How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at 
the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Cheers

Angus

"Angus Robins"  wrote in message 
news:jfCdnVz_YrngX7neRVnyhg@fireflyuk.net...

> How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
> Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?
>
> Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels 
> at the moment. Any advice.
> Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.
>
> Cheers
>
> Angus
>


Hi Angus,

If you're right handed you wind the handle with your right hand with the 
reel on top of the rod,  your left hand holds the rod just under and in 
front of the reel and you use your left thumb to guide the line evenly back 
onto the reel.

If you want distance then you definately don't want a level-wind ;-)  With 
practice you can get the line back on the spool just as evenly by hand as 
with a level-wind,  and even of the wind is a bit uneven you won't lose much 
distance because of it.  You will lose more distance by having a level-wind 
as the mechanism will cause friction as the spool rotates during the cast - 
also the level-wind will prevent you getting your thumb right over the spool 
for a good grip.

Don't know much about Penn reels but I do like Diawa. I have a couple of old 
7HTs in the tackle box and they are awesome.  They aren't as fast as 
something like an ABU 6500CT but they are much more 'fishable'. The 6500CTs 
are great for distance but can be a bit fiery,  whereas the 7HT will still 
cast well but isn't so 'artistic' - especially with the wind in your face. 
Having said that I have still managed over 200 yards on the tournament court 
with a 7HT ;-)

If you're looking to fish rough ground from the shore then the Diawa SL20SH 
or SL30SH ( SLOSHES ) are good for that. They are heavy duty casting reels 
( they have centrifugal brakes inside ) the 30 being the heavier of the two. 
You can load them up with 30lb line and really bully fish out of rocky areas 
with them.  I've got the 30 and it's retrieve ratio is brilliant - two or 
three turns of the handle and the fish are on the surface.

Penn do similar reels to the 6500CT, 7HT & Sloshes but like I said I have 
never tried them.  They are supposed to be pretty good though,  maybe 
someone else can talk with experience ;-)

Cheers - ETV

Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.

BTW, given that a lot of waters around Scotland are deep close in,
remember that you can actually 'overcast', fish are closer than
you may think.

As for reel choice, my own preference is ABU.



Angus Robins wrote:

> How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
> Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?
> 
> Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at 
> the moment. Any advice.
> Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Angus 
> 
> 

In article , Angus Robins
<URL:mailto:angusruk@fireflyuk.net> wrote:

> How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
> Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?
> 
> Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at 
> the moment. Any advice.
> Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.


Oops! You've been reading the wrong magazines.

[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
  consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
  extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
  London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
  they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
  Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
  owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
  fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
]

I'd be surprised if you wanted to bottom fish your area for much of the year
- unless you're fond of dogfish.  Even so, in many places an 80 yard cast
will put you beyond the fish so level wind drag will be too small to
measure.

For the next couple of months concentrate on spinning and floatfishing.
Leave the bottom gear at home 'til you hear of a few decent catches.

And in rocky, graunchy or snaggy areas you need to retrieve as quickly as
possible so a big fixed-spool reel might be of more use to you than a
multiplier.

Hth. Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

Having both an Abu 6500C with level wind and a Mag Elite CT without, I am 
now looking for a Hybrid reel ie one with  a level wind but with the 
additional space to get a solid thumb grip on the spool as offered by the 
CT.
Then I'll have the best of both worlds.
It will have to be an ABU though 'cos I love 'em both to bits..
Any suggestions and I'll try to get a prototype conversion made.
Tight Lines
Keith M


"seaside"  wrote in message 
news:dg3e2u$5rf$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> Angus,
>
> Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
> say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
> a lead 150yds plus.
>
> I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
> a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
> focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
> Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
> actually helps control the cast.
>
> BTW, given that a lot of waters around Scotland are deep close in,
> remember that you can actually 'overcast', fish are closer than
> you may think.
>
> As for reel choice, my own preference is ABU.
>
>
>
> Angus Robins wrote:
>> How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
>> Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?
>>
>> Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels 
>> at the moment. Any advice.
>> Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Angus 

"seaside"  wrote in message 
news:dg3e2u$5rf$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> Angus,
>
> Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
> say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
> a lead 150yds plus.
>
> I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
> a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
> focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
> Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
> actually helps control the cast.
>


< snip >

How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?

