http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN

Nobody wrote:

> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 


To One it is, yes as its them who have implemented this new policy.

Staff on the ground level (the platform people) who are being attacked 
in that letter have no choice, this policy of no buses has been 
implemented across the network by those in charge. And there's nothing 
front-line staff can do so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but 
not allowed to care less.

In the end it comes down to saving .

Darren wrote:

> Nobody wrote:
> 
>> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 
> 
> 
> 
> To One it is, yes as its them who have implemented this new policy.
> 

But how about the industry as a whole - other operators in the UK? How 
about in other European countries?


> Staff on the ground level (the platform people) who are being attacked 
> in that letter have no choice, this policy of no buses has been 
> implemented across the network by those in charge. And there's nothing 
> front-line staff can do so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but 
> not allowed to care less.


Although you do get the feeling they could often do more. After 
sufficient pressure, they often do things that you were told 10 minutes 
before was "impossible" or "against company policy".

It will be interesting if a response from 'one' is ever received on this 
matter.


> In the end it comes down to saving .

Darren wrote:

> so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but
> not allowed to care less.


I was not present at the incident, so can only go from what is posted on 
the web site. But there is a *big* difference between staff caring, but 
stating they have their hands tied, and what the passenger describes as

"Both members of staff were totally unhelpful and had a could not care 
less attitude"

Some times it is obvious a member of staff tries their best. But one 
gets the feeling in this case they did not. But as I say, I was not 
present. But having witnessed some of the staff at the station, it does 
not surprise me.

Dave wrote:

> But how about the industry as a whole - other operators in the UK?


Well One didn't have this policy up until a few weeks ago. In fact it 
was denied by one of their managers at a meeting we had at the start of 
August that this policy was going into place, with it being branded as 
"rubbish"
This same manager then (after the policy was introduced) claimed that 
the person who originally asked must have been psychic, where as he 
wasn't (!)

FGE certainly didn't have anything this stupid in place. But then they 
were having to pay 750 Million to the DfT over 10 years to operate the 
service.


> Although you do get the feeling they could often do more. After 
> sufficient pressure, they often do things that you were told 10 minutes 
> before was "impossible" or "against company policy".


That certainly was the case when the old common sense policy was in 
place, but this new policy is down in writing of either no buses if the 
next train is in 60 mins or less. Or in some cases no buses unless the 
train service is suspended.


> It will be interesting if a response from 'one' is ever received on this 
> matter.


Standard Reply no doubt, if the letter gets forwarded onto the Customer 
Service team in Norwich that is.

Anyone care to explain what this is all about?  The original posting 
said nothing, beyond citing a URL, but when I try that URL, shazam:

   The requested URL /guest-book/guest-book.html was not found on this
   server.

   Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to
   use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

"Nobody"  wrote in message news:432c5b9d@212.67.96.135...

> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN
>


All I get is a "404, url not found error message". (21:30, 17 Sept.)

Bevan

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

>Anyone care to explain what this is all about?  The original posting 
>said nothing, beyond citing a URL, but when I try that URL, shazam:

>
>   The requested URL /guest-book/guest-book.html was not found on this
>   server.
>
>   Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to
>   use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


It was working earlier; I even get a 404 at
<http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/>

From memory it was someone complaining that their train had been
cancelled (no driver), and the TOC were refusing to provide
alternative transport. They were unhappy about waiting for the next
service an hour later as they had to pick a sprog up from school.


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Aimee Mann - Choice in the Matter (from the album 'I'm With Stupid')

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

> Anyone care to explain what this is all about?


Hourly train service. Train cancelled. One intending passenger for
cancelled train is parent en route to collect kids from junior school.
Parent demands taxi as train replacement. Station staff do not comply.
Off-duty rail staff member provides taxi out of own pocket.
Complaining letter sent to all and sundry.

