Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
Buyers beware!

Simon Reading wrote:

> Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
> discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
> both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
> national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
> ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
> Buyers beware!



I've just been through Virgin Trains own website and they aren't
applying the discounts either. If i phoned, i assume the prices would
reduce considerably? I never knew you could get discounted virgin value
fares, as i thought they had the same restrictions as an Apex return,
prohibiting any discounts.

The software the websites use to get the fares have probably not been
programmed to give a discount yet

The same happend with the GNER Advance 4 and all the MML fares


GreatWesternSean wrote:

> Simon Reading wrote:
> > Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
> > discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
> > both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
> > national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
> > ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
> > Buyers beware!
>
>
> I've just been through Virgin Trains own website and they aren't
> applying the discounts either. If i phoned, i assume the prices would
> reduce considerably? I never knew you could get discounted virgin value
> fares, as i thought they had the same restrictions as an Apex return,
> prohibiting any discounts.

Smart Alec wrote:

> The software the websites use to get the fares have probably not been
> programmed to give a discount yet
> 
> The same happend with the GNER Advance 4 and all the MML fares
> 
> 
> GreatWesternSean wrote:
> 
>>Simon Reading wrote:
>>
>>>Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
>>>discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
>>>both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
>>>national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
>>>ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
>>>Buyers beware!
>>
>>
>>I've just been through Virgin Trains own website and they aren't
>>applying the discounts either. If i phoned, i assume the prices would
>>reduce considerably? I never knew you could get discounted virgin value
>>fares, as i thought they had the same restrictions as an Apex return,
>>prohibiting any discounts.
> 
> 

its always had the discount so either they know something we don't or 
they have messed uptheir software

-- 
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I have now received the following from National Rail:
'Thank you for your email.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
This has now been logged as a fault.
One again we apologise, and thank you for taking the time to contact
us.
Regards,
Customer Services Team
National Rail Enquiries Online'

which is all very well - except I have overpaid, as have many others I
imagine, and getting a refund is not going to be easy.
The response to my email was very quick - but I wonder how long it will
take to fix.

Its a stupid software fault, I know that the software they use on the
journey planners(including the call centres) is not functioning
properly since it was 'patched' at the backend of last month. They aint
giving discounts on some fares and give group save discounts on ALL
operators (Yeah, as if)

I bet if you went down the station where they use a different system
they would book it with a discount

Please remember Virgin don't give AP railcard discounts on fares less
than £10 though

"Simon Reading"  wrote in message 
news:1126098573.326374.309330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
> discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
> both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
> national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
> ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
> Buyers beware!
>



According to Barry Doe, Rail Mag's Fare Dealer, Virgin has separate cheap 
ticket quotas per train for 'full fare' passengers and railcard holders. His 
article on page 53 of the current issue is worth a read.

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:03:02 +0000 (UTC), "Ivor Sleeper"
 wrote:


>According to Barry Doe, Rail Mag's Fare Dealer, Virgin has separate cheap 
>ticket quotas per train for 'full fare' passengers and railcard holders. His 
>article on page 53 of the current issue is worth a read. 


Interesting, as that could mean that the matrix doesn't offer the
cheapest ticket if a Railcard is entered and those quotas are booked
up but not the non-Railcard ones.  The only workaround would appear to
be to have a Railcard-only set of ticket types.

I wonder if that's one to take up with ATOC or the RPC?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Simon Reading wrote:

> Neither the National Rail or Trainline websites are applying railcard
> discount to the new Virgin Value Advance ticket types. This is despite
> both sites displaying under Ticket Terms - discounts the statement 'All
> national railcards 34% discount. (Minimum fare of GBP 10.00 per adult
> ticket)'. I have confirmed this direct with Virgin Trains.
> Buyers beware!



Looking at tickets from Penzance to Cheltenham, I don't see any ticket
types other than 7 and 3 day Value tickets; the date's in question are
8 days away, explaining lack of 14 day Values.

Any idea if/when new discounts will be applied to VXC in my neck of the
woods?

