Is there much "science" in the allocation of Voyagers to services (or
journeys) to try to ensure that the extra capacity of 5-car sets is
used to advantage and that 4-car sets are not consistently being
fielded on notoriously regularly overcrowded journeys?
Also how many spare units are normally available and where are they
located? At Edinburgh there seems to be fairly regular recourse to
forming services utilising units timed into Edinburgh later than the
scheduled departure of the (consequentially delayed) outbound service.
This causes annoyance on several fronts. Passengers who have turned up
early in the hope of easily finding a seat have a protracted wait at
the station to no purpose. There can be all sorts of conflicts of
interest involving passengers alighting from the incoming train whilst
others attempt to board simultaneously with as a side dish Virgin staff
trying to "prepare" the train presumably under huge pressure to get it
away as quickly as possible. I appreciate that (unlike, say, the French
who seem to have spare TGVs coming out their ears) expensive assets
have to be sweated in the privatised regime of this country. I just
feel that squeezing everything until the pips squeak must reach a point
where it becomes self-defeating in terms of encouraging people to leave
their cars in the garage. What do others think?
--
gordon

wrote in message 
news:1126741573.687442.216470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Is there much "science" in the allocation of Voyagers to services (or
> journeys) to try to ensure that the extra capacity of 5-car sets is
> used to advantage and that 4-car sets are not consistently being
> fielded on notoriously regularly overcrowded journeys?
> Also how many spare units are normally available and where are they
> located? At Edinburgh there seems to be fairly regular recourse to
> forming services utilising units timed into Edinburgh later than the
> scheduled departure of the (consequentially delayed) outbound service.
> This causes annoyance on several fronts. Passengers who have turned up
> early in the hope of easily finding a seat have a protracted wait at
> the station to no purpose. There can be all sorts of conflicts of
> interest involving passengers alighting from the incoming train whilst
> others attempt to board simultaneously with as a side dish Virgin staff
> trying to "prepare" the train presumably under huge pressure to get it
> away as quickly as possible. I appreciate that (unlike, say, the French
> who seem to have spare TGVs coming out their ears) expensive assets
> have to be sweated in the privatised regime of this country. I just
> feel that squeezing everything until the pips squeak must reach a point
> where it becomes self-defeating in terms of encouraging people to leave
> their cars in the garage. What do others think?
> --
> gordon
>

Meanwhile down in sunny Bournemouth the trains always seem to have a relaxed 
half hour turn around timetabled. Sometimes on the platform, sometimes in 
the stabling sidings immediately west of the station.

I have asked on here before though, (without an informed reply), if the 220s 
and 221s are dedicated to particular services, particularly on the tilt 
enabled Cherwell Valley section, where tilt allows a whole 5 minutes to be 
shaved off the Banbury to Oxford time!

Paul

tshanazt@aol.com wrote:

> Passengers who have turned up early in the hope of easily finding a
> seat have a protracted wait.

Indeed. On a recent southbound Voyager from Glasgow, I was an early
passenger, because I didn't have a reserved seat. Getting on the train,
it became obvious that the reservation displays weren't working, and
there had been no alternative arrangements made. So I just picked a seat
and waited, as the coach filled up. All around me, other people without
reservations were being turfed out of their seats by those who had them,
and right up to the last moment, I expected the same. Somehow it didn't
happen, fortunately, but the train was packed pretty much to capacity as
we left, and so conceivably I, having been the first to board the train
could have been evicted by a reservation holder choosing to board as the
doors were closing, with the consequence of not getting a seat at all.

In contrast, on the Pendo south from Carlisle, the displays were
working, and one could see many reserved seats were not occupied. Oh
well, it all adds to life's rich tapestry.

In message <dgadc2$3jm$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at 
23:56:50 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Paul Scott 
 remarked:

>Meanwhile down in sunny Bournemouth the trains always seem to have a relaxed
>half hour turn around timetabled. Sometimes on the platform, sometimes in
>the stabling sidings immediately west of the station.