ETV

>"Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
>news:ant120946b49BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...
>
> [ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
>  consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
>  extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
>  London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
>  they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
>  Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
>  owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
>  fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
> ]


Utter bilge.

Longe range casting isn't just for casting long ranges.  When fishing into 
the wind the ability to put some extra power behind the cast ( long range 
techniques ) allows you to put the lead out far enough to get into calmer 
water and get a grip on the bottom.  Under such conditions you may still 
only be getting 40yds - but anglers than can't cast as far end up packing up 
and going home.

If you can cast long distances you have the option of fishing close in, or 
far out.  Anglers that cannot cast long distances can only fish close in. 
The whole point is widening your options,  if your limited to short range 
you had better hope the fish are close in.

Furthermore distance casting in itself has developed into a sport enjoyed by 
many anglers.  The process of learning and prefecting the pendulum cast or 
the back cast are both enjoyable and rewarding.  Same goes for fly fishing, 
the casting technique takes years to master but half the fun is in improving 
your casting style and getting better at it each time you go.

With respect to beachcasters, what beaches do you fish on where the anglers 
"use one sometimes when fishing is slow or the whiting are running"?  Have 
you been fishing since the 60's?  Blimey even Mackerel fishermen use 
beachcasters.  I don't think I have fished a single shore match that didn't 
feature dozens of beachcasters.

What strangely misguided advice.

ETV

Whilst not fully appreciating some of the points offered here I feel that 
the response has been an enlightening one for me. I have gleaned some useful 
stuff; however, am now asking more questions! Such is the price of progress!
BTW are dogfish a nuisance...I thought that they might offer a good bit of 
sport on the right tackle and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of a 
shore caught Tope. Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic: beginners 
gusto, ignorance or something similar.
However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get 
something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions. I'll listen 
carefully to any more snippets on the pros and cons of multipliers but why 
not use an 11' or 12',  4 - 6oz beachcaster even for quite close-in rocky 
shore work? I was quite used to handling carp from the margins on a rod of 
that length.

Thanks again for the advice and entertainment so far...much appreciated.

Angus
Applecross

"Eric The Viking"  wrote in message 
news:4325f0d2.0@entanet...

>
> "seaside"  wrote in message 
> news:dg3e2u$5rf$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> Angus,
>>
>> Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
>> say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
>> a lead 150yds plus.
>>
>> I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
>> a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
>> focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
>> Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
>> actually helps control the cast.
>>
>
> < snip >
>
> How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?
>
> ETV
> 

Hi Angus,

Not sure about the specifics of fishing in Scotland,  have only 'angled' 
there half a dozen times when working near Faslane - and that was only when 
I could slope away from work for a bit ;-)

Dogfish can be a right menace, speaking from the South West there are times 
when your bait doesn't even hit the bottom before a Dogfish is on your it. 
The real menace is when you're Cod fishing and you put about 3 quids worth 
of quality black lug and peeler on the hook only to have it intercepted by a 
Dogfish.  Having said that, there are nights when you'd be glad of a 
Dogfish - just to prove that there is life in the Sea ;-)  Must admit I've 
never tried them on light tackle but even on heavy gear a brace of 3 Dogfish 
at a time gives you something to wind in.

Personally I own all kinds of rods but my favorites are a Diawa AWB 129 and 
a Diawa TDXS 129 - both 12' 9" beachcasters. They are powerful enough for 
the kind of "Long Range" antics described earlier, but are also good close 
in - a rod only casts as far as you want it to ;-) The downside of using a 
12' beachcaster is that you lose a lot of the enjoyment of the fight.  The 
heavier the rod is the bigger the fish you need to catch to put a bend in 
it.  If you catch a 10lb Bass on a carp rod the scrap would be immense,  on 
a 12' beachcaster the rod will tend to tire the fish very quickly and almost 
bully it into submisison.

