Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others, 
is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your 
households sewerage?

cheers

steve

"r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote in message 
news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others, 
> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your 
> households sewerage?
>
> cheers
>
> steve
>


This is illegal; once your sewage has entered the fall pipe it is deemed to 
be the property of your local water authority. They have the legal right to 
your waste, and therefore you are not allowed to do anything with it at all.

HTH

"Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:R_vVe.107770$G8.91136@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote in message 
> news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and 
>> others, is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from 
>> your households sewerage?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> steve
>>
>
> This is illegal; once your sewage has entered the fall pipe it is deemed 
> to be the property of your local water authority. They have the legal 
> right to your waste, and therefore you are not allowed to do anything with 
> it at all.
>
> HTH
>


ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating and 
for use in my car?

steve

r.p.mcmurphy wrote:

> "Tim Morley" wrote
>>"r.p.mcmurphy" wrote...
>>>Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and 
>>>others, is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from 
>>>your households sewerage?
>>
>>This is illegal; once your sewage has entered the fall pipe it is deemed 
>>to be the property of your local water authority. They have the legal 
>>right to your waste, and therefore you are not allowed to do anything with 
>>it at all.


Intercept it before it gets there, then! Not likely to get much
output, though. If you want to harness gas, you could start with
Dr. Drivel and Mary Fisher.



> ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating and 
> for use in my car?


That's fine, but you'd need to be a Good Boy and Tell Customs And
Excise So that They could Levvy The Tax (innocence: Yes, I only
produced 500 litres... What! 5,000!!! Where did you get *that*
idea from! :) ).

> ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating and
> for use in my car?
>
> steve


I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about recycling 
vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do 
anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot 
cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need to 
run a family car for a year.....?

Alistair

Ali Mac wrote:


> I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about recycling 
> vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do 
> anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot 
> cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need to 
> run a family car for a year.....?


IIRC one of the artichoke family is one of the best things to grow for 
production of bio diesel - you can get quite significant yields per acre.

Not sure what the taxation issues would be on using it for house heating 
though. You can grow stuff and burn it for heating without any 
liability, so it seems reasonable that you ought to be able to introduce 
a refining process in there ;-)

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

r.p.mcmurphy  wrote in message
news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others,
> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
> households sewerage?
>
> cheers
>
> steve
>
>


I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
This contaminated fuel has had its duty paid and would cost 40 x 25Lt for
them to dispose of.
So I have recently acquired a Rolls-Royce K60 multi fuel engine which I hope
to hang a Huge generator on.
Free electricity/Heat for a few years. :-)

-

Tim Morley wrote:

> 
> "r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote 
> > Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others,
> > is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
> > households sewerage?
> >
 
> This is illegal; once your sewage has entered the fall pipe it is deemed to
> be the property of your local water authority. They have the legal right to
> your waste, and therefore you are not allowed to do anything with it at all.
> 

This isn't likely to apply to those of us who use septic systems!

Sheila

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 GMT, "Ali Mac" 
wrote:


>I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about recycling 
>vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do 
>anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot 
>cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need to 
>run a family car for a year.....?


What about Harry Ramsden's who use beef dripping? Yum!!

Can you run a car on animal fat? When you think about it, converting
grass into fuel through cows is quite an interesting idea.

Mr F.

"Mark"  wrote in message
news:pByVe.13955$Aa1.11955@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
snip

> So I have recently acquired a Rolls-Royce K60 multi fuel engine which I
hope
> to hang a Huge generator on.
> Free electricity/Heat for a few years. :-)


Just as long as I don't live next door. Bit noisy for the neighbours..

Mr Fizzion <wankel@rotary.engine> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 GMT, "Ali Mac" 
> wrote:
> 
>>I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about recycling 
>>vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do 
>>anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot 
>>cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need to 
>>run a family car for a year.....?
> 
> What about Harry Ramsden's who use beef dripping? Yum!!
> 
> Can you run a car on animal fat? When you think about it, converting
> grass into fuel through cows is quite an interesting idea.


You can, you need to process it first.
google
foolproof biodiesel process

In message <pByVe.13955$Aa1.11955@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>, Mark 
 writes

>
>r.p.mcmurphy  wrote in message
>news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others,
>> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
>> households sewerage?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> steve
>>
>>
>
>I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
>people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.