Simon Reading wrote:


> which is all very well - except I have overpaid, as have many others I
> imagine, and getting a refund is not going to be easy.


I wouldn't overpay. I'd just visit my nearest staffed station and pay 
the correct price.

-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

Neil Williams wrote:


>>According to Barry Doe, Rail Mag's Fare Dealer, Virgin has separate cheap 
>>ticket quotas per train for 'full fare' passengers and railcard holders. His 
>>article on page 53 of the current issue is worth a read. 
> 
> Interesting, as that could mean that the matrix doesn't offer the
> cheapest ticket if a Railcard is entered and those quotas are booked
> up but not the non-Railcard ones.  The only workaround would appear to
> be to have a Railcard-only set of ticket types.


The separate quotas have been around for a while now and RJIS/NRS seems 
to have no problem booking the correct ticket. There is no need for a 
workaround.

-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:25:39 GMT, The Doctor
 wrote:


>The separate quotas have been around for a while now and RJIS/NRS seems 
>to have no problem booking the correct ticket. There is no need for a 
>workaround.


In RJIS?  No.  But if you're using Trainline or derivatives, you may
well have to do two separate queries, one with Railcard and one
without, to determine the best available fare.  That's not good
enough.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:


> In RJIS?  No.  But if you're using Trainline or derivatives, you may
> well have to do two separate queries, one with Railcard and one
> without, to determine the best available fare.  That's not good
> enough.


Then book it at a ticket office. Oh, but I imagine busy people like 
yourself simply have no time to visit such places.

:-)
-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:20:45 GMT, The Doctor wrote in
<1TgUe.349529$kM5.336273@fe01.news.easynews.com>, seen in uk.railway:

> Neil Williams wrote:
> 
> > In RJIS?  No.  But if you're using Trainline or derivatives, you may
> > well have to do two separate queries, one with Railcard and one
> > without, to determine the best available fare.  That's not good
> > enough.
> 
> Then book it at a ticket office. Oh, but I imagine busy people like 
> yourself simply have no time to visit such places.


Problem with ticket offices is that they tend not to be open at the
sort of time I'm planning journeys; there aren't many 24-hr ticket
offices outside the big cities. ;-)

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

Ross wrote:


> Problem with ticket offices is that they tend not to be open at the
> sort of time I'm planning journeys; there aren't many 24-hr ticket
> offices outside the big cities. ;-)


True, but the bigger stations are open earlier and later.

The punters who really wind me up are the ones who can't be bothered to 
book at the ticket office, buy a ticket from some telesales office and 
then expect me to sort out their bodged booking when it arrives.

Suddenly the ticket office is useful... grrr!

:-)
-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:20:45 GMT, The Doctor
 wrote:


>Then book it at a ticket office. 


Why should I?  Trainline claims to impartially show the best fares,
and usually it does.  The case is clear - either VT should merge the
quotas or split the ticket types - or Trainline should adapt like it
did for the singles.

Mind you I haven't tried it with the new ticket types yet - does
anyone know if it *does* show both types?  I don't think it would
based on the logic, but I suppose I could get a nice surprise :)


> Oh, but I imagine busy people like 
>yourself simply have no time to visit such places.
>
>:-)


I normally, and prefer to, buy my tickets from a FastTicket machine on
the day, and will do so more often with Trainline's credit card "tax".
That rather isn't the point, however.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:30:10 GMT, The Doctor wrote in
<C9nUe.296040$Jd.117093@fe11.news.easynews.com>, seen in uk.railway:

> Ross wrote:
> 
> > Problem with ticket offices is that they tend not to be open at the
> > sort of time I'm planning journeys; there aren't many 24-hr ticket
> > offices outside the big cities. ;-)
> 
> True, but the bigger stations are open earlier and later.


Later = "Doesn't close until after 19:00" in this part of the world,
which isn't much use when you're thinking about travel and planning
your journeys after midnight. Earlier = "opens whilst I'm asleep". ;-)

 

> The punters who really wind me up are the ones who can't be bothered to 
> book at the ticket office, buy a ticket from some telesales office and 
> then expect me to sort out their bodged booking when it arrives.