I do a lot of heavy rock fishing all along the Dorset coast and usually use 
a really heavy beachcaster ( Conoflex Tournament Extreme ). It's more of a 
scaffolding pole than a rod really but teamed up with a SLOSH 30 with 30lb 
mainline straight through it will cope with the roughest environments.  The 
main use for this rig is Wrasse fishing ( not sure if you get many Wrasse in 
Scotland? ). With Wrasse, they tend to grab the bait and dive straight under 
a house sized rock, the only way to get them up is with animal gear and a 
fast retrieve reel to keep them above the bottom. I'm not talking about the 
6 - inchers you get on a float fished ragworm but the 4lb plus fish that 
would give a Spanish trawler a fright ;-)  The other use for this gear is 
fishing for Congers from the shore - again it's a 'Take no prisoners' form 
of angling. One good benefit of a heavy rod is that you have more chance of 
craning up a fish if you are fishing from a high ledge.

If you already have a selection of carp rods, you're already setup for 
spinning and float fishing - even light legering. You could get yourself a 
12' beach caster for heavier fishing and it would compliment your existing 
kit nicely.

The choice of Fixed spool or multiplier is down to personal preference 
really. Multipliers are more difficult to start on as they tend to 'fluff 
up' on you when you cast them. Out of the box the ABUs are more likely to 
birds nest during a cast than the Diawa 7HT but the ABU reels are more of a 
racehorse and are more highly strung.  The topic of level winds has been 
covered so I won't go there again ;-)  But if you decide on a multiplier be 
prepared for loads of 'fluff ups' for the first few casts.  It's worth 
making sure that a new multiplier has all the brake blocks fitted ( they 
have little fibre cylindrical blocks fitted inside one of the reel caps ) 
unless you get a 'Mag' reel,  and it's also worth putting a drop of 10w40 
engine oil in each of the bearings to tame things down until you get used to 
the casting action.  Personally I prefer multipliers but lots of people 
swear by and use fixed spools - both have good points and bad points.


ETV


"Angus Robins"  wrote in message 
news:7uOdnV5b7ezmmLveRVnyuQ@fireflyuk.net...

> Whilst not fully appreciating some of the points offered here I feel that 
> the response has been an enlightening one for me. I have gleaned some 
> useful stuff; however, am now asking more questions! Such is the price of 
> progress!
> BTW are dogfish a nuisance...I thought that they might offer a good bit of 
> sport on the right tackle and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of 
> a shore caught Tope. Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic: beginners 
> gusto, ignorance or something similar.
> However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get 
> something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions. I'll 
> listen carefully to any more snippets on the pros and cons of multipliers 
> but why not use an 11' or 12',  4 - 6oz beachcaster even for quite 
> close-in rocky shore work? I was quite used to handling carp from the 
> margins on a rod of that length.
>
> Thanks again for the advice and entertainment so far...much appreciated.
>
> Angus
> Applecross
>
> "Eric The Viking"  wrote in message 
> news:4325f0d2.0@entanet...
>>
>> "seaside"  wrote in message 
>> news:dg3e2u$5rf$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>> Angus,
>>>
>>> Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
>>> say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
>>> a lead 150yds plus.
>>>
>>> I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
>>> a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
>>> focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
>>> Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
>>> actually helps control the cast.
>>>
>>
>> < snip >
>>
>> How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?
>>
>> ETV
>>
>
> 

Angus,


> ..... BTW are dogfish a nuisance...


I'll try an analogy, to some daisies are pretty flowers, to others
they are weeds.


> I thought that they might offer a good bit of sport on the right tackle


they can, but like mackerel, if they are around it's pretty difficult
to catch much else, unlike mackerel, they are considered to be *weeds*


> and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of a shore caught Tope. 

Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic>

I'm afraid so, it used to be possible at one time, but now 'fraid not,
but that should not stop you trying - you never know


> However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get 
> something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions. 


True, and asking "which rod" is also a holy grail type question, my
suggestion FWIW, avoid spending a shed load of money initially, just
see a local tackle dealer and get a competent setup to gain experience.

Also sea fishing is not just about chucking heavy leads around, there
are many areas, particularly in Scotland, where spinning, floatfishing 
or freelining for mackerel, saithe and sea-trout etc is really good fun.
Your carp rods would be fine for some of that and also for chasing
flatties.

....and going full circle on the rod thing, I too live and fish in NW
Scotland (a bit further N than Angus's Applecross) and have been
fishing here since kid-hood many years ago, mostly from boats. Just
this year I was looking to buy a carp rod so I could get more sport out
of catching all these hard-fighting Pollock ...