MML's HSTs have a whole 54 minutes at Nottingham, where they stand in 
the platform ticking over and emitting lots of luverly blue smoke :-(

Unfortunately they are locked until about five minutes before departure, 
so once again all those people who arrive early are frustrated (as well 
as getting deafened and pickled).

I'm surprised the door handles haven't dropped off yet, the number of 
people who go up and waggle and pull, in a vain attempt to get on.

-- 
Roland Perry

Chris Tolley wrote:

>
> In contrast, on the Pendo south from Carlisle, the displays were
> working, and one could see many reserved seats were not occupied.


No shows. The PITA for airline operators too.

In message , at 
02:53:06 on Thu, 15 Sep 2005, m1ss_wh1te  
remarked:

>> In contrast, on the Pendo south from Carlisle, the displays were
>> working, and one could see many reserved seats were not occupied.
>
>No shows. The PITA for airline operators too.


No. When you reserve a ticket online it insists on you specifying a 
particular train, and getting a seat reservation, even when it's an open 
ticket, and you have no idea which you'll be catching.

So, many of the empty seats are simply an artefact of the booking 
process.
-- 
Roland Perry

m1ss_wh1te wrote:

> Chris Tolley wrote:
>> In contrast, on the Pendo south from Carlisle, the displays were
>> working, and one could see many reserved seats were not occupied.
> No shows. 

Possibly, but not necessarily. I was in a reserved seat on that train
because I was using an advance purchase ticket. But that was in coach A.
I expect at least some of the empty reserved seats belonged to people
who had boarded and then couldn't be bothered to walk to the end of the
train, and just sat down in another available seat.


>The PITA for airline operators too.

On a train, the people who really lose out are those sans reservation
whose conscience leads them not to park themselves in such a seat.
-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683851.html
(159 006 at Basingstoke, 26 Jan 1999)

Roland Perry wrote:


> When you reserve a ticket online it insists on you specifying a 
> particular train, and getting a seat reservation, even when it's an open 
> ticket, and you have no idea which you'll be catching.
> 
> So, many of the empty seats are simply an artefact of the booking 
> process.


Didn't realise that also applied to Open tickets. Making reservations
optional would be cleverer in that circumstance.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13309740.html
(43 139 at London Paddington, 29 Nov 1980)

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:aDtduKXTtRKDFAkG@donald.internetpolicynews.co.uk...

> In message <dgadc2$3jm$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at 
> 23:56:50 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Paul Scott  
> remarked:
>>Meanwhile down in sunny Bournemouth the trains always seem to have a 
>>relaxed
>>half hour turn around timetabled. Sometimes on the platform, sometimes in
>>the stabling sidings immediately west of the station.
>
> MML's HSTs have a whole 54 minutes at Nottingham, where they stand in the 
> platform ticking over and emitting lots of luverly blue smoke :-(
>
> Unfortunately they are locked until about five minutes before departure, 
> so once again all those people who arrive early are frustrated (as well as 
> getting deafened and pickled).
>
> I'm surprised the door handles haven't dropped off yet, the number of 
> people who go up and waggle and pull, in a vain attempt to get on.


A similar situation a Birmingham New St. I arrived at around 05:00 from 
Chester (Ex Holyhead Cl. 221). I then stood at the platform for 55 min's 
waiting to get back on, as it became the 06:05 for Bournmouth.

KW

In message <1l50zq0xt2xce$.jupobek0w74v$.dlg@40tude.net>, at 11:02:36 on 
Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Chris Tolley  remarked:

>> So, many of the empty seats are simply an artefact of the booking
>> process.
>
>Didn't realise that also applied to Open tickets. Making reservations
>optional would be cleverer in that circumstance.


Sadly "railway ticketing" and "clever" rarely go together. I even got 
issued with seat reservations for a travelcard the other day!
-- 
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:59:43 on 
Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Chris Tolley  remarked:

>On a train, the people who really lose out are those sans reservation
>whose conscience leads them not to park themselves in such a seat.