What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the 
brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago

Brake fluid is rubbish a pig to get burning

-- 
geoff

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:24:51 UTC, raden  wrote:


> In message <pByVe.13955$Aa1.11955@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>, Mark 
>  writes
> >
> >r.p.mcmurphy  wrote in message
> >news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> >> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others,
> >> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
> >> households sewerage?
> >
> >I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
> >people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
> 
> What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the 
> brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago


I had a case where a woman filled up her radiator with petrol - Hillman 
Imp too. You can see why, if you know Imps.

-- 
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
   http://laminateflooring.oncloud8.com

In article , 
rde42@spamcop.net says...

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:24:51 UTC, raden  wrote:
> 
> > In message <pByVe.13955$Aa1.11955@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>, Mark 
> >  writes
> > >
> > >r.p.mcmurphy  wrote in message
> > >news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> > >> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others,
> > >> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
> > >> households sewerage?
> > >
> > >I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
> > >people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
> > 
> > What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the 
> > brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago
> 
> I had a case where a woman filled up her radiator with petrol - Hillman 
> Imp too. You can see why, if you know Imps.
> 
> 


I once had a girlfirend, who was bought a car by her mother. She duly 
collected it from the garage, and went to fill it up. Not being sure 
whether it took leaded or unleaded, she checked the owners manual wihch 
the garage had given her, which told her to use leaded. So she did.

Unfortunately, it was a diesel car, and the garage presented her with 
a nice big bill for cleaning and repairs. Her reply was that if toucans 
can do it, so could the garage. Surprisingly, they agreed there and then 
to waive the bill!

raden  wrote in message
news:zyEHwwSvH0JDFwb0@ntlworld.com...

> >> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and
others,
> >> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
> >> households sewerage?
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
> >people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
>
> What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the
> brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago
>
> Brake fluid is rubbish a pig to get burning
>



Hmm.. Hillman Imp brake reservoir capacity ?
This thing is a 7000cc 2-stroke ,That's about one missed bang then. :-)

-

Mark  wrote:

> 
> raden  wrote in message
> news:zyEHwwSvH0JDFwb0@ntlworld.com...
>> >> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and
> others,
>> >> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
>> >> households sewerage?
>> >>
>> >> cheers
>> >>
>> >> steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend to
>> >people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
>>
>> What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the
>> brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago
>>
>> Brake fluid is rubbish a pig to get burning
>>
> 
> 
> Hmm.. Hillman Imp brake reservoir capacity ?
> This thing is a 7000cc 2-stroke ,That's about one missed bang then. :-)
> 


Petrol in the brake fluid, not brake fluid in the petrol.

On 14 Sep 2005 09:41:42 GMT, Ian Stirling 
wrote:



>Petrol in the brake fluid, not brake fluid in the petrol.


It has been known for the wrong fuel to be dispensed via a pump in a 
garage. 

I recall a news report on the radio - I think it might have been LBC 
Radio in London. This must be going back about 10 -15 years ago when a
new superstore (complete with petrol station) opened in or near 
Yeovil. Apparently, the engineers incorrectly connected the supply 
onto a petrol pump. I think people wanting unleaded got diesel and 
people wanting diesel got unleaded. 

Around 140 customers were affected before the error was identified. 

Also Years ago, there was a patrol officer for either the AA or RAC
who wrote a book about some of the amusing problems that he and other 
patrol officers had come across on their travels. The patrol officer 
was interviewed on radio. The interview was on LBC radio 
in London. 

The patrol officer said that he was called to a petrol station to deal
with a car where someone had accidentally filled up their petrol tank 
with diesel. The patrol officer told the driver that they would need 
to arrange with a garage to drain the tank. 

The patrol officer drove off after several minutes - and just as he 
was doing so -  there was a major explosion at the petrol station. 

The motorist had pushed their car over to the car vacum cleaner. They 
purchased a token, removed the back seat in the car (it was an old 
car) to reveal the petrol tank and removed the inspection cover to the
tank. They shoved the hose from the car vac into the tank and put in 
the token. 

The petrol in the tank was ignited by the spark in the car vac's 
electric motor. 