In article <4325fa02.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
<URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:

> 
> >"Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
> >news:ant120946b49BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...
> >
> > [ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
> >  consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
> >  extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
> >  London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
> >  they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
> >  Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
> >  owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
> >  fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
> > ]
> 
> Utter bilge.


:-)  Go on, think about it...


> Longe range casting isn't just for casting long ranges.  When fishing into 
> the wind the ability to put some extra power behind the cast ( long range 
> techniques ) allows you to put the lead out far enough to get into calmer 
> water and get a grip on the bottom.  Under such conditions you may still 
> only be getting 40yds - but anglers than can't cast as far end up packing up 
> and going home.


Some would check the weather forecast and put in brownie points at home
until the storm is dropping and the disturbed bait is dropping out of the
water column into the gutter...


> If you can cast long distances you have the option of fishing close in, or 
> far out.  Anglers that cannot cast long distances can only fish close in.


Fine.  There are almost always more close in.  Leave the specialist
long-range stuff 'til it's needed.
 

> The whole point is widening your options,  if your limited to short range 
> you had better hope the fish are close in.
> 
> Furthermore distance casting in itself has developed into a sport enjoyed by 
> many anglers.  The process of learning and prefecting the pendulum cast or


Which is fine if that's what you want.  Have fun.  The OP is beginning
saltwater -fishing- and has been misled into following a standard form that
would result in him catching fewer fish than he might.


> With respect to beachcasters, what beaches do you fish on where the anglers 
> "use one sometimes when fishing is slow or the whiting are running"?  Have 


Practically all of them.  The pity is that many use them the rest of the
time too.  By far the greatest number of the fish I catch from the shore are
taken flyfishing.


> you been fishing since the 60's?  Blimey even Mackerel fishermen use 
> beachcasters.  I don't think I have fished a single shore match that didn't 
> feature dozens of beachcasters.


A classic story is the one where two anglers turned up at a local beach to
find a match in progress.  Dozens of beachcasters.  They wandered down the
beach flicking out plugs and spinners between the matchmen and caught and
returned a dozen or so bass, several of them sizeable.  The match was won
with two smll flatties.

On another local beach (Chesil) organisers took to banning floatfishing with
groundbait for gar and scad because the same two or three anglers were
winning everything.

Just because match anglers all do the same thing it doesn't follow that they
know what they're doing.


> What strangely misguided advice.


I don't think I've used a beachcaster in the last three years - but I've
caught plenty.

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

In article , Angus Robins
<URL:mailto:angusruk@fireflyuk.net> wrote:


> BTW are dogfish a nuisance...I thought that they might offer a good bit of


Sometimes.  Luckily they don't often get to a float fished bait.
 

> sport on the right tackle and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of a 
> shore caught Tope. Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic: beginners


The few places where that is a possibility are way beyond long casting
(possible exception during the spring spawning run.)  One I can think of is
a very flat estuary where you wade out at low tide, cast half a flounder
into the channel, wade back and retreat as the tide rises and begin to hope
for a take about an hour an a half and three hundred yards later.  You can
understand the frustration if that turns out to be a small doggie...


> However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get


They will do for at least three quarters of your fishing.  Carp rods are
made to deal with fish up to thirty pounds or so and there's not a lot you
can expect from the shore that runs larger.  
 

> carefully to any more snippets on the pros and cons of multipliers but why 
> not use an 11' or 12',  4 - 6oz beachcaster even for quite close-in rocky 
> shore work?


You can if you like but they're awkward to hold, lousy for playing fish
(designed for casting, not fishing) and vastly overgun most of the fish
you'll meet.


>              I was quite used to handling carp from the margins on a rod of 
> that length.


So use the carp rods.  Only copy the other beachcasting anglers if and when
they are catching more and better fish than you.

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

Angus,


> Which is fine if that's what you want.  Have fun.  The OP is beginning
> saltwater -fishing- and has been misled into following a standard form that
> would result in him catching fewer fish than he might.
> 

Derek has a very good point here, horizon blasting can be necessary
to reach fish on very flat beaches but around your area there's plenty
of deep water close to and you can easily over-cast the fish as they'll
be feeding in the weedy/rocky margins rather than the 'desert' further out.

> 
>>Blimey even Mackerel fishermen use beachcasters. 


