One of First ScotRail's Class 318 EMUs has had its end gangways
removed.  There's a picture of it here
http://davids.railway.fotopic.net/p19929756.html

I understand it's going to be done to the whole fleet, which will make
revenue protection on a six-car train a tad more difficult!

FS are also doing a significant interior refurb of the Class 322 EMUs
which have (again) returned from England.  See 

http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/pdfs/332-refurb.pdf

There's going to be an increase of 28 seats per train, plus a
dedicated cycle stowage area.  Seems they're going for 3+2 seating to
replace the 2+2, plus the likely removal of the former First Class
saloon.

Paul Harley

-- 
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"Paul Harley"  wrote in message
news:iin5i1d54g9b02oh2qsremcvi3ski9nute@4ax.com...

> One of First ScotRail's Class 318 EMUs has had its end gangways
> removed.  There's a picture of it here
> http://davids.railway.fotopic.net/p19929756.html
>
> I understand it's going to be done to the whole fleet, which will make
> revenue protection on a six-car train a tad more difficult!
>
> FS are also doing a significant interior refurb of the Class 322 EMUs
> which have (again) returned from England.  See
>
> http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/pdfs/332-refurb.pdf
>
> There's going to be an increase of 28 seats per train, plus a
> dedicated cycle stowage area.  Seems they're going for 3+2 seating to
> replace the 2+2, plus the likely removal of the former First Class
> saloon.


All agreed by NX though - as the sets are only sub-leased with the proviso
that if they are needed by 'one' they can call them back.

TM

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:00:19 +0100, Paul Harley
 wrote:


>I understand it's going to be done to the whole fleet, which will make
>revenue protection on a six-car train a tad more difficult!


One would assume it is for increased driver comfort, though I'd
suggest it is probably (for the reason above) a bad idea nonetheless.

That said, First appear to have it in for gangways, based on their
order for non-gangwayed Desiros for GE when a perfectly good gangwayed
version was available (though was this to do with DOO mirror views?)

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:

> That said, First appear to have it in for gangways, based on their
> order for non-gangwayed Desiros for GE when a perfectly good gangwayed
> version was available (though was this to do with DOO mirror views?)


Yes, They originally wanted the Dessie to have gangways, but had to 
change this because of the DOO equipment there was a mockup of the 360 
done in First livery with the gangway in a mag when they were ordered.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:16:28 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:


>On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:00:19 +0100, Paul Harley
> wrote:
>
>>I understand it's going to be done to the whole fleet, which will make
>>revenue protection on a six-car train a tad more difficult!
>
>One would assume it is for increased driver comfort, though I'd
>suggest it is probably (for the reason above) a bad idea nonetheless.
>
>That said, First appear to have it in for gangways, based on their
>order for non-gangwayed Desiros for GE when a perfectly good gangwayed
>version was available (though was this to do with DOO mirror views?)
>
>Neil


The conductor jumps out of one half of the train and moves to the
other (at a station, obviously).  Maybe this would improve revenue
protection as the neds can only move two coaches away from the
conductor rather than five.  I understand that six coach trains are
only used during peaks (on SPT) and there can be two conductors.

Scott

"Scott"  wrote

>
> The conductor jumps out of one half of the train and moves to the
> other (at a station, obviously).


Obviously? William Kennoway used to make his way along the outside of trains
while they were running between Clachnaharry and Inverness (including over
the Ness Bridge), and collect tickets through the compartment windows. This
was in the 1870s.

Peter

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:33:08, "Peter Masson"
 wrote

>>
>> The conductor jumps out of one half of the train and moves to the
>> other (at a station, obviously).
>
>Obviously? William Kennoway used to make his way along the outside of trains
>while they were running between Clachnaharry and Inverness (including over
>the Ness Bridge), and collect tickets through the compartment windows. This
>was in the 1870s.


The original "desperate gripper"?  ;-)

Paul Harley

-- 
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Scott  wrote in message
4766i1he11hip52frtadgck3uvrghn0ckq@4ax.com

> The conductor jumps out of one half of the train and moves to the
> other (at a station, obviously).  Maybe this would improve revenue
> protection as the neds can only move two coaches away from the
> conductor rather than five.  I understand that six coach trains are
> only used during peaks (on SPT) and there can be two conductors.


There are plenty of off-peak* 6 car services that only have one conductor.

* - being away from the traditional peak period, there are some oddities in 
SPT-land as to when services are busy.

