I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only 
trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression. I've hadd a 
notion for an Accord Tourer and really like it in red but am worried that 
the colour may bloom again, should i play safe and go metallic? Are paints 
any better nowadays.

Thanks for any comments.

Ed  wrote:


> I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only
> trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression. I've hadd a
> notion for an Accord Tourer and really like it in red but am worried that
> the colour may bloom again, should i play safe and go metallic? Are paints
> any better nowadays.


Yes, they're better these days.

However, red, yellow, and to some extent, white cars will always need
waxing more often to protect the finish.


-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:

> Ed  wrote:
>
> > I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only
> > trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression. I've hadd a
> > notion for an Accord Tourer and really like it in red but am worried that
> > the colour may bloom again, should i play safe and go metallic? Are paints
> > any better nowadays.
>
> Yes, they're better these days.
>
> However, red, yellow, and to some extent, white cars will always need
> waxing more often to protect the finish.


Argh!  I want a yellow car.  I saw a yellow Pug 107 a few days ago, it
looked great, and it even smiles* at you!

*(It's the car that smiles, not the paint)

xpetermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com wrote:

> SteveH wrote:

> Argh!  I want a yellow car.  I saw a yellow Pug 107 a few days ago, it
> looked great, and it even smiles* at you!
>
> *(It's the car that smiles, not the paint)


Heh - get a yellow 407 and it'll look like some kind of jaundiced toothless 
evil grin.

-- 
re-configure the solar matrix in parallel for endothermic propulsion

In message <dfnhkb$22g$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
          "Ed"  wrote:


>I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only 
>trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression. I've hadd a 
>notion for an Accord Tourer and really like it in red but am worried that 
>the colour may bloom again, should i play safe and go metallic? Are paints 
>any better nowadays.
>
>Thanks for any comments. 
>
>

The fading problem is actually the pigment not holding up to UV light.
Cheap red pigments tend to lack this ability particulary when compared
to early century pigments that did hold up to UV light far better than
certain modern equivalents.

Some pigments reflect light better than others, reds and yellows for
example can appear less opaque allowing UV light to penetrate right
through to the undercoat or primer causing colour loss, fading or
chalkiness.

It is unlikely that car manufacturers will use expensive pigments on
such large scale modern assembly line painting.

It's a bit of lottery whether your cars paintwork will hold up to the
persistent battering of light that will sooner than later break down the
pigment barrier especially red.

Steve.



-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

The message 
from Stephen Hull  contains these words:


> Some pigments reflect light better than others, reds and yellows for
> example can appear less opaque allowing UV light to penetrate right
> through to the undercoat or primer causing colour loss, fading or
> chalkiness.


The main reason reds fade so badly compared to blue is that they have to
absorb the shorter more energetic wavelengths in order to look red. The
blue end of the spectrum is far more damaging than the red end. Blue
paints, obviously, reflect the blue light and only absorb the red end.

-- 
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

> I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only
> trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression.


The solid red colours do seem to be the worst for this. The number of 10
year old red cars that have gone completely matt is amazing. You don't seem
to notice anywhere near as frequently with other colours.

You can often restore it with a decent paint cut, though.

Generally speaking, though, a non-classic car always looks better in
metallic. I wouldn't dream of buying a non-metallic car these days. They
look better, and last better, too. It is much harder to sell a solid
coloured car.

Christian.

In message 
          Guy King  wrote:


>The message 
>from Stephen Hull  contains these words:
>
>> Some pigments reflect light better than others, reds and yellows for
>> example can appear less opaque allowing UV light to penetrate right
>> through to the undercoat or primer causing colour loss, fading or
>> chalkiness.
>
>The main reason reds fade so badly compared to blue is that they have to
>absorb the shorter more energetic wavelengths in order to look red. The
>blue end of the spectrum is far more damaging than the red end. Blue
>paints, obviously, reflect the blue light and only absorb the red end.
>

Red has a lower permanence than other colours, better quality permanence
reds are in a different price range because light fast red pigments are
generally more expensive to produce.  

Indeed some red pigments allow lightwaves to pass through them and
these will require more pigment or paint build up to reach the required
level of colour depth to reflect back the light. 
Some red colours are obtained by using dyes upon a base as opposed to
using a red pigment in the paint.

Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

The message 
from Stephen Hull  contains these words:


> Some red colours are obtained by using dyes upon a base as opposed to
> using a red pigment in the paint.


Something still has to absorb the blue light for it to appear red - and
that blue end of the spectrum is far more energetic and damaging.

-- 
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

In message 
          Guy King  wrote:


>The message 
>from Stephen Hull  contains these words:
>
>> Some red colours are obtained by using dyes upon a base as opposed to
>> using a red pigment in the paint.
>
>Something still has to absorb the blue light for it to appear red - and
>that blue end of the spectrum is far more energetic and damaging.
>

When we look at red we see it as a red and thats because the other
colours are being absorbed except the red component which is reflected
back, The other component colours are described as white light. 
Passing white light through a prism will produce component colours and
when it hits red paint all the component colours are absorbed except
the red which is reflected back.

Red fades when a change in its original chemical structure alters and
this can be caused when the balance of absorbed or reflected light
changes.  
Some paint pigments are prone to fading with age some are not.

I don't know much about the colour spectrum or energetic light but I do
know that light can degrade an organic pigment which results in colour
fading.

Steve.


-- 
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

The message 
from Stephen Hull  contains these words:


> I don't know much about the colour spectrum or energetic light but I do
> know that light can degrade an organic pigment which results in colour
> fading.


Quite right. And in general the fading is caused by chemical breakdown
caused by incoming light. The more damaging end of the spectrum is the
blue end which is why red paint fades faster.

Look in the bottom of a hedge or at old posters that've been in the sun
and you'll see that the litter and the poster are predominantly bluish.

-- 
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

Went for metallic grey. Looks good but i have still got a sneaking 
preference for the red...never mind. Thanks to allrepondents.

Ed
"Ed"  wrote in message 
news:dfnhkb$22g$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>I had an 88 Golf GTI which i adored, Tornado Red was the colour, the only 
>trouble is that the paint 'matted' or bloomed is the expression. I've hadd 
>a notion for an Accord Tourer and really like it in red but am worried that 
>the colour may bloom again, should i play safe and go metallic? Are paints 
>any better nowadays.
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>