And that's a real shame, mackerel on light tackle = fun, mackerel on
a 6 feather string and beachcaster = waste.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:17:42 +0000 (UTC), seaside
 wrote:


>Angus,
>
>> Which is fine if that's what you want.  Have fun.  The OP is beginning
>> saltwater -fishing- and has been misled into following a standard form that
>> would result in him catching fewer fish than he might.
>> 
>Derek has a very good point here, horizon blasting can be necessary
>to reach fish on very flat beaches but around your area there's plenty
>of deep water close to and you can easily over-cast the fish as they'll
>be feeding in the weedy/rocky margins rather than the 'desert' further out.


There are areas where fishing close in demands very heavy tackle
indeed. On the east coast, particularly northwards from Northumberland
to NE Scotland, most anglers use heavy beachcasters and anything from
30lb bs line upwards to tackle the rough ground cod fishing.
The fish are usually close in, and you could quite easily use a carp
rod to reach them, and such a rod would be more than capable of
handling any fish likely to be encountered. What a light rod couldn't
do is get the fish out of the kelp tangles in the first place.
The anglers up there don't use heavy tackle because they're numpties
who don't know any better. In summer many of them use carp and light
spinning rods to tackle the pollack, mackerel and estuary flatties,
and even bass where they're to be found, but experience has shown that
such gear is totally inadequate to bully cod out of the real rough
ground.
Such fishing might not appeal to the 'purist' but demands skills of
its own, and to denigrate the use of beachcasters without taking into
account the circumstances which have led to them being the 'weapon of
choice'in some areas and at some times is as blinkered as saying that
only beachcasters have a place in sea angling.
I use everything from fly gear at one end of the spectrum to heavy
rock rods at the other, throughout the course of a year, and I'd be
hard put to say which gives the most pleasure.

Cheers
Ian D

In message <dg9eum$n6a$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, seaside 
 writes

>>>Blimey even Mackerel fishermen use beachcasters.
>
>And that's a real shame, mackerel on light tackle = fun, mackerel on
>a 6 feather string and beachcaster = waste.

Depends how long the barbeque has left to burn. Fastest time from sea to 
plate was just a tad under 10 mins which I don't think you could achieve 
if you are 'playing' the fish with light tackle.
-- 
Clint Sharp

In article <m$CE9tIWxJKDFwRB@clintsmc.demon.co.uk>, Clint Sharp
<URL:mailto:clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:


> Depends how long the barbeque has left to burn. Fastest time from sea to 
> plate was just a tad under 10 mins which I don't think you could achieve 
> if you are 'playing' the fish with light tackle.


Why is the unhooking, killing, gutting and dropping onto BBQ process faster
if the fish is lifted from the water on a 50lb feather snood rather than a
6lb bs straight through freeline?

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

In message , Derek.Moody 
 writes

>In article <m$CE9tIWxJKDFwRB@clintsmc.demon.co.uk>, Clint Sharp
><URL:mailto:clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Depends how long the barbeque has left to burn. Fastest time from sea to
>> plate was just a tad under 10 mins which I don't think you could achieve
>> if you are 'playing' the fish with light tackle.
>
>Why is the unhooking, killing, gutting and dropping onto BBQ process faster
>if the fish is lifted from the water on a 50lb feather snood rather than a
>6lb bs straight through freeline?
>
>Cheerio,
>

Because you're not playing the fish for five minutes before you lift it, 
I suppose I should have said from strike to plate really. It also helps 
if you have a fully occupied 6 hook set of feathers if you're feeding 
several people which I think you would have difficulty retrieving on the 
rig you mention.
-- 
Clint Sharp

In article <432b02ed.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
<URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:

> 
> "Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
> news:ant161442bc8BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...
> > In article <432a9049.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
> > <URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:

> >> think its more misleading to summarily dismiss 'heavy fishing' and coax 
> >> the
> >
> > I don't recall dismissing heavy fishing anywhere in this thread.  Perhaps
> > you can remind me where I did so.
> 
> "[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
>   consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
>   extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
>   London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
>   they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
>   Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
>   owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
>   fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
> ]"


How does that dismiss 'heavy fishing'?  No mention of conger gear there for
eg.


> I think that's pretty dismissive considering a lot of people adopt this 
> technique all over the country.