-- 
Ian McMillan
ian@NOSPAMimcmillan.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotrail - Scotland's online railway group
http://www.railpic.co.uk - now updated with regular mobile snapshots

Paul Harley wrote:


>
> FS are also doing a significant interior refurb of the Class 322 EMUs
> which have (again) returned from England.  See
>
> http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/pdfs/332-refurb.pdf
>
> There's going to be an increase of 28 seats per train, plus a
> dedicated cycle stowage area.  Seems they're going for 3+2 seating to
> replace the 2+2, plus the likely removal of the former First Class
> saloon.
>
> Paul Harley
>
> --
> Remove "eeek" to contact me!




Brilliant, now why can't Silverlink do that with their dated looking
321's? First never disappoint if they'd had silverlink both the 313's
and 321's would've looked new by now.

"GreatWesternSean"  wrote in message
news:1126470248.798508.220870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>
> Paul Harley wrote:
>
> >
> > FS are also doing a significant interior refurb of the Class 322 EMUs
> > which have (again) returned from England.  See
> >
> > http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/pdfs/332-refurb.pdf
> >
> > There's going to be an increase of 28 seats per train, plus a
> > dedicated cycle stowage area.  Seems they're going for 3+2 seating to
> > replace the 2+2, plus the likely removal of the former First Class
> > saloon.

> Brilliant, now why can't Silverlink do that with their dated looking
> 321's? First never disappoint if they'd had silverlink both the 313's
> and 321's would've looked new by now.


Its all to do with franchise agreements, agreements with ROSCOs etc. - who
pays, who gets the benefit etc. Don't forget Silverlink is on an extension
to its original franchise and has not commitment to any upgrades to stock.
This is an SRA decision, not a TOC decision.
You'll note that no TOCs will do any upgrade work on stock that is about to
be handed over (unless the SRA is paying for it obviously).

Any work on Silverlink 321s will probably come with the splitting up of
Central and the likely creation of a "West Coast Electrics" local franchise,
covering the West Midlands electrics and Silverlink County. Silverlink Metro
will probably go into a London Metro TOC of some sort. (well that was one
plan!!).
Upgrades/refurbs will be agreed as this is negotiated - unless the bidders
propose new trains of course!

TM

On 11 Sep 2005 13:24:08 -0700, "GreatWesternSean"
 wrote:


>Brilliant, now why can't Silverlink do that with their dated looking
>321's? First never disappoint if they'd had silverlink both the 313's
>and 321's would've looked new by now.


The only difference between the GE 321s and the SS ones is the seat
coverings, and those aren't really *that* badly worn.  The lighting
diffusers do help both, though.

As to what can be done with a PEP-derived EMU you need only look at
Merseyrail - but I suspect the Norf Landan thugs would trash them in a
week or two.  The Merseyrail units didn't look that bad when they'd
been in use for at least 15 years with no refurb bar a set of seat
cushions, door bleepers and emergency release handles. 

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

The Manx Electric Railway grippers used to check tickets by walking
along the external step-boards of the taostrack cars until very
recently; the Achenseebahn in Austria still does so. I also understand
that the Kent and East Sussex conductors used to move between
compartments externally while the train was on the move (at least until
nationalisation and possibly until closure in 1954) - but then there
was only one overbridge/short tunnel on the whole line!

Scott wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:16:28 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
> Williams) wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:00:19 +0100, Paul Harley
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I understand it's going to be done to the whole fleet, which will make
>>>revenue protection on a six-car train a tad more difficult!
>>
>>One would assume it is for increased driver comfort, though I'd
>>suggest it is probably (for the reason above) a bad idea nonetheless.
>>
>>That said, First appear to have it in for gangways, based on their
>>order for non-gangwayed Desiros for GE when a perfectly good gangwayed
>>version was available (though was this to do with DOO mirror views?)
>>
>>Neil
> 
> 
> The conductor jumps out of one half of the train and moves to the
> other (at a station, obviously).  Maybe this would improve revenue
> protection as the neds can only move two coaches away from the
> conductor rather than five.  I understand that six coach trains are
> only used during peaks (on SPT) and there can be two conductors.


Indeed, this method was used on the (not infrequent) ticket checks on 
the EPBs on the North Kent line (no corridors, though open saloons).

Robin

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005, Neil Williams wrote:


> As to what can be done with a PEP-derived EMU you need only look at
> Merseyrail - but I suspect the Norf Landan thugs would trash them in a
> week or two.  The Merseyrail units didn't look that bad when they'd
> been in use for at least 15 years with no refurb bar a set of seat
> cushions, door bleepers and emergency release handles.


Despite the claims often made about Liverpool, I can quite imagine their
trains would last longer than anything in Norf (or Saarf) Landan.

Cheers

Chris
-- 
 Chris Johns