Nub of issue appears to be whether it is reasonable or not that station
staff did not provide taxi to make up for 1-hour delay.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13857150.html
(43 030 at Exeter St Davids, 1985)

Chris Tolley wrote:

> Nub of issue appears to be whether it is reasonable or not that station
> staff did not provide taxi to make up for 1-hour delay.


Its the issue of their replacement bus policy that's causing a stir.
Where as FGE provided replacement road transport on branches in the 
event of delay/cancellation, One wont bother.

This has probably been the standard on other TOCs for a while, but 
passengers around here are only now being subjected to it. Like "Dave" I 
wasnt present at this incident, but I suspect the platform staff were 
picked out as being the bad guys even though they were following the new 
policy.

Nobody wrote:

> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 
> 
> 

Sorry, the web server seems to have hit a problem. I am not sure what is 
it, but it is working again now.

Neil Sunderland wrote:

> They were unhappy about waiting for the next
> service an hour later as they had to pick a sprog up from school.
> 
> 
> Neil Sunderland


I guess that sort of attitude is what would annoy parents. I guess you 
must work in the Railway industry.

"Darren"  wrote in message 
news:432c84b6$0$97132$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

> Chris Tolley wrote:
>> Nub of issue appears to be whether it is reasonable or not that station
>> staff did not provide taxi to make up for 1-hour delay.
>
> Its the issue of their replacement bus policy that's causing a stir.
> Where as FGE provided replacement road transport on branches in the event 
> of delay/cancellation, One wont bother.
>
> This has probably been the standard on other TOCs for a while,


It doesn't seem that new to me.

In thirty years of train travel I've never encountered the idea
that an 'on the day' cancellation of a reasonaby frequent service
is replaced by a bus.

You just have to wait for the next one.

tim

tim (moved to sweden) wrote:

> In thirty years of train travel I've never encountered the idea
> that an 'on the day' cancellation of a reasonaby frequent service
> is replaced by a bus.



We're not talking about frequent services - it never happened on the 
mainline, but branches were often given buses in times of trouble where 
an hourly service exists in the FGE days

>Neil Sunderland wrote:
>> They were unhappy about waiting for the next
>> service an hour later as they had to pick a sprog up from school.

Dave wrote:
>I guess that sort of attitude is what would annoy parents. 


What 'attitude'? I was merely summarising what I remembered from the
letter posted on the website. I offered no opinion on the validity of
their complaint.


>I guess you must work in the Railway industry.


Guess again.


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Belle and Sebastian - The State I Am In (from the album 'Push Barman To Open Old Wounds')

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:53:17 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
 wrote:


>In thirty years of train travel I've never encountered the idea
>that an 'on the day' cancellation of a reasonaby frequent service
>is replaced by a bus.


Hourly is not "reasonably frequent".  As a comparison, while I don't
know the situation now, it always was the case that a missed
connection into the Ormskirk-Preston service, or a cancellation of a
run on the branch, would result in an automatic taxi on demand.

That service runs approximately once every hour and 15 minutes, not a
whole lot less frequent.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:42:08 +0100, Dave wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> Darren wrote:
> > Nobody wrote:


[min. 60 minutes before bus replacement of canx trains] 

> >> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 
> > 
> > To One it is, yes as its them who have implemented this new policy.
> > 
> But how about the industry as a whole - other operators in the UK? How 
> about in other European countries?


On CT it's now 90 minutes 'gap' before road replacement will be
authorised, at least officially. It can depend on who's in control
that day, though.

In Europe? From my limited experience, it's "next train", but that's
on main lines with reasonably frequent trains (hourly or better); what
it's like on other routes I have no idea.



> > Staff on the ground level (the platform people) who are being attacked 
> > in that letter have no choice, this policy of no buses has been 
> > implemented across the network by those in charge. And there's nothing 
> > front-line staff can do so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but 
> > not allowed to care less.
> 
> Although you do get the feeling they could often do more. After 
> sufficient pressure, they often do things that you were told 10 minutes 
> before was "impossible" or "against company policy".


