Disruption this morning between Birmingham International and New Street
- apparently there has been an arson attack on, well, I was told "The
signal box at Marsten Green". Given there is no signal box at Marston
Green, I can only assume it was an REB that was torched. (Too many
signals out foir it to have been just a LOC). Chatting to a couple of
Virgin trains staff soon after, apparently it was another 'strategic
hit' - similar to the many instances of Vandalism that we saw over the
autumn/winter months of last year. The £50,000 reward for the capture
of the railway vandal  is still available. It was apparently too good a
choice and done too well (as before) for it to be idiots, and shows the
"knew exactly what they were doing" trait again.

I was on one of the first trains moving again. The driver was
handsignalled past the signal off the platform at International, then
didn't stop at any further signals until Stechford. They were all red
(except one on a single yellow), and I could hear the driver sounding
the required long blast on the horn as we passed each signal, but there
were no handsignallers at any of them, and we passed all af them
without slowing too much. Thus, it was either a very long section being
operated as 'one train in section', or it was being operated as 'drive
on sight'. He was going slowly enough for it to be drive on sight, but
I would be very surprised if it had been. Does anyone know which it
was?

Phil

WOuld have been Temporary Block Working

What the hell is drive on sight???? Thats called car driving....... and 
thats where you get all the people killed in transport usually !!!!

Signed
A Train Driver

"Phil Holbourn"  wrote in message 
news:1126175515.547504.296670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Disruption this morning between Birmingham International and New Street
- apparently there has been an arson attack on, well, I was told "The
signal box at Marsten Green". Given there is no signal box at Marston
Green, I can only assume it was an REB that was torched. (Too many
signals out foir it to have been just a LOC). Chatting to a couple of
Virgin trains staff soon after, apparently it was another 'strategic
hit' - similar to the many instances of Vandalism that we saw over the
autumn/winter months of last year. The 50,000 reward for the capture
of the railway vandal  is still available. It was apparently too good a
choice and done too well (as before) for it to be idiots, and shows the
"knew exactly what they were doing" trait again.

I was on one of the first trains moving again. The driver was
handsignalled past the signal off the platform at International, then
didn't stop at any further signals until Stechford. They were all red
(except one on a single yellow), and I could hear the driver sounding
the required long blast on the horn as we passed each signal, but there
were no handsignallers at any of them, and we passed all af them
without slowing too much. Thus, it was either a very long section being
operated as 'one train in section', or it was being operated as 'drive
on sight'. He was going slowly enough for it to be drive on sight, but
I would be very surprised if it had been. Does anyone know which it
was?

Phil

Phil Holbourn wrote:

> Disruption this morning between Birmingham International and New Street


Can't help with your questions, but I do have a question of my own to
add (hey, this /is/ Usenet!) - how have problems at Birmingham
International managed to affect the service between Euston and
Manchester Picc? According to the NRES website, the Piccadilly service
has been cut back to hourly, yet it doesn't go anywhere near what I
understand to be the affected area.
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

M Hutchins wrote:

> WOuld have been Temporary Block Working
> 
> What the hell is drive on sight???? Thats called car driving....... and 
> thats where you get all the people killed in transport usually !!!!
> 


And what some other railways use during signal failures, to get
traffic moving again. Perhaps they trust their drivers
to keep their speed down to a safe level.

Charlie

M Hutchins wrote:

> WOuld have been Temporary Block Working
>
> What the hell is drive on sight???? Thats called car driving....... and
> thats where you get all the people killed in transport usually !!!!
>
> Signed
> A Train Driver


Or tram/light rail driving. I wondered if a sudden attack of sanity had
come over the railway to get things moving again. Evidently not. As I
said, he was driving slowly.

Please let me know how trams kill all their passengers when they drive
through crowded streets etc, using 'drive on sight' working. I'd love
to to see some examples of what you claim will get "all the people
killed in transport".

Phil

What does LOC stand for?

Gee-Bee wrote:

> What does LOC stand for?


Sorry!

LOC is a Location cabinet - the small cabinets by the side of the track
with relays, power supplies and such like inside. I don't think
(although I stand to be corrected) that LOC actually stands for
anything - It's just LOCation cabinet.

Also, an REB stands for "Relocatable Electrical Building" - almost a
metal hut or  container - think freight wagons for an idea of the size.
These contain bigger electical supplies, interlockings, more
complicated relays, junction boxes etc.

HTH!

Phil

Trams are nothing more than a bus on a pre-determined route...

Car driving is a prime example of a form of transport that regularly kills 
people - only today on teletext they report 10 people have been killed in 
accidents....

How do you think that would be reported if a train had killed 10 people in a 
crash today????

Lets assume cars haven't been invented....

Along comes Mr Ford and says - ok i have invented this vehicle..... but it 
will kill people with clockwork regularity... what do you think the chance 
would be of the authorities letting it come to market...

