I'm fed up with trying to remove scale off sinks, etc. I'm getting
through Cillit Bang like there's no tomorrow!

I don't want to go to the expense of having a water softener installed,
and wondered if a water condition would do the trick?

i've seen solutions at www.scalewizard.co.uk, www.scalewatcher.co.uk,
and www.limescaleaway.co.uk, that look very similar, but differ a lot
in price.

Does anyone have any experience on using these types of products? how
effective are they.

thanks

Russ

RussH wrote:

> I'm fed up with trying to remove scale off sinks, etc. I'm getting
> through Cillit Bang like there's no tomorrow!


We all feel a bit fed up from time to time - but drinking household 
cleaning products never helped anyone.  Get a grip man!

RussH wrote:


> I don't want to go to the expense of having a water softener installed,
> and wondered if a water condition would do the trick?


What value do you put on your time and/or expensive cleaners?

-- 
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
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http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

> i've seen solutions at www.scalewizard.co.uk, www.scalewatcher.co.uk,
> and www.limescaleaway.co.uk, that look very similar, but differ a lot
> in price.


They don't differ much in effectiveness, though. They range from utterly
useless to comically ineffective.

If you don't want a water softener, consider a chemical dosing system, such
as a Combimate. You'd need to install a undosed drinking tap at the sink,
though. This will reduce scale, although it doesn't actually soften the
water, like the real thing.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

> > i've seen solutions at www.scalewizard.co.uk, www.scalewatcher.co.uk,
> > and www.limescaleaway.co.uk, that look very similar, but differ a lot
> > in price.
>
> They don't differ much in effectiveness, though. They range from utterly
> useless to comically ineffective.



I didnt follow the links, but can confrim the electromagnetic ones are
a waste of time.

NT

PS hydrochloric acid is much cheaper than silly bang. Dilute to use,
keep off skin. A copper scourer is the best thing to remove scale from
chromework, and a plastic scraper can make short work of scale lumps on
hard surfaces eg sinks.


NT

Christian McArdle wrote:


> They don't differ much in effectiveness, though. They range from utterly
> useless to comically ineffective.


There will probably be a clown along shortly to champion them as well 
just in case you needed further convincing ;-)


> If you don't want a water softener, consider a chemical dosing system, such
> as a Combimate. You'd need to install a undosed drinking tap at the sink,


You can supposedly drink the dosed water:

http://www.cistermiser.co.uk/pdf/q.csr.pdf


> though. This will reduce scale, although it doesn't actually soften the
> water, like the real thing.


It will reduce the scale in heating appliances by preventing the calcium 
carbonate from precipitating out of the water - so good for boilers etc. 
However since it does not remove the "hardness" from the water, the 
scale will still be left anywhere water is allowed to evaporate and dry. 
The result is you will see less effect on sinks and baths that you would 
with an actual softener.



-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

Christian McArdle wrote:


> If you don't want a water softener, consider a chemical dosing system, such
> as a Combimate. You'd need to install a undosed drinking tap at the sink,
> though. This will reduce scale, although it doesn't actually soften the
> water, like the real thing.


On a side note,
what's the opinions of filling CH system with "real" softned water?

-- 
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

> what's the opinions of filling CH system with "real" softned water?


IMO, it makes no difference. If anything, hard water might be better.

Unless there's a leak, there's no chance of any significant quantity of lime
to enter the system.

Christian.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:12:49 -0700, bigcat wrote:


> Christian McArdle wrote:
>> > i've seen solutions at www.scalewizard.co.uk, www.scalewatcher.co.uk,
>> > and www.limescaleaway.co.uk, that look very similar, but differ a lot
>> > in price.
>>
>> They don't differ much in effectiveness, though. They range from utterly
>> useless to comically ineffective.
> 
> 
> I didnt follow the links, but can confrim the electromagnetic ones are
> a waste of time.
> 
> NT
> 
> PS hydrochloric acid is much cheaper than silly bang. Dilute to use,
> keep off skin. A copper scourer is the best thing to remove scale from
> chromework, and a plastic scraper can make short work of scale lumps on
> hard surfaces eg sinks.
> 

And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from Screwfix.



-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

||| PS hydrochloric acid is much cheaper than silly bang. Dilute to use,
||| keep off skin. A copper scourer is the best thing to remove scale
||| from chromework, and a plastic scraper can make short work of scale
||| lumps on hard surfaces eg sinks.
|||
|| And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from
|| Screwfix.

Hydrochloric acid will also remove chrome from taps, badly stain stainless 
steel and discolour most enamels - apart from that it's fine - unless it 
gets mixed with bleach.  Stick with the Cillit Bang!

Dave

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:08:49 +0100, Ed Sirett
 wrote:


>And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from Screwfix.


Is it pure HCl or is it thickened in some way?