Having watched people queue at Lincoln Travel Centre for the best part
of an hour to be served, I can't say as I blame them for preferring to
make their bookings from the comfort of their own home.

And then when the booking turns out to be bodged, with insufficient
time for a replacement to be sent out, you can't blame them for
expecting to be able to sort the problem out at the station.

The punters really shouldn't have to be dealing with the contractual
matrix bollocks the railway chooses to inflict on them, any more than
you should have to be aware that the Ibis hotel you use in Aachen is
run by a different company to the one you use in Brussels. 



> Suddenly the ticket office is useful... grrr!
> :-)


That sort of customer service may be the reason ticket offices are
retained at stations rather than simply replacing them with machines
outside the busiest times; don't knock it (and yes, I did see the
smiley!).

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:30:10 GMT, The Doctor
 wrote:


>The punters who really wind me up are the ones who can't be bothered to 
>book at the ticket office, buy a ticket from some telesales office and 
>then expect me to sort out their bodged booking when it arrives.


While I understand you may be limited in what you can do, and
therefore it may be frustrating, I don't see why expecting the
railway[1] to sort out its own mess at any of its sales points is in
any way unreasonable.  If you find this as a concept[2] annoying,
that's a bit sad.

And, anyhow, it's not that people "can't be bothered to" book at a
ticket office.  They are choosing the appropriate sales point for
their needs.  It is not unreasonable to expect them to pick whichever
is more convenient!

The other thing it says, of course, is that call centres, whether
located in India, Europe, America, or the UK, are not a good solution
to customer services if they only work from a script.  This, as many
have posted in here, is one of the troubles with Trainline.

[1] I think the punters still consider it as largely one organisation,
even though it is made up of many disparate parts.

[2] I say "this as a concept", because obviously if said passengers
are being abusive or unpleasant they are in the wrong.  However,
making a well-worded complaint about an unacceptable situation is not
unreasonable, IMO.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:05:43 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:


>On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:30:10 GMT, The Doctor
> wrote:
>
>>The punters who really wind me up are the ones who can't be bothered to 
>>book at the ticket office, buy a ticket from some telesales office and 
>>then expect me to sort out their bodged booking when it arrives.
>
>While I understand you may be limited in what you can do, and
>therefore it may be frustrating, I don't see why expecting the
>railway[1] to sort out its own mess at any of its sales points is in
>any way unreasonable.  If you find this as a concept[2] annoying,
>that's a bit sad.


Unfortunately for Ticket Office staff "it don't work like that no more".
The days when you could correct a Telesales cockup by issuing the
necessary tickets and sending the offending company a Transfer Voucher
for the amount are long gone.

The "solution" these days is to advise the passenger to buy new tickets,
return the whole lot to the offending office upon the completion of
their journey for a refund of the difference between what they've paid
and what they needed to pay, and give them a Complaints Form, as even
though it's not your TOC's fault, you'll still get the blame...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

In message , at 01:34:33 on 
Sat, 10 Sep 2005, Barry Salter  
remarked:

>The "solution" these days is to advise the passenger to buy new tickets,
>return the whole lot to the offending office upon the completion of
>their journey for a refund of the difference between what they've paid
>and what they needed to pay, and give them a Complaints Form, as even
>though it's not your TOC's fault, you'll still get the blame...


When I've booked my tickets on the MML website, and the MML people at 
the station say it's "nothing to do with them" (when refusing to sort 
out a problem caused by the online booking system), I do feel that there 
is a certain amount of buck-passing going on!
-- 
Roland Perry

The Doctor wrote:

> Neil Williams wrote:
> 
>> In RJIS?  No.  But if you're using Trainline or derivatives, you may
>> well have to do two separate queries, one with Railcard and one
>> without, to determine the best available fare.  That's not good
>> enough.
> 
> 
> Then book it at a ticket office. Oh, but I imagine busy people like 
> yourself simply have no time to visit such places.