Graham

graham@dircon.co.uk wrote:

> On 14 Sep 2005 09:41:42 GMT, Ian Stirling 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Petrol in the brake fluid, not brake fluid in the petrol.
> 
> 
> It has been known for the wrong fuel to be dispensed via a pump in a 
> garage. 
> 
> I recall a news report on the radio - I think it might have been LBC 
> Radio in London. This must be going back about 10 -15 years ago when a
> new superstore (complete with petrol station) opened in or near 
> Yeovil. Apparently, the engineers incorrectly connected the supply 
> onto a petrol pump. I think people wanting unleaded got diesel and 
> people wanting diesel got unleaded. 
> 
> Around 140 customers were affected before the error was identified. 
> 
> Also Years ago, there was a patrol officer for either the AA or RAC
> who wrote a book about some of the amusing problems that he and other 
> patrol officers had come across on their travels. The patrol officer 
> was interviewed on radio. The interview was on LBC radio 
> in London. 
> 
> The patrol officer said that he was called to a petrol station to deal
> with a car where someone had accidentally filled up their petrol tank 
> with diesel. The patrol officer told the driver that they would need 
> to arrange with a garage to drain the tank. 
> 
> The patrol officer drove off after several minutes - and just as he 
> was doing so -  there was a major explosion at the petrol station. 
> 
> The motorist had pushed their car over to the car vacum cleaner. They 
> purchased a token, removed the back seat in the car (it was an old 
> car) to reveal the petrol tank and removed the inspection cover to the
> tank. They shoved the hose from the car vac into the tank and put in 
> the token. 
> 
> The petrol in the tank was ignited by the spark in the car vac's 
> electric motor. 
> 
> Graham 
> 
> 
> 

....and the patrol officer became witness to another Darwin award 
presentation!

Mark wrote:


> So I have recently acquired a Rolls-Royce K60 multi fuel engine which I hope
> to hang a Huge generator on.


(Sadly) a piece-of-crap engine.  A B40 would have been a lot better.
Even then almost anything commercial is a better bet than an ex-mil
Rolls. At least it wasn't the infernal Leyland lump out of the
Chieftain.

If you want a methane powered generator, then buy something modern and
small. Just getting the sizing right is a big help and any Honka genny
dealer should sell off-the-shelf propane kits that do most of the work
for you. Some of the Stalwart refurb people are doing gas conversions
for the B series lumpen and a K series is much the same kit.

If you're insistent on doing it with big old iron, then '50s petrol
truck engines are worth a look (mine was an Austin). But one of the
best engines around for cow-power is a straight-six Jag  (and the
mil-version is ready-to-roll, if a little hard to find).

I suggest uk.rec.engines.stationary for discussion of these topics.
Lots of genny people in there.

On 14 Sep 2005 06:33:33 -0700, dingbat@codesmiths.com wrote:


>Mark wrote:
>
>> So I have recently acquired a Rolls-Royce K60 multi fuel engine which I hope
>> to hang a Huge generator on.
>
>(Sadly) a piece-of-crap engine. 

Is it?

> A B40 would have been a lot better.


Half a stalwart engine out of a champ, part of a rush for common
components that was beaten by stock engines from Rover.

Won't run on diesel either.

I have a couple of acquaintances who run ex mod vehicles on
petrol/diesel mixes recovered by breakdown crews, one even attempted
to circumnavigate the isle of white with some. The K60 6 cylinder 12
piston unit powered this.

AJH

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:24:51 GMT, raden  wrote:


>Brake fluid is rubbish a pig to get burning


If it's DOT 3 glycol and not old enough to be full of water, then you
can get it going hypergolically with some potassium permanganate.

That's if you can _find_ permanganate of potash these days.  8-(

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:08:10 +0200, AJH  wrote:


>Half a stalwart engine out of a champ, part of a rush for common
>components that was beaten by stock engines from Rover.


The Stolly is quite a bit different, as it's a laid-down block. That "B
series" concept never worked really much more than commonality of blocks
and reciprocating parts, and causing the B40 engine to be vastly
overweight for what it was capable of.


>Won't run on diesel either.


They will, or at least did, but I'm not sure how common the bits were.
There were even diesel-fuelled Meteors (the land Merlin)

In message , Andy Dingley 
 writes

>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:24:51 GMT, raden  wrote:
>
>>Brake fluid is rubbish a pig to get burning
>
>If it's DOT 3 glycol and not old enough to be full of water, then you
>can get it going hypergolically with some potassium permanganate.
>
>That's if you can _find_ permanganate of potash these days.  8-(
>

There's a jam jar of it somewhere in the loft

Right next bbq ...

