In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines more prone
to crack if they are wide?

Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
visa versa, grout lines?

-- 
||||||||||||||||     Nehmo Sergheyev     ||||||||||||||||

Nehmo wrote:

> In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines more prone
> to crack if they are wide?
> 
> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
> visa versa, grout lines?
> 


Depends upon what grout you use in conjuction with the width of the 
joint, as well as various other structural and substrate criteria...

Nehmo wrote:

> In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines more prone
> to crack if they are wide?

yes.



>
> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
> visa versa, grout lines?



grout is harder to clean than tile. the less grout showing, the easier
cleanup will be.

wrote in message 
news:1126210702.086825.277650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
> Nehmo wrote:
>> In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines 
>> more prone
>> to crack if they are wide?
>
> yes.
>
>
>
>>
>> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow 
>> over wide, or
>> visa versa, grout lines?
>
>
> grout is harder to clean than tile. the less grout showing, 
> the easier
> cleanup will be.



You need enough grout width for it to create a strong 
joint...too thin and its weak, cracks out and leaks water.

Phil Scott


> 

It also depends on tile size. A larger tile or tile whose width varies
slightly (hand made etc) needs a wider grout line. For example, if you
have a 12" or 18" tile with 1/16" grout line it does give much room to
adjust your grout lines or to compensate for width variations.

Nehmo writes:


> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
> visa versa, grout lines?


The only purpose of grout lines is to take up and fit the irregularities of 
tile size, floor flatness, and installer skill.  The smaller the better.  
The grout itself is an inferior flooring material, and the less of it, the 
better.

Grout requires the use of water to form a bond and water is of course H2O. 
It is the presence of hydrogen that functions as the catalyst for the 
chemical reaction the forms the bond. Too much water; cracked grout. Too 
little water; cracked grout. Too wide of a grout line; cracked grout. 
Control of the hydrogen bonding process is easily compromised.

It helps to go to college and learn physics but it can be much less 
expensive if you simply read and follow the manufacturer's specifications 
and use the grout recommended for your design requirements.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
         METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
         NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
         URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
         URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/


"G Henslee"  wrote in message 
news:3obi7oF57k2cU2@individual.net...

> Nehmo wrote:
>> In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines more prone
>> to crack if they are wide?
>>
>> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
>> visa versa, grout lines?
>>
>
> Depends upon what grout you use in conjuction with the width of the joint, 
> as well as various other structural and substrate criteria... 

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:33:50 +0000, Nehmo wrote:


> In tile, stone floor tile, for example, are the grout lines more prone
> to crack if they are wide?


Grout width is a personal/aesthetic thing.  If the floor is going to flex
enough to the grout to crack, the tile will eventually too.  With 12" tile
I like a 1/4" grout line.  I'm doing a bunch now, in fact.


> Other than aesthetics, is there any advantage of narrow over wide, or
> visa versa, grout lines?


Not really, though it *may* be easier down the line to cut wider grout out
to replace it.  I wouldn't consider this to be a magor advantage though. 
The big thing is to make sure the substrate that you're mounting the tile
to is stiff enough.

--   
  Keith

If the floor is going to flex
enough to the grout to crack, the tile will eventually too.  With 12"
tile
I like a 1/4" grout line.  I'm doing a bunch now, in fact.
snip

In the areas with tile, will have 3/4" T&G exterior grade plywood,
glued and screwed down to manufactured joists consisting of 2x4
connected with a metal web with web being 12" high.  In the areas with
tile - will attach 3/4" OSB UNDER the 3/4" plywood with screws and glue
to reinforce the floor to keep it from flexing under the tile.  Is the
latter necessary - will a 24" span between manufactured web joists flex
too much.  Don't want to go to the expense of putting down a double
thickness of decking everywhere.  Maybe simpler -easier but it would
cost a lot more.

Thanks

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:57:25 -0700, butch burton wrote:


> If the floor is going to flex
> enough to the grout to crack, the tile will eventually too.  With 12"
> tile
> I like a 1/4" grout line.  I'm doing a bunch now, in fact.
> snip
> 
> In the areas with tile, will have 3/4" T&G exterior grade plywood,
> glued and screwed down to manufactured joists consisting of 2x4
> connected with a metal web with web being 12" high.  In the areas with
> tile - will attach 3/4" OSB UNDER the 3/4" plywood with screws and glue
> to reinforce the floor to keep it from flexing under the tile.  Is the
> latter necessary - will a 24" span between manufactured web joists flex
> too much.  Don't want to go to the expense of putting down a double
> thickness of decking everywhere.  Maybe simpler -easier but it would
> cost a lot more.


Disclaimer:  I'm a homeowner, not a pro...