I've witnessed occasions where control have repeatedly refused to
authorise buses, and then phoned back fifteen minutes later to say
"Here's the authorisation number, can you arrange buses?"

Having told people that control won't arrange buses because company
policy says they can't, to than have control say "get buses" does make
you look rather stupid...

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:48:45 +0100, Dave wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> Darren wrote:

> > so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but
> > not allowed to care less.
> 
> I was not present at the incident, so can only go from what is posted on 
> the web site. But there is a *big* difference between staff caring, but 
> stating they have their hands tied, and what the passenger describes as
> 
> "Both members of staff were totally unhelpful and had a could not care 
> less attitude"
>
> Some times it is obvious a member of staff tries their best. But one 
> gets the feeling in this case they did not. But as I say, I was not 
> present. But having witnessed some of the staff at the station, it does 
> not surprise me.


I've seen too many complaints which bear little relation to the actual
events to believe what I read without investigation. I won't say that
people (staff or pax) lie in these matters, but from experience I
think it reasonable to claim that exaggeration for effect is a
component of far too many complaints.

Me cynic, of course.

Being that cynic, I note your last line which suggests you're not
exactly looking at this from an unbiased POV.

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:48:25 +0100, Dave wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> Neil Sunderland wrote:

> > They were unhappy about waiting for the next
> > service an hour later as they had to pick a sprog up from school.
> 
> I guess that sort of attitude is what would annoy parents. I guess you 
> must work in the Railway industry.


No, we don't usually call kids "sprogs" in the railway industry. We
either call them "kids" or something sarcastic like "little darlings".

The parents of those "little darlings" are often overheard calling
them nice things like "you little bastard", so I doubt they'd be too
concerned if they heard their kids being referred to as "sprogs".


I'm intrigued as to why you think that Neil's sentence suggests
employment in the railway industry.

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

"Alan J. Flavell"  wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0509172117220.24819@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk...

>
> Anyone care to explain what this is all about?  The original posting
> said nothing, beyond citing a URL, but when I try that URL, shazam:


For what it's worth, I never bother to click a link unless the poster has
summarised the content so as to give me a clue on whether it's of interest.

After all, one of the design-features of old-fashioned news-reading is that
you read and digest offline.

Walter Mann

Ross wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:48:45 +0100, Dave wrote in
> , seen in uk.railway:
> 
>>Darren wrote:
> 
> 
>>>so its not a case of "staff cant care less", but
>>>not allowed to care less.
>>
>>I was not present at the incident, so can only go from what is posted on 
>>the web site. But there is a *big* difference between staff caring, but 
>>stating they have their hands tied, and what the passenger describes as
>>
>>"Both members of staff were totally unhelpful and had a could not care 
>>less attitude"
>>
>>Some times it is obvious a member of staff tries their best. But one 
>>gets the feeling in this case they did not. But as I say, I was not 
>>present. But having witnessed some of the staff at the station, it does 
>>not surprise me.
> 
> 
> I've seen too many complaints which bear little relation to the actual
> events to believe what I read without investigation. I won't say that
> people (staff or pax) lie in these matters, but from experience I
> think it reasonable to claim that exaggeration for effect is a
> component of far too many complaints.


I was once at a situation at Shenfield where some railway employee was 
totally unhelpful and out of his depth. It is documented at

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#Shenfield0


The comments by a guy called Jim Webster

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#Shenfield1

are very funny (and true).

Someone posted a message on there anonymously about a week later

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#Shenfield2

who claimed to be at the incident and gave a very different view. That I 
know to be a pack of lies.

In the case of what happened at Wickford, and the subject of this post, 
I was not present.


> 
> Me cynic, of course.


Well, we can all be that some time.


> Being that cynic, I note your last line which suggests you're not
> exactly looking at this from an unbiased POV.


Well, I make the general point that if staff appear to be unhelpful, it 
will get people's backs up. And saying like "pick a sprog up from 
school" would get people's backs up.