The car is such a revenue earner for governments and big business around the 
world that the cost per life equation so often mooted in the rail industry 
just doesn't apply (Same could be said for cigarettes or even alcohol)
If it generates income it seems to be deemed ok



> Please let me know how trams kill all their passengers when they drive
> through crowded streets etc, using 'drive on sight' working. I'd love
> to to see some examples of what you claim will get "all the people
> killed in transport".
>
> Phil
> 

"M Hutchins"  wrote in message 
news:43204b8a@212.67.96.135...

>
> Trams are nothing more than a bus on a pre-determined route...
>

Rubbish. You obviously have never been on one.

Peter Fox

Pat Ricroft wrote:

> Can't help with your questions, but I do have a question of my own to
> add (hey, this /is/ Usenet!) - how have problems at Birmingham
> International managed to affect the service between Euston and
> Manchester Picc? According to the NRES website, the Piccadilly service
> has been cut back to hourly, yet it doesn't go anywhere near what I
> understand to be the affected area.


Shortage of/misplaced Pendolinos due to them being held up int the
Birmingham area?

peter

In message <dfpptj$hnf$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at 
16:46:43 on Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Peter Fox  
remarked:

>> Trams are nothing more than a bus on a pre-determined route...
>>
>Rubbish. You obviously have never been on one.


I am very familiar with the Nottingham trams. They don't appear to have 
any signalling of their own, just the normal traffic lights when they 
encounter a crossroads. The drivers make what progress they can, 
avoiding hitting cars and pedestrians who get in their way. There's no 
specific mechanism I can see to stop them running into the tram in 
front, should they catch it up, other than setting off at (approx) six 
minute intervals and keeping a lookout.
-- 
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry"  wrote >

>
> I am very familiar with the Nottingham trams. They don't appear to have
> any signalling of their own, just the normal traffic lights when they
> encounter a crossroads. The drivers make what progress they can,
> avoiding hitting cars and pedestrians who get in their way. There's no
> specific mechanism I can see to stop them running into the tram in
> front, should they catch it up, other than setting off at (approx) six
> minute intervals and keeping a lookout.


Croydon Tramlink have signals at junctions and level crossings - a
horizontal row of white lights means stop, and a vertical column of white
lights means proceed, while there are direction indicators at diverging
junctions, but no block working as such.

Is there any remaining Permissive Block working on National Rail? In the
past this was not uncommon on non-passenger lines. For example, until the
1967 resignalling the Up and Down Engine and Carriage Lines between
Paddington and Old Oak Common were worked by Permissive Block. At times a
queue of empty stock trains would be almost buffered up waiting to get into
a platform. The speed restriction on these lines was 15 mph, reduced to 4
mph in fog or falling snow.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

>
> Is there any remaining Permissive Block working on National Rail?


Loads of it, but mostly for goods trains. Permissive working for
passenger trains is only ever authorised on platform lines (some of
them, /not/ all of them). Even then it's often limited to specific
circumstances like attaching/detaching vehicles, or "periods of
significant service disruption".

The best example I can think of just now is the goods lines round the
back of Reading station. Permissive working is authorised here (for
goods trains, obviously), over a fair old distance. I make it nearly
two miles from the station to Scours Lane. But I'm sure someone will
soon come up with a longer example!

For a full explanation, have a look at the Track Circuit Block
Regulations, available as a pdf file at
<http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare/dsweb/Get/Rail-7629/Ts2.pdf>
(section 3.4).
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

On 9 Sep 2005 02:25:37, "Pat Ricroft"  wrote:

>>
>> Is there any remaining Permissive Block working on National Rail?
>
>Loads of it, but mostly for goods trains. Permissive working for
>passenger trains is only ever authorised on platform lines (some of
>them, /not/ all of them). Even then it's often limited to specific
>circumstances like attaching/detaching vehicles, or "periods of
>significant service disruption".


Quite a lot of it goes on at Cardiff Central, principally due to lack
of platform capacity.

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

"Paul Harley"  wrote in message
news:bsb4i1he9atssuqb98qea5phjsqi9cdl9s@4ax.com...

> On 9 Sep 2005 02:25:37, "Pat Ricroft"  wrote:
> >>
> >> Is there any remaining Permissive Block working on National Rail?
> >
> >Loads of it, but mostly for goods trains. Permissive working for
> >passenger trains is only ever authorised on platform lines (some of
> >them, /not/ all of them). Even then it's often limited to specific
> >circumstances like attaching/detaching vehicles, or "periods of
> >significant service disruption".
>
> Quite a lot of it goes on at Cardiff Central, principally due to lack
> of platform capacity.
>

I realise that any distinction becomes blurred with modern signalling, but
AIUI there was a distinction between Permissive Working, within station
limits, which would apply to attaching/detaching vehicles, accommodating two
trains in the same platfrom, etc, and Permissive Block Working between
signalboxes, on a 'we counted them all in, and we counted them all out'
basis. The latter was certainly the situation pre-1967 on the Engine &
Carriage Lines between Paddington and Old Oak Common.

Peter