I think that may flex too much.  The specs for tile call for
at least 1-1/4" subfloor (on 16" joist centers, I think).  My house has
3/4" plywood over 2x8's 16" O.C.  Where I tile, I add 1/2" Hardi-Backer
across the beams (not aligned with the ply).  That is put down in thinset
and screwed every 8".  I also use the thinset that's designed to allow a
little flex (FlexBond is the brand name, IIRC) for mounting the tile. It's
expensive, but not nearly as much as a cracked tile.  I also shimmed and
glued under the subfloor, where possible, to try to eliminate any movement
I could.  

My downstairs bathroom and laundry seem to be OK after a year.  I'm now
doing the foyer coat-closet and upstairs 1/2 bath.  Finished the
harti-backer yesterday and cut all the tiles (toilet is a PITA). Today is
tile day. Fun, fun, fun. ;-)

-- 
  Keith

- keith -

> I'm now doing ...upstairs 1/2 bath.  Finished the
> harti-backer yesterday and cut all the tiles (toilet is a PITA).


- Nehmo -
Why would cutting for the toilet be hard? You removed the toilet, didn't
you?

-- 
||||||||||||||||     Nehmo Sergheyev     ||||||||||||||||

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:09:40 +0000, Nehmo wrote:


> - keith -
>> I'm now doing ...upstairs 1/2 bath.  Finished the
>> harti-backer yesterday and cut all the tiles (toilet is a PITA).
> 
> - Nehmo -
> Why would cutting for the toilet be hard? You removed the toilet, didn't
> you?


Of course!  It's still sitting next to the computer. ;-)

It sounds like you've been here, so I hope I don't seem like a fool,
but floor tile is *HARD*.  I had no problem cuttign a 4" hole in wall tile
for a dryer vent in the laundry with a RotoZip, circle cutter, and carbide
bit.  The floor tile just laughed at that setup (and the carbide bit got
quite embarrased). 

So...  The only way I managed to cut the holes for the toilets (this is
the second of three bathrooms) was the "death of a thousand cuts", with
the wet saw and nippers.  At least the upstairs bathroom hole went through
four tiles. The downstairs was 90% in one tile.  While this isn't
impossible, it is a PITA.

-- 
  Keith

keith wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:09:40 +0000, Nehmo wrote:
>
> > - keith -
> >> I'm now doing ...upstairs 1/2 bath.  Finished the
> >> harti-backer yesterday and cut all the tiles (toilet is a PITA).
> >
> > - Nehmo -
> > Why would cutting for the toilet be hard? You removed the toilet, didn't
> > you?
>
> Of course!  It's still sitting next to the computer. ;-)
>
> It sounds like you've been here, so I hope I don't seem like a fool,
> but floor tile is *HARD*.  I had no problem cuttign a 4" hole in wall tile
> for a dryer vent in the laundry with a RotoZip, circle cutter, and carbide
> bit.  The floor tile just laughed at that setup (and the carbide bit got
> quite embarrased).
>
> So...  The only way I managed to cut the holes for the toilets (this is
> the second of three bathrooms) was the "death of a thousand cuts", with
> the wet saw and nippers.  At least the upstairs bathroom hole went through
> four tiles. The downstairs was 90% in one tile.  While this isn't
> impossible, it is a PITA.


You could bring a difficult piece like that to a stained glass place.
They have diamond bandsaws with extremely thin blades.  They can do
scroll work in the tile if you'd like.  They might charge you $20, but
it's worth it if you don't have the tools or inclination to do it other
ways.

R

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:45:52 -0700, RicodJour wrote:


> keith wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:09:40 +0000, Nehmo wrote:
>>
>> > - keith -
>> >> I'm now doing ...upstairs 1/2 bath.  Finished the
>> >> harti-backer yesterday and cut all the tiles (toilet is a PITA).
>> >
>> > - Nehmo -
>> > Why would cutting for the toilet be hard? You removed the toilet, didn't
>> > you?
>>
>> Of course!  It's still sitting next to the computer. ;-)
>>
>> It sounds like you've been here, so I hope I don't seem like a fool,
>> but floor tile is *HARD*.  I had no problem cuttign a 4" hole in wall tile
>> for a dryer vent in the laundry with a RotoZip, circle cutter, and carbide
>> bit.  The floor tile just laughed at that setup (and the carbide bit got
>> quite embarrased).
>>
>> So...  The only way I managed to cut the holes for the toilets (this is
>> the second of three bathrooms) was the "death of a thousand cuts", with
>> the wet saw and nippers.  At least the upstairs bathroom hole went through
>> four tiles. The downstairs was 90% in one tile.  While this isn't
>> impossible, it is a PITA.
> 
> You could bring a difficult piece like that to a stained glass place.
> They have diamond bandsaws with extremely thin blades.  They can do
> scroll work in the tile if you'd like.  They might charge you $20, but
> it's worth it if you don't have the tools or inclination to do it other
> ways.


<slap!> I never thought of that!  $20 might be worth it, though accuracy
isn't all that important in this application.  I'll keep that in mind
though!  I have one more to go, perhaps next spring after the thaw. ;-)

--

  Keith