Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
engine.

Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
about
*Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
I anticipate long term ownership with lowest in service costs,
potential mechanical and electrical disasters are at the front of my
mind..

I am considering both options based on cam chain and not belt. Both
have hydraulic tappets.

Would possibly cover 100,00 miles in around 15 years.

Cheers, Mik

Mik  wrote:


> Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
> Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
> engine.
> 
> Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
> about
> *Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
> I anticipate long term ownership with lowest in service costs,
> potential mechanical and electrical disasters are at the front of my
> mind..
> 
> I am considering both options based on cam chain and not belt. Both
> have hydraulic tappets.
> 
> Would possibly cover 100,00 miles in around 15 years.
> 
> Cheers, Mik


Panda, without doubt.

Not much to pick in terms of engines - I'm almost 100% sure both have
cambelts anyway - but the Fiat lump is the most lively. The Panda is
also much more practical, having a proper boot, rear seats and 5 doors.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

Mik wrote:

> Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
> Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
> engine.
> 
> Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
> about
> *Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
> I anticipate long term ownership with lowest in service costs,
> potential mechanical and electrical disasters are at the front of my
> mind..
> 
> I am considering both options based on cam chain and not belt. Both
> have hydraulic tappets.
> 
> Would possibly cover 100,00 miles in around 15 years.
> 


The Multijet's are class leading engines.

Thanks, I accidentally deleted the original post, here it is.

Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
engine.

Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
about
*Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
I anticipate long term ownership with lowest in service costs,
potential mechanical and electrical disasters are at the front of my
mind..

I am considering both options based on cam chain and not belt. Both
have hydraulic tappets.

Would possibly cover 100,00 miles in around 15 years.

Cheers, Mik

Both chains Steve, I checked them out.
Its the high pressure pump on the Diesel that concerns me, if it fails.
Although I prefer Diesel and we run two other cars, both Diesels.
I need a run about though that wont rack up £4,500 in faults ...
This happened in a previous car during warranty and it was so scary to
own outside the warranty period I bottled out and sold it. :)
Is it really worth it anymore with small Diesels ? they seem to be
getting more complicated ( particulate traps next)


Thanks for the comments though.

Mik  wrote:


> Both chains Steve, I checked them out.
> Its the high pressure pump on the Diesel that concerns me, if it fails.
> Although I prefer Diesel and we run two other cars, both Diesels.
> I need a run about though that wont rack up 4,500 in faults ...
> This happened in a previous car during warranty and it was so scary to
> own outside the warranty period I bottled out and sold it. :)
> Is it really worth it anymore with small Diesels ? they seem to be
> getting more complicated ( particulate traps next)
> 
> 
> Thanks for the comments though.


Ahhh, yes. Odd, I didn't realise the Multijets had swapped over to a
chain.

Fiat diesel lumps have a very good record for reliability - the 1.3
Multijet is just about the best small diesel out there - so much so GM
buy it.

I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built than
any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.

-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:

> 
> I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built than
> any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.
> 


And can be chipped to be about 100bhp?

That's a lot for a small car.

"T."  wrote in message 
news:4321f662$0$18200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...

> SteveH wrote:
>>
>> I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built than
>> any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.
>>
>
> And can be chipped to be about 100bhp?


Why would you want to do that?
Why not buy a 100bhp in the first place?.
Why not add some neon lights under the floor aswell?.

On 9 Sep 2005 12:26:17 -0700, "Mik" 
wrote:


>Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
>about
>*Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.


Well, obviously, Italian engineering is renowned for its durability
and quality whereas the Japs are clueless...  
-- 
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

"Matt"  wrote in message 
news:JPmUe.14800$k22.10610@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "T."  wrote in message 
> news:4321f662$0$18200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> SteveH wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built than
>>> any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.
>>>
>>
>> And can be chipped to be about 100bhp?
>
> Why would you want to do that?


It would be faster.


> Why not buy a 100bhp in the first place?.


It would have a greater mark up.


> Why not add some neon lights under the floor aswell?.


Now you're just being stupid.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"Mik"  wrote in message 
news:1126292627.785743.64150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
> Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
> engine.
>
> Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
> about
> *Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.


Now don't get me wrong, I rate the 1.3 Multijet very highly and the Panda 
has a good reputation, but it's a newer engine for the UK and not as well 
proven as that little 1.0 VVTi donk.


> I anticipate long term ownership with lowest in service costs,
> potential mechanical and electrical disasters are at the front of my
> mind..


This may be as much down to the owner, driver as much as the donk.  Follow 
regular servicing on both and you ought not to see issue.


> I am considering both options based on cam chain and not belt. Both
> have hydraulic tappets.
>
> Would possibly cover 100,00 miles in around 15 years.


Barely run in, then.

Either should prove good enough.  You might want to make the assumption that 
both will work just fine providing you look after them, now consider the 
dealership.