I agree.  It is dismissive.  I intended it to be because around most of the
UK coastline it is rarely the most effective technique.


> > Quite.  I bet I have more fun though  :-)
> 
> I bet you don't ;-p


Three months to panto season :-)


> > None of you.  Matchfishing is another highly specialised regime which is
> > over reported in the angling press and seriously misleads beginners.
> 
> Match fishing can positively encourage beginners.  Most clubs are founded on 
> match fishing. For that matter most clubs I have ever been in have juniors 
> sections for the youngsters ( beginners ) to compete in.


I made this mistake.  I fished matches for several years.  The brasso was
getting expensive - I still have some of the miniatures but I hide them
rather than polish them.


> > You
> > would almost certainly have caught more if you had not entered the match 
> > in
> > the first place.
> 
> How do you come to that conclusion?


-You- choose the venue, time, and are not constrained by match rules re
bait/technique/duration.
 

> > So now light tackle is to be eschewed because you catch more?
> 
> My point was that the ban was probably introduced to stop people killing 
> several hundreds of pounds of fish that aren't going to get eaten. Not due


Because the (no beachcaster) technique is more effective.
 

> > My original point was?
> 
> Your original point was that distance casting is a specialist technique that 
> only applies to London and the home counties.

> To which I replied "Utter bilge"


IF I had said that you would have been right.  You quoted it (above, I left
it in) go re-read it.

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

In article <432ae6b7.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
<URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:

> <snip>

> > (designed for casting, not fishing) and vastly overgun most of the fish
> > you'll meet.
> 
> Only true for cheap beachcasters.  If you get a decent rod like a Diawa TDXS 
> or a Zziplex it will throw a lead as far as you are able ( we've covered the 
> distance isn't everything bit ) and will still detect a pout fart at 100 
> yds.


So?  It means you have to wind in 100 yards to find out whether you
hooked it.  Overgunned.

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

"Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
news:ant170133313BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...

> In article <432ae6b7.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
> <URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>
>> > (designed for casting, not fishing) and vastly overgun most of the fish
>> > you'll meet.
>>
>> Only true for cheap beachcasters.  If you get a decent rod like a Diawa 
>> TDXS
>> or a Zziplex it will throw a lead as far as you are able ( we've covered 
>> the
>> distance isn't everything bit ) and will still detect a pout fart at 100
>> yds.
>
> So?  It means you have to wind in 100 yards to find out whether you
> hooked it.  Overgunned.


No, it means that a rod that can cast good distances can still have good 
bite detection.  Besides a good angler wouldn't strike when the fish farts, 
only when it bites ;-)



> Cheerio,
>
> -- 
>>> derek.moody@clara.net
> 

>> "[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need 
>> to
>>   consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim 
>> at
>>   extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this 
>> near
>>   London and home counties journalists naturally write about the 
>> conditions
>>   they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
>>   Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without 
>> even
>>   owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
>>   fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
>> ]"
>
> How does that dismiss 'heavy fishing'?  No mention of conger gear there 
> for
> eg.


You called your style light fishing, the opposite would be heavy.


>> I think that's pretty dismissive considering a lot of people adopt this
>> technique all over the country.
>
> I agree.  It is dismissive.  I intended it to be because around most of 
> the
> UK coastline it is rarely the most effective technique.
>
>> > Quite.  I bet I have more fun though  :-)
>>
>> I bet you don't ;-p
>
> Three months to panto season :-)


Oh no it isn't ;-)

<snip>


>> My point was that the ban was probably introduced to stop people killing
>> several hundreds of pounds of fish that aren't going to get eaten. Not 
>> due
>
> Because the (no beachcaster) technique is more effective.


....at catching garfish.


>> > My original point was?
>>
>> Your original point was that distance casting is a specialist technique 
>> that
>> only applies to London and the home counties.
>
>> To which I replied "Utter bilge"
>
> IF I had said that you would have been right.  You quoted it (above, I 
> left
> it in) go re-read it.


My apologies for the mis-interpretation ("only applies to London and the 
home counties") of your quote.

However I still think the definition of 'right' is to keep an open mind to 
all the techniques available, even specialist techinques such as float 
fishing, spinning, fly fishing and plugging ;-)

ETV

"Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
news:ant161442bc8BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...