Do you know where to buy household ammonia? Boots used to sell it but
I can't get it these days.

TIA

Mr F.

Christian McArdle wrote:


> IMO, it makes no difference. If anything, hard water might be better.
> 
> Unless there's a leak, there's no chance of any significant quantity of lime
> to enter the system.


Thanks Christian.

Pete

"david lang"  wrote in message 
news:2kEVe.61264$2n6.1430@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...


>
> Hydrochloric acid will also remove chrome from taps, badly stain stainless 
> steel


Yes - that's what I've found:-(

Mary

david lang wrote:


> Hydrochloric acid will also remove chrome from taps, badly stain stainless 
> steel and discolour most enamels - apart from that it's fine - unless it 
> gets mixed with bleach.  Stick with the Cillit Bang!


Fernox DS3 would be a better and much cheaper choice. Comes powerdered 
in large tubs - enough to make hundreds of litres for descaling complete 
heating systems - and only costs ten to fifteen quid a tub.

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

In message , Mr Fizzion 
<wankel@rotary.engine> writes

>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:08:49 +0100, Ed Sirett
> wrote:
>
>>And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from Screwfix.
>
>Is it pure HCl or is it thickened in some way?
>
>Do you know where to buy household ammonia? Boots used to sell it but
>I can't get it these days.
>

Just don't buy it at the same time as you buy the iodine

-- 
geoff

raden wrote:


> Just don't buy it at the same time as you buy the iodine


Now a news flash:

A loud "snap" was heard in London today, and man wearing a back pack 
disappeared in a cloud of purple smoke! Several passers by we said to be 
quite seriously stained.


(or perhaps it has more power when made in quantity?)

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:25:11 GMT, raden  wrote:


>In message , Mr Fizzion 
><wankel@rotary.engine> writes
>>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:08:49 +0100, Ed Sirett
>> wrote:
>>
>>>And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from Screwfix.
>>
>>Is it pure HCl or is it thickened in some way?
>>
>>Do you know where to buy household ammonia? Boots used to sell it but
>>I can't get it these days.
>>
>Just don't buy it at the same time as you buy the iodine


LOL - that's the next request. Tincture of iodine will not do.

Mr F.

In message <43275a63$0$22907$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>, John 
Rumm  writes

>raden wrote:
>
>> Just don't buy it at the same time as you buy the iodine
>
>Now a news flash:
>
>A loud "snap" was heard in London today, and man wearing a back pack 
>disappeared in a cloud of purple smoke! Several passers by we said to 
>be quite seriously stained.
>

And holding my hand on my heart, I can say "I've been there" ... holding 
the neck of the jam jar and nothing else

-- 
geoff

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:05:40 +0100, Mr Fizzion wrote:


> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:08:49 +0100, Ed Sirett
>  wrote:
> 
>>And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from Screwfix.
> 
> Is it pure HCl or is it thickened in some way?
> 

It's fairly dilute and probably has a little detergent in it and may be
some fungicide. 

-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:50:54 +0000, david lang wrote:


> Ed Sirett wrote:
> 
> ||| PS hydrochloric acid is much cheaper than silly bang. Dilute to use,
> ||| keep off skin. A copper scourer is the best thing to remove scale
> ||| from chromework, and a plastic scraper can make short work of scale
> ||| lumps on hard surfaces eg sinks.
> |||
> || And you readily buy the HCl in the form of Patio Cleaner from
> || Screwfix.
> 
> Hydrochloric acid will also remove chrome from taps, badly stain stainless 
> steel and discolour most enamels - apart from that it's fine - unless it 
> gets mixed with bleach.  Stick with the Cillit Bang!
> 

Brickwork cleaner is stonger and may do that but I have found that'patio
cleaner' is sufficiently dilute to use it safely. IME. YMMV.


-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:45:51 +0000, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;) wrote:


> Christian McArdle wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want a water softener, consider a chemical dosing system, such
>> as a Combimate. You'd need to install a undosed drinking tap at the sink,
>> though. This will reduce scale, although it doesn't actually soften the
>> water, like the real thing.
> 
> On a side note,
> what's the opinions of filling CH system with "real" softned water?


Firstly, there the practical aspect that typically a boiler is in the
kitchen and the likelihood is that the potable cold mains is to hand and
not the softened water. 

Secondly, the boiler manufacturers may wish to excuse themselves from the
guarantee, any excuse will do.

Thirdly, scale of the primary circuit is not a significant problem except
of very old open vented system. 

Otherwise fine, if the header tank is the soften supply to the loft then
that's what it will be filled with. 

-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:

>
> what's the opinions of filling CH system with "real" softned water?


It is not recommended. The inhibitors are blended for use with mains
water & softened water is more corrosive. I do not have the chemical
knowledge to provide details. DI water is used, mixed with inhibitors
on large sites, recommended in the PSA guides for very large
installations.