News coming through that a Voyager has been damaged by striking object(s) 
deliberately placed on line at Goldthorpe (S Yorks). When I returned from 
Leeds to Wakefield this afternoon at around 4pm they were already diverting 
Leeds-Sheffield services after Wakefield Westgate.
Anyone know more details?

Adrian Clarkson wrote:

> News coming through that a Voyager has been damaged by striking object(s)
> deliberately placed on line at Goldthorpe (S Yorks). When I returned from
> Leeds to Wakefield this afternoon at around 4pm they were already diverting
> Leeds-Sheffield services after Wakefield Westgate.
> Anyone know more details?


According to NRES: "Virgin Trains services will be diverted via
Barnsley or Doncaster", due to broken down train between Rotherham
Central and Wakefield Westgate

More info here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4244164.stm

Gee-Bee  wrote:


> More info here
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4244164.stm


Surely there's a better term than 'vandalism' for this kind of thing?
I'm not being facetious- it just seems to me there ought to be a
reflection in the serious difference between actions which cause damage
to property and actions where the damage could lead to more serious
consequences. Would someone who dropped a brick from a bridge onto a
moving train be called a vandal? 

Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
of ignition in a situation like this?

-- 
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:40:04 +0100 someone who may be
this_address_is_for_spam@yahoo.com (chancellor of the duchy of
besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote this:-


>Would someone who dropped a brick from a bridge onto a
>moving train be called a vandal? 


They usually are.


>Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
>of ignition in a situation like this?


Fuel from ruptured fuel tanks has been ignighted. Sparks from the
obstruction (or in at least one case the fuel tank that had fallen
off and was scraping along the rails) tend to be the cause of
ignition.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 14 Sep 2005 00:38:08 -0700, "Gee-Bee" 
wrote:


>More info here
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4244164.stm


Once again, passengers are imprisoned on the train, this time for 4
hours. Was this really necessary? Is it even legal?

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h 
offy wrote:

> Gee-Bee  wrote:
> 
> 
>>More info here
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4244164.stm
> 
> 
> Surely there's a better term than 'vandalism' for this kind of thing?
> I'm not being facetious- it just seems to me there ought to be a
> reflection in the serious difference between actions which cause damage
> to property and actions where the damage could lead to more serious
> consequences.


Trespass?
Criminal Damage?
Endangering the lives of Railway passengers?
Attempted Manslaughter?


> 
> Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
> of ignition in a situation like this?
> 


Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike petrol 
diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit match into a 
bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.

Philip.

In message 
          Philip Hardy  wrote:


> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h 
> offy wrote:
[snip]
> Attempted Manslaughter?


Don't think you cab have Attempted Manslaughter, that would be Attempted
Murder by definition


> 
> > 
> > Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
> > of ignition in a situation like this?
> > 
> 
> Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike petrol 
> diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit match into a 
> bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.
> 


Think Ladbroke Grove

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:57:29 +0100, Philip Hardy
 wrote:
<snip>


>Attempted Manslaughter?
>


No, can't find that one listed anywhere. ;-)

<snip>
-- 
                                                             _______
 +---------------------------------------------------+      |\\   //|
 | Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk        |      | \\ // |
 +---------------------------------------------------+      |  > <  |
                                                            | // \\ |
                                              Alba gu brath |//___\\|

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Philip Hardy wrote:


> > Surely there's a better term than 'vandalism' for this kind of thing?
> 
> Trespass?


Hardly sounds life-threatening


> Criminal Damage?


getting warm


> Endangering the lives of Railway passengers?


literally true


> Attempted Manslaughter?


No such offence.  It'd be attempted murder, but (IANAL) that needs 
objective proof that the accused understood clearly that death, of 
some unspecified person(s), would be a likely consequence of their 
actions (what used to be known as "general malice").

AIUI there have been rather few successful prosecutions for attempted 
murder where there's been no evidence that the accused intended to 
kill *a particular person*.  Illogical, but that seems to be the way 
it is.  The prosecution tend to go for some lesser offence that they 
consider has more chance of success.


> Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike 
> petrol diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit 
> match into a bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.


I know.  I've seen cigarettes stubbed out harmlessly in baths of 
paraffin: but I also saw the same kind of paraffin bath that had 
caught fire, and it wasn't a pretty sight.

I suspect that you failed to take the different circumstances of 
a crash situation into account.   A particularly unpleasant rail crash 
comes to mind.

>> Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
>> of ignition in a situation like this?
>>
>
> Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike petrol
> diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit match into a
> bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.


There have been a few fires, in various countries, caused by ruptured diesel
fuel tanks, with subsequent loss of life.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:48:11 +0100, "Alan J. Flavell"
 wrote:


>I suspect that you failed to take the different circumstances of 
>a crash situation into account.   A particularly unpleasant rail crash 
>comes to mind.


Indeed.  If you "prime" the diesel by heating it up (such as on a hot
engine), or spray it in a fine mist, it (or its vapour) will burn
quite nicely (though not as explosively as petrol will).  Both of
these are likely to occur in a rail accident, while a cold bucket of
straight liquid diesel is not.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:52:24 -0700, "Roger T."
 wrote:


>>> Given the rupturing of the fuel tanks, could there have been any danger
>>> of ignition in a situation like this?
>>>
>>
>> Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike petrol
>> diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit match into a
>> bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.
>
>There have been a few fires, in various countries, caused by ruptured diesel
>fuel tanks, with subsequent loss of life.


Probably assisted by the presence of two or more of fuel spray, flame
or very hot metalwork.
-- 
                                                             _______
 +---------------------------------------------------+      |\\   //|
 | Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk        |      | \\ // |
 +---------------------------------------------------+      |  > <  |
                                                            | // \\ |
                                              Alba gu brath |//___\\|

Roger T. wrote:


>>Not impossible, but, being diesel, relatively unlikely. Unlike petrol
>>diesel is not explosive at ambient temperatures: Drop a lit match into a
>>bucket of diesel and it'd probably put the match out.
> 
> 
> There have been a few fires, in various countries, caused by ruptured diesel
> fuel tanks, with subsequent loss of life.
> 


Oh I'm quite aware of that. And that Ladbrooke Grove was one of them. 
This is way is carefully included the word "relatively".

Philip.

This was featured on our local BBC news last night, with the headline
"Transport Police to get tough with railway vandals".

Unfortunately the BTP Inspector interviewed did not make a very good
case and seemed to be treating the incident as kids messing about. What
a waste of time. He had an ideal opportunity to put his case and he
blew it!

> Once again, passengers are imprisoned on the train, this time for 4
> hours. Was this really necessary? Is it even legal?


Since there was no fire the passengers were safe.

More than the vandals would be I could get my hands on them!