> In article <432a9049.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
> <URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Derek.Moody"  wrote in message
>> news:ant1408570b0BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...
>
>> > Some would check the weather forecast and put in brownie points at home
>> > until the storm is dropping and the disturbed bait is dropping out of 
>> > the
>> > water column into the gutter...
>>
>> Some of the best fishing is in stormy weather, not to mention to
>> exhilaration of your nostrils being force fed sea air at 40 MPH!  Or 
>> match
>
> I would never suggest a beginner fished in the teeth of a f8 gale.  It's
> risky even for experienced anglers especially in NW Scotland.


Ok my mistake, no one sane fishes in a force 8. My point was that there's 
good fishing to be had in a bracing wind - conditions that warrant a heavier 
approach than float fishing and spinning.


>> fishing for that matter,  if you turn up for a match and it's blowing a
>> hoolie you will stand a better chance oif winning if you can fish the
>> conditions.  Ok, match fishing isn't everything but it's another aspect 
>> of
>> fishing that benefits from a wide range of techniques and tools.
>
> No sane organiser would  continue in such conditions, there will be some
> sort of alternative venue or a postponement.


You're right, they are often turned into 'rovers' if conditions are 
dangerous. But you still have more choices if you can deal with an in your 
face wind.


>
>> The OP actually started the thread by asking a genuine question about
>> casting distances and hasn't necessarily been mislead into anything.  I
>
> It was clear from the question that he had already been misled.


In your opinion.


>
>> think its more misleading to summarily dismiss 'heavy fishing' and coax 
>> the
>
> I don't recall dismissing heavy fishing anywhere in this thread.  Perhaps
> you can remind me where I did so.


"[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
  consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
  extreme range.  It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
  London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
  they experience.  Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
  Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
  owning a conventional beachcaster.  OK, most do use one sometimes when
  fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
]"

I think that's pretty dismissive considering a lot of people adopt this 
technique all over the country.


>> If you predominantly use a fly rod then you are going to catch more fish 
>> on
>> a fly rod. If you always use a beachcaster then you will always catch 
>> fish
>> on a beachcaster.
>
> Quite.  I bet I have more fun though  :-)


I bet you don't ;-p


>
>> I have fished matches where I have been stuffed by anglers using coarse 
>> gear
>> to catch Mullet - I fished for Wrasse with heavy gear and blanked, they 
>> used
>> match rods and weighed in 7 or 8lbs.  I have also fished matches where I
>> have stuffed people using match gear, they caught no Mullet, I caught a 
>> 13lb
>> Conger.  Who was right?
>
> None of you.  Matchfishing is another highly specialised regime which is
> over reported in the angling press and seriously misleads beginners.


Match fishing can positively encourage beginners.  Most clubs are founded on 
match fishing. For that matter most clubs I have ever been in have juniors 
sections for the youngsters ( beginners ) to compete in.


> You
> would almost certainly have caught more if you had not entered the match 
> in
> the first place.


How do you come to that conclusion?


>> > On another local beach (Chesil) organisers took to banning floatfishing
>> > with
>> > groundbait for gar and scad because the same two or three anglers were
>> > winning everything.
>>
>> I have fished these matches on Chesil,  personally I think the ban is a 
>> good
>> thing as often 1st prize would go to 45lbs of Garfish. Thats just 
>> absolute
>> slaughter.  Besides catching garfish after garfish after garfish just 
>> gets
>> plain boring after an hour or two.  I usually fish two rods in these
>
> So now light tackle is to be eschewed because you catch more?


My point was that the ban was probably introduced to stop people killing 
several hundreds of pounds of fish that aren't going to get eaten. Not due 
to sour grapes between some imaginary "Carp Rod" vs "Beachcaster" divide. My 
old club nearly banned dogfish in matches because too many were coming to 
the scales in bin bags.  I said nothing about avoiding light tackle in fact 
if you quoted my whole paragraph you would say that I said I fish both 
styles.


> My original point was?


Your original point was that distance casting is a specialist technique that 
only applies to London and the home counties.