Of course, ticket offices are never open when you need them. The ticket 
office at Canterbury West was closed at 4pm the other day because there 
wasn't any staff. How am I meant to buy a ticket in that case?

Oh, and then the staff are unhelpful, rude and in some cases 
incompetent: as it takes so long to issue an advance purchase ticket, 
they won't even sell you one in the mornings.

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:28:06 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:


>When I've booked my tickets on the MML website, and the MML people at 
>the station say it's "nothing to do with them" (when refusing to sort 
>out a problem caused by the online booking system), I do feel that there 
>is a certain amount of buck-passing going on!


Perhaps, but the online booking system is operated by Trainline.com, not
by the TOC, so only Trainline.com can correct any errors.

And if the TOC tries to be proactive in dealing with it, chances are
that the member of staff will be on the phone for at least 20 minutes
trying to get it sorted out, and still won't get authorisation to issue
the correct tickets and bill Trainline for them. I know this from bitter
experience...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:30:10 GMT, The Doctor
 wrote:


>The punters who really wind me up are the ones who can't be bothered to 
>book at the ticket office, buy a ticket from some telesales office and 
>then expect me to sort out their bodged booking when it arrives.


At the same time, the biggest problem I found in my 3 years at St
Pancras was the number of ex-Southern Region ticket offices issuing
Savers and SuperSavers for travel during peak times...And it wasn't just
small stations, we had such gaffes from Victoria and East Croydon too...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

Barry Salter  wrote:


>At the same time, the biggest problem I found in my 3 years at St
>Pancras was the number of ex-Southern Region ticket offices issuing
>Savers and SuperSavers for travel during peak times...And it wasn't just
>small stations, we had such gaffes from Victoria and East Croydon too...


I've had the reverse; a refusal to sell me a saver from a North London station
because "a saver is an off-peak ticket and you can't use off-peak tickets
until 9:30"

No amount of pointing out that the restrictions apply to the "intercity"
service leaving London and not on the local journey, or asking them to
phone for help did any good. And this was after waiting for everyone else
in the queue to be served so I wasn't slowing anyone down.

It's not as if a saver is a particularly obscure ticket type...

Adam

In message , at 15:02:47 on 
Sat, 10 Sep 2005, Barry Salter  
remarked:

>On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:28:06 +0100, Roland Perry 
>wrote:
>
>>When I've booked my tickets on the MML website, and the MML people at
>>the station say it's "nothing to do with them" (when refusing to sort
>>out a problem caused by the online booking system), I do feel that there
>>is a certain amount of buck-passing going on!
>
>Perhaps, but the online booking system is operated by Trainline.com, not
>by the TOC, so only Trainline.com can correct any errors.


Would you say that if booking system runs on Windows NT, therefore only 
Microsoft can correct any errors :-(

The MML booking site is 100% MML branded. Only we enthusiasts have any 
idea that the engine underneath is a branded Trainline.com ; even the 
confirmation emails come from MML!

from: salessupport@midlandmainline.trainsfares.co.uk

"Thank you for buying your train tickets with Midland Mainline. "

And so on.


>And if the TOC tries to be proactive in dealing with it, chances are
>that the member of staff will be on the phone for at least 20 minutes
>trying to get it sorted out, and still won't get authorisation to issue
>the correct tickets and bill Trainline for them. I know this from bitter
>experience...


I've had two attempts, one failed miserably (the girl sending me away 
saying it was all Virgin's fault - I assume she thinks it would help if 
I was made to think know Virgin owns the entire MML booking system) and 
the other worked OK, thanks to the efforts of the staff - and yes, it 
did take 20 minutes).