Doesn't seem to worry MML's passengers much. I rarely sit in my reserved 
seat (unless there's a real shortage) when I have one on the train I'm 
using, as it almost always has someone else in it already! I turfed 
someone out at St Pancras last month in a pretty crushed carriage and he 
was quite upset.
-- 
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:Pe4I5LyGoVKDFAHW@donald.internetpolicynews.co.uk...

> In message <1l50zq0xt2xce$.jupobek0w74v$.dlg@40tude.net>, at 11:02:36 on 
> Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Chris Tolley  remarked:
>>> So, many of the empty seats are simply an artefact of the booking
>>> process.
>>
>>Didn't realise that also applied to Open tickets. Making reservations
>>optional would be cleverer in that circumstance.
>
> Sadly "railway ticketing" and "clever" rarely go together. I even got 
> issued with seat reservations for a travelcard the other day!


Funniest reservation I ever had was on the Arriva Settle & Carlisle 37 
farewell run in September 2004 - knowing it would be packed, I reserved a 
seat from Carlisle-York after getting an S&C Round Robin ticket, and I was 
given a reservation in coach A (seat 16 IIRC)... The train pulled into 
Carlisle, and I hit a problem - the five coaches weren't labelled! To make 
matters worse, much of the train was reserved, and a walk-through revealed 
seat 16 in every coach was reserved - from Carlisle all the way to York, 
along with most of the train!

Made me wonder why I bothered....

-- 
*** http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/ ***
Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin-co-uk)
MSN: richmackin-at-hotmail-dot-com

On 15 Sep 2005 02:53:06 -0700, "m1ss_wh1te" 
wrote:


>No shows. The PITA for airline operators too.


ITYM the PITA for airline *passengers*, as the airlines double-book
seats assuming this.  This is a disgraceful practice.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:59:43 GMT, Chris Tolley 
wrote:


>Possibly, but not necessarily. I was in a reserved seat on that train
>because I was using an advance purchase ticket. But that was in coach A.
>I expect at least some of the empty reserved seats belonged to people
>who had boarded and then couldn't be bothered to walk to the end of the
>train, and just sat down in another available seat.


Or didn't like the reserved seat.  In the days of paper labels, when I
did this I'd remove the label (yes, I know it's illegal, but nobody
would ever care).  You can't with displays...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

> Bear in mind that I don't *know* how these things work, but watching the
> reserved displays on a pendo, I have seen that they do update just
> before a train arrives at a stop. (E.g. if a seat is reserved from
> Preston, then the display changes to "Reserved" just before the train
> arrives.) If this is in the control of the train crew, then the displays
> could be changed on an inbound service after it has made its final call.
> if they are interlocked with the coach-end displays, then it would be
> simple enough to re-program the system to test for the end of a run.


The screen displays on a Voyager read either:-
'This seat is not reserved' or 'Reserved between w and x, y and z' etc.
It is therefore not dependant on where the train is located at any
given time. The new trip is put in by the TM at the start of the
journey via the VTxxxx number which downloads the reservations and sets
up the internal / external coach displays.
This is usually done by the previous TM on approach to their
terminating station (if they know what service the unit is forming
next, due to step ups etc). If it is the first service if the day, the
reservations / displays will not be displayed until the TM joins the
train.
The reservations are not re-downloaded en route unless the TMS crashes.
Train preparation consists of more than reservations, there is the
obvious cleaning of the set and also safety, catering requirements.

Andrew

Collecting British Locomotive Railwayana
http://www.d444.freeserve.co.uk

Chris Tolley wrote:

> Didn't realise that also applied to Open tickets. Making reservations
> optional would be cleverer in that circumstance.



Another smart thing would be to allow you to arrange a seat reservation 
online later.

I often travel to london, and don't even know what day I'm coming back 
on.  If every ticket had a unique number printed on, and you could just 
go on online, enter your ticket number and reserve a seat, it would be 
great.


Instead I'm consigned to arriving really early for a train, or hanging 
around in the reserved seat carriages to see who doesn't show.

Tim