Perhaps 'one' will respond to the complaint submitted, but I suspect it 
will receive a standard reply, with a voucher for a few pounds.

PS
Following the incident at Shenfield above, I received a letter from 
'one' saying they should have put on a bus or taxis and appolgised for 
not doing so.

Dr. David Kirkby
(webiste admin at http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/ )

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Walter Mann wrote:


> For what it's worth, I never bother to click a link unless the 
> poster has summarised the content so as to give me a clue on whether 
> it's of interest.


I'm distinctly inclined that way too, but, after seeing several 
followups discussing some unknown incident, I was intrigued, and tried 
to read the original URL after all.  It happened to be at a time when 
the server had been "visited by the 404 fairy" (as I saw it described 
recently, LOL), but it seems the problem has been resolved later.


> After all, one of the design-features of old-fashioned news-reading 
> is that you read and digest offline.


Well, yes; I started reading Usenet over a decade ago, and started out 
with the customs as they prevailed then, which IIRC sometimes included 
a 1200/75 modem - but things change.  Nowadays, I don't even *have* a 
way to read news that doesn't also include access to a web browser if 
I choose to use it, no matter whether I'm in the office, at home on 
ADSL, or out and about with dialup.

regards.

Walter Mann wrote:

> "Alan J. Flavell"  wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0509172117220.24819@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk...
> 
>>Anyone care to explain what this is all about?  The original posting
>>said nothing, beyond citing a URL, but when I try that URL, shazam:
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I never bother to click a link unless the poster has
> summarised the content so as to give me a clue on whether it's of interest.
> 


OK, I take your point, perhaps s short summary would not have hurt. The 
link is now incedently working. again.

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN


> After all, one of the design-features of old-fashioned news-reading is that
> you read and digest offline.


But things have changed a bit. A very high percentage of people in the 
UK now don't pay by the minute. Someone reading newsgroups is not likely 
to be the sort of person who makes so little use of internet usage that 
it is worth being billed by the minute.

It was just unfortunate the link died. I have never experienced that 
sort of technical problem with the website before. No pages could be 
found. You might expect the pages had been deleted, or the disk had a 
problem. But it is the same disk and file system as where the web 
server's software runs. A bit odd.

That web site is hosted on my own computer, using an ADSL link. I know 
how it is set up, but can't understand what went wrong.

Anyway, it is OK now.

Dave wrote:

>Well, I make the general point that if staff appear to be unhelpful, it 
>will get people's backs up. And saying like "pick a sprog up from 
>school" would get people's backs up.


If you made more effort to keep your website running, then my comment
would have been unnecessary.

If you had posted the content of the original complaint instead of
just posting a link, then my comment would have been unnecessary.

And if you had made your original post as 'Dave' instead of 'Nobody',
then you wouldn't now be in my killfile.


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Elvis Costello & The Attractions - Seconds Of Pleasure [demo] (from the album 'Imperial Bedroom')

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:17:11 +0100, Dave wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> Ross wrote:
> > On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:48:45 +0100, Dave wrote in
> > , seen in uk.railway:
> >>Darren wrote:
> > 
[...]
> > I've seen too many complaints which bear little relation to the actual
> > events to believe what I read without investigation. I won't say that
> > people (staff or pax) lie in these matters, but from experience I
> > think it reasonable to claim that exaggeration for effect is a
> > component of far too many complaints.
> 
> I was once at a situation at Shenfield where some railway employee was 
> totally unhelpful and out of his depth. It is documented at


Like I say, I believe nothing _without_ _investigation_. That
investigation can provide evidence in favour of either the staff or
the passenger - it doesn't automagically clear the staff regardless.


[...]

> > Being that cynic, I note your last line which suggests you're not
> > exactly looking at this from an unbiased POV.
> 
> Well, I make the general point that if staff appear to be unhelpful, it 
> will get people's backs up. And saying like "pick a sprog up from 
> school" would get people's backs up.