But as a regular customer, all the evidence suggests it's a booking with 
MML, and that any failure of an MML office to be able to sort out a 
problem is merely internal communications gone very horribly wrong.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:02:47 +0100, Barry Salter
 wrote:


>On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:28:06 +0100, Roland Perry 
>wrote:
>
>>When I've booked my tickets on the MML website, and the MML people at 
>>the station say it's "nothing to do with them" (when refusing to sort 
>>out a problem caused by the online booking system), I do feel that there 
>>is a certain amount of buck-passing going on!
>
>Perhaps, but the online booking system is operated by Trainline.com, not
>by the TOC, so only Trainline.com can correct any errors.


To be simplistic, if I book tickets via the MML website then I expect
MML to be able to sort out any problems - they are the body with whom
I have a contract.   That they choose to subcontract Trainline to
operate their booking system should be irrelevant.    I notice that
Midland Mainline is the name used in the terms and conditions and that
the contact Email and postal addresses are theirs.    
-- 
Peter Lawrence

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Ross wrote:


> Problem with ticket offices is that they tend not to be open at the
> sort of time I'm planning journeys; there aren't many 24-hr ticket
> offices outside the big cities. ;-)


Yes, I grudge having to buy a ticket to get to a decent ticket office 
to buy a ticket...

Barry Salter wrote:


> 
> The "solution" these days is to advise the passenger to buy new tickets,
> return the whole lot to the offending office upon the completion of
> their journey for a refund of the difference between what they've paid
> and what they needed to pay, and give them a Complaints Form, as even
> though it's not your TOC's fault, you'll still get the blame...
> 


In what way is it 'not your TOC's fault' if the journey begins at your
station the Telesales Office was acting as 'authorised person' for your 
TOC. It is certainly not the passengers fault for 'not having bothered
to use the Ticket office.' If a telesales service is available people 
will use it. (not me though: I hate telephones.)

Why should I have to buy new tickets if I have been overcharged?
Why should I not travel on the tickets I have and then claim
a refund?

Charlie

In message <mxYUe.14435$VB1.6009@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, at 16:01:22 on 
Sun, 11 Sep 2005, Charlie Hulme  remarked:

>Why should I have to buy new tickets if I have been overcharged?
>Why should I not travel on the tickets I have and then claim
>a refund?


Good questions. The "solution", on the one occasion that my local MML 
office would even attempt to sort things out, was to buy new tickets and 
then claim a refund from the online people (who are fiercely disguised 
as MML, see earlier remarks). Luckily, the tickets I wanted were still 
available second time around.

[The problem was that the Fastticket machine wouldn't accept my magic 
code to pick the tickets up].
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:07:01 +0100, Alan J. Flavell wrote in
, seen in
uk.railway:

> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Ross wrote:
> 
> > Problem with ticket offices is that they tend not to be open at the
> > sort of time I'm planning journeys; there aren't many 24-hr ticket
> > offices outside the big cities. ;-)
> 
> Yes, I grudge having to buy a ticket to get to a decent ticket office 
> to buy a ticket...  


<mode:reminisce>
Many moons ago I was working the Stourbridge Town car one afternoon.
The Town ticket office had closed and I came across a rather worried
woman who wanted to buy some rather expensive long-distance tickets
for some days in the future. 

So, naturally, I suggested that if she wanted and if she wasn't in too
much of a rush I could issue them and maybe she'd like to come for a
ride to the Junction and back whilst I calculated the fares and played
with the SPORTIS. She did, I issued the tickets and relieved her of a
couple of hundred pounds in return, which made my commission for the
week look significantly healthier than it otherwise would. (That dates
it - a Central guard getting commission!).

On return to the Town I then had to force her to put her purse away as
she was adamant that she should pay for the return trip she'd just
made to the Junction whilst buying her tickets...
</mode>

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots

The Doctor wrote:


> Then book it at a ticket office. Oh, but I imagine busy people like 
> yourself simply have no time to visit such places.
> 
> :-)


Smiley noted, but...

It depends where you live and work. For some people, and I'm thinking
particularly of holders of Senior and Disabled railcards here more
than YP, it may not be practical to get to a station very often, and
so having to make a special trip to buy a ticket - when it ought to be
easy to buy online - strikes me as a waste of everyone's time and
effort.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________