-- 
geoff

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:22:09 GMT, "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE
UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:


>
>"r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote in message 
>news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and others, 
>> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your 
>> households sewerage?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> steve
>>
>
>This is illegal; once your sewage has entered the fall pipe it is deemed to 
>be the property of your local water authority. They have the legal right to 
>your waste, and therefore you are not allowed to do anything with it at all.
>
>HTH 
>


That may be the case, but some of us have "private sewage", so it
remains our property / problem.

I am somewhat interested to see answers to the orignal question.

Rick

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 GMT, "Ali Mac" 
wrote:


>
>> ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating and
>> for use in my car?
>>
>> steve
>
>I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about recycling 
>vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do 
>anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot 
>cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need to 
>run a family car for a year.....?
>
>Alistair
>


You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the road
fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and you
have to buy 1000 litre tanks.

Rick

"Rick"  wrote in message 
news:rh2ji1hcf6g81ok0mjkbrfg8ski5ml1r6f@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 GMT, "Ali Mac" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating 
>>> and
>>> for use in my car?
>>>
>>> steve
>>
>>I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about 
>>recycling
>>vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do
>>anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot
>>cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need 
>>to
>>run a family car for a year.....?
>>
>>Alistair
>>
>
> You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the road
> fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and you
> have to buy 1000 litre tanks.


Why would you wish to, unless it was significantly cheaper?

Bob Mannix

In article <dgc28b$bl$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>, Bob Mannix wrote:

> > You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the road
> > fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and you
> > have to buy 1000 litre tanks.
> 
> Why would you wish to, unless it was significantly cheaper?


It's cheaper if it's reused oil - as viewers of yesterday's Working Lunch 
will know:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/4246534.stm

-- 
Tony Bryer SDA UK  'Software to build on'  http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:59:22 +0100, "Bob Mannix"
 wrote:


>
>"Rick"  wrote in message 
>news:rh2ji1hcf6g81ok0mjkbrfg8ski5ml1r6f@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 GMT, "Ali Mac" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating 
>>>> and
>>>> for use in my car?
>>>>
>>>> steve
>>>
>>>I saw aTop Gear a couple of years ago when they were talking about 
>>>recycling
>>>vegetable oil from chip shops for use as a diesel substitute. You can do
>>>anything like this, but apparently you have to pay fuel duty. Still a lot
>>>cheaper than buying it though. Now how many acres of rape would you need 
>>>to
>>>run a family car for a year.....?
>>>
>>>Alistair
>>>
>>
>> You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the road
>> fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and you
>> have to buy 1000 litre tanks.
>
>Why would you wish to, unless it was significantly cheaper?
>
>Bob Mannix 
>


Thats why I don't use it. At 10p a litre cheeper, I would.

Rick

"Ali Mac"  wrote in message
news:0hwVe.5820$yF2.5657@newsfe6-win.ntli.net

 

> > ok, what about growing my own rapeseed oil for use in domestic heating and
> > for use in my car?

> Now how many acres of rape would you need to run a family car for a year?


But you would still have the bulk of the crop for fodder. The actual
seed is only a small part of the plant. And it does grow quickly I
believe.


http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cars.misc/browse_frm/thread/6c0a5eb81ddbafe7/25e8e2853d0890d0?hl=en&


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

graham@dircon.co.uk wrote in news:c62gi1l2a07p5gf1gm2s0khl9muimleqn7@
4ax.com:


> I recall a news report on the radio - I think it might have been LBC 
> Radio in London. This must be going back about 10 -15 years ago when a
> new superstore (complete with petrol station) opened in or near 
> Yeovil. Apparently, the engineers incorrectly connected the supply 
> onto a petrol pump. I think people wanting unleaded got diesel and 
> people wanting diesel got unleaded. 
> 


Similarly far back, I got a tank of water and petrol mix. It was explained 
that Hampshire fire brigade insisted on a pressure test using water for 
newly installed forecourt storage tanks. And some of it got left in there.

Not best pleased as you might imagine but, after suitable drain, clean, 
refill, the car seemed fine.

-- 
Rod

"Gary Cavie"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.1d9159095759e8d09896b1@news.individual.net...