A poor dealer will ruin a good car.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan  wrote:


> "Matt"  wrote in message 
> news:JPmUe.14800$k22.10610@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "T."  wrote in message 
> > news:4321f662$0$18200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> >> SteveH wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built than
> >>> any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.
> >>>
> >>
> >> And can be chipped to be about 100bhp?
> >
> > Why would you want to do that?
> 
> It would be faster.
> 
> > Why not buy a 100bhp in the first place?.
> 
> It would have a greater mark up.


I was thinking about this.

You can't get a 100bhp diesel Panda (unfortunately.... I reckon the 1.9
Multijet would drop in, though), and there's nothing else in the class
that even runs it close, so the only option is a chip.


-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

DervMan  wrote:


> "Mik"  wrote in message 
> news:1126292627.785743.64150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
> > Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
> > engine.
> >
> > Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
> > about
> > *Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I rate the 1.3 Multijet very highly and the Panda
> has a good reputation, but it's a newer engine for the UK and not as well
> proven as that little 1.0 VVTi donk.


It's a development of the JTD lumps, so I can't see why anything would
go wrong with it.

The camchain caught me out, though, given that JTDs had a belt.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

I don`t need chipping as I have power and speed in another car.

It seems no one is aware of any inherent faults in the design of these
engines (or other systems) that could increase the possibility of
failure then?

Both Galvanised
Toyota has 12 year perforation warranty, Fiat 8 years.
Not sure if  the difference would be an issue........
Cannot avoid ABS now on new cars :( more complication.
I wonder which would be best in the long run, Toyota petrol or Fiat
diesel?
Going away for a few days, Thanks for the comments, Mik

SteveH wrote:

> 
> Mik  wrote:
> 
> > Both chains Steve, I checked them out.
> > Its the high pressure pump on the Diesel that concerns me, if it fails.
> > Although I prefer Diesel and we run two other cars, both Diesels.
> > I need a run about though that wont rack up 4,500 in faults ...
> > This happened in a previous car during warranty and it was so scary to
> > own outside the warranty period I bottled out and sold it. :)
> > Is it really worth it anymore with small Diesels ? they seem to be
> > getting more complicated ( particulate traps next)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the comments though.
> 
> Ahhh, yes. Odd, I didn't realise the Multijets had swapped over to a
> chain.
> 
> Fiat diesel lumps have a very good record for reliability - the 1.3
> Multijet is just about the best small diesel out there - so much so GM
> buy it.


Yes, Fiat's diesels have found their way into other cars, even Saab!

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1h2n9hy.1e4l19fue8779N%steve@italiancar.co.uk...

> DervMan  wrote:
>
>> "Matt"  wrote in message
>> news:JPmUe.14800$k22.10610@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >
>> > "T."  wrote in message
>> > news:4321f662$0$18200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> >> SteveH wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm a big fan of the new Panda - it's as well, if not better built 
>> >>> than
>> >>> any other small car, and the diesel engine will do way over 50mpg.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> And can be chipped to be about 100bhp?
>> >
>> > Why would you want to do that?
>>
>> It would be faster.
>>
>> > Why not buy a 100bhp in the first place?.
>>
>> It would have a greater mark up.
>
> I was thinking about this.
>
> You can't get a 100bhp diesel Panda (unfortunately.... I reckon the 1.9
> Multijet would drop in, though), and there's nothing else in the class
> that even runs it close, so the only option is a chip.



Superlightweight wheels and semi-slick tyres, reduce the flywheel weight and 
fit a larger intercooler - there's some of the way towards 100 bhp Panda 
performance.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1h2n9lc.kzz3fr629e17N%steve@italiancar.co.uk...

> DervMan  wrote:
>
>> "Mik"  wrote in message
>> news:1126292627.785743.64150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > Can`t decide whether to get a Fiat Panda (1.3 multijet)
>> > Or Toyota Aygo (or citroen C1, Peugeot 107) with the 1 litre petrol
>> > engine.
>> >
>> > Question is not about driving experience or fuel consumption but more
>> > about
>> > *Best Engine* and other modern electrical complications.
>>
>> Now don't get me wrong, I rate the 1.3 Multijet very highly and the Panda
>> has a good reputation, but it's a newer engine for the UK and not as well
>> proven as that little 1.0 VVTi donk.
>
> It's a development of the JTD lumps, so I can't see why anything would
> go wrong with it.


Yup, me neither and they've sold millions in Europe.  But at the back of my 
mind...


> The camchain caught me out, though, given that JTDs had a belt.


Chains rule.  See, I told you the Endura-E would come back into fashion! :)

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

Johannes wrote:

>>>
>>>Thanks for the comments though.
>>
>>Ahhh, yes. Odd, I didn't realise the Multijets had swapped over to a
>>chain.
>>
>>Fiat diesel lumps have a very good record for reliability - the 1.3
>>Multijet is just about the best small diesel out there - so much so GM
>>buy it.
> 
> 
> Yes, Fiat's diesels have found their way into other cars, even Saab!


I'd probably get the Suzuki Swift diesel though - same engine.