like the wooden floors) and then finally
the central heating (although still undecided on which route to follow
at this point)...

:-)