To which I replied "Utter bilge"


> Cheerio,
>
> -- 
>>> derek.moody@clara.net
>


ETV

In article , Clint Sharp
<URL:mailto:clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message , Derek.Moody 
>  writes
> >In article <m$CE9tIWxJKDFwRB@clintsmc.demon.co.uk>, Clint Sharp
> ><URL:mailto:clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Depends how long the barbeque has left to burn. Fastest time from sea to
> >> plate was just a tad under 10 mins which I don't think you could achieve
> >> if you are 'playing' the fish with light tackle.
> >
> >Why is the unhooking, killing, gutting and dropping onto BBQ process faster
> >if the fish is lifted from the water on a 50lb feather snood rather than a
> >6lb bs straight through freeline?
> >
> >Cheerio,
> >
> Because you're not playing the fish for five minutes before you lift it, 
> I suppose I should have said from strike to plate really. It also helps 
> if you have a fully occupied 6 hook set of feathers if you're feeding 
> several people which I think you would have difficulty retrieving on the 
> rig you mention.


I see.

If I ever want to feed a horde on mackerel at short notice I don't rely on
shore fishing.

Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

In article <432a9049.0@entanet>, Eric The Viking
<URL:mailto:etv@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:

> 
> "Derek.Moody"  wrote in message 
> news:ant1408570b0BxcK@half-baked-idea.co.uk...

> > Some would check the weather forecast and put in brownie points at home
> > until the storm is dropping and the disturbed bait is dropping out of the
> > water column into the gutter...
> 
> Some of the best fishing is in stormy weather, not to mention to 
> exhilaration of your nostrils being force fed sea air at 40 MPH!  Or match


I would never suggest a beginner fished in the teeth of a f8 gale.  It's
risky even for experienced anglers especially in NW Scotland.


> fishing for that matter,  if you turn up for a match and it's blowing a 
> hoolie you will stand a better chance oif winning if you can fish the 
> conditions.  Ok, match fishing isn't everything but it's another aspect of 
> fishing that benefits from a wide range of techniques and tools.


No sane organiser would  continue in such conditions, there will be some
sort of alternative venue or a postponement.



> The OP actually started the thread by asking a genuine question about 
> casting distances and hasn't necessarily been mislead into anything.  I 


It was clear from the question that he had already been misled.


> think its more misleading to summarily dismiss 'heavy fishing' and coax the 


I don't recall dismissing heavy fishing anywhere in this thread.  Perhaps
you can remind me where I did so.


> If you predominantly use a fly rod then you are going to catch more fish on 
> a fly rod. If you always use a beachcaster then you will always catch fish 
> on a beachcaster.


Quite.  I bet I have more fun though  :-)


> I have fished matches where I have been stuffed by anglers using coarse gear 
> to catch Mullet - I fished for Wrasse with heavy gear and blanked, they used 
> match rods and weighed in 7 or 8lbs.  I have also fished matches where I 
> have stuffed people using match gear, they caught no Mullet, I caught a 13lb 
> Conger.  Who was right?


None of you.  Matchfishing is another highly specialised regime which is
over reported in the angling press and seriously misleads beginners.  You
would almost certainly have caught more if you had not entered the match in
the first place. 
 

> > On another local beach (Chesil) organisers took to banning floatfishing 
> > with
> > groundbait for gar and scad because the same two or three anglers were
> > winning everything.
> 
> I have fished these matches on Chesil,  personally I think the ban is a good 
> thing as often 1st prize would go to 45lbs of Garfish. Thats just absolute 
> slaughter.  Besides catching garfish after garfish after garfish just gets 
> plain boring after an hour or two.  I usually fish two rods in these


So now light tackle is to be eschewed because you catch more?
My original point was?
 
Cheerio,

-- 

>> derek.moody@clara.net

In message , Derek.Moody 
 writes

>> Because you're not playing the fish for five minutes before you lift it,
>> I suppose I should have said from strike to plate really. It also helps
>> if you have a fully occupied 6 hook set of feathers if you're feeding
>> several people which I think you would have difficulty retrieving on the
>> rig you mention.
>
>I see.
>
>If I ever want to feed a horde on mackerel at short notice I don't rely on
>shore fishing.

A horde would be a different matter, I generally only feed four or five 
but the fish is always very popular. Having said that, when I've gone 
for mackerel for the barbecue, I've never not caught enough to 
generously feed the four or five people who eat the fish and have some 
left over.

>
>Cheerio,
>


-- 
Clint Sharp