Correction: it got *your* back up. It also caused you to make an
unwarranted assumption about the poster of that comment.

I note too that you choose not to reply to my comments posted directly
in follow-up to the post in which you made that assumption, and that
rather than accepting you made a mistake, you are trying to justify
your assumption.

Somehow I get the feeling that assumption and attempt at justification
is the sort of behaviour you'd consider unreasonable on the part of
railway staff were you on the receiving end of it. It's just a pity
that you feel it acceptable to behave that way yourself.

But, being the cynic I am, I'm not surprised by it. I see it far too
often: "Do as I say, not as I do"...
-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

Dave wrote:

> Darren wrote:
> 
>> Nobody wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To One it is, yes as its them who have implemented this new policy.
>>
> But how about the industry as a whole - other operators in the UK? How 
> about in other European countries?


 From my experience in Wales from a couple of years ago, they seemed to 
bend over backwards to accomodate my journey. Was traveling from 
Carmarthen to Haverfordwest, but there was a bus to replace the train 
from St. Clears to Haverfordwest. The train was running quite late (20 
minutes or so), so the train manager/guard/conductor phoned and arranged 
a taxi for me. Turned out on arrival at St. Clears that the bus had 
waited anyway but the taxi hadn't arrived yet. I was the only one on the 
bus.

Perhaps they could just phone and arrange taxis for people on 
particualrly quiet lines? Might actually save some money!

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:22:30 +0100, Jonathan Stott 
wrote:


>Dave wrote:
>> Darren wrote:
>> 
>>> Nobody wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/guest-book/guest-book.html#CHILDREN 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To One it is, yes as its them who have implemented this new policy.
>>>
>> But how about the industry as a whole - other operators in the UK? How 
>> about in other European countries?
>
> From my experience in Wales from a couple of years ago, they seemed to 
>bend over backwards to accomodate my journey. Was traveling from 
>Carmarthen to Haverfordwest, but there was a bus to replace the train 
>from St. Clears to Haverfordwest.


They terminated the train at a level crossing? (I guess you mean
Whitland... or am I missing something? ;-)

On the subject of providing replacement transport for cancelled trains
and the West Wales service, it happened only yesterday, on the last
HST of the year to Pembroke Dock. Terminated at Carmarthen because of
'resourcing' difficulties... which reminds me of the recent thread
about giving clear, precise explanations: it makes reasonable sense to
me, but to the many passengers, wouldn't that be a bit vague and
meaningless? But they were able to provide buses from Carmarthen,
which were waiting when the train arrived, so someone somewhere was
communicating properly. Well almost - one of the buses ran non-stop to
Tenby, but someone going to Whitland ended up being directed onto it.

Good thing is was covered by buses - the next train was 2 hours later,
and was a 153. (ATW seems to have decided this year to put a 153 on
the West Wales portion of the Manchester/Penzance train - used to be a
158.)

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Dave
 gently breathed:


>Well, I make the general point that if staff appear to be unhelpful, it
>will get people's backs up. And saying like "pick a sprog up from
>school" would get people's backs up.


How come?  It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to say, what's wrong
with it?

-- 
 - DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds.  <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk>    <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:45:16 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:


>>Hourly is not "reasonably frequent".
>
>Outside the pampered southeast commuter lines, it's often all we get.


Oh, I know.  Regardless of that, an hour *additional* waiting time is
not in my mind reasonable.


>It is often the case that things happen "after an hour", like refunds 
>for late trains and so on. So if the passenger is kept waiting exactly 
>an hour, that's "OK".


Quite.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Pyromancer wrote:


> How come?  It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to say, what's wrong
> with it?


The use of the word "sprog" sound very dismissive, giving the
impression that the speaker/poster doesn't think much of the reason.

That may or may not be the case, but that is an impression that many
people will get from it.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Stevie D wrote:

>The use of the word "sprog" sound very dismissive, giving the
>impression that the speaker/poster doesn't think much of the reason.