> In article ,
> rde42@spamcop.net says...
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:24:51 UTC, raden  wrote:
>>
>> > In message <pByVe.13955$Aa1.11955@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>, Mark
>> >  writes
>> > >
>> > >r.p.mcmurphy  wrote in message
>> > >news:432684d3$0$17492$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> > >> Hehe!  Seriously though, with the continuing price rises by BG and 
>> > >> others,
>> > >> is it a diy possibility to produce and store gas produced from your
>> > >> households sewerage?
>> > >
>> > >I let storage space to a local breakdown recovery firm who also attend 
>> > >to
>> > >people who put petrol in diesel cars and vice versa.
>> >
>> > What about the woman who I just managed to stop putting petrol in the
>> > brake fluid reservoir of her Hillman Imp some years ago
>>
>> I had a case where a woman filled up her radiator with petrol - Hillman
>> Imp too. You can see why, if you know Imps.


I used to have an Imp. Both filler caps were under the bonnet, but the 
engine wasn't.  On mine the voltage regulator kept playing up without 
warning, and I got stranded with a flat battery about 5 times before it was 
sorted.  Grrrrr

I'll never forget my boss being puffed up with his first firm's car in 1967 
and proudly taking it down the garage to fill up for the first time.  It was 
an Austin 1800 and being new to transverse engines, he managed to put oil in 
the radiator and water in the sump :o)

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:59:22 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:


>> You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the 
>> road fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and 
>> you have to buy 1000 litre tanks.
> 
> Why would you wish to, unless it was significantly cheaper?


Most (all?) cooking oils are vegetable derived thus carbon neutral. 
The fact that HMG inists on taxing such energy sources at the same 
rate as fossil fuels really shows which side this government thinks 
it's bread is buttered. The government is only paying lip service to 
developing renewable energy.

Bio derived fuels ought be taxed at a rate significantly less than 
fossil derived ones. The coresponding decrease in the retail price 
would create a demand and thus stimulate the production of such 
renewable fuels.

-- 
Cheers                                              new5pam@howhill.com
Dave.                                             pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote:


>On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:59:22 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:
>
>>> You can actually buy chip shop oil for use in your car, with the 
>>> road fund duty paid. Its about the same price as proper diesel, and 
>>> you have to buy 1000 litre tanks.
>> 
>> Why would you wish to, unless it was significantly cheaper?
>
>Most (all?) cooking oils are vegetable derived thus carbon neutral. 


But they are not environment neutral, like most so called green
products they can cause huge "unseen" problems. Displacement of
traditional crops for biofuel production is conveniently forgotten,
the excitation requirements for wind turbines is another, the toxic
waste from solar cell production is another. The list goes on and on.


>The fact that HMG inists on taxing such energy sources at the same 
>rate as fossil fuels really shows which side this government thinks 
>it's bread is buttered. 


On the underside if you drop it, using the vast butter mountain. ;-)


>The government is only paying lip service to 
>developing renewable energy.


Maybe they want to avoid a monoculture environment and ensure there is
still food on the shelves down at Tesco when you drive there in an
"environmentally friendly" car.


>Bio derived fuels ought be taxed at a rate significantly less than 
>fossil derived ones. The coresponding decrease in the retail price 
>would create a demand and thus stimulate the production of such 
>renewable fuels.


When they start putting a significant amount of freight back on
rails.... expect fuel duty cuts on biofuels to follow within five
years :-)



--

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:58:26 +0100, Matt wrote:


>> Most (all?) cooking oils are vegetable derived thus carbon neutral. 
> 
> But they are not environment neutral, 


I carefully didn't mention the enviroment only carbon.  B-)


> ... like most so called green products they can cause huge "unseen" 
> problems. Displacement of traditional crops for biofuel production 
> is conveniently forgotten, the excitation requirements for wind 
> turbines is another, the toxic waste from solar cell production is 
> another. The list goes on and on.


Everything we do produces waste some of it pretty nasty some of it 
more or less harmless. The land around here could be used to grow 
willow, all be it slowly compared to lower and warmer climes. I 
suspect you could still have the sheep grazing between the stumps once 
established.


>> The government is only paying lip service to developing renewable 
>> energy.
> 
> Maybe they want to avoid a monoculture environment and ensure there 
> is still food on the shelves down at Tesco ...


More likely they are responding to the commercial pressure groups. 
It's well know that wind farms are much more effcient off shore but 
all the private companies want to build on shore because it's 
significantly cheaper. Perfectly obvious that they are not building 
windfarms to "save the planet" only to get get money from HMG for the 
benefit of the directors and shareholders.


> When they start putting a significant amount of freight back on
> rails.... 


Oink flap, the canals could be used as well.

-- 
Cheers                                              new5pam@howhill.com
Dave.                                             pam is missing e-mail