The use of the word the word 'sprog' does not indicate what I thought
of the reason; if I didn't think much of the reason, I would have said
'...they claimed they had to pick up a sprog...'.

OTOH, if you think my use of the word 'sprog' gives an impression of
my general attitude towards juvenile homo sapiens, that's entirely up
to you :)

Oh, and a Google for 'juvenile homo sapiens' can lead you here:
<http://www.trygve.com/ueparity.html>


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Kate Bush - The Man With The Child In His Eyes (from the album 'The Kick Inside')

Neil Sunderland wrote:


> The use of the word the word 'sprog' does not indicate what I thought
> of the reason; if I didn't think much of the reason, I would have said
> '...they claimed they had to pick up a sprog...'.


What you intend to say, and the way it is perceived, can be a long way
apart. (I have found this out the hard way!). In general, using
colloquial or slang words like "sprog" with a complete stranger, who
is also a customer, and especially when in an already antagonistic
situation, is likely to be perceived in a negative way.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:18:38 +0100, Stevie D wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> Neil Sunderland wrote:
> 
> > The use of the word the word 'sprog' does not indicate what I thought
> > of the reason; if I didn't think much of the reason, I would have said
> > '...they claimed they had to pick up a sprog...'.
> 
> What you intend to say, and the way it is perceived, can be a long way
> apart. (I have found this out the hard way!). In general, using
> colloquial or slang words like "sprog" with a complete stranger, who
> is also a customer, and especially when in an already antagonistic
> situation, is likely to be perceived in a negative way.


Correct. But exactly where did anyone use the word "sprog" in relation
to their customer? Clue: nowhere. 

You're getting wound up over something irrelevant again, mate. What
say you try getting wound up about the lack of service by the TOC
instead?
-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Stevie D
 gently breathed:

>Pyromancer wrote:

>> How come?  It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to say, what's wrong
>> with it?

>The use of the word "sprog" sound very dismissive, giving the
>impression that the speaker/poster doesn't think much of the reason.


Must be a regional thing.  To me sprog = child = brat = kid = rugrat,
and none of them are really any more dismissive than each other.  I've
met more than a few mums who refer to their own kids as "the sprogs".

-- 
 - DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds.  <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk>    <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

In article ,
   Pyromancer  wrote:

> >The use of the word "sprog" sound very dismissive, giving the
> >impression that the speaker/poster doesn't think much of the reason.

> Must be a regional thing.  To me sprog = child = brat = kid = rugrat,
> and none of them are really any more dismissive than each other.  I've
> met more than a few mums who refer to their own kids as "the sprogs".


I certainly wouldn't think of "sprog" as being rude, but it's not a word I
would recommending someone to use to a stranger who might be a customer.
It's not so much dismissive as undue familiarity.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband

Stevie D wrote:

> In general, using colloquial or slang words like "sprog"
> with a complete stranger


But it *wasn't* a complete stranger. It was Alan Flavell...

I ought to point out that you appear to be displaying some double
standards here. I didn't see anybody jumping on Dr Kirkby when he
accused me of working in the railway industry. 

I've got feelings too, y'know :)


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: The Rolling Stones - Emotional Rescue (from the album 'Forty Licks')

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, Neil Sunderland wrote:


> Stevie D wrote:
> > In general, using colloquial or slang words like "sprog"
> > with a complete stranger
> 
> But it *wasn't* a complete stranger. It was Alan Flavell...


Yes, I must say I find this haranguing of Neil totally uncalled- for.  
It may be recalled that the original posting contained no information 
- only a URL - and, by the time that I'd seen several discussions 
based on this unknown incident, and decided to read about it for 
myself, I found that (as the saying goes) the "web server had been 
visited by the 404 fairy".

Neil was only responding to my request for a brief precis of what it 
was about, and I found the precis entirely adequate and suitable for 
its purpose.

Then a whole rabble starts attacking it as if it had been the TOC's 
official answer, or something.  Not just unfair, but utterly out of 
context.  For shame.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:54:29 +0100, Pyromancer 


>Must be a regional thing. 


Quite possibly.  While I don't really use the word myself, I don't
find it any more offensive than the word "kid", which doesn't bother
me either.

I am aware, though, that many people *do* find the latter offensive.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Sunderland wrote:

>>Neil Sunderland wrote:
>>
>>>They were unhappy about waiting for the next
>>>service an hour later as they had to pick a sprog up from school.
> 
> 
> Dave wrote:
> 
>>I guess that sort of attitude is what would annoy parents. 
> 
> 
> What 'attitude'? I was merely summarising what I remembered from the
> letter posted on the website. I offered no opinion on the validity of
> their complaint.


You know what I mean there - the use of the word 'sprog'. Children would 
have been far more appropriate (there were two, but I realise you were 
recalling from memory, so I am not going to argue about the 
singular/plural thing). But 'sprog' seems pretty inappropriate.


> 
>>I guess you must work in the Railway industry.
> 
> 
> Guess again.


I appologise.

Neil Sunderland wrote:

> Dave wrote:
> 
>>Well, I make the general point that if staff appear to be unhelpful, it 
>>will get people's backs up. And saying like "pick a sprog up from 
>>school" would get people's backs up.
> 
> 
> If you made more effort to keep your website running, then my comment
> would have been unnecessary.


That was unfortunate, but any site that has been running a few years (as 
that has) will experience some technical problems at some point. I 
really do not know what happened in this case. I simply have no idea.

I posted the link at 1908. I'd realised there was a problem, corrected 
it and posted a comment saying it was running at 2304. So that means it 
was down < 4 hours. Not too unreasonable on a non-commercial site, which 
is entirely funded by me (there is no advertisements of any sort on the 
site).

The site did experience a failure a day or so earlier when the 6 kW UPS 
blew up, tripping the 32A breaker as it did. That means now I have no 
UPS, so failures are likely to be more common now, until I can sort out 
another UPS. Perhaps a small glitch in the mains supply caused the web 
server to mis-behave, where normally it would have been protected by the 
UPS.


> If you had posted the content of the original complaint instead of
> just posting a link, then my comment would have been unnecessary.


I take your point.


> And if you had made your original post as 'Dave' instead of 'Nobody',
> then you wouldn't now be in my killfile.


Well, whether I call myself 'Dave' or 'Nobody' does not make a lot of 
difference. It's pretty obvious this email address is invalid. It if was 
not for the spammers, I would be quite happy to put my true email 
address. It can be found on that site, but it's encoded such a way as to 
make it hard for robots to grab my email address.

Anyway, if you prefer Dave, and read this (not filtered by your kill 
file) you have an explanation.


> Neil Sunderland

Dave wrote:


> Well, whether I call myself 'Dave' or 'Nobody' does not make a lot of 
> difference.


Why, is your real name Petunia, then?

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036443.html
(Original "Great Western" nameplate on 47 500, 1979)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:08:45 +0100, David H Wild wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> In article ,
>    Pyromancer  wrote:
> > >The use of the word "sprog" sound very dismissive, giving the
> > >impression that the speaker/poster doesn't think much of the reason.
> 
> > Must be a regional thing.  To me sprog = child = brat = kid = rugrat,
> > and none of them are really any more dismissive than each other.  I've
> > met more than a few mums who refer to their own kids as "the sprogs".
> 
> I certainly wouldn't think of "sprog" as being rude, but it's not a word I
> would recommending someone to use to a stranger who might be a customer.
> It's not so much dismissive as undue familiarity.


But it wasn't used "to a stranger", never mind one "who might be a
customer", was it?

To paraphrase Alan, to whom the comment was addressed, this entire
thread is getting to be pretty